Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running
Hi,
Thank you for all your answer.
So in fact Jochen, even if I need for some reason to handle dynamic
change on ntp.conf, you are telling me that it is cleaner and better
to restart the daemon ?
I am currently putting some modification in my ntp conf file thanks to
tr69 protocols. Moreover due to security constraints it is very hard
for me to restart the ntp daemon.. It is quite strange that noone try
to patch ntp daemon to handle runtime modification on ntp conf.
I also tried to use confi-from-file feature from ntpq without success.
I add a ntp url in my ntp conf and run ntpq -c config-from-file
/etc/ntp.conf. Then I am not able to see my new ntp url by running
ntpq -p command.
If I am able to create a clean patch to handle runtime modification I
will be happy to share it.
Regards,
Arthur.
2014-04-09 5:34 GMT+02:00 E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to
the BlackLists Null@blacklist.anitech-systems.invalid:
On 4/8/2014 2:49 PM, William Unruh wrote:
On 2014-04-08, Arthur Lambert wrote:
-|-|-|-|-|-|
I am currently using ntpd for my project.
My need is to be able to use new ntp url when I put a
new url in ntp.conf even if the ntp daemon is already running.
Currently, I need to kill and reboot ntpd to be able to
use the new ntp url set in my configuration file.
i guess that my solution right now is to start ntpd in a
hat process to be able to restart it if I detect a change
in ntp conf file.
Do I have really to restart ntpd to see new ntp url ?
I tried to check option on ntpd to find a way to handle
this case but I am not able to see this feature in the
current implementation of ntpd
You would likely need to use a fairly bleeding edge Dev Release.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/
http://archive.ntp.org/ntp4/ntp-dev/
e.g. Development 4.2.7p439 2014/04/03
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.2.7p439.tar.gz
http://archive.ntp.org/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.2.7p439.tar.gz
I believe you can tell ntpd anthing that ntp.conf would by using ntpq.
:config
I do not believe that there is a way of telling it to reread the .conf
file.
config-from-file filename
I haven't tried either (yet).
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/ntpq.html
or e.g. {In the case of the dev ver I last downloaded}
ntp-dev-4.2.7p418/html/ntpq.html See: Control-Message-Commands
ntp-dev-4.2.7p418/ntpq/ntpq.html#Control-Message-Commands
--
E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com
will be added to the BlackLists.
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
--
- Arthur LAMBERT
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running
Arthur Lambert wrote:
Hi,
Thank you for all your answer.
So in fact Jochen, even if I need for some reason to handle dynamic
change on ntp.conf, you are telling me that it is cleaner and better
to restart the daemon ?
I am currently putting some modification in my ntp conf file thanks to
tr69 protocols. Moreover due to security constraints it is very hard
for me to restart the ntp daemon.. It is quite strange that noone try
to patch ntp daemon to handle runtime modification on ntp conf.
I also tried to use confi-from-file feature from ntpq without success.
I add a ntp url in my ntp conf and run ntpq -c config-from-file
/etc/ntp.conf. Then I am not able to see my new ntp url by running
ntpq -p command.
Hi
I've just tried adding an extra server using config-from-file
(ntp-dev-4.2.7p439 NetBSD-6)
ntpq
config-from-file ntp.conf_add.2014040901
Sending configurstion file, one line at a time.
Keyid: 1
MD5 Password:
Line No: 1 Config Succeeded: server -4 xxx.x.xx.xx minpoll 8 maxpoll
10 iburst
Done sending file
ntpq quit
ntpq -p shows the added server
remote refid st tpoll reach delay offset jitter
+xxx.x.xx.xx x 2 u 193 256 7 22.334 2.349 0.113
David
If I am able to create a clean patch to handle runtime modification I
will be happy to share it.
Regards,
Arthur.
2014-04-09 5:34 GMT+02:00 E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to
the BlackLists Null@blacklist.anitech-systems.invalid:
On 4/8/2014 2:49 PM, William Unruh wrote:
On 2014-04-08, Arthur Lambert wrote:
-|-|-|-|-|-|
I am currently using ntpd for my project.
My need is to be able to use new ntp url when I put a
new url in ntp.conf even if the ntp daemon is already running.
Currently, I need to kill and reboot ntpd to be able to
use the new ntp url set in my configuration file.
i guess that my solution right now is to start ntpd in a
hat process to be able to restart it if I detect a change
in ntp conf file.
Do I have really to restart ntpd to see new ntp url ?
I tried to check option on ntpd to find a way to handle
this case but I am not able to see this feature in the
current implementation of ntpd
You would likely need to use a fairly bleeding edge Dev Release.
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/
http://archive.ntp.org/ntp4/ntp-dev/
e.g. Development 4.2.7p439 2014/04/03
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~ntp/ntp_spool/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.2.7p439.tar.gz
http://archive.ntp.org/ntp4/ntp-dev/ntp-dev-4.2.7p439.tar.gz
I believe you can tell ntpd anthing that ntp.conf would by using ntpq.
:config
I do not believe that there is a way of telling it to reread the .conf
file.
config-from-file filename
I haven't tried either (yet).
http://www.eecis.udel.edu/~mills/ntp/html/ntpq.html
or e.g. {In the case of the dev ver I last downloaded}
ntp-dev-4.2.7p418/html/ntpq.html See: Control-Message-Commands
ntp-dev-4.2.7p418/ntpq/ntpq.html#Control-Message-Commands
--
E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com
will be added to the BlackLists.
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running
David Lord sn...@lordynet.org wrote: Arthur Lambert wrote: Hi, Thank you for all your answer. So in fact Jochen, even if I need for some reason to handle dynamic change on ntp.conf, you are telling me that it is cleaner and better to restart the daemon ? I am currently putting some modification in my ntp conf file thanks to tr69 protocols. Moreover due to security constraints it is very hard for me to restart the ntp daemon.. It is quite strange that noone try to patch ntp daemon to handle runtime modification on ntp conf. I also tried to use confi-from-file feature from ntpq without success. I add a ntp url in my ntp conf and run ntpq -c config-from-file /etc/ntp.conf. Then I am not able to see my new ntp url by running ntpq -p command. Hi I've just tried adding an extra server using config-from-file (ntp-dev-4.2.7p439 NetBSD-6) ntpq config-from-file ntp.conf_add.2014040901 Sending configurstion file, one line at a time. Keyid: 1 MD5 Password: Line No: 1 Config Succeeded: server -4 xxx.x.xx.xx minpoll 8 maxpoll 10 iburst Done sending file ntpq quit ntpq -p shows the added server remote refid st tpoll reach delay offset jitter +xxx.x.xx.xx x 2 u 193 256 7 22.334 2.349 0.113 David Indeed it can be done that way. For Arthur: you need to modify the ntp.conf in case the system is rebooted outside your control (it will then use the values from ntp.conf) and at the same time use the above method to add the new server immediately. Then you do not need to restart ntpd and you can still change the config. OF COURSE ntpd should simply listen for SIGHUP and when it is received re-read the config file. Like almost all Unix daemons do. However, you will have a hard time convincing the group here, as you already found out. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running
Hi Rob, I know that my question can be stupid but I am not very familiar with open source project. If tomorrow someone decides to develop a feature on ntp. Who can decide if the feature will be integrated to the trunk of the project ? People have to convince the main guys of the projects ? So I will use the above method to handle my runtime modification. If I find free time to handle SIGHUP and if I am able to write a proper code to do it, I will share my changes in this topic. 2014-04-09 18:04 GMT+02:00 Rob nom...@example.com: David Lord sn...@lordynet.org wrote: Arthur Lambert wrote: Hi, Thank you for all your answer. So in fact Jochen, even if I need for some reason to handle dynamic change on ntp.conf, you are telling me that it is cleaner and better to restart the daemon ? I am currently putting some modification in my ntp conf file thanks to tr69 protocols. Moreover due to security constraints it is very hard for me to restart the ntp daemon.. It is quite strange that noone try to patch ntp daemon to handle runtime modification on ntp conf. I also tried to use confi-from-file feature from ntpq without success. I add a ntp url in my ntp conf and run ntpq -c config-from-file /etc/ntp.conf. Then I am not able to see my new ntp url by running ntpq -p command. Hi I've just tried adding an extra server using config-from-file (ntp-dev-4.2.7p439 NetBSD-6) ntpq config-from-file ntp.conf_add.2014040901 Sending configurstion file, one line at a time. Keyid: 1 MD5 Password: Line No: 1 Config Succeeded: server -4 xxx.x.xx.xx minpoll 8 maxpoll 10 iburst Done sending file ntpq quit ntpq -p shows the added server remote refid st tpoll reach delay offset jitter +xxx.x.xx.xx x 2 u 193 256 7 22.334 2.349 0.113 David Indeed it can be done that way. For Arthur: you need to modify the ntp.conf in case the system is rebooted outside your control (it will then use the values from ntp.conf) and at the same time use the above method to add the new server immediately. Then you do not need to restart ntpd and you can still change the config. OF COURSE ntpd should simply listen for SIGHUP and when it is received re-read the config file. Like almost all Unix daemons do. However, you will have a hard time convincing the group here, as you already found out. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions -- - Arthur LAMBERT ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Handle ntp conf modification when ntp is already running
Arthur Lambert lambertarthu...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Rob, I know that my question can be stupid but I am not very familiar with open source project. If tomorrow someone decides to develop a feature on ntp. Who can decide if the feature will be integrated to the trunk of the project ? People have to convince the main guys of the projects ? It depends on the actual project at hand, but usually there are some core developers who decide what patches will be accepted. When this would not be the case, the result would quickly be a big mess. Of course when you develop the software for your embedded device, you can always decide to solve the problem for yourself. When you put the patches (sources) somewhere on a website or mail them to anyone who asks, there is nothing that can go wrong. When you only use the binaries inside an organisation and not distribute them (either as software or embedded in a device you distribute) you don't even have to do that. So I will use the above method to handle my runtime modification. If I find free time to handle SIGHUP and if I am able to write a proper code to do it, I will share my changes in this topic. That would be very nice. However, don't be disappointed when somehow refuses to add them to the standard distributed version. I think many users would welcome them very much, but that does not mean the lead developers do. They often have very expressed opinions on things they did not come up with themselves. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Reasons of NTP not to use GPS source
On 2014-04-08, David Lord sn...@lordynet.org wrote: On another issue, please stop using google to send your usenet posts. I've never used google Sorry, it must have been the person you were replying to. Sorry to jump on you. I use nntpd? but I possibly don't clean up the posts I'm replying to, to your satisfaction :-) One should not have to clean up posts. David Google adds a blank line between every line you quote even if both are blank lines. This makes replies rapidly unreadable. Perhaps they remove them in delivering them to you as well so you never notice the absolute mess that google makes of your posts. David Andy Everett TimeTools GPS-Referenced NTP Servers http://www.timetoolsglobal.com/information/gps-ntp-network-sync-products/ ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Reasons of NTP not to use GPS source
On 2014-04-09, E-Mail Sent to this address will be added to the BlackLists Null@BlackList.Anitech-Systems.invalid wrote: On 4/8/2014 2:57 PM, William Unruh wrote: On 2014-04-08, a.everett@gmail.com wrote: Also, as previously mentioned, simply feeding a 3.3V or 5V pps output from a GPS receiver into a RS232 port will not work as the voltage levels are different. You will need a simple TTL logic to RS232 converter such as a MAX232 device to convert the PPS output signal to the correct voltage level. Actually false form most serial ports these days. While the standard says 5V the actuallity is that 3,3 V will trigger it on almost all serial ports. Ie, in general it is a non-issue. Note that the fact that serial and parallel ports and their interrupts are disappearing from almost all computer is probably a bigger problem. The current version is TIA/EIA-232-F (circa 1997, last updated 2002?) And this is irrelevant. The question is not what the standard says but what the serial ports actually handle. Again, does anyone know of a serial port which does NOT handle TTL logic imputs? BlockQuote Electrical Specification A logic 0 is represented by a driven voltage between 5 V and 15 V and a logic 1 of between ?5 V and ?15 V. At the receiving end, a voltage between 3 V and 15 V represents a 0 and a voltage of between ?3 V and ?15 V represents a 1. Voltages between ?3 V are undefined and lie in the transition region. This effectively gives a 2-V minimum noise margin at the receiver. /BlockQuote I've used some current TI (RS232-F speced), that don't switch if the voltage remains positive; However I have also used some current Maxium that switch at ~ 1.5 V. I haven't really seen this change much in the last two years, however I certainly could be missing out on some modern chipset's RS232 features. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
[ntp:questions] Has anyone thought about this?
In ntp_proto.c the delay and offset are computed as follows:
t34 = t3 - t4;
t21 - t2 - t1;
p_del = t21 - t34;
offset = (t21 - t3)/2.;
where t1 = client send time
t2 = server receive time
t3 = server send time
t4 = client receive time.
However, t1 and t4 are not really in seconds if the client clock is slewing.
That is, the
difference t4 - t1 will be shorter than seconds if the clock is being slowed
down
and larger if the clock is being sped up. Hence the clock slew may be a
source of
variation that is not presently being accounted for.
One some systems the frequency of the Performance Counter (PC) is constant
because it is driven by the High Performance Event Timer (HPET). And
according to one article on the Internet, the PC can be made to be driven
by the HPET on Win 8 by this edit: run cmd as admin and paste
'bcdedit /set {current} useplatformclock Yes'.
Would NTPD have less variation in offset and delay if, say, t4 were measured
by the difference in PC readings between the time t1 is measured and the
time T4 is presently measured?
Charles Elliott
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Has anyone thought about this?
By design, the clock servo tries to get the 0 crossing to occur at the time of
the subsequent poll. In my attempts to learn ntp servo operation over the
years from Dave Mills, I have yet to find a single area which he did not
consider. I may disagree at times with how he addressed the problem but I have
found his 40+ years of network synch to be pretty comprehensive :-)
-Original Message-
From: questions-bounces+greg.dowd=microsemi@lists.ntp.org
[mailto:questions-bounces+greg.dowd=microsemi@lists.ntp.org] On Behalf Of
Charles Elliott
Sent: Wednesday, April 09, 2014 4:31 PM
To: questions@lists.ntp.org
Subject: [ntp:questions] Has anyone thought about this?
In ntp_proto.c the delay and offset are computed as follows:
t34 = t3 - t4;
t21 - t2 - t1;
p_del = t21 - t34;
offset = (t21 - t3)/2.;
where t1 = client send time
t2 = server receive time
t3 = server send time
t4 = client receive time.
However, t1 and t4 are not really in seconds if the client clock is slewing.
That is, the
difference t4 - t1 will be shorter than seconds if the clock is being slowed
down
and larger if the clock is being sped up. Hence the clock slew may be a source
of
variation that is not presently being accounted for.
One some systems the frequency of the Performance Counter (PC) is constant
because it is driven by the High Performance Event Timer (HPET). And
according to one article on the Internet, the PC can be made to be driven
by the HPET on Win 8 by this edit: run cmd as admin and paste
'bcdedit /set {current} useplatformclock Yes'.
Would NTPD have less variation in offset and delay if, say, t4 were measured
by the difference in PC readings between the time t1 is measured and the
time T4 is presently measured?
Charles Elliott
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
___
questions mailing list
questions@lists.ntp.org
http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
Re: [ntp:questions] Reasons of NTP not to use GPS source
On 4/9/2014 3:01 PM, William Unruh wrote: BlackLists wrote: The current version is TIA/EIA-232-F (circa 1997, last updated 2002?) And this is irrelevant. The question is not what the standard says but what the serial ports actually handle. Again, does anyone know of a serial port which does NOT handle TTL logic imputs? Yes, I have several hundreds (if not thousands) that use a TI chip, that will not change the logic level, if the input does not go negative. -- E-Mail Sent to this address blackl...@anitech-systems.com will be added to the BlackLists. ___ questions mailing list questions@lists.ntp.org http://lists.ntp.org/listinfo/questions
