date:20231015

I caution selling a proven nice Ram to buy a speculative nice LB. The Ram
is a very nice handling sport-tourer (I use the term lightly, but from my
experience with a 2nd gen blue Ram it rode very nicely unladen and, with
stiff racks, handled modestly heavy loads with sufficient aplomb for a bike
that is principally meant as a road bike. The Ram, or at least my Ram,
exhibits that signature Grant handling quality: unerring straight line
stability with "intuitive" turn-in; not twitchy, not sluggish.

But yah pays yer money and yah makes yer choice.

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 8:13 PM Max Faingezicht 
wrote:

> Recently I’ve been getting low trail curious or more specifically I’ve
> become very interested in the Lightning Bolt canti frame from Crust
>
>
> I’ve read some reviews in the 650b and Bob groups, also read Jan’s review
> in BQ (thanks Eric!) and after speaking with a friend at the LBS who owns
> one I think it’s a worthy option. He said it’s the most fun bike he’s ever
> ridden and he’s got some nice rides to compare.
>
> Sadly the deal at home is that one has to go out (Ram or Gallop) to make
> room for a new bike. Anyone here has experience with both the LB and the
> Ram which would be the one to go?
>
> How would it compare with my orange Ram (the lightest of my builds with no
> racks and 33.33 tires)? I have a 60 Ram and would buy a large LB although I
> could straddle an XL for a more French fit.
>
> Im interested in hearing your impressions other than trail which I don’t
> want to get into a discussion about. What do you love/hate about the LB? Or
> about the Ram? I should also mention that I have quite a few options on the
> more burly side of things in my quiver: hunqa, bomba and more in the middle
> a wilbury. This is not a bike that I plan to use for carrying weight or to
> go single track riding. It’s mostly a road / pavement bike with the
> occasional gravel. I would use 42’s RH on it.
>
> The other alternative I could try is getting RH extra lights to replace my
> jack browns on the Ram to give it another shot and see if I can get a more
> spirited feel. So far, it’s been a great bike but even though I love it:
> feel, color, weight, setup… I don’t think it’s far enough from my Gallop or
> even my Wilbury to make it the go-fast, no racks bike for me.
>
> Thanks for your thoughts
>
> Max
>
>
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>


-- 
-
Patrick Moore
Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
-

Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
services.

-

*When thou didst not, savage,*

*Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*

*A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*

*With words that made them known.*

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Re: [RBW] Best way to arrange 2-cog manual shifting for "single speed" disc braked bicycle

Thanks, but I don't want that complication. I want (if I can get it) the
simplicity of my Riv customer gofast: QR rear hub, Dingle cog, long
horizontal dropouts. I don't necessarily need these means but I do want the
same end.

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:31 PM Eric Daume  wrote:

> The simplest solution is to also use two chainrings, matching the cog
> difference (for instance, with a 16/18 Dos freewheel, use 42 and 44t
> chainrings). Then the 44/16 and 42/18 have the same chain length, and the
> rotor to pad relationship doesn't change.
>
> Or just use a disc front and a rim brake rear, and a forward facing
> horizontal dropout (like typical UJBs have)
>
> Eric
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 6:12 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> Thinking out loud; help me clarify my thoughts.
>>
>> I think of devising a Monocog replacement, with 622X76/29X3" wheels, but
>> instead of a mono cog, with a duo cog. This hypothetical bike would have
>> disc brakes. I don't want to use a chain tensioner, and I prefer to take
>> advantage of the greater gear ratio differences between cogs of different
>> sizes compared to rings with the same tooth differences, and of the
>> consequent smaller axle movement required to adjust chain slack, so the
>> multiple cogs would be in the back and not on the crank.
>>
>> On my beloved 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road Custom fixie I use a 17/19 Dingle
>> on a Phil hub with a QR axle; it's very easy to stop, flip the QR lever,
>> move the chain, align the wheel, and tighten the QR.
>>
>> That's what I imagine for the Monocog replacement.
>>
>> 1. Disc brakes. But this bike would have disc brakes. I'd probably not
>> need more than a 2-t cog difference, but will your typical caliper/rotor
>> setup accept the 1/4" axle movement? (1/8" of axle movement is required --
>> so they say; I've never measured it and take it on faith -- to accomodate a
>> 1 tooth sprocket difference.)
>>
>> 2. Two cogs. How to get 2 cogs onto a suitable "ss" hub with a freewheel.
>> The DIngle isn't made anymore and in any event wasn't made -- am I right?
>> -- with 2-teeth gaps. The Monocog has a freehub designed to take 1 single
>> Shimano-spline-type cog; there's no room for a second cog. >>>What options
>> does one have to get 2 cogs with a 2-tooth difference onto a hub suitable
>> for a QR axle?
>>
>> I realize that I could just use an old 7 speed Shimano freehub, and I
>> might end up doing that, but I'd prefer to have a hub that does not require
>> a wide stack of spacers.
>>
>> 3. Axle type and dropouts/trackends/thru-axle holes. I know that long
>> forward-facing horizontal dropouts, a QR axle, and a hub with 2 cogs on 1
>> side allows very easy manual shifting, as this sort of shifting goes. I am
>> also pretty sure that a good builder can use 135 mm OL spacing and still
>> give me the stay clearance I need for true 3" tires, so I'm inclined to
>> stick with this very old-fashioned wheel attachment method.
>>
>> But if there are other wheel attachment methods that allow you to easily
>> move the chain from one cog to another, I'd be interested to learn about
>> them. Sliding dropouts?
>>
>> Are there any other things to consider ?
>>
>> Thanks, Patrick Moore, who had a nice ride to church and back today on a
>> pretty Fall day riding the Monocog with 72 mm tires and a single 65" gear
>> despite the bosque trail sand and the rear tire knobs occasionally
>> "whisping" on the chainstays (I fixed seatstay clearance with a hammer).
>> The Silca Impero with Campy head and the Road-style BB7s pulled by non-aero
>> DC levers are ironic but in fact work very well. When braking from the
>> hoods you simply pull from a bit lower down on the lever; and the Impero's
>> fat barrel moves lots of air fast into low pressure tires; 13 psi this
>> morning and it could have been lower.
>> --
>>
>> -
>> Patrick Moore
>> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>>
>> -
>>
>> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
>> services.
>>
>>
>> -
>>
>> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>>
>> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>>
>> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>>
>> *With words that made them known.*
>>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
>> To view this discussion on the web visit
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>>

[RBW] Considering trading my Ram for a Lightning Bolt

2023-10-15 Thread Max Faingezicht

Recently I’ve been getting low trail curious or more specifically I’ve become
very interested in the Lightning Bolt canti frame from Crust

I’ve read some reviews in the 650b and Bob groups, also read Jan’s review in BQ
(thanks Eric!) and after speaking with a friend at the LBS who owns one I think
it’s a worthy option. He said it’s the most fun bike he’s ever ridden and he’s
got some nice rides to compare.

Sadly the deal at home is that one has to go out (Ram or Gallop) to make room
for a new bike. Anyone here has experience with both the LB and the Ram which
would be the one to go?

How would it compare with my orange Ram (the lightest of my builds with no
racks and 33.33 tires)? I have a 60 Ram and would buy a large LB although I
could straddle an XL for a more French fit.

Im interested in hearing your impressions other than trail which I don’t want
to get into a discussion about. What do you love/hate about the LB? Or about
the Ram? I should also mention that I have quite a few options on the more
burly side of things in my quiver: hunqa, bomba and more in the middle a
wilbury. This is not a bike that I plan to use for carrying weight or to go
single track riding. It’s mostly a road / pavement bike with the occasional
gravel. I would use 42’s RH on it.

The other alternative I could try is getting RH extra lights to replace my jack
browns on the Ram to give it another shot and see if I can get a more spirited
feel. So far, it’s been a great bike but even though I love it: feel, color,
weight, setup… I don’t think it’s far enough from my Gallop or even my Wilbury
to make it the go-fast, no racks bike for me.

Thanks for your thoughts

Max

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RE: [RBW] FS- A lot of random stuff, Brompton, camping, tenkara,

2023-10-15 Thread Bernard Duhon

Nice Stash

what are the frame bag’s dimensions?
Are you in the US?
From: rbw-owners-bunch@googlegroups.com  On 
Behalf Of Drw
Sent: Sunday, October 15, 2023 3:56 PM
To: RBW Owners Bunch 
Subject: [RBW] FS- A lot of random stuff, Brompton, camping, tenkara,

Had this stuff kicking around the garage and need it gone. All prices do not 
include shipping. Pick up in Los angeles is totally welcome. Photos 
here.
Thanks for looking,
Drew

Yuba take off stuff- selling all together 65$ plus shipping
all came off of a 2023 yuba kombi and are essentially new. not the lightest or 
fanciest stuff, but clean and serviceable.
-handlebars with adjustable threadless stem and grips
-Crank with 42t chainring, bashguard and plastic pedals
-Saddle

Brompton take off stuff- selling all together for 150$ or a la carte below
all came off of a 2022 brompton and are essentially new
-M/H handlebars with brompton grips- 30$ plus shipping
-Brompton standard saddle- 20$ plus shipping
-Brompton rear rack with rear fender and ez wheels- 120$ plus shipping
-EZ wheel upgrade wheels. Bigger/wider and with bearings- 20$ plus shipping

Velo Orange happy stem. threadless, 90mm, 31.8, black. mounted but never used.- 
35$ plus shipping
Sunrace 9 speed cassette- 11-40t excellent condition-15$ plus shipping
31.8 seatpost clamp- free with any purchase
Microshift front derailler- bottom pull. comes with a 31.8 clamp but it is 
interchangeable- 15$ plus shipping
Gyes leather saddle- wide-ish- 20$ plus shipping
20 in tubes-1.75-2.125- 5 of them- 15$ plus shipping
Battery light and click bell- free with any purchase

Agu venture frame bag- unused- 20$ plus shipping
Dill pickle u-lock holder- free with any purchase

Thermarest sit pad- 15$ plus shipping
Six moon designs lunar solo shelter- seam sealed- used once in my backyard- 
200$ plus shipping (does not include stakes or trekking pole. 295$ new)
Reyr Tiny cast tenkara- Used a couple of times. comes with line, leader, sleeve 
and replacement tip section. integrated line holder. really awesome ultralight 
fishing setup. 100$ plus shipping
Stainless camping pan, plate and pot stand for alcohol stoves- free with any 
purchase

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

But I'm 68 ("and a half," as small children like to insist) ?

Patrick "thy youth shall be renewed like the eagle's" Moore

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 5:25 PM George Schick  wrote:

> Well Patrick, I can only say that I beckon back to a TV broadcast of a
> professional bowling tournament in the early 70's where one of the
> contestants was delivering the ball to the lane with his left leg ending up
> in a more or less vertical stance.  When the play-by-play announcer asked
> the "color announcer" (a former professional bowler) about that kind of
> delivery, the former professional bowler said, "...his youth allows him to
> get away with it..."  Sure enough, that bowler was never again seen on the
> bowling circuit again.
>
> And so it is with this pedaling and seat-back business under discussion
> here:  One's youth might allow one to get away with muscling into fast road
> riding, steep climbs, etc. at a strong rate, but it's not likely to last
> much into one's older years.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:09:32 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> One more remark. About 20 years ago when I was in my youthful late 40s I
>> happened across a retired man who'd set up a sort of casual bike museum
>> here in ABQ; can't remember his name or the location, but he had all sorts
>> of nice old school road bikes; was it he or was it Dick "Call me Mister"
>> Hallet of erstwhile local World Champion Bicycles who had an actual Reg
>> Harris track bike on display?
>>
>> At any rate, this man, probably then younger than I am now, but at least
>> early 60s, was a short, slight fellow; perfect spinner type, you'd say.
>> Nope, he had a 56T outer ring on his bike, IIRC, and when I remarked on it
>> he told us with enthusiasm that he liked torquing that monster over at low
>> r's pm.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 5:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders.
>>> Me, I *like* standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when
>>> climbing a local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for
>>> half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while
>>>  resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still
>>> prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a
>>> no-resistance gear.
>>>
>>> Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.
>>>
>>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:43 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>>
 It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's
 series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise
 has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical
 warfare" against another planet in their solar system:

-

Spock  : [after
hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There
is a certain scientific logic about it.

Anan 7  : I'm glad
you approve.

Spock  : I do
*not* approve. I *understand*.
-

Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method
of pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, 
 it's
like you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 
 4-story
walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
-

Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on
the grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a 
 smooth
back and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy 
 about
that!) moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake 
 lever
covers of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from 
 side
to side while climbing.
-

'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while
seated, spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume
they've been regulars at gym spin classes.

 On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding
 Ding! wrote:

> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any
> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of
> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift
> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race
> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders 
> behind
> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought
> about it.
>
> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow
> bike!! What a lucky woman is yours!!
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM,

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Garth

Leah, you feel "wobbly" because you're too far back relative to the bottom 
bracket. Hence, you "mash" because that position leaves you no choice. It's 
not "just your style", it's what that setup allows for. For fun, sit in a 
chair, extend your legs so that your calves are 90 degrees relative to your 
thighs. Now try mimicking pedaling, or try to stand up. You wobble trying 
to pedal and your strain to get up. Now scoot your feet towards you, say 45 
degrees, so you feel you can literally lift off out of the chair(and you 
can). It's no different than doing a squat, there is a sweet spot of 
balance and power in doing that. If you're too far back you cant use your 
muscles effectively as you're imbalanced. Bikes are no different in that 
way.

I wish you'd hop on someone's road bike and could experience what it's like 
being much more forward over the BB with a narrower saddle and having your 
hips unencumbered, that's really the best way to experience an "ahaa !" 
moment of getting it. It's a night and day difference from where you are. 
Actually I do think your Platy would fit you better with drop bars as once 
you're centered over the BB you'll have no problem dialing in the bar 
height and reach without resorting to extremes. 

In reference to George's comments, no flames here !  We're here to discuss 
stuff, you know ? 
Sitting and spinning uphill *effectively and efficiently*(regardless of the 
rpm's) for my experience is a matter of positioning and having the proper 
fitting of cranks that suit the rider. I've gone from being too far back 
and having to stand the whole time to get me over the BB, to being able to 
pedal seated the whole time by changing saddles and moving it forward by at 
30mm+ so far and going back to low positioned drop bars, about 2-1/2-3 
inches below saddle height. Sometimes I feel like a baby goat you see in 
those videos hoping up and down on the ground legs flailing because my legs 
are so free to literally bounce up and down with such ease. it really is 
marvelous. I can't believe I used to ride so far back and how inefficient 
it was. While yes I can spin on lesser grades now, on steeper grades the 
rpm's will slow, but still, even at a low rpm I'm doing it effectively and 
efficiently, unlike before being too far back. When I say efficient and 
effect, I mean that I can do repeated efforts and they don't wear me down 
like they formerly did during a ride. Day to day I never have any lingering 
soreness now either, even after very hilly rides that formerly wiped me out 
the next day. 

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:18:31 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind 
> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
> about it.
>
> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
> riding.
>
>
> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
> 2¢.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ok, I understand
>>
>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Leah, perhaps the Brooks on the Mermaid is setback 10mm more than the Rivet 
on the Raspberry.   However, the Raspberry seatpost SB is 42mm with 0 on 
the IRD scale corresponding to an actual 20mm.  The Mermaid has a 
'standard' looking seatpost, most likely with 20mm SB.  The 10mm in saddle 
position is only 25% of the 42mm in seatpost seatback.So you are still 
much further back on the Rapsberry than on the Mermaid.

A simple measurement could help determine if the setbacks are the same or 
different.   If the 2 bikes have the SAME stem length and bars and the bars 
are set to the same height, then measuring the distance from the center of 
the stem quill bolt to the back of the saddle (or to where your sit bones 
indention is) should reveal if both are setback the same or if there is a 
difference, it would quantify it.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 7:06:51 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I’m nearly sure Rivet Sonora is 10mm shorter rails than Brooks. I think 
> that could account for the difference.
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 7:03 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> Leah stated concerning her Mermaid Platy:  " This one has a Brooks. I 
> know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to 
> be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough 
> setback. "
>
>
> My Comment: Brooks B17s are notorious for their rails having a short 
> adjustment length.  I measured 2.1 to 3.0 cm depending on how much you 
> force the saddle fore and aft in the clamp.
>
> The Mermaid looks like a 'normal' setup form that type of frame.   There 
> seems to be more seatpost showing the=an on the Raspberry Platy.
>
> The Raspberry Platy seems more stretched out, which George has diagnosed 
> in his replies
>
> Leah, if you think the Billie bars on the Mermaid are different than the 
> Billie bars on the Raspberry., just place the 2 side by side, line up the 
> bars and visually compare the 2.  Any differences should be apparent.  If 
> NO differences are observed they are probably the same.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:40:42 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> I have the mermaid Platy:
>> [image: image0.jpeg]
>>
>> This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect 
>> to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer 
>> and allow for just enough setback. Either that or the Billie Bars are 
>> somehow not made to spec and don’t come back as far. That’s my layperson 
>> crumby understanding. But that bike fits great.
>>
>> The Clem:
>> [image: image1.jpeg]
>>
>> I rode it last night and decided I hate how it feels. Bars too close, too 
>> bolt upright. This is the fault of club riding where I now like leaning 
>> forward more. But I rarely ride this bike so it won’t get any new parts. 
>> Poor thing.
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 6:36 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
>> Bunch  wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> Curious if Leah has her other Rivendells set up the same way.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>>
>>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used 
>>> to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus 
>>> others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the 
>>> highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as 
>>> much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes 
>>> the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using 
>>> the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
>>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
>>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
>>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
>>> riding.
>>>
>>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
>>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
>>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
>>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
>>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
>>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
>>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
>>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
>>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
>>> 2¢.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>>> NJ wrote:
>>>
 Ok, I understand

 Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
 2.5cm.  This indicates the

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Well Patrick, I can only say that I beckon back to a TV broadcast of a 
professional bowling tournament in the early 70's where one of the 
contestants was delivering the ball to the lane with his left leg ending up 
in a more or less vertical stance.  When the play-by-play announcer asked 
the "color announcer" (a former professional bowler) about that kind of 
delivery, the former professional bowler said, "...his youth allows him to 
get away with it..."  Sure enough, that bowler was never again seen on the 
bowling circuit again.

And so it is with this pedaling and seat-back business under discussion 
here:  One's youth might allow one to get away with muscling into fast road 
riding, steep climbs, etc. at a strong rate, but it's not likely to last 
much into one's older years.

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:09:32 PM UTC-5 Patrick Moore wrote:

> One more remark. About 20 years ago when I was in my youthful late 40s I 
> happened across a retired man who'd set up a sort of casual bike museum 
> here in ABQ; can't remember his name or the location, but he had all sorts 
> of nice old school road bikes; was it he or was it Dick "Call me Mister" 
> Hallet of erstwhile local World Champion Bicycles who had an actual Reg 
> Harris track bike on display?
>
> At any rate, this man, probably then younger than I am now, but at least 
> early 60s, was a short, slight fellow; perfect spinner type, you'd say. 
> Nope, he had a 56T outer ring on his bike, IIRC, and when I remarked on it 
> he told us with enthusiasm that he liked torquing that monster over at low 
> r's pm.
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 5:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>
>> George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders. 
>> Me, I *like* standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when 
>> climbing a local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for 
>> half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while 
>>  resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still 
>> prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a 
>> no-resistance gear. 
>>
>> Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.
>>
>> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:43 PM George Schick  wrote:
>>
>>> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
>>> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
>>> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
>>> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>>>
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Spock  : [after 
>>>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There 
>>>is a certain scientific logic about it.
>>>
>>>Anan 7  : I'm glad 
>>>you approve.
>>>
>>>Spock  : I do *not* 
>>>approve. I *understand*.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method 
>>>of pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, 
>>> it's 
>>>like you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 
>>> 4-story 
>>>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on 
>>>the grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a 
>>> smooth 
>>>back and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy 
>>> about 
>>>that!) moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake 
>>> lever 
>>>covers of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from 
>>> side 
>>>to side while climbing.
>>>- 
>>>
>>>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
>>>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
>>>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
 other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
 control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
 to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
 up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders 
 behind 
 me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
 about it.

 Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
 What a lucky woman is yours!!

 On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:

 I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used 
 to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus 
 others in previous threads,

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Roberta


Beautiful.  She has basically. New bike. Love the cream head tube and the 
filled in hearts. 
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 4:52:57 PM UTC-4 Max S wrote:

> Before & after for my honey's bikie...  This Yves Gomez was advertised in 
> "as new" condition, which was a fine claim, except it turned out to not be 
> remotely true. All the components were heavily worn / unusable, and 
> everything associated with the drivetrain (and front wheel) had to be 
> replaced. I converted it into an easy 1x1 with a front basket. It got only 
> a few miles in that state, partly because the frame got gouged quite 
> severely in shipping. (Some of you may recall my quest for the "mustard 
> Clem" color code...) I sent the bike to Jack Trumbull of Franklin Frame for 
> repair and repaint, after which, I rebuilt it. Now it's been suped up with 
> a nice seat, grips, fancy crank, other nice components, custom Riv bags, 
> and metal fenders. 
>
> - Max 
>
> [image: Yves Gomez original ad.jpg][image: Yves Gomez green basket 
> driveside.jpg]
> [image: Yves Gomez repaint 1x9 fenders driveside.jpeg]
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

One more remark. About 20 years ago when I was in my youthful late 40s I
happened across a retired man who'd set up a sort of casual bike museum
here in ABQ; can't remember his name or the location, but he had all sorts
of nice old school road bikes; was it he or was it Dick "Call me Mister"
Hallet of erstwhile local World Champion Bicycles who had an actual Reg
Harris track bike on display?

At any rate, this man, probably then younger than I am now, but at least
early 60s, was a short, slight fellow; perfect spinner type, you'd say.
Nope, he had a 56T outer ring on his bike, IIRC, and when I remarked on it
he told us with enthusiasm that he liked torquing that monster over at low
r's pm.

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 5:03 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders.
> Me, I *like* standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when
> climbing a local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for
> half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while
>  resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still
> prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a
> no-resistance gear.
>
> Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.
>
> On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:43 PM George Schick  wrote:
>
>> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's
>> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise
>> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical
>> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>>
>>-
>>
>>Spock  : [after
>>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There
>>is a certain scientific logic about it.
>>
>>Anan 7  : I'm glad
>>you approve.
>>
>>Spock  : I do *not*
>>approve. I *understand*.
>>-
>>
>>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method
>>of pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's
>>like you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 
>> 4-story
>>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>>-
>>
>>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the
>>grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back
>>and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about 
>> that!)
>>moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers
>>of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side
>>while climbing.
>>-
>>
>>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated,
>>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've
>>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
>> wrote:
>>
>>> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any
>>> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of
>>> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift
>>> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race
>>> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind
>>> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought
>>> about it.
>>>
>>> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!!
>>> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>>
>>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used
>>> to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus
>>> others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the
>>> highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as
>>> much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes
>>> the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using
>>> the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to
>>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg
>>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her
>>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to
>>> riding.
>>>
>>>
>>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a
>>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more
>>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a
>>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to
>>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to
>>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the
>>> pace

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

I’m nearly sure Rivet Sonora is 10mm shorter rails than Brooks. I think that could account for the difference.Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 15, 2023, at 7:03 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Leah stated concerning her Mermaid Platy:  "

This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough setback. "My Comment: Brooks B17s are notorious for their rails having a short adjustment length.  I measured 2.1 to 3.0 cm depending on how much you force the saddle fore and aft in the clamp.The Mermaid looks like a 'normal' setup form that type of frame.   There seems to be more seatpost showing the=an on the Raspberry Platy.The Raspberry Platy seems more stretched out, which George has diagnosed in his repliesLeah, if you think the Billie bars on the Mermaid are different than the Billie bars on the Raspberry., just place the 2 side by side, line up the bars and visually compare the 2.  Any differences should be apparent.  If NO differences are observed they are probably the same.John HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:40:42 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:I have the mermaid Platy:This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough setback. Either that or the Billie Bars are somehow not made to spec and don’t come back as far. That’s my layperson crumby understanding. But that bike fits great.The Clem:I rode it last night and decided I hate how it feels. Bars too close, too bolt upright. This is the fault of club riding where I now like leaning forward more. But I rarely ride this bike so it won’t get any new parts. Poor thing.On Oct 15, 2023, at 6:36 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch  wrote:Curious if Leah has her other Rivendells set up the same way.John HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to riding.Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ wrote:
Ok, I understandMoving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is OK now.So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an Acceptable position..I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up on the Billie:'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba." So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant be felt..Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate the Billie bar is the common problem.RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as too short due t9 the bar sweep back.John

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

George: Physiologies and psychologies differ considerably among riders. Me,
I *like* standing and torquing up hills; I used to do this when climbing a
local 7-mile hill on a 70" or 75" fixed gear: stand for
half-a-mile-to-a-full-mile, sit for 30 seconds and strain your knees while
 resting your lungs, then repeat. Even now in my decripit old age, I still
prefer to torque at slow r's pm than to get breathless spinning a
no-resistance gear.

Neither is "better" for us recreational riders, as far as I can tell.

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:43 PM George Schick  wrote:

> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's
> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise
> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical
> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>
>-
>
>Spock  : [after
>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is
>a certain scientific logic about it.
>
>Anan 7  : I'm glad
>you approve.
>
>Spock  : I do *not*
>approve. I *understand*.
>-
>
>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of
>pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's like
>you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story
>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>-
>
>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the
>grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back
>and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about that!)
>moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers
>of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side
>while climbing.
>-
>
>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated,
>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've
>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding!
> wrote:
>
>> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any
>> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of
>> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift
>> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race
>> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind
>> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought
>> about it.
>>
>> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!!
>> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used
>> to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus
>> others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the
>> highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as
>> much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes
>> the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using
>> the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to
>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg
>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her
>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to
>> riding.
>>
>>
>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a
>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more
>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a
>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to
>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to
>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the
>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for
>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a
>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my
>> 2¢.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand
>>>
>>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about
>>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>>
>>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar
>>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but
>>> is OK now.
>>>
>>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to
>>> an Acceptable position..
>>>
>>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up
>>> on

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Leah stated concerning her Mermaid Platy:  " This one has a Brooks. I know 
it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect to me and I believe it to be 
because the Brooks rails are a little longer and allow for just enough 
setback. "

My Comment: Brooks B17s are notorious for their rails having a short 
adjustment length.  I measured 2.1 to 3.0 cm depending on how much you 
force the saddle fore and aft in the clamp.

The Mermaid looks like a 'normal' setup form that type of frame.   There 
seems to be more seatpost showing the=an on the Raspberry Platy.

The Raspberry Platy seems more stretched out, which George has diagnosed in 
his replies

Leah, if you think the Billie bars on the Mermaid are different than the 
Billie bars on the Raspberry., just place the 2 side by side, line up the 
bars and visually compare the 2.  Any differences should be apparent.  If 
NO differences are observed they are probably the same.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 6:40:42 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> I have the mermaid Platy:
> [image: image0.jpeg]
>
> This one has a Brooks. I know it sounds crazy but this bike feels perfect 
> to me and I believe it to be because the Brooks rails are a little longer 
> and allow for just enough setback. Either that or the Billie Bars are 
> somehow not made to spec and don’t come back as far. That’s my layperson 
> crumby understanding. But that bike fits great.
>
> The Clem:
> [image: image1.jpeg]
>
> I rode it last night and decided I hate how it feels. Bars too close, too 
> bolt upright. This is the fault of club riding where I now like leaning 
> forward more. But I rarely ride this bike so it won’t get any new parts. 
> Poor thing.
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 6:36 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> 
>
> Curious if Leah has her other Rivendells set up the same way.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>
>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
>> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
>> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
>> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
>> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
>> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
>> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
>> riding.
>>
>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
>> 2¢.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand
>>>
>>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>>
>>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
>>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but 
>>> is OK now.
>>>
>>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to 
>>> an Acceptable position..
>>>
>>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
>>> on the Billie:
>>> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>>>
>>>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
>>> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
>>> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of 
>>> where you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  
>>> A 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably 
>>> cant be felt..
>>>
>>> Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length 
>>> stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to 
>>> the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that 
>>> other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate 
>>> the Billie bar is the common problem.
>>>
>>>
>>> RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

I rarely agree with Leah (*) but I am one old-school rider who also likes
his saddle slammed back and his gears high, and I blame Grant. I used to be
a spinner -- would maintain 20-22 mph over distance in a 64" gear, back
when I was a pimpled 40-something -- until I started ordering bikes from
Rivendelll and complained that I felt as if I was "losing power at the top
of the pedal stroke," particularly when torquing up hills or into winds.
(There were also handling problems from my, then, habit of riding
seat-forward, bar-forward-and-down.) Grant said: Move bar up and back and
move saddle back and down, and so I did. Much better for climbing, but it
also made me into a masher, this probably helped by age.

On Riv frames with 73* stas, I used to use a rubber mallet to get my Flites
as far back on my favorite, fairly setback, DA 7410 seatposts.

I don't do this any longer -- I've moved my first edition Flites forward by
about 5 mm -- But I have to say, I have no desire to go back to that
forward riding position.

(*) Kidding, of course, and I daresay Leah could hardly care less. Saddle
position apart, Leah, that's a pretty bike, tho' I recommend grips to match
the saddle.

Patrick "over and out" Moore

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:
>
>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to
>> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others
>> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear
>> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in
>> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the
>> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the
>> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to
>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg
>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her
>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to
>> riding.
>>
>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a
>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more
>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a
>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to
>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to
>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the
>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for
>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a
>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my
>> 2¢.
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Also Leah, ever study the difference between slow twitch (weight work out) 
muscles vs. fast twitch (running, fast cadence) muscles during your medical 
education?  There's a big, big difference between the function of these two 
and their applicability to cycling.


On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:43:15 PM UTC-5 George Schick wrote:

> It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
> series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
> has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
> warfare" against another planet in their solar system:
>
>- 
>
>Spock  : [after 
>hearing Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is 
>a certain scientific logic about it.
>
>Anan 7  : I'm glad 
>you approve.
>
>Spock  : I do *not* 
>approve. I *understand*.
>- 
>
>Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of 
>pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's 
> like 
>you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story 
>walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
>- 
>
>Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the 
>grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back 
>and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about 
> that!) 
>moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers 
>of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side 
>while climbing.
>- 
>
>'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
>spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
>been regulars at gym spin classes.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
>> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
>> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
>> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
>> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind 
>> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
>> about it.
>>
>> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
>> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>>
>> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used 
>> to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus 
>> others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the 
>> highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as 
>> much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes 
>> the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using 
>> the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
>> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
>> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
>> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
>> riding.
>>
>>
>> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
>> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
>> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
>> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
>> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
>> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
>> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
>> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
>> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
>> 2¢.
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>>> Ok, I understand
>>>
>>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>>
>>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
>>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but 
>>> is OK now.
>>>
>>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to 
>>> an Acceptable position..
>>>
>>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
>>> on the Billie:
>>> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>>>
>>>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle

[RBW] Re: Ibex Full Zip Wool Coat

2023-10-15 Thread Dave Grossman

SOLD

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 3:55:34 PM UTC-5 Dave Grossman wrote:

>   I am on a jacket moratorium!
>
> Ibex full zip 100% wool 
> Made in USA
> Size Large 
> Pit to pit is 22"
>
> Its basically like an active fleece with slash zips and a zippered chest 
> pocket except it is some wool goodness
>
> Asking $90 shipped CONUS
>
> Pics here:  https://photos.app.goo.gl/fMcfpwnB6brxw2nZA
>
>

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[RBW] Re: Wool Sweater Box

2023-10-15 Thread Dave Grossman

SOLD

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 3:54:42 PM UTC-5 Dave Grossman wrote:

> I have 7 wool sweaters, all XL.  
>
> 3 v necks (Ralph Lauren and Merona are 100% wool, Benetton is 80/20)
> 4 crew necks (all Gap, Wool/Poly blend
>
> I was given a wool box a few years ago on here and I'd like to do the same.
>
> $50 shipped for all 7
>
> https://photos.app.goo.gl/CGfuSf6Lu1gnU7gYA
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

It kinda reminds me of a Star Trek episode in the first of the TV 60's 
series of the show entitled "A Taste of Armageddon" where the Enterprise 
has sent a landing party down to a planet that observes "theoretical 
warfare" against another planet in their solar system:

   - 
   
   Spock  : [after hearing 
   Anan 7 explain their system of computerized warfare]  There is a certain 
   scientific logic about it.
   
   Anan 7  : I'm glad you 
   approve.
   
   Spock  : I do *not* 
   approve. I *understand*.
   - 
   
   Ergo, I understand, but I do not necessarily approve of your method of 
   pedaling.  Seems to me like, when you have to stand up on a hill, it's like 
   you're carrying two heavy bags of groceries up the stairs to a 4-story 
   walk-up apartment, stomping on each step as you go, suffering.
   - 
   
   Whereas, those who ride road bikes with drop bars lean forward on the 
   grips of their handbrakes and stand on up on their pedals in a smooth back 
   and forth motion like "dancing" (I really like Garth's analogy about that!) 
   moving their body weight forward while gripping on the brake lever covers 
   of their drop bars so they can easily shift their weight from side to side 
   while climbing.
   - 
   
   'Course, there are also those who zoom up those slopes while seated, 
   spinning their pedals at very high cadences, but I always assume they've 
   been regulars at gym spin classes.
   
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:18:31 PM UTC-5 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any 
> other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of 
> control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift 
> to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race 
> up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind 
> me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought 
> about it.
>
> Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! 
> What a lucky woman is yours!!
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:
>
> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
> riding.
>
>
> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
> 2¢.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ok, I understand
>>
>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>
>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but 
>> is OK now.
>>
>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
>> Acceptable position..
>>
>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
>> on the Billie:
>> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>>
>>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
>> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
>> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where 
>> you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 
>> 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant 
>> be felt..
>>
>> Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length 
>> stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to 
>>

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Curious if Leah has her other Rivendells set up the same way.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 5:03:31 PM UTC-4 George Schick wrote:

> I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
> it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
> in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
> or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
> previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
> saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
> leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
> "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
> development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
> weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
> riding.
>
> Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
> diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
> closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
> cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
> maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
> ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
> pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
> whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
> problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
> 2¢.
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Ok, I understand
>>
>> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
>> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>>
>> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
>> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but 
>> is OK now.
>>
>> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
>> Acceptable position..
>>
>> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
>> on the Billie:
>> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>>
>>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
>> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
>> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where 
>> you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 
>> 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant 
>> be felt..
>>
>> Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length 
>> stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to 
>> the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that 
>> other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate 
>> the Billie bar is the common problem.
>>
>>
>> RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a 
>> sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as 
>> too short due t9 the bar sweep back.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>>
>>  
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 02:45:29 PM EDT, Roberta <
>> rcha...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>>
>>
>> Thanks, John.
>>
>> I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards 
>> the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  
>> the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to 
>> feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  
>>
>> I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
>> NJ wrote:
>>
>> Roberta
>>
>> Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle 
>> FORWARD the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is 
>> too long and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far 
>> forward, most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
>>
>> Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
>>  Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
>> opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
>> within the range of Brooks adjustability.
>>
>> But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>>
>> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
>> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
>> far as the rails could take it.  
>>
>> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
>> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a

Re: [RBW] Best way to arrange 2-cog manual shifting for "single speed" disc braked bicycle

2023-10-15 Thread Eric Daume

The simplest solution is to also use two chainrings, matching the cog
difference (for instance, with a 16/18 Dos freewheel, use 42 and 44t
chainrings). Then the 44/16 and 42/18 have the same chain length, and the
rotor to pad relationship doesn't change.

Or just use a disc front and a rim brake rear, and a forward facing
horizontal dropout (like typical UJBs have)

Eric

On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 6:12 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> Thinking out loud; help me clarify my thoughts.
>
> I think of devising a Monocog replacement, with 622X76/29X3" wheels, but
> instead of a mono cog, with a duo cog. This hypothetical bike would have
> disc brakes. I don't want to use a chain tensioner, and I prefer to take
> advantage of the greater gear ratio differences between cogs of different
> sizes compared to rings with the same tooth differences, and of the
> consequent smaller axle movement required to adjust chain slack, so the
> multiple cogs would be in the back and not on the crank.
>
> On my beloved 1999 Joe Starck Riv Road Custom fixie I use a 17/19 Dingle
> on a Phil hub with a QR axle; it's very easy to stop, flip the QR lever,
> move the chain, align the wheel, and tighten the QR.
>
> That's what I imagine for the Monocog replacement.
>
> 1. Disc brakes. But this bike would have disc brakes. I'd probably not
> need more than a 2-t cog difference, but will your typical caliper/rotor
> setup accept the 1/4" axle movement? (1/8" of axle movement is required --
> so they say; I've never measured it and take it on faith -- to accomodate a
> 1 tooth sprocket difference.)
>
> 2. Two cogs. How to get 2 cogs onto a suitable "ss" hub with a freewheel.
> The DIngle isn't made anymore and in any event wasn't made -- am I right?
> -- with 2-teeth gaps. The Monocog has a freehub designed to take 1 single
> Shimano-spline-type cog; there's no room for a second cog. >>>What options
> does one have to get 2 cogs with a 2-tooth difference onto a hub suitable
> for a QR axle?
>
> I realize that I could just use an old 7 speed Shimano freehub, and I
> might end up doing that, but I'd prefer to have a hub that does not require
> a wide stack of spacers.
>
> 3. Axle type and dropouts/trackends/thru-axle holes. I know that long
> forward-facing horizontal dropouts, a QR axle, and a hub with 2 cogs on 1
> side allows very easy manual shifting, as this sort of shifting goes. I am
> also pretty sure that a good builder can use 135 mm OL spacing and still
> give me the stay clearance I need for true 3" tires, so I'm inclined to
> stick with this very old-fashioned wheel attachment method.
>
> But if there are other wheel attachment methods that allow you to easily
> move the chain from one cog to another, I'd be interested to learn about
> them. Sliding dropouts?
>
> Are there any other things to consider ?
>
> Thanks, Patrick Moore, who had a nice ride to church and back today on a
> pretty Fall day riding the Monocog with 72 mm tires and a single 65" gear
> despite the bosque trail sand and the rear tire knobs occasionally
> "whisping" on the chainstays (I fixed seatstay clearance with a hammer).
> The Silca Impero with Campy head and the Road-style BB7s pulled by non-aero
> DC levers are ironic but in fact work very well. When braking from the
> hoods you simply pull from a bit lower down on the lever; and the Impero's
> fat barrel moves lots of air fast into low pressure tires; 13 psi this
> morning and it could have been lower.
> --
>
> -
> Patrick Moore
> Alburquerque, Nuevo Mexico, Etats Unis d'Amerique, Orbis Terrarum
>
> -
>
> Executive resumes, LinkedIn profiles, bios, letters, and other writing
> services.
>
>
> -
>
> *When thou didst not, savage,*
>
> *Know thine own meaning, but wouldst gabble like*
>
> *A thing most brutish, I endowed thy purposes*
>
> *With words that made them known.*
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "RBW Owners Bunch" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To view this discussion on the web visit
> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/rbw-owners-bunch/CALuTfgvSea80hxHZ7mMEUxzpaR551T6Q5%3DNLpAvr%2B0QOQ3rh6g%40mail.gmail.com
> 
> .
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

George, lol, that IS what I do. And I never knew there was really any other way! I dislike the feeling of spinning. It feels wobbly and out of control. So I don’t - I just leave it in the “hard” gear. BUT, I do shift to an easier one at stop signs now. My knees were killing me tryng to race up to speed from a dead stop and I didn’t want to hold up the riders behind me. But you are probably right about my riding style. Huh. I never thought about it.Max - hearts are coming out of my eyes looking at the yellow bike!! What a lucky woman is yours!!On Oct 15, 2023, at 5:03 PM, George Schick  wrote:I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to "stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to riding.Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 2¢.On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ wrote:
Ok, I understandMoving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is OK now.So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an Acceptable position..I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up on the Billie:'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba." So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant be felt..Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate the Billie bar is the common problem.RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as too short due t9 the bar sweep back.John HawrylakWoodstown NJ 





On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 02:45:29 PM EDT, Roberta  wrote:



Thanks, John.I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  I ended in a good position, so like you said "
then all is good in life."RobertaOn Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ wrote:RobertaPushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.   Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is within the range of Brooks adjustability.But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.John HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there

[RBW] Re: Best way to arrange 2-cog manual shifting for "single speed" disc braked bicycle

I mean, the *DOS* fw is not made anymore and in any event wasn't made -- am
I right? -- with 2-teeth gaps. (The Dingle isn't either, but I have a
stash.)



On Sun, Oct 15, 2023 at 4:11 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:

> ...  The DIngle isn't made anymore and in any event wasn't made -- am I
> right? -- with 2-teeth gaps.
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Are Paul brakes worth the money?

2023-10-15 Thread Max S

I'll also chime in to say that Paul brakes have some advantageous features 
(e.g., continuous spring tension adjustability), but also some features 
that I find infuriating in actual use, and a few instances of downright 
poor mechanical design. 
One design flaw is the fully threaded mounting bolt on the Racer, which I 
discussed in a slightly geeky thread on iBOB / with Mark Bulgier. It places 
a stress riser precisely at the root, front of fork crown, where it should 
be avoided at all costs. Perhaps the grade of the steel is above and beyond 
what's been used in the past, but it would fail scrutiny in a basic 
mechanical design class. 
Another flaw has to do with using a separate steel sleeve fitting over the 
canti stud. It puts the brake further out than it needs to, and the problem 
it's presumably attempting to solve (warped studs, bearing corrosion?..) 
creates problems with mounting in the first place, and is avoided entirely 
by brass bushings on the majority of other brakes. I've encountered 
problems mounting them on two frames, and a third frame I bought had one 
VERY firmly stuck on the stud... Haven't had this issue with any of the 
nearly two dozen conventional canti / V brakes I've used. 
A third design flaw, IME, is the extra lip on the brake arm, forward of and 
at 90% to the brake pad mounting hole, which limits how close the pad can 
sit in the outboard direction. When trying to use this brake on bikes with 
slightly narrower canti stud placement (which are good, from the standpoint 
of minimizing pad dive), this extra lip creates rim clearance problems. 
But hey, you can get them in lots of colors, and they're US-made, and 
they're made by an independent small shop, and they're a way to show you 
care about your bike, which I do in plenty of other ways myself... And the 
vast majority of us will not use them to the limit anyway. 

I do like their brake levers, though! 

- Max 

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:12:22 PM UTC-4 wboe...@gmail.com wrote:

> Cost was a significant part of my argument, for sure.  Also, Zestes will 
> work with the normal spring anchors on most posts.  I am not a fan of 
> Paul's spring solution - it's tidy but I found it finicky to adjust (and 
> keep adjusted) on the one set of minimotos I owned.  That said, the Zeste 
> brakes are non-trivial to install.  Took me an hour to do the first but was 
> slightly quicker with the second set.
>
> Will
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:06:41 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:
>
>> And!!! Zests are half the price of Pauls!
>>
>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 2:05 PM Patrick Moore  wrote:
>>
>>> IME the problem with the Tektros wasn't the stopping power but the 
>>> sloppy pivots. They stopped about as well as the Pauls but they squealed 
>>> and juddered. The Pauls are machined much more precisely and don't squeal 
>>> at all or judder as much.
>>>
>>> On my bike, the Pauls are no worse than any other cantilever I've used 
>>> but their braking power is hardly beyond ordinary; the high end forged 
>>> single pivot on my gofast road fixed gear gives more retardation per amount 
>>> of hand squeeze than the Touring on the front of my errand road bike or the 
>>> Neo Retro in back. Ditto for any number of single pivots, dual pivots, 
>>> centerpulls, not to mention disks and V brakes.
>>>
>>> I wish I'd known about the Zests before I bought Pauls. Perhaps they 
>>> would have been more powerful.
>>>
>>> Still, the Pauls are beautifully made, so very easy to set up, and 
>>> perfectly functional, tho' I think they are more industrial looking that 
>>> elegant. Overall, taking all with all, I'm not unhappy.
>>>
>>> BUT! I will be very interested to hear others' comparison of the Zests 
>>> with Pauls; or of other cantilevers wtih Pauls.
>>>
>>> On Sat, Oct 14, 2023 at 12:21 PM Will Boericke  
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's not surprising to me that Pauls would be better than the 720s.  I 
 know they (Tektro 720s) have a dedicated following; I can't understand 
 why.  In my experience, they were mediocre stoppers, replaced quickly by 
 Shimano CX70s and then by mini-Vs.  

 I just replaced some budget Shimano cantis on my commuter with Velo 
 Orange Zeste brakes and they're amazing.  For the $70 I paid, miraculous 
 even.  Hard to imagine that Pauls would be better.

 Will

 On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 5:03:24 PM UTC-4 Patrick Moore wrote:

> I swapped Tektro C 720s for Paul cantis, Touring in the rear, Neo 
> Retro in front, after I experienced severe squeal and judder in the front 
> with the Tektros. The bike in question is a 58 cm c-c built for 26"/559 
> mm 
> bsd wheels, so the steerer is hugely long.
>
> I got the Tektros to work sufficiently well by toeing them in at an 
> absurd angle, but the Pauls (using the same salmon pads) stop a wee bit 
> better, with normal toe in, and judder in front is reduced to a fugitive 
> whisper. And

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

I'll probably get clobbered for my reply to this discussion - I'm used to 
it - but from viewing the pics of Leah's bikes in this thread plus others 
in previous threads, her bike always seems to be either in the highest gear 
or at least the next to highest. And she has admitted to as much in 
previous discussions that's how she likes it. And since she likes the 
saddle moved as far as possible to the rear this means that she's using the 
leverage of that angle while pulling back on the bar grips in order to 
"stomp" as hard as possible on the pedals.  Since she has the leg 
development and strength to get away with that kind of riding due to her 
weight training and other off-bike workouts, that's just how she's using to 
riding.

Many of the rest of us old farts who learned road riding on a 
diamond-framed bike with drop bars, having the saddle positioned more 
closely to the center of the BB so we could "spin" the pedals at as high a 
cadence (RPM) as possible, shifting gears when necessary in order to 
maintain that cadence (which is how I assume the pro racers still learn to 
ride).  Which is probably why she gets some sideways looks by others in the 
pace lines of her bike club.  That's not how she's learned to ride for 
whatever reason, so fiddling around with saddle position is likely to be a 
problem, or as least a considerable adjustment for her.  Anyway, that's my 
2¢.

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 3:27:57 PM UTC-5 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Ok, I understand
>
> Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 
> 2.5cm.  This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
>
> Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar 
> distance, indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is 
> OK now.
>
> So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
> Acceptable position..
>
> I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up 
> on the Billie:
> 'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
>
>  So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm 
> longer (5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.
> Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are within 0.5cm (5mm) of where 
> you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm on the other side.  A 
> 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either way probably cant 
> be felt..
>
> Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length 
> stem..   The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to 
> the 'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that 
> other Riv sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate 
> the Billie bar is the common problem.
>
>
> RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a 
> sweep back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as 
> too short due t9 the bar sweep back.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>  
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 02:45:29 PM EDT, Roberta  
> wrote: 
>
>
> Thanks, John.
>
> I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards 
> the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  
> the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to 
> feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  
>
> I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."
>
> Roberta
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
> Roberta
>
> Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD 
> the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long 
> and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, 
> most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
>
> Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
>  Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
> opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
> within the range of Brooks adjustability.
>
> But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
> far as the rails could take it.  
>
> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
> unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
> ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
> up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost 
> would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars,

[RBW] FS- A lot of random stuff, Brompton, camping, tenkara,

2023-10-15 Thread Drw

Had this stuff kicking around the garage and need it gone. All prices do
not include shipping. Pick up in Los angeles is totally welcome. Photos here

.
Thanks for looking,
Drew

*Yuba take off stuff- selling all together 65$ plus shipping*
*all came off of a 2023 yuba kombi and are essentially new. not the
lightest or fanciest stuff, but clean and serviceable.*
*-*handlebars with adjustable threadless stem and grips
-Crank with 42t chainring, bashguard and plastic pedals
-Saddle

*Brompton take off stuff- selling all together for 150$ or a la carte below*
*all came off of a 2022 brompton and are essentially new*
-M/H handlebars with brompton grips- 30$ plus shipping
-Brompton standard saddle- 20$ plus shipping
-Brompton rear rack with rear fender and ez wheels- 120$ plus shipping
-EZ wheel upgrade wheels. Bigger/wider and with bearings- 20$ plus shipping

*Velo Orange happy stem.* threadless, 90mm, 31.8, black. mounted but never
used.- 35$ plus shipping
*Sunrace 9 speed cassette-* 11-40t excellent condition-15$ plus shipping
*31.8 seatpost clamp- *free with any purchase
*Microshift front derailler-* bottom pull. comes with a 31.8 clamp but it
is interchangeable- 15$ plus shipping
*Gyes leather saddle-* wide-ish- 20$ plus shipping
*20 in tubes-*1.75-2.125- 5 of them- 15$ plus shipping
*Battery light and click bell-* free with any purchase

*Agu venture frame bag-* unused- 20$ plus shipping
*Dill pickle u-lock holder-* free with any purchase

*Thermarest sit pad- *15$ plus shipping
*Six moon designs lunar solo shelter- *seam sealed- used once in my
backyard- 200$ plus shipping (does not include stakes or trekking pole.
295$ new)
*Reyr Tiny cast tenkara- *Used a couple of times. comes with line, leader,
sleeve and replacement tip section. integrated line holder. really awesome
ultralight fishing setup. 100$ plus shipping
*Stainless camping pan, plate and pot stand for alcohol stoves*- free with
any purchase

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak' via RBW Owners Bunch

 Ok, I understand
Moving the saddle back increases the saddle to bar distance by about 2.5cm.  
This indicates the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT.
Then, You cut 1 cm from the bars.  This increased the saddle to bar distance, 
indicating the frame/stem/bar combination was too SHORT, but is OK now.
So you ended up increasing the saddle to bar distance 3.5 cm to get to an 
Acceptable position..
I think the Alba bar would be better based on this from the RBW write up on the 
Billie:'The Billie straight grip section is 2" (5 cm) longer than an Alba."
 So an Alba with a 10cm stem would have a saddle to bar distance 1.5cm longer 
(5 - 3.5) than what you ended up.Replace the 10 cm stem with a 9cm and you are 
within 0.5cm (5mm) of where you are at.  A 8cm stem would also work, just 5mm 
on the other side.  A 8.5cm would be mathematically correct, but the 5mm either 
way probably cant be felt..
Leah is also in a too short condition, excess seatpost SB and max length stem.. 
  The extra 5cm of straight grip length of the Billie contributes to the 
'shortness' by having the LONG straight grip section.   The fact that other Riv 
sisters had the same problem and they used Billie bars, indicate the Billie bar 
is the common problem.

RBW supplies the Platy built up in Taiwan with a Tosco bar which has a sweep 
back about the same a s a Billie.  So they seem to supply Platy's as too short 
due t9 the bar sweep back.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJ
 
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 02:45:29 PM EDT, Roberta 
 wrote:  
 
 Thanks, John.
I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards the 
rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  the 
bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to feel 
OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  

I ended in a good position, so like you said "then all is good in life."
Roberta

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

Roberta
Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD the 
maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long and your 
needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, most Brooks 
have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.   Cutting 
the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the opposite of your 
original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is within the range of 
Brooks adjustability.

But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
John HawrylakWoodstown NJOn Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 
Roberta wrote:

I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are quite 
a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as far as the 
rails could take it.  
I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my saddle 
high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm unwilling to buy 
a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall ones with 10 cm, the 
longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended up cutting ("the horror") 
1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost would be shorter than mine, 
closer to the handlebars, right?, so she might feel it more.



On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:

What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
Sent from my iPhone

On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:



Reflecting on all the setback talk, I do think the reach may be inherently a 
tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as Leah - possibly 
even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed my Rivendell with a 
54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's perfect. 



On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that 
Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️

On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.
Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, 
saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, 
and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut 
Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the 
bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent 
her a photo. 
“That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the 
unvarnished truth. 
I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these 
grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them 
up on the

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Joe Bernard

Moving the saddle back moves it further away from the bars, you were 
correct. 

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 11:45:23 AM UTC-7 Roberta wrote:

> Thanks, John.
>
> I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards 
> the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  
> the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to 
> feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  
>
> I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."
>
> Roberta
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown 
> NJ wrote:
>
>> Roberta
>>
>> Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle 
>> FORWARD the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is 
>> too long and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far 
>> forward, most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
>>
>> Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
>>  Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
>> opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
>> within the range of Brooks adjustability.
>>
>> But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
>>
>> John Hawrylak
>> Woodstown NJ
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>>
>>> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
>>> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
>>> far as the rails could take it.  
>>>
>>> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
>>> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
>>> unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
>>> ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
>>> up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her 
>>> saddle/seatpost would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, 
>>> right?, so she might feel it more.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
 Sent from my iPhone

 On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:

 Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
 inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
 Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant 
 designed 
 my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
 perfect. 



 On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love 
> that Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️
>
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike 
>> Makeover thread.
>>
>> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my 
>> favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips 
>> and 
>> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in 
>> the 
>> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of 
>> season. I 
>> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull 
>> it 
>> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other 
>> Platypus, 
>> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>>
>> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving 
>> me the unvarnished truth. 
>>
>> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
>> found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
>> didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
>> chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather 
>> grips 
>> in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
>> throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
>> abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
>> elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
>> texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 
>>
>> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
>> wholly appointed to its duty.
>>
>> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a 
>> pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>>
>> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
>> Leah
>>
> -- 

 You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the 
 Google Groups

Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Roberta

Thanks, John.

I must have said it wrong.  I moved my saddle AWAY from the bars, towards 
the rear end of my bike.  I think that's called aft (I had to look it up).  
the bars were still too close, so I cut off 1cm (after a year of trying to 
feel OK).  If the stem had come in an 11cm, I would have just done that.  

I ended in a good position, so like you said " then all is good in life."

Roberta

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 2:08:31 PM UTC-4 John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ 
wrote:

> Roberta
>
> Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD 
> the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long 
> and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, 
> most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  
>
> Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
>  Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
> opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
> within the range of Brooks adjustability.
>
> But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:
>
>> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
>> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
>> far as the rails could take it.  
>>
>> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
>> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
>> unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
>> ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
>> up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her 
>> saddle/seatpost would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, 
>> right?, so she might feel it more.
>>
>>
>>
>> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
>>> Sent from my iPhone
>>>
>>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>>
>>> Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
>>> inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
>>> Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed 
>>> my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
>>> perfect. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>>
 I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love 
 that Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️

 On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
 Ding! wrote:

> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
> thread.
>
> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my 
> favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in 
> the 
> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. 
> I 
> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull 
> it 
> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other 
> Platypus, 
> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>
> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving 
> me the unvarnished truth. 
>
> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
> found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
> didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
> chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather 
> grips 
> in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
> throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
> abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
> elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
> texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 
>
> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
> wholly appointed to its duty.
>
> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a 
> pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>
> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
> Leah
>
 -- 
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

Roberta

Pushing the saddle BACK to the back of the clamp, moves the saddle FORWARD 
the maximum amount.  This indicates the saddle to bar distance is too long 
and your needed to reduce the reach.   Maybe you pushed it too far forward, 
most Brooks have only 20 to 30mm of total fore/aft motion..  

Did you cut 1cm off the bars after pushing forward the max amount??.  
 Cutting the bars indicate the saddle to bar distance is too short, the 
opposite of your original action (push saddle forward).   The 1 cm cut is 
within the range of Brooks adjustability.

But if you ended in a good position, then all is good in life.

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:26:10 PM UTC-4 Roberta wrote:

> I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
> quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
> far as the rails could take it.  
>
> I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
> saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
> unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
> ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
> up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost 
> would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, right?, so she might 
> feel it more.
>
>
>
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
> wrote:
>
>> What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
>> Sent from my iPhone
>>
>> On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>>
>> Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
>> inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
>> Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed 
>> my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
>> perfect. 
>>
>>
>>
>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>>
>>> I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love 
>>> that Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️
>>>
>>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>>> Ding! wrote:
>>>
 In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
 thread.

 Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
 Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
 occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the 
 Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. 
 I 
 was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it 
 out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other 
 Platypus, 
 slapped them on and sent her a photo. 

 “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving 
 me the unvarnished truth. 

 I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
 found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
 didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
 chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips 
 in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
 throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
 abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
 elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
 texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 

 This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
 wholly appointed to its duty.

 Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair 
 to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…

 Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
 Leah

>>> -- 
>>
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>>  
>> 
>> .
>>
>>

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[RBW] Re: Nutmeg Nor'Easter 2023

2023-10-15 Thread lyon...@gmail.com

I'm going to add a mermaid gus to the mix--see you out there!

Adam in Portland

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 9:26:52 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:

>
> Most excellent! Looking forward to it and hoping the forecast improves. 
> On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:52:35 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:
>
>> Justin and Stephen — I'll be on my Appaloosa so that'll be three mermaid 
>> frames... at least! 
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>
>>> Yep that was me!
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:
>>>

 Stephen, i met you outside Luigi’s a couple weeks ago?? 
 On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:09:28 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:

> I’ll be there on the appa!
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 7:50:36 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn 
> NY wrote:
>
>> Some day…
>> Have fun!
>> -Kai
>>
>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 4:07:20 PM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>> Hi Patch! see ya there ;-)
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-4 Patch T wrote:
>>>
 MEEE - but you knew that :)

 Patch in Brooklyn

 On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:16:37 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy 
 wrote:

> Curious if anyone else from the RBW Owners Bunch will be there 
> this year. If so, would love to say hello! I'll be on my mermaid 
> Platy.
>
> Cheers-
>


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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

Leah you stated " What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically 
fit the 50!"

>From the pictures you posted, your seatpost is almost fully inserted in the 
seat tube.  This indicates the frame is the LARGEST frame for your PBH.

However, your need for a LONG reach indicates you need a frame larger than 
your PBH allows.

The RBW geo tables show the Following Effective top tube lengths for the 
Platy (all in cm)

Frame   Effective TTL
50  59
55  61.5
60  66.5

So even a 55cm frame only gives you 2.5cm more reach ( Eff TTL (55)  -  Eff 
TTL (50) ), which is not enough get you to a normal seat post SB of 2 to 3 
cm.   A 60cm frame gives toy 7.5cm more reach, allowing a 2/3cm SB seat 
post and also recuing the stem to 7 to 8cm.

If you are using 175mm cranks, you could buy 5mm by using 170mm cranks, 
allowing you to raise the saddle 5mm and lower the bars 5mm.  But that 
seems like a drop in the bucket.

Like I said, the Wayback seat post is nice since it shows "Form is 
following Function"

An alternative is bar which does not come back as far as the Billie bar 
(8.25" per RBW & a key point, 2" (5cm) longer than an Alba)).  This allows 
the saddle to move forward on the seatpost.   Alternately, cut the Billie 
bar 2cm to shorten it and see if it improves.

You could also push the saddle as far forward in the seatpost clamp to move 
the saddle forward (you probably did this already)

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
> inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
> Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed 
> my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
> perfect. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that 
>> Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
>>> Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
>>> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the 
>>> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I 
>>> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it 
>>> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, 
>>> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>>>
>>> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me 
>>> the unvarnished truth. 
>>>
>>> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
>>> found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
>>> didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
>>> chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips 
>>> in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
>>> throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
>>> abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
>>> elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
>>> texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 
>>>
>>> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
>>> wholly appointed to its duty.
>>>
>>> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair 
>>> to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>>>
>>> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
>>> Leah
>>>
>> -- 
>
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> 
> .
>
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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Roberta

I've had a few emails with other RivSisters who own Platys and there are 
quite a few of us who've commented on having to push one's saddle back as 
far as the rails could take it.  

I'm on a 55 Platy with 83cm pbh--one or two more than Leah AND I like my 
saddle high-- and would probably like mine back a touch more, but I'm 
unwilling to buy a new seat post.  My stem is one of the Nitto extra tall 
ones with 10 cm, the longest they make for the extra high model.  I ended 
up cutting (*"the horror"*) 1 cm off my Billie Bars.  Her saddle/seatpost 
would be shorter than mine, closer to the handlebars, right?, so she might 
feel it more.



On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:02:30 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!
> Sent from my iPhone
>
> On Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard  wrote:
>
> Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
> inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
> Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed 
> my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
> perfect. 
>
>
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:
>
>> I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that 
>> Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️
>>
>> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
>>> thread.
>>>
>>> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
>>> Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
>>> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the 
>>> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I 
>>> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it 
>>> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, 
>>> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>>>
>>> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me 
>>> the unvarnished truth. 
>>>
>>> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally 
>>> found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but 
>>> didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my 
>>> chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips 
>>> in hand. The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint 
>>> throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the 
>>> abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only 
>>> elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some 
>>> texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. 
>>>
>>> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
>>> wholly appointed to its duty.
>>>
>>> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair 
>>> to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>>>
>>> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
>>> Leah
>>>
>> -- 
>
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> .
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[RBW] Re: WTB - Wheels for my Homer

2023-10-15 Thread jeffbog...@hotmail.com

PM sent

On Sunday, 15 October 2023 at 10:19:03 UTC-5 chefd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Hello friends, I'm looking to build up an older Waterford Homer frame that 
> recently arrived at my house and need a set of wheels... 700c, 135 rear 
> spacing. I suppose I could order up something new, but thought I would 
> check the list first. I'm in the SF Bay Area. Thanks! 

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Re: [RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners Bunch

What’s weird is that I sized up! My PBH would technically fit the 50!Sent from my iPhoneOn Oct 15, 2023, at 12:55 PM, Joe Bernard wrote:Reflecting on all the setback talk, I do think the reach may be inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's perfect. On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! wrote:In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover thread.Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, slapped them on and sent her a photo. “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me the unvarnished truth. I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. The bike looks positively tonal. The colors of the paint throw out so many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual interest at the handlebar area. This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and wholly appointed to its duty.Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…Attached in the next post are the before and afters.Leah

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[RBW] Re: Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Joe Bernard

Reflecting on all the setback talk, I *do *think the reach may be 
inherently a tad short for the rider in question. I'm the same height as 
Leah - possibly even shorter, I'm aging and shrinking! - and Grant designed 
my Rivendell with a 54.2 ST, 63 ETT to work with Boscos up way high. It's 
perfect. 

On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:33:09 AM UTC-7 Joe Bernard wrote:

> I love the new look. I also love the old look! Basically I just love that 
> Raspberry Racing Platy ❤️❤️❤️
>
> On Wednesday, October 11, 2023 at 6:52:55 PM UTC-7 Bicycle Belle Ding 
> Ding! wrote:
>
>> In the same vein as my Bike Style thread, I’m starting a Bike Makeover 
>> thread.
>>
>> Every now and then, I get the urge to change up the look of my favorite 
>> Platypus. I have it perfect mechanically, but bags and grips and 
>> occasionally, saddles, beg to be changed up. It’s fully autumn here in the 
>> Great Lakes State, and my ivory Rivet was looking a little out of season. I 
>> was gifted a chestnut Rivet from a dear RivSister, so I decided to pull it 
>> out and put it on the bike. I took the brown Ergons from my other Platypus, 
>> slapped them on and sent her a photo. 
>>
>> “That bike deserves prettier grips. Those are ugly,” she said, giving me 
>> the unvarnished truth. 
>>
>> I looked again. She was right. Back to the drawing board. I finally found 
>> these grips from Rivet Cycle Works - Deb told me she had these but didn’t 
>> have them up on the website yet. She had the exact match to my chestnut 
>> saddle and days later, I had these gorgeous stamped leather grips in hand. 
>> The bike looks positively *tonal.* The colors of the paint throw out so 
>> many different shades of pinks and reds, thanks to the abundant glitter in 
>> the metallic; adding rich leather accessories only elevates the look. The 
>> stamped designs on the leather give the bike some texture and add visual 
>> interest at the handlebar area. 
>>
>> This Platypus is like a little autumn posey. Perfect and pretty, and 
>> wholly appointed to its duty.
>>
>> Now if I can just convince Deb to make these in ivory, so I have a pair 
>> to match my ivory Rivet saddle when spring comes…
>>
>> Attached in the next post are the before and afters.
>> Leah
>>
>

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Re: [RBW] Re: Another Toyo Atlantis Build Thread

2023-10-15 Thread John Rinker

I agree with ChefDurfee, that color is stunning, as is the whole setup of 
this Atlantis. The red accents at play with the Jolly Rancher apple geen 
are eye-catching. Must be so satisfying to pedal around on.

Cheers, John

On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 11:16:10 PM UTC-7 chefd...@gmail.com wrote:

> Sweet Jolly Rancher Apple, I like that!  Swing it by Dandelion someday if 
> you have the chance, I'd love to have a closer look! sd
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 4:26:24 PM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF 
> wrote:
>
>> I did have a 26" a while back.  Miss that bike![image: IMG_5922.jpg]
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 1:35:56 PM UTC-7 brok...@gmail.com 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Ah! Ok… sorry, when I zoomed in, I misread the tires as Naches Pass 
>>> (which are 26”), instead of Hatcher Pass (700). So I thought it was one of 
>>> the 26” models, like my 54.5 Toyo. Great work! Sorry you had to deal with a 
>>> damaged frame, but it seems to have all worked out for the best!
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2023, at 3:49 PM, Brendan Willard  wrote:
>>>
>>> 58!
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> -Brendan Willard
>>> Owner/Winemaker
>>> Phantômé Cellars
>>>
>>> phantomecellars.com 
>>>
>>> Speaking in Thumbs 
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2023, at 12:16 PM, Brian Turner  wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Looks great, Brendan! What size? 53? 54.5?
>>>
>>> On Oct 14, 2023, at 12:43 PM, Brendan Willard in SF  
>>> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:42:53 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 [image: IMG_5752.jpg]

 On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:42:07 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in SF 
 wrote:

> [image: IMG_5859.JPG]
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:41:24 AM UTC-7 Brendan Willard in 
> SF wrote:
>
>> I purchased this low miles Toyo Atlantis from a fellow who had it 
>> built up with a bunch of 9 speed era fast roadie parts.  
>>
>> The bike arrived with a dent in the top tube, so I got a quote from 
>> Rick at D, contacted Bike Flights and they had insurance cut a check.
>>
>> The bike went to Rick and I decided on the Hunq green as I've never 
>> been a big fan of the original Atlantis color.  The paint it beautiful, 
>> a 
>> bit more sparkly green apple than I expected but it's growing on me.  
>> It's 
>> a good match for my green and white Vans, bike lane paint, green waste 
>> bins, and Lime scooters (see the latest Riv email).
>>
>> I had some mismatched Paul levers, a nice SKF BB, some Salsa Rasta 
>> skewers, a Clem wheelset, and some other odds and ends.  Bought a 
>> Clipper 
>> crankset, a Sycip Singles Bar, some Thumbies, XT V-Brakes, etc.
>>
>> I don't usually get down with blingy anodized stuff, but I'm really 
>> in love with the Rasta skewers and red of the SKF against the green 
>> frame.  
>> Should I order those anodized Wolftooth bolts?? Hmmm
>>
>> Anyhooo.  Here it is in front of my wife's N+1 pillow collection and 
>> around SF.
>> [image: IMG_5855.JPG]
>>
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To

[RBW] FS: Soft Goods - Bontrager, Kitsbow, Dogbagz, Coffee Stuff, Riv MUSA

2023-10-15 Thread Michael Ullmer

Prices are net to me and don't include shipping. Will ship using Pirateship:

1) Bontrager Commuting Knickers - Medium - $15
--I've had these for years and wore them a lot back then, but haven't
really used them in the past 5+ years. Nice stretchy material. Shows some
wear, but no rips.

2) Kitsbow Gray Riding Polo Medium - $30
--The tag's been cut out, so can't confirm material, but I expect its a
merino/poly blend. Small snap pocket on the front with integrated glasses
cleaner. No holes, tears, etc.

3) Kitsbow Henley Red/Gray S/S Shirt - $35
--87.5% Merino, 12.5% Poly. Great condition, longer tail to cover you while
riding.

4) Greenlite Tool Roll - Free with any purchase
--Don't remember when I got this. Made in Seattle, pretty dirty.

5) Map Case - Free with any purchase
--Picked this up from Swift Industries at a seconds sale many years back.
It has some velcro on it to strap it to the top of a bag/basket/etc.

6) DogBagz Pannier - $100
--Big panniers made of cordura. Made by a small bagmaker out of Seattle (
https://www.instagram.com/dog_bagz/?hl=en). One main rolltop compartment,
one flap pocket on the outside and water bottle pocket on one side.

7) Soto Helix Coffee Dripper - $10
--I switched to an aeropress for my coffee outside setup. In great shape,
comes with carrying case and some extra filters.

8) Titanium Tea Kettle - $10
--Super light, works great for coffee/tea. Just downsizing my coffee
outside setup.

9) MUSA Splats - $30
--I believe these are size A. I picked these up for my partner years ago,
she never used them though.

10) Seagull Bags /Organizer Accessory Bag - Free with any purchase
--This came with my first Seagull Messenger Bag I bought back in the early
2000s. Haven't used it in years.

Pics here: https://photos.app.goo.gl/WigvTXQ8oiU65G3x7

Mike in Minneapolis

[RBW] WTB - Wheels for my Homer

2023-10-15 Thread Stephen Durfee

Hello friends, I'm looking to build up an older Waterford Homer frame that 
recently arrived at my house and need a set of wheels... 700c, 135 rear 
spacing. I suppose I could order up something new, but thought I would 
check the list first. I'm in the SF Bay Area. Thanks! 

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Re: [RBW] Bike Makeover Thread

Leah

I believe the ACTUAL Set Back (SB) of the IRD Wayback is 2cm MORE Than the 
Indication.   This is based on measurements I made using a Sakae MTE-100 
adjustable setback seat post on a workbench with the seatpost at a 73° to 
the horizontal, which mimics the actual angel it is on a 'nominal' frame, 
and results in the seatpost clamp being horizontal.  The IRD is based on 
the Sakae MTE-100 design 

You stated you are currently at 42 to 43 SB (the units are mm), which would 
be an Actual SB of 6.2 to 6.3 cm.   This increased SB  is like a seat tube 
angel which 3.5° less than what you have.  As Garth pointed out, the Platy 
STA is 71.5°, so your effective STA with your current SB is 68°.

Most seatposts have setbacks of 2.0 to 3.0cm, so you are about 3.0 to 4.0 
cm further setback.   Your new grips would have to be 3 to 4 cm further up 
the bars than the old, in order to have a seat post SB of 2 to 3 cm, the 
range of a normal seat post.

Alternately, cutting the bars by 2cm may be enough, with the new grips, to 
reduce your SB to 2 to 3 cm for a normal seatpost and also move you to a 
more 'normal' position.   A 2cm shorter bar may not decrease your real 
estate in the areas that matter.

Otherwise, The IRD Wayback looks good on your Platy and looks even better 
when you consider "Form is following Function'

Also, as you pointed out earlier, your Platy frame seems to be 'short'.  
The SB you are using indicates the frame needs a 3 to 4cm longer effective 
top tube length, to reduce the SB to a 'normal' range.   Do you have 
similar SBs on your other RBW frames???

John Hawrylak
Woodstown NJ
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 8:02:54 AM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding Ding! 
wrote:

> John, 
> My seatpost actually has setback to 50. I have my saddle at 42 or 43. Now 
> that I have these new grips, I could try the old seat post. The new grips 
> sit further up the bars and I have more reach now. The feeling of being 
> cramped was fairly slight, and I could often ignore it, but it was one of 
> those little niggling details I wanted improved. Some people would have 
> chopped their Billie Bars - not me! I need all that real estate so keep 
> 1000 things on my bars!
>
> Eric, I know. I have had this exact thought. Bill Lindsay - I would trust 
> you to do it! And I would drive to your part of Michigan if you had the 
> tool to make it happen! No pressure or anything. 
>
> Joseph! Oh why bother getting it in silver? Such a magnificent seat post 
> deserves to be a focal point: I should just go with the black. 
>
> Joyce, there’s a woman in product design over at 1 Up, I see! I love my 
> RivSisters; they don’t want me to miss out on any of the best stuff.
>
> Leah
>
> On Oct 14, 2023, at 4:48 PM, 'John Hawrylak, Woodstown NJ' via RBW Owners 
> Bunch  wrote:
>
> A Nitto S84 has at least 10mm LESS setback than the IRD Wayback (approx 
> 40mm (S84) vs 50mm (IRD) per RBW site).   Leah pics shows the IRD to be 
> full back.   So even if she could use a 27.2 post, the S84 does not have 
> the setback she needs.
>
>
> The real question is why didn't  RBW design the frame for a 27.2mm seat 
> postAre they using a straight gauge seat tube vs a butted seat tube 
> to save cost???  Or do they need a thicker wall for the lug in the middle 
> of the seat tube??
>
> John Hawrylak
> Woodstown NJ
>
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 7:28:07 AM UTC-4 ascpgh wrote:
>
>> The difficulty of less than common seat tube diameters was the indirect 
>> subject of another lister's, touched upon a bit ago from a different 
>> perspective: 
>> https://groups.google.com/g/rbw-owners-bunch/c/ooTGF-OdSws/m/9T6WazuQAAAJ
>>
>> Every bike is different but if feasible on your Platy, it can be done to 
>> permit something as nice as the Nitto S84 
>> 
>> .
>>
>> Love Deb's "pre stock" grips for your Ergons. She's the best. 
>>
>> Andy Cheatham
>> Pittsburgh
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:36:47 PM UTC-4 Bicycle Belle Ding 
>> Ding! wrote:
>>
>>> I’ve had enough experiences with bike shops to be very hesitant to hand 
>>> them my bike for a task that could ruin the frame. What happens if the hole 
>>> is reamed too large? I can’t see that the frame would be salvageable. 
>>>
>>> On Oct 12, 2023, at 9:10 AM, Johnny Alien  wrote:
>>>
>>> Many here have said that its not a big deal to get a bike shop to ream 
>>> it to 27.2 to allow for more seatpost options. I find it frustrating as 
>>> well but slightly less so because I don't need the extra setback. 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On Thursday, October 12, 2023 at 7:39:10 AM UTC-4 brok...@gmail.com 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Yeah, the whole 26.8 seat tube limitation has got to be one of the most 
 frustrating things about this era of Rivendell. 

 On Oct 12, 2023, at 6:43 AM, Leah Peterson  wrote:

 Ryan,
 That seat post is butt ugly. The only ugly thing on the bike. I like

Re: [RBW] Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Joseph Tousignant

   Well Garth, if she decides she doesn't need the setback after all with 
those  handlebarsbars, there is always the Thompson Elite straight seatpost 
in 26.8 x 330 in BLACK below,  also listed on sale at $85.79  :-)

https://carsoncitybikeshop.com/elite-seatpost-26-8-x-330mm-black/

 A bit of nostalgia for me,... I believe the (4) 1987 Schwinn Cimarron 
early mountain bike frames in red I've accumulated over the decades in 
various sizes all also use a 26.8 mm seat post. My FIRST serious bike at 
age 31 was a MUCH too small red 1987 Cimarron, but it was the only one 
Rudy's Bikeshop (retired and long gone ) in North Troy NY had in stock at 
the time,... AND I had money to burn! :-)   

  With a rear rack and a nylon set of panniers, it cost about $700 with tax 
back in 1987!   It hurt making about maybe $80 a week, but I still have 
that bike, and looked for larger 1987 red frames on the bay at reasonable 
prices,... and I also use one of those occasionally "just because" I 
learned a VERY important physics lesson with it. 

Not a week after buying it, I popped a wheelie in a parking lot and 
discovered that you MUST not land with the handlebars turned! I also 
learned I could FLY at the same time... :-)  hehe

 Possibly the 26.8 tube size was looked at as a bit stronger for early MTB 
use back then, and I'm not sure if the Chromoly steel was thicker or not , 
but ALL have never had an issue other than lack of choice in the current 
and many decade long 27.2 mm diameter frame seat tube popularity.

Cheers,
Joe T

On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 8:45:13 AM UTC-4 Garth wrote:

> What's being glossed over here in all the talk of mega-setback posts is 
> that Leah has expressed in the past that the only reason she resorted to 
> such a post was for more reach to the bars because she wasn't aware of any 
> other way to get the bar height equal to the Technomic 280mm quill stem(it 
> only comes in a max 100mm extension). As I described in an earlier post, a 
> combination of the Long/Tall Nitto quill adapter plus a positive ride 
> threadless stem can offer the same height plus more forward extension as 
> such stems are available up to 140mm. It's a matter of simple geometry. 
>
> Not only does she not need to be that fat back of the bottom bracket, it 
> makes for a less efficient use one's inherent power. (There are some people 
> with proportionally long femurs who may want more set back if too far 
> forward, but that isn't common and isn't Leah here). I remember Leah's 
> Betty Foy where she had a regular setback post and the reach forward she 
> wanted. The Betty seat tube angle is 72d, while the Platy has an even more 
> shallow 71.5. That geometry difference alone accounts for about 6-7mm more 
> setback, relative to the center BB. She obviously doesn't need even more 
> setback. I also recall Leah in her riding stories how she tended to stand 
> while climbing. What does that do ?  It places you more forward into the 
> "sweet spot" of utilizing the core(strongest) muscles. It's literally like 
> dancing on the pedals, "light on your feet" kind of feeling, where you feel 
> perfectly balanced over the bb where you're strongest. Here it's easy to 
> bend up and down and all around. Being too far back or forward you just 
> can't dance and you're off-center balance. Try it for yourself. That same 
> balancing point can be experienced while seated by moving your body forward 
> relative to the center BB. Where exactly that is varies for everyone, so do 
> experiment. 
>
> If the proper center point and relative reach forward reach isn't 
> achievable on a given frame then that frame is not a good fit to begin with 
> no matter how pretty it may be. Having wayback bars and shallow head tube 
> angles on Riv's doesn't help any as you have converging seat and head 
> angles, the more you raise the bars the closer they get, dramatically. Bike 
> fitting isn't mysterious or difficult and it certainly doesn't help to just 
> ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter. Have some fun with it if you will 
> !  
>
> Once she gets into a better position she won't have to lament over how and 
> who can enlarge the seat tube as she already has a regular 26.8 post. I 
> can't recall if it's a Nitto or Kalloy but if it slips there are ways of 
> adding grip-tion to the part that slips. 
>
> It's a nice day for a ride :)
>

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[RBW] Re: Nutmeg Nor'Easter 2023

2023-10-15 Thread Justin Kennedy


Most excellent! Looking forward to it and hoping the forecast improves. 
On Sunday, October 15, 2023 at 1:52:35 AM UTC-4 eric...@gmail.com wrote:

> Justin and Stephen — I'll be on my Appaloosa so that'll be three mermaid 
> frames... at least! 
>
> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:56:46 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>
>> Yep that was me!
>>
>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:23:52 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> Stephen, i met you outside Luigi’s a couple weeks ago?? 
>>> On Saturday, October 14, 2023 at 9:09:28 AM UTC-4 Stephen wrote:
>>>
 I’ll be there on the appa!

 On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 7:50:36 PM UTC-4 Kainalu V. -Brooklyn NY 
 wrote:

> Some day…
> Have fun!
> -Kai
>
> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 4:07:20 PM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy wrote:
>
>> Hi Patch! see ya there ;-)
>>
>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 3:14:56 PM UTC-4 Patch T wrote:
>>
>>> MEEE - but you knew that :)
>>>
>>> Patch in Brooklyn
>>>
>>> On Friday, October 13, 2023 at 10:16:37 AM UTC-4 Justin Kennedy 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 Curious if anyone else from the RBW Owners Bunch will be there this 
 year. If so, would love to say hello! I'll be on my mermaid Platy.

 Cheers-

>>>

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Re: [RBW] Bike Makeover Thread

2023-10-15 Thread Garth

What's being glossed over here in all the talk of mega-setback posts is
that Leah has expressed in the past that the only reason she resorted to
such a post was for more reach to the bars because she wasn't aware of any
other way to get the bar height equal to the Technomic 280mm quill stem(it
only comes in a max 100mm extension). As I described in an earlier post, a
combination of the Long/Tall Nitto quill adapter plus a positive ride
threadless stem can offer the same height plus more forward extension as
such stems are available up to 140mm. It's a matter of simple geometry.

Not only does she not need to be that fat back of the bottom bracket, it
makes for a less efficient use one's inherent power. (There are some people
with proportionally long femurs who may want more set back if too far
forward, but that isn't common and isn't Leah here). I remember Leah's
Betty Foy where she had a regular setback post and the reach forward she
wanted. The Betty seat tube angle is 72d, while the Platy has an even more
shallow 71.5. That geometry difference alone accounts for about 6-7mm more
setback, relative to the center BB. She obviously doesn't need even more
setback. I also recall Leah in her riding stories how she tended to stand
while climbing. What does that do ? It places you more forward into the
"sweet spot" of utilizing the core(strongest) muscles. It's literally like
dancing on the pedals, "light on your feet" kind of feeling, where you feel
perfectly balanced over the bb where you're strongest. Here it's easy to
bend up and down and all around. Being too far back or forward you just
can't dance and you're off-center balance. Try it for yourself. That same
balancing point can be experienced while seated by moving your body forward
relative to the center BB. Where exactly that is varies for everyone, so do
experiment.

If the proper center point and relative reach forward reach isn't
achievable on a given frame then that frame is not a good fit to begin with
no matter how pretty it may be. Having wayback bars and shallow head tube
angles on Riv's doesn't help any as you have converging seat and head
angles, the more you raise the bars the closer they get, dramatically. Bike
fitting isn't mysterious or difficult and it certainly doesn't help to just
ignore it and pretend it doesn't matter. Have some fun with it if you will
!

Once she gets into a better position she won't have to lament over how and
who can enlarge the seat tube as she already has a regular 26.8 post. I
can't recall if it's a Nitto or Kalloy but if it slips there are ways of
adding grip-tion to the part that slips.

It's a nice day for a ride :)

Re: [RBW] Bike Makeover Thread