Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 12:46 -0700, cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 21, 12:16 pm, Steve Palincsar palin...@his.com wrote: On Thu, 2010-10-21 at 10:07 -0700, cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: Thinking about converting my 8 speed to 9 as I like the cassette options w/ 34T cogs that it offers. 9 speed seems to be pretty proved and I do use index shifting. Decisions, decisions.. That's one of the easiest upgrade decisions you'll ever make. Nothing to it besides replacing shifters, cassette and chain. Just do it. Downside is I have some real nice XTR Ti cassettes in 8spd on different wheelsets. Maybe when I grind 'em down to nubs some day... The obvious time for an upgrade is when you need to replace the chain and cassette anyway. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Thu, Oct 21, 2010 at 12:46 PM, cyclotour...@gmail.com cyclotour...@gmail.com wrote: Downside is I have some real nice XTR Ti cassettes in 8spd on different wheelsets. Maybe when I grind 'em down to nubs some day... Well. Let me help you out. Go ahead and send those out-dated XTR 8speed ti cassettes to me and I'll do that work for you. -- John Speare Spokane, WA USA http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
on 10/19/10 8:26 AM, Peter Pesce at petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I can't say I understand the need for this either? I must be missing something - what does this stuff do that low end Shimano wouldn't do? I can understand Riv selling low-end thumb shifters, because there's a big leap from $16 to $150+ for DuraAce/Thumbies. But a low end Alivio or something rear derailer can be had for under 30 bucks. The issue with modern derailleurs is not that they don't work well out of the box. They all shift well. The better stuff tends to shift well _longer_. The Alivio works ok, but if Microshift brings out an inexpensive derailleur which has been designed to withstand more frequent, regular use, then the comparison is not entirely appropriate. Forging rather than stamping, quality of bushings, tolerance of manufacture are what differentiate Alivio from DuraAce. Everytime you shift, there's a pretty good torque on the cage and body. Cheaper bits wear faster. So, if the inexpensive derailleur which had the durability of an upper end model would be a good thing. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - Send them here - http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines I threw one leg over my battle-scarred all-terrain stump-jumper and rode several miles to work. I'd sprayed it with some cheap gold paint so it wouldn't look nice. Locked my bike to a radiator, because you never knew, and went in. -- Neal Stephenson, Zodiac -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide part two
I've never worn out a rear derailleur, although I have had to replace jockey pulleys. Classic Campagnolo derailleurs, with bronze bushings, will last for decades (I have a 1972 rear der that I'm still using). Modern indexed systems have less tolerance for wear and may not last as long, but kept reasonably clean and lubes they should have a long lifetime. —Eric N On Oct 20, 2010, at 2:28 PM, doug peterson dougpn...@cox.net wrote: All this talk about longevity me thinking: How long does a rear derailer last? Since the RD gets used the most, is hanging in the breeze, and has constantly moving parts, it should wear out sooner than anything else (excepting tires brakes). The RD on my Atlantis is the original from early '03. The logos are long gone but the invoice lists it as Deore Silver and Riv charged $45 for it as part of the build, if that gives a clue to the grade. It's gone at least 30k miles, mostly in a dry climate. It has been drenched and gotten filthy many times though. Maintenance consists of blowing it out with Tri-Flow once or twice a year. It still seems to work fine. Bike is 8 speed friction. Do you guys in wet or dusty climates find derailers wear to the point of poor shifting? I realize it's going to be a function of climate, cleanliness, maintenance and mileage, but I can't recall ever actually wearing one out. And I've worn out plenty of cogs, chains, and chainrings, so it's not any maintenance magic on my part. Thoughts? dougP On Oct 20, 12:28 pm, Michael_S mikeybi...@rocketmail.com wrote: Grant just posted a follow up post with the installation of the aforementioned Microshift groupo on his Hilsen. They look nice from afar... the key question as Jim mentions... will they still work good a couple of years down the road/trail. Like everything testing and use will tell us more about their potential longevity.http://www.rivbike.com/blogs/news_post/298 ~Mike~ On Oct 20, 11:14 am, CycloFiend cyclofi...@earthlink.net wrote: on 10/19/10 8:26 AM, Peter Pesce at petepe...@gmail.com wrote: I can't say I understand the need for this either? I must be missing something - what does this stuff do that low end Shimano wouldn't do? I can understand Riv selling low-end thumb shifters, because there's a big leap from $16 to $150+ for DuraAce/Thumbies. But a low end Alivio or something rear derailer can be had for under 30 bucks. The issue with modern derailleurs is not that they don't work well out of the box. They all shift well. The better stuff tends to shift well _longer_. The Alivio works ok, but if Microshift brings out an inexpensive derailleur which has been designed to withstand more frequent, regular use, then the comparison is not entirely appropriate. Forging rather than stamping, quality of bushings, tolerance of manufacture are what differentiate Alivio from DuraAce. Everytime you shift, there's a pretty good torque on the cage and body. Cheaper bits wear faster. So, if the inexpensive derailleur which had the durability of an upper end model would be a good thing. - Jim -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries -http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes Your Photos are needed! - Send them here -http://www.cyclofiend.com/guidelines I threw one leg over my battle-scarred all-terrain stump-jumper and rode several miles to work. I'd sprayed it with some cheap gold paint so it wouldn't look nice. Locked my bike to a radiator, because you never knew, and went in. -- Neal Stephenson, Zodiac- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide part two
on 10/20/10 2:28 PM, doug peterson at dougpn...@cox.net wrote: All this talk about longevity me thinking: How long does a rear derailer last? I've worn out a couple - an old Deer Head Deore which was the original on my '83 Montare mtb. Towards the end, you could actually feel the slop as you shifted (friction thumbies). It wouldn't reliably hold in the lowest (6 speed) sprocket and was iffy shifting down to the highest gear (yep, new cables/housing). That bike saw a lot of hours and learning. The other was an XT (silver/black circa '93). That was on another mtb and it just tended not to shift after a while. Both of those were long cage. Maybe 6 years of pretty hard, off-road use under all kinds of conditions. I've got road derailleurs which keep plugging along, but most were 600/Ultegra or higher. And now I put more miles on derailleur-less systems... ;^) - J -- Jim Edgar cyclofi...@earthlink.net Cyclofiend Bicycle Photo Galleries - http://www.cyclofiend.com Current Classics - Cross Bikes Singlespeed - Working Bikes -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 04:48 -0700, Johnny Alien wrote: I think Microshift makes the dérailleurs and shifters that Nashbar and others rebadge. This is true. I have not heard fantastic things I am a little shocked they will be carrying them. I guess the real question is, how much of the negative chat is due to prejudice and how much to actual poor performance? -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:00 AM, MKahrl mkah...@gmail.com wrote: Most of the discussion on other forums about Microshift centers on how well the brifters work and how well the rear derailers work with other manufacturer's brifters. From RBW's point of view (and mine) these concerns are meaningless since we use friction shifters. I have not found anything to indicate that the derailers themselves don't shift just as crisply as any other of any price group on the market. And at least from a cosmetic standpoint the all silver microshift ones look, for the world like a ultegra 6500rd. I dunno how well they last but I suspect, like a lot of things, they are substantially better than average. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
As long as I can use index bar-end shifters in 9 rear and friction front and use a largest cog of 34T, I don't care what brand it says on the derailleur. On Oct 19, 2010, at 7:04 AM, Seth Vidal wrote: On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 10:00 AM, MKahrl mkah...@gmail.com wrote: Most of the discussion on other forums about Microshift centers on how well the brifters work and how well the rear derailers work with other manufacturer's brifters. From RBW's point of view (and mine) these concerns are meaningless since we use friction shifters. I have not found anything to indicate that the derailers themselves don't shift just as crisply as any other of any price group on the market. And at least from a cosmetic standpoint the all silver microshift ones look, for the world like a ultegra 6500rd. I dunno how well they last but I suspect, like a lot of things, they are substantially better than average. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 07:18 -0700, James Warren wrote: As long as I can use index bar-end shifters in 9 rear and friction front and use a largest cog of 34T, I don't care what brand it says on the derailleur. And if Shimano is no longer interested in supporting 9 speed shifters, it's nice there's someone who is. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 11:06 -0700, Peter Pesce wrote: Also, If their philosophy is to provide things that otherwise wouldn't be available if they didn't make them, which I think is an awesome mission statement, I don't see where cheap derailers fit in. The work will always be full of them. Now that everybody's moving to 10 speed or higher, with even thinner chains (and in the case of Shimano, different cable pull for the RD) you can't count on a handy supply of new 9-speed compatible derailleurs or shifters. If you don't care to go to 10, that's a non-trivial thing. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 3:00 PM, bfd bfd...@gmail.com wrote: On Oct 19, 10:03 am, Johnny Alien johnnyal...@verizon.net wrote: I'm sure it's fine but I personally don't see the need to go super cheap on a component that I am buying for a $1500 + frame. Seems a little backwards. That's always been Grant/Riv's thing, buy a $3K+ custom frame then put on zip ties or use low end components like those $24 single pivot brakes with no q/r he use to sell. Yes, it worked (barely), but sure didn't look good. Further, using things like non-aero brakes with cables hanging out never made any sense as they made his nice frames look like old 10 speed bikes that use to sell for $200. Good Luck! I hate to say this - but bfd - it feels like either: 1. you have an ax to grind or 2. you're intentionally trolling this mailing list. In either case I'd appreciate it if you would stop. -sv -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, Oct 19, 2010 at 12:04 PM, Beth H periwinkle...@yahoo.com wrote: Here's a little more reality for you: I spoke with a very knowledgable wholsale rep yesterday who told me that we should expect to see all things 8-speed fade away in perhaps two to three years. This is because of Mountain 10 drivetrains (10 x 2 or 10 x 3), which use basically the same components that road 10-speed systems do and are therefore easier to mass-produce for big companies like SRAM and Shimano. He had spoken with folks at both Shimano and SRAM during the Interbike show and apparently they hinted at this reality coming down the line. Said rep was told that continued support for 8-speed drivetrains was not as profitable because it required companies to produce two different kinds of chaincs and cassette cogs. Basing both road and mountain drivetrains on a 10-speed system, with its narrower chains and thinner cassette cogs, would simplify production quicky. (It would also mean more sales, since these parts wear out sooner; though the SRAM technician refused to comment on that and guy from Shimano would only hint at it in the vaguest language.) Based on discussions I had two years ago when Shimano stopped making 5- speed freewheels and the only remaining choices were Sunrace (ick) and IRD (decent, but expensive), I would say that this estimate bears more than a shred of truth. If you like 8-speed, this would be a good time to look for sales. Don't forget that you'll want to stock up on 8-speed compatible chains, too, since these will eventually fade like cassettes (though not quite as quickly). As for me, I've got a sizable stash of refurbished five- and six-speed freewheels that will fit on my Phil hubs... Beth I'm not paranoid, just pragmatic Hamon -- I see this as already-pretty-much the case: you can find 8 speed chains and cassettes which are ok and I expect them to be around for many years; there are just too many bikes out there with 8 speed drivetrains, and low-end bikes still ship with new 8 speed Shimano stuff. But the bummer is finding good quality 8-speed stuff: shifters and cassettes mainly. The XTR cassettes dried up at the LBS's a long time ago. You can still get them on ebay, but they are pricey. I'm ok with SRAM 8 spd but they're no XTR. Shifting is a killer already: good luck finding 8-spd DT shifters or good STI systems under $100. That's a bummer. I'm all for friction but for CX or mountain biking with drop bars, I like STI. And I like indexed DT shifters... I suppose I'll switch to 9 speeds in a couple years when my current stock of STI stuff finally blows up for good. -- John Speare Spokane, WA USA http://cyclingspokane.blogspot.com/ -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 12:42 -0700, Garth wrote: 7 speed cassette stuff became hard to find, As far as I know, every gearing combination originally available for 7 speed cassettes is still available, although it's true the HG70s have been discontinued. 7 is more widely available than 8: in the wide range cassettes, all you can find in 8 speed now start with 11 teeth. The 12-x have all been discontinued. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
Re: [RBW] Re: worlds collide
On Tue, 2010-10-19 at 12:00 -0700, bfd wrote: That's always been Grant/Riv's thing, buy a $3K+ custom frame then put on zip ties or use low end components like those $24 single pivot brakes with no q/r he use to sell. I remember those brakes. They had plenty of reach and clearance, and this was at a time when there were very few long reach side pull brakes available. -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups RBW Owners Bunch group. To post to this group, send email to rbw-owners-bu...@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to rbw-owners-bunch+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/rbw-owners-bunch?hl=en.
