Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN www.BenMattlin.com www.MiracleBoyGrowsUp.com
Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
Nice job, Ben. It's scary to me that the better dead than disabled viewpoint still exists. Sigh. Don. On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:28 AM, lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com wrote: Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN www.BenMattlin.com www.MiracleBoyGrowsUp.com
RE: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
Thanks, y'all. You guys put me onto this story in the first place-a tough one to get a clear take on, frankly. So many points of view, all valid. Keep on keepin' on! Ben __ BEN MATTLIN www.BenMattlin.com www.MiracleBoyGrowsUp.com From: Don Price [mailto:donpric...@yahoo.com] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 9:38 AM To: lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Nice job, Ben. It's scary to me that the better dead than disabled viewpoint still exists. Sigh. Don. On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:28 AM, lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com wrote: Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN www.BenMattlin.com http://www.benmattlin.com/ www.MiracleBoyGrowsUp.com http://www.miracleboygrowsup.com/
Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
Sure we all want to live and enjoy life even as a quad, but what if family does not care enough to sacrifice being a caregiver-- or with healthcare costs getting out of hand the person does not qualify for paid caregiver help??? Although I do believe many of us have as much right to life as the murderers and hard core criminals in our prisons that cost our government billions of dollars for their care each and every year. (do any of you agree or have thoughts on this??) Dan H*** From: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com To: lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Nice job, Ben. It's scary to me that the better dead than disabled viewpoint still exists. Sigh. Don. On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:28 AM, lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com wrote: Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN http://www.benmattlin.com/ http://www.miracleboygrowsup.com/
Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
Im going to write a big story about just what your talking about Dan. What about the quads that don't have 4 sisters to take care of them around the clock. Nobody to fly with them on trips to play rugby or let alone make them a decent meal. What about the guy that was refused help at voc rehab because he was deemed to be a bad risk. We all want the best but sadly few many people are left out, trying to find a meal and someone to do a bowell routine a couple times a week, maybe a shower once a week. Who can get someone do do an every day bowell routine, lol. Im going to write a nice story about several quads I know and how their lives have varied. Ron From: Danny Hearn ddh...@sbcglobal.net To: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com; lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Sure we all want to live and enjoy life even as a quad, but what if family does not care enough to sacrifice being a caregiver-- or with healthcare costs getting out of hand the person does not qualify for paid caregiver help??? Although I do believe many of us have as much right to life as the murderers and hard core criminals in our prisons that cost our government billions of dollars for their care each and every year. (do any of you agree or have thoughts on this??) Dan H*** From: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com To: lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Nice job, Ben. It's scary to me that the better dead than disabled viewpoint still exists. Sigh. Don. On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:28 AM, lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com wrote: Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN http://www.benmattlin.com/ http://www.miracleboygrowsup.com/
Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
That sounds like a great idea Ron, let us know when you get it completed, it is a very good subject and could perhaps even be a book? thanks. Dan ** From: RONALD L PRACHT r.pra...@sbcglobal.net To: quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 1:46 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Im going to write a big story about just what your talking about Dan. What about the quads that don't have 4 sisters to take care of them around the clock. Nobody to fly with them on trips to play rugby or let alone make them a decent meal. What about the guy that was refused help at voc rehab because he was deemed to be a bad risk. We all want the best but sadly few many people are left out, trying to find a meal and someone to do a bowell routine a couple times a week, maybe a shower once a week. Who can get someone do do an every day bowell routine, lol. Im going to write a nice story about several quads I know and how their lives have varied. Ron From: Danny Hearn ddh...@sbcglobal.net To: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com; lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 12:57 PM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Sure we all want to live and enjoy life even as a quad, but what if family does not care enough to sacrifice being a caregiver-- or with healthcare costs getting out of hand the person does not qualify for paid caregiver help??? Although I do believe many of us have as much right to life as the murderers and hard core criminals in our prisons that cost our government billions of dollars for their care each and every year. (do any of you agree or have thoughts on this??) Dan H*** From: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com To: lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com; quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Monday, November 18, 2013 11:38 AM Subject: Re: Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Nice job, Ben. It's scary to me that the better dead than disabled viewpoint still exists. Sigh. Don. On Monday, November 18, 2013 7:28 AM, lwillis...@yahoo.com lwillis...@yahoo.com wrote: Excellent article, Ben. Thought provoking and well-written. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 17, 2013 at 8:56:10 PM EST To: bmatt...@earthlink.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story Thanks Ben. Suicides, DNR's and a contributing livestyle always seem to bother me. But in the end, its a choice. their choice. And some make mistakes. Thanks Again. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 3:23:43 P.M. Central Standard Time, bmatt...@earthlink.net writes: For what it's worth, I was asked to contribute a blog about this story, which you can find here: http://www.agingwithdignity.org/mattlin.php __ BEN MATTLIN http://www.benmattlin.com/ http://www.miracleboygrowsup.com/
Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
A beautiful analogy perfectly stated. I might also add John Milton's famous line after he went blind. They also serve who only stand and wait. The fruit takes many forms, sometimes beyond our comprehension. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: wheelch...@aol.com Date: November 16, 2013 at 6:24:08 PM EST To: jlu...@eskimo.com, donpric...@yahoo.com Cc: bobbiehumphre...@gmail.com, r.pra...@sbcglobal.net, quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story I've mentioned this before and it bears repeating. We had a mulberry tree in our back yard. It was struck by lightening of a nasty winter storm. The end results was that it laid on the ground, cut in half and propped up by its long branches. It looked like a tree fence as it laid on our grassy yard. Spring came the next year and the tree produced leaves and huge crop of sweet mulberries that were enjoyed by all. All summer long I would cut the grass, going around the tree as it laid, still green. Fall and Winter came and the tree stayed, waiting for Spring again. Keep in mind that the trunk of the tree was split in half, exposing the inside of the tree and yet in spite of all the damage it continued to live, and produce edible fruit. The next spring, it blossomed again and produced another huge crop of mulberries, even thou the damage to the trunk worsened. It continued to produce another and another crop of mulberries and probably would have continued to produce mulberries until our neighbor received a gas chainsaw and decided to practice on our tree, thinking that he was doing us a favor. I feel the same could be said about someone being spinal cord injured and deciding on their fate of being productive, once again. Just as our mulberry tree was hanging on by a mere thread and continued to produce, so can those with major, complete injuries. Ed Roberts, Judith Hulman, and Justin Dart to name a few. Hospitals normally keep patient information private, so I'm always concern when reading stories like this as being totally factual. Best Wishes In a message dated 11/16/2013 1:00:55 P.M. Central Standard Time, jlu...@eskimo.com writes: When I first read the story my first reaction was well at least they gave him the chance to decide for himself. After all, if he had a living will and said he did not want to be put on life support and they did then that would have been against his predetermined wishes. Didn't his sister the nurse said that he had said that to her? I guess he didn't have anything in writing. After reading the comments people posted here about being on medication and not being able to make a clear decision I had not thought of that. I thought back to when I was first in the hospital paralyzed. I was in so much pain (nerve pain) that I just wanted to die so the pain would end. The morphine and the pain cocktail helped. I never thought or what I would or would not be able to do not being able to move. I don't remember ever thinking of turning the ventilator off.
Fwd: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story
It never occurred to me to pull the plug even though I had pneumonia, nightmares, and a half-dozen other killer maladies. I was fed story after story of people who had recovered from SCI. This kept me optimistic. I was Miserable as hell, but convinced I would recover in time. If I had known with certainty what the future held, I am not sure what I would have done. If I were being injured today at my age 61, I would have to think long and hard about what to do. Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Sent from my iPad Begin forwarded message: Resent-From: quad-list@eskimo.com From: Jim Lubin jlu...@eskimo.com Date: November 16, 2013 at 1:52:55 PM EST To: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com Cc: Gmail bobbiehumphre...@gmail.com, RONALD L PRACHT r.pra...@sbcglobal.net, quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Subject: Re: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story When I first read the story my first reaction was well at least they gave him the chance to decide for himself. After all, if he had a living will and said he did not want to be put on life support and they did then that would have been against his predetermined wishes. Didn't his sister the nurse said that he had said that to her? I guess he didn't have anything in writing. After reading the comments people posted here about being on medication and not being able to make a clear decision I had not thought of that. I thought back to when I was first in the hospital paralyzed. I was in so much pain (nerve pain) that I just wanted to die so the pain would end. The morphine and the pain cocktail helped. I never thought or what I would or would not be able to do not being able to move. I don't remember ever thinking of turning the ventilator off. On Wed, Nov 13, 2013 at 12:00 PM, Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com wrote: Just read a letter Paul Tobin, President of United Spinal Association (and quad) wrote regarding this very issue. Here is part of it: What a life I would have missed if I had been asked to end it all at the wrong time. I hope that I am not minimizing the pain and suffering that the Bowers family feels, or adding to their grief. That is truly not my intention. I do however question a medical community that looked upon, and reinforced the notion that Mr. Bowers was broken and unrepairable. With today’s technologies and advances, Mr. Bowers may have been able to breathe without the need for a ventilator and be independent once again. The truth is that we’ll never know because a grieving family and medical team asked a frightened man to make a decision when he was at his most vulnerable state, without the benefit of time and counseling that would be provided to almost any other patient. We counsel suicidal people and people with life-threatening illnesses. We fight for the rights of unborn children. We’ll rally to the call for an animal that needs surgery. But if you’re paralyzed and won’t be able to walk or breathe on your own, watch out. At the most vulnerable time in your life, your doctor may ask you if he or she can throw the switch. Paul J. Tobin President CEO United Spinal Association http://www.spinalcord.org/giving-my-uninformed-consent-to-die/?utm_source=UnitedNewsletterListutm_medium=emailutm_campaign=Newsletter+2013+11 On Tuesday, November 12, 2013 3:16 PM, Gmail bobbiehumphre...@gmail.com wrote: I've been thinking about the guy in the Deer Hunter story. I remember very well when I was in intensive care and my doctor came in with a young 18 Year old boy (I was 17) who was going to be going to school for physical therapy. I distinctly really remember my doctor saying ... Ken I'd like you to meet Bobbie, she just came in the other day. Isn't she pretty? I'd like you to stretch her heel cords each day. Now what if this doctor decided my life was not worth living and did not give me any life-support? Instead he make me feel good about myself, Ken and I ended up dating for one year. He was the best medicine I ever had. Bobbie Smile Everyday On Nov 12, 2013, at 3:48 PM, RONALD L PRACHT r.pra...@sbcglobal.net wrote: It makes most of us angry.because with the right drugs, docs and set of cicumstances it could have been any of us. Similar to an aborted child. this man never had a chance. Ron From: Don Price donpric...@yahoo.com To: quad-list@eskimo.com quad-list@eskimo.com Sent: Tuesday, November 12, 2013 12:44 PM Subject: [QUAD-L] That Deer Hunter Story I didn't reply to the earlier thread about the injured deer hunter who chose to have his breathing tube removed; in fact, I was so upset I deleted the whole discussion. After thinking about it for a while I am still extremely emotional, going between empathy and rage. I felt I had to reply, if only for my own relief through venting. While we don't know every detail of the story, I still feel STRONGLY that allowing this man
