Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[James Harrison]

-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1

As many have noted - the best way to go about this is usually at the
filesystem block level, or driver level. Ceph represents a relatively
new approach - there are plenty of 'odd' filesystems via FUSE, and
rolling your own is not a particularly monumental task, and avoids
mucky hacks.

Until you get above 100 or so terabytes, though, I'd just put this in
a single box and use ZFS - it's not that complex. If you want
redundancy, pair up two boxes and rsync them.

Cheers,
James Harrison

On 01/07/2013 20:03, Bill Putney wrote:
> One could imagine a virtual delimiter based on position. If the
> first two characters of a file name within a specific directory
> were defined as the subdirectory part and the remainder as the file
> name within the subdirectory. I.e., 4350978.wav would be for
> instance ./43/50978.wav really.
> 
> Like I said, I don't know of a hack like that.
> 
> Bill
> 
> On Jul 1, 2013, at 11:30, Cowboy  wrote:
> 
>> On Monday 01 July 2013 02:24:55 pm Bill Putney wrote:
>>> I don't know of a linux hack that would allow directory
>>> partitioning by leading character string without a delimiter.
>> 
>> How would you delimit without a delimiter ?
>> 
>> -- Cowboy
>> 
>> http://cowboy.cwf1.com
>> 
>> "Whom are you?" said he, for he had been to night school. --
>> George Ade
>> 
>> ___ Rivendell-dev
>> mailing list Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org 
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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Rob Landry]

It doesn't need to be done in Rivendell. It should be straightforward to 
have a script scan the Rivendell CART and CUTS tables regularly, compare 
each record with the corresponding .wav file, and update a CART chunk in 
the latter accordingly.



Rob

On Mon, 1 Jul 2013, Andy Sayler wrote:



On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:58 AM, drew Roberts  wrote:
  It is also possible to put metadata in wav files. (RD does not
  do it, but it
  can be done.)


Well that may be the better RD feature request then: support for
wav-embedded meta data. Compression can always be added at the file system
level (using ntfs, zfs, btrfs, etc), but metadata tends to be more
file-specific.



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Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Bill Putney]

One could imagine a virtual delimiter based on position. If the first two 
characters of a file name within a specific directory were defined as the 
subdirectory part and the remainder as the file name within the subdirectory. 
I.e., 4350978.wav would be for instance ./43/50978.wav really. 

Like I said, I don't know of a hack like that. 

Bill

On Jul 1, 2013, at 11:30, Cowboy  wrote:

> On Monday 01 July 2013 02:24:55 pm Bill Putney wrote:
>> I don't know of a linux hack that would allow directory partitioning by 
>> leading character string without a delimiter.
> 
> How would you delimit without a delimiter ?
> 
> -- 
> Cowboy
> 
> http://cowboy.cwf1.com
> 
> "Whom are you?" said he, for he had been to night school.
>-- George Ade
> 
> ___
> Rivendell-dev mailing list
> Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[drew Roberts]

On Monday 01 July 2013 13:26:38 Alessio Elmi wrote:
> I know there are very few tool to work with it, but Rivendell stores
> broadcast wave file. BWF have metadata inside. I don't know if it's enough
> for you though...

Are you sure about that? I seem to remember Riv stripping the metadat out of 
BWF wav files on import but it has been a long time and memory may be playing 
tricks.


drew
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Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Andy Sayler]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 12:24 PM, Bill Putney  wrote:

>
> I wonder how you'd convert to FLAC and imbed the metadata from they
> library you have. You'd have to get the data out of the RD database and put
> it in the FLAC header? That's a big conversion job on it's own. I think RD
> will let you have chart-chunk metadata in sound files, it just won't do
> anything with it. I don't know what if any badness would accrue if you did
> a file by file header update. I don't think RD keeps track of a checksum of
> the sound files. So long as you don't change the length of the audio
> payload. The files would probably end up in different inodes when you wrote
> them back but I don't think RD cares about that either.
>

If flac support were ever added, conversion wouldn't be a big deal. Between
the Rivendell export tools and/or some raw SQL queries/scripting, and the
standard flac tool set, I'm sure we could hack together a conversion tool
without too much trouble.


> RD seems to want all the audio files in one flat directory. While you can
> do symbolic links to other volumes as subdirectories under /var/snd and
> individual audio files could live on other subdirectories symbolically
> linked back into /var/snd there isn't a way to divide it out systematically.
>
> Right now you have a group named "music" (for instance) and it has a file
> number range. When you rip a CD RD tries to use the next available file
> number in that range. Hypothetically, RD could be changed so that the range
> could include a volume name prefix. All the audio file references in RD
> would have to change to reflect that change or at least the database would
> have to return the full (or a /var/snd relative) path name for each audio
> cut. You could keep every audio file name unique within RD and have
> everything do a table look up to find the path for that file name. That
> would include the subdirectory.
>
> I don't know of a linux hack that would allow directory partitioning by
> leading character string without a delimiter. I suppose no one ever thought
> there'd be a use for it.
>

There are a lot of existing systems out there for making multiple back-end
stores look like a single location. From RAID0 and JBOD systems to LVM to
modern distributed files systems like Ceph, there are a lot of ways to
solve the "many discreet storage devises to single logical partition"
problem. If you really wanted to roll your own, you could whip together a
FUSE file-system that spread Rivendell files with their number-based names
across a multitude of directories or devices while still presenting a flat
front-end to Rivendell itself. But there's really no need to write you own
code with so many off the shelf solutions available.

Compression and multi-device mappings can all be handled at the file-system
level. It's the per-file metadata that would really require implicit
Rivendell support.
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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Oliver Cooper]

Pretty much clean..

All I've done is install lame/lame-devel, compiled and installed touchscreen 
drivers, compiled and installed oddcast. Not touched anything serious regarding 
Rivendell itself.

Importing files was working fine before which is why it makes so little sense 
to me.

I have allowed the system to install updates but I can't think of a single 
update that would affect all file formats like I'm seeing.

Ollie



From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]

Sent: 01 July 2013 19:33

To: Oliver Cooper

Cc: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org

Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error









So strange.. and I don't know where it wants files located in.. did you do a 
fresh rivendell appliance installation or did you edit anything?

I mean.. after you installed the system.. did you touch anything special?







2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 





Not found :/







From:
alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]


Sent: 01 July 2013 18:22





To: Oliver Cooper

Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error















Well if you use the Rivendell Appliance should be all set up, no need to change 
anything.

If you type in the broweser
http://localhost/rd-bin/listcarts.html can you operate?





2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>

> I'm using the Rivendell Appliance which is CentOS 5 (5.9). As far as I can 
> see, it doesn't have that repo configured right now - it does have a 
> Paravel-Broadcast repo configured.

>

> Sorry, I'm not entirely familiar with setuid - showing my ineptness for linux 
> a bit there. What does that do and how would I go about doing it?

>

> Thanks,

> Ollie

>

> 

> From:
alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]

> Sent: 01 July 2013 17:30

>

> To: Oliver Cooper

> Cc:
rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org

> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

>

> Did you use Alban's Tryphon repo? Which Linux distro?

> An other tip: try to setuid rdxport.cgi with 6775.

>

> Alessio

>

>

> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>>

>> Same problem still. :(

>>

>> I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as it's 
>> claiming a converter error).

>>

>> Ollie

>>

>> 

>> From:
alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]

>> Sent: 01 July 2013 13:15

>> To: Oliver Cooper

>>

>> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

>>

>> I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create "red 
>> empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..

>> I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and rivendell 
>> group (from rd.conf) different?

>>

>> Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in 
>> user/group. i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and 
>> change chown /var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*

>> Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting error) I 
>> don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means it *is* a 
>> permission problem and we should investigate that path more deeply.

>>

>> Alessio

>>

>>

>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>>>

>>> Hi,

>>>

>>> Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd and 
>>> tried a plain .wav file.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin pages 
>>> that other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios (converter 
>>> error: OK), the users have been unable to delete carts – I am still able to 
>>> delete, it’s just importing the
 audio that fails.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Ollie.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> From:
alessio.e...@gmail.com [mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Alessio Elmi

>>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM

>>> To: Oliver Cooper

>>> Cc:
rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org

>>> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess was 
>>> trying to import a plain wav file.

>>>

>>> If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.

>>>

>>> - Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that user 
>>> should be in audio group etc)

>>>

>>> - Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> Alessio

>>>

>>>

>>>

>>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>>>

>>> Hi,

>>>

>>> Struggling at the moment.

>>>

>>> Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary 
>>> encoders earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using 
>>> either rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this 
>>> morning using rdimport and it spews out the
 following.

>>>

>>>  Importing file "10.mp3" to cart
060105 ...  Audio Converter Error: Unsupported Format, skipping 1

Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Alessio Elmi]

So strange.. and I don't know where it wants files located in.. did you do
a fresh rivendell appliance installation or did you edit anything?
I mean.. after you installed the system.. did you touch anything special?


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>  Not found :/
>  --
> *From:* alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of
> Alessio Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* 01 July 2013 18:22
>
> *To:* Oliver Cooper
> *Subject:* Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>
>   Well if you use the Rivendell Appliance should be all set up, no need
> to change anything.
> If you type in the broweser http://localhost/rd-bin/listcarts.html can
> you operate?
>
>
> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
> >
> > I'm using the Rivendell Appliance which is CentOS 5 (5.9). As far as I
> can see, it doesn't have that repo configured right now - it does have a
> Paravel-Broadcast repo configured.
> >
> > Sorry, I'm not entirely familiar with setuid - showing my ineptness for
> linux a bit there. What does that do and how would I go about doing it?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Ollie
> >
> > 
> > From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of
> Alessio Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
> > Sent: 01 July 2013 17:30
> >
> > To: Oliver Cooper
> > Cc: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> > Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
> >
> > Did you use Alban's Tryphon repo? Which Linux distro?
> > An other tip: try to setuid rdxport.cgi with 6775.
> >
> > Alessio
> >
> >
> > 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
> >>
> >> Same problem still. :(
> >>
> >> I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as
> it's claiming a converter error).
> >>
> >> Ollie
> >>
> >> 
> >> From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of
> Alessio Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
> >> Sent: 01 July 2013 13:15
> >> To: Oliver Cooper
> >>
> >> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
> >>
> >> I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create
> "red empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..
> >> I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and
> rivendell group (from rd.conf) different?
> >>
> >> Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in
> user/group. i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and
> change chown /var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*
> >> Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting
> error) I don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means
> it *is* a permission problem and we should investigate that path more
> deeply.
> >>
> >> Alessio
> >>
> >>
> >> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd
> and tried a plain .wav file.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin
> pages that other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios
> (converter error: OK), the users have been unable to delete carts – I am
> still able to delete, it’s just importing the audio that fails.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Ollie.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] On
> Behalf Of Alessio Elmi
> >>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM
> >>> To: Oliver Cooper
> >>> Cc: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> >>> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess
> was trying to import a plain wav file.
> >>>
> >>> If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
> >>>
> >>> - Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that
> user should be in audio group etc)
> >>>
> >>> - Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Alessio
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
> >>>
> >>> Hi,
> >>>
> >>> Struggling at the moment.
> >>>
> >>> Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary
> encoders earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using
> either rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this
> morning using rdimport and it spews out the following.
> >>>
> >>>  Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error:
> Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...
> >>>
> >>> Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.
> >>>
> >>> Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I
> have also tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly
> previously and I've tried importing a wav file. Same error.
> >>>
> >>> I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than
> importing audio.
> >>>
> >>> The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require
> updating. Running Rivendell 2.5.1.
> >>>
> >>> The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddc

Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Cowboy]

On Monday 01 July 2013 02:24:55 pm Bill Putney wrote:
> I don't know of a linux hack that would allow directory partitioning by 
> leading character string without a delimiter.

 How would you delimit without a delimiter ?

-- 
Cowboy

http://cowboy.cwf1.com

"Whom are you?" said he, for he had been to night school.
-- George Ade

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Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Bill Putney]

Andy,

I wonder how you'd convert to FLAC and imbed the metadata from they 
library you have. You'd have to get the data out of the RD database and 
put it in the FLAC header? That's a big conversion job on it's own. I 
think RD will let you have chart-chunk metadata in sound files, it just 
won't do anything with it. I don't know what if any badness would accrue 
if you did a file by file header update. I don't think RD keeps track of 
a checksum of the sound files. So long as you don't change the length of 
the audio payload. The files would probably end up in different inodes 
when you wrote them back but I don't think RD cares about that either.


RD seems to want all the audio files in one flat directory. While you 
can do symbolic links to other volumes as subdirectories under /var/snd 
and individual audio files could live on other subdirectories 
symbolically linked back into /var/snd there isn't a way to divide it 
out systematically.


Right now you have a group named "music" (for instance) and it has a 
file number range. When you rip a CD RD tries to use the next available 
file number in that range. Hypothetically, RD could be changed so that 
the range could include a volume name prefix. All the audio file 
references in RD would have to change to reflect that change or at least 
the database would have to return the full (or a /var/snd relative) path 
name for each audio cut. You could keep every audio file name unique 
within RD and have everything do a table look up to find the path for 
that file name. That would include the subdirectory.


I don't know of a linux hack that would allow directory partitioning by 
leading character string without a delimiter. I suppose no one ever 
thought there'd be a use for it.


Bill

On 7/1/13 10:53 AM, Andy Sayler wrote:
On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Bill Putney > wrote:



Andy,

I'm curious, what's on those 300,000 tracks? We have a pretty
eclectic music mix here. Everything from Roma and Tribal to
Hip-hop and Classical. With 25,000 cuts there's still a good
percentage of those cuts that have never been played. 12 TB is
about 18,460 hours of wav audio. You can play 24 hours a day for
about 2 years before you have to replay a piece of music. You'll
have about 3 years of music before the existing disk runs out.
With a little housekeeping that could last you for another couple
of years.


We're a freeform station and we've ripped all of our existing 
collections (CDs in every genre over the span of about 25 years) as 
well all new incoming CDs. We do curate the collection (with an 
approximately 50% reject rate), but since we're a freeform station, we 
keep pretty much anything of significance in any genre. It's less 
about what gets played and more about what somebody might want to play 
someday.


An easier to implement solution might be to ask to be able to have
/var/snd be able to be split across multiple volumes. Maybe by
track range or by group. Then you could add another volume of 16TB
on an external USB3 drive array as a second volume. It's one more
indirection from the track name in the data base or if the volumes
were all sub-directories of /var/snd a volume prefix could be
added to the track number in the db.

I agree that RD support for libraries spread across multiple 
directories might be nice. Although it would cause issues in terms of 
managing which directory new music goes to. Most file systems, etc 
allow some form of aggregation for multiple back-end disks into a 
single "virtual" front-end partition, so there are ways to do that 
without requiring native RD support. But like I said, the issue is 
more one of metadata and widely usebale format compatibility than one 
of pure storage space.




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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Andy Sayler]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:58 AM, drew Roberts  wrote:

> It is also possible to put metadata in wav files. (RD does not do it, but
> it
> can be done.)
>

Well that may be the better RD feature request then: support for
wav-embedded meta data. Compression can always be added at the file system
level (using ntfs, zfs, btrfs, etc), but metadata tends to be more
file-specific.
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Re: [RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Andy Sayler]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 10:44 AM, Bill Putney  wrote:

>
> Andy,
>
> I'm curious, what's on those 300,000 tracks? We have a pretty eclectic
> music mix here. Everything from Roma and Tribal to Hip-hop and Classical.
> With 25,000 cuts there's still a good percentage of those cuts that have
> never been played. 12 TB is about 18,460 hours of wav audio. You can play
> 24 hours a day for about 2 years before you have to replay a piece of
> music. You'll have about 3 years of music before the existing disk runs
> out. With a little housekeeping that could last you for another couple of
> years.
>

We're a freeform station and we've ripped all of our existing collections
(CDs in every genre over the span of about 25 years) as well all new
incoming CDs. We do curate the collection (with an approximately 50% reject
rate), but since we're a freeform station, we keep pretty much anything of
significance in any genre. It's less about what gets played and more about
what somebody might want to play someday.


> An easier to implement solution might be to ask to be able to have
> /var/snd be able to be split across multiple volumes. Maybe by track range
> or by group. Then you could add another volume of 16TB on an external USB3
> drive array as a second volume. It's one more indirection from the track
> name in the data base or if the volumes were all sub-directories of
> /var/snd a volume prefix could be added to the track number in the db.
>

I agree that RD support for libraries spread across multiple directories
might be nice. Although it would cause issues in terms of managing which
directory new music goes to. Most file systems, etc allow some form of
aggregation for multiple back-end disks into a single "virtual" front-end
partition, so there are ways to do that without requiring native RD
support. But like I said, the issue is more one of metadata and widely
usebale format compatibility than one of pure storage space.
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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Oliver Cooper]

Not found :/

From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 July 2013 18:22
To: Oliver Cooper
Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

Well if you use the Rivendell Appliance should be all set up, no need to change 
anything.
If you type in the broweser http://localhost/rd-bin/listcarts.html can you 
operate?


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
>
> I'm using the Rivendell Appliance which is CentOS 5 (5.9). As far as I can 
> see, it doesn't have that repo configured right now - it does have a 
> Paravel-Broadcast repo configured.
>
> Sorry, I'm not entirely familiar with setuid - showing my ineptness for linux 
> a bit there. What does that do and how would I go about doing it?
>
> Thanks,
> Ollie
>
> 
> From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
> [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio 
> Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
> Sent: 01 July 2013 17:30
>
> To: Oliver Cooper
> Cc: 
> rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>
> Did you use Alban's Tryphon repo? Which Linux distro?
> An other tip: try to setuid rdxport.cgi with 6775.
>
> Alessio
>
>
> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
> mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
>>
>> Same problem still. :(
>>
>> I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as it's 
>> claiming a converter error).
>>
>> Ollie
>>
>> 
>> From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
>> [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio 
>> Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
>> Sent: 01 July 2013 13:15
>> To: Oliver Cooper
>>
>> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>>
>> I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create "red 
>> empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..
>> I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and rivendell 
>> group (from rd.conf) different?
>>
>> Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in 
>> user/group. i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and 
>> change chown /var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*
>> Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting error) I 
>> don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means it *is* a 
>> permission problem and we should investigate that path more deeply.
>>
>> Alessio
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
>> mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd and 
>>> tried a plain .wav file.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin pages 
>>> that other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios (converter 
>>> error: OK), the users have been unable to delete carts – I am still able to 
>>> delete, it’s just importing the audio that fails.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Ollie.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
>>> [mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
>>> Alessio Elmi
>>> Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM
>>> To: Oliver Cooper
>>> Cc: 
>>> rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
>>> Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess was 
>>> trying to import a plain wav file.
>>>
>>> If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
>>>
>>> - Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that user 
>>> should be in audio group etc)
>>>
>>> - Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Alessio
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
>>> mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
>>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> Struggling at the moment.
>>>
>>> Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary 
>>> encoders earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using 
>>> either rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this 
>>> morning using rdimport and it spews out the following.
>>>
>>>  Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error: 
>>> Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...
>>>
>>> Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.
>>>
>>> Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have 
>>> also tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and 
>>> I've tried importing a wav file. Same error.
>>>
>>> I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than 
>>> importing audio.
>>>
>>> The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require 

Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Alessio Elmi]

I didn't reply to all.

I know there are very few tool to work with it, but Rivendell stores
broadcast wave file. BWF have metadata inside. I don't know if it's enough
for you though...


2013/7/1 Andy Sayler 

>
> On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, James Harrison 
> wrote:
>
>> Seriously though, storage is cheap. I have 16TB in RAID6+1 at home just
>> for TV/movies. Even the smallest radio stations should be able to throw
>> together a RAID1/10/6 array of a few terabytes on a budget.
>>
>
> Hi James,
>
> We currently use several 16TB (3TB x 8 on RAID6) arrays to store a little
> over 12TB (~300,000 tracks) of music. We are to the point where we will
> have that filled up in the next year or two given our current music intake
> rates. We're looking at compression options to buy us some time until we
> can move to 6TB drives and double each array's capacity.
>
> That said, our main reason to want FLAC on the back-end isn't compression,
> it's metadata redundancy. Currently, we're in the situation of having a
> very large music library with several backups and mirrors that is
> completely dependent on a single functioning SQL database. With FLAC, we
> could make sure each track is tagged with its own metadata, so even if the
> RD database ever failed us or got corrupted, we'd still be bale to fall
> back on the per-track metadata and rebuild the DB from that. We keep
> backups of the SQL DB, but it's always a little scary to have a
> single-point-of-failure between you and a useless 300,000 track music
> library. Keeping tracks tagged with metadata would also avoid locking us
> into Rivendell long term (not that we don't love RD) and would allow us to
> access our music store from programs other than RD that have no knowledge
> of the RD database (for production or browsing, etc).
>
> We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our
> reason's for wanting it.
>
> Cheers,
> Andy Sayler
> WMFO Medford
>
> ___
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> Rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
> http://caspian.paravelsystems.com/mailman/listinfo/rivendell-dev
>
>
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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[drew Roberts]

On Monday 01 July 2013 11:54:11 Andy Sayler wrote:
> We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our
> reason's for wanting it.

It is also possible to put metadata in wav files. (RD does not do it, but it 
can be done.)

drew
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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Oliver Cooper]

I'm using the Rivendell Appliance which is CentOS 5 (5.9). As far as I can see, 
it doesn't have that repo configured right now - it does have a 
Paravel-Broadcast repo configured.

Sorry, I'm not entirely familiar with setuid - showing my ineptness for linux a 
bit there. What does that do and how would I go about doing it?

Thanks,
Ollie


From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 July 2013 17:30
To: Oliver Cooper
Cc: rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

Did you use Alban's Tryphon repo? Which Linux distro?
An other tip: try to setuid rdxport.cgi with 6775.

Alessio


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
Same problem still. :(

I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as it's 
claiming a converter error).

Ollie


From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
[alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio 
Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 July 2013 13:15
To: Oliver Cooper

Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create "red 
empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..
I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and rivendell 
group (from rd.conf) different?

Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in user/group. 
i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and change chown 
/var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*
Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting error) I 
don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means it *is* a 
permission problem and we should investigate that path more deeply.

Alessio


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
Hi,
Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd and 
tried a plain .wav file.

Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin pages that 
other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios (converter error: OK), 
the users have been unable to delete carts – I am still able to delete, it’s 
just importing the audio that fails.

Ollie.


From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
[mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
Alessio Elmi
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM
To: Oliver Cooper
Cc: 
rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess was 
trying to import a plain wav file.
If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
- Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that user 
should be in audio group etc)
- Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.

Alessio

2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
Hi,

Struggling at the moment.

Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary encoders 
earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using either 
rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this morning using 
rdimport and it spews out the following.

 Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error: 
Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...

Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.

Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have also 
tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and I've 
tried importing a wav file. Same error.

I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than importing 
audio.

The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require updating. 
Running Rivendell 2.5.1.

The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddcast (unable to 
locate a more recent edcast release).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Ollie Cooper



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[RDD] Fwd: Re: FLAC support

[Bill Putney]

Oops again.

 Original Message 
Subject:Re: [RDD] FLAC support
Date:   Mon, 01 Jul 2013 09:40:20 -0700
From:   Bill Putney 
To: Andy Sayler 



Andy,

I'm curious, what's on those 300,000 tracks? We have a pretty eclectic 
music mix here. Everything from Roma and Tribal to Hip-hop and 
Classical. With 25,000 cuts there's still a good percentage of those 
cuts that have never been played. 12 TB is about 18,460 hours of wav 
audio. You can play 24 hours a day for about 2 years before you have to 
replay a piece of music. You'll have about 3 years of music before the 
existing disk runs out. With a little housekeeping that could last you 
for another couple of years.


An easier to implement solution might be to ask to be able to have 
/var/snd be able to be split across multiple volumes. Maybe by track 
range or by group. Then you could add another volume of 16TB on an 
external USB3 drive array as a second volume. It's one more indirection 
from the track name in the data base or if the volumes were all 
sub-directories of /var/snd a volume prefix could be added to the track 
number in the db.


Bill

On 7/1/13 8:54 AM, Andy Sayler wrote:


On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, James Harrison 
mailto:ja...@talkunafraid.co.uk>> wrote:


Seriously though, storage is cheap. I have 16TB in RAID6+1 at home
just
for TV/movies. Even the smallest radio stations should be able to
throw
together a RAID1/10/6 array of a few terabytes on a budget.


Hi James,

We currently use several 16TB (3TB x 8 on RAID6) arrays to store a 
little over 12TB (~300,000 tracks) of music. We are to the point where 
we will have that filled up in the next year or two given our current 
music intake rates. We're looking at compression options to buy us 
some time until we can move to 6TB drives and double each array's 
capacity.


That said, our main reason to want FLAC on the back-end isn't 
compression, it's metadata redundancy. Currently, we're in the 
situation of having a very large music library with several backups 
and mirrors that is completely dependent on a single functioning SQL 
database. With FLAC, we could make sure each track is tagged with its 
own metadata, so even if the RD database ever failed us or got 
corrupted, we'd still be bale to fall back on the per-track metadata 
and rebuild the DB from that. We keep backups of the SQL DB, but it's 
always a little scary to have a single-point-of-failure between you 
and a useless 300,000 track music library. Keeping tracks tagged with 
metadata would also avoid locking us into Rivendell long term (not 
that we don't love RD) and would allow us to access our music store 
from programs other than RD that have no knowledge of the RD database 
(for production or browsing, etc).


We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our 
reason's for wanting it.


Cheers,
Andy Sayler
WMFO Medford


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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Bill Putney]

Oops...

On 7/1/13 9:05 AM, Bill Putney wrote:
We have a 2TB RAID-Z1 array here at KPTZ. Storage went to about 1.2TB 
pretty early. That represents about 25,000 carts/cuts. We do a lot of 
1 and 2 hour locally produced talk and special interest programs here. 
Those programs only stay in the automation server as long as they are 
likely to be played. The original material is kept in off-line long 
term archival storage and taken out of the automation server. There is 
some creep but I think it's going to be a while before we get to 2TB.


We're using AV rated WD drives. They are intended to spin 24 x 7 and 
we've had the original set spinning for almost 3 years. One of the 
things that's hard on drives are starts. Since the server is hardly 
ever cold re-started the drives will probably last a long time. We 
have a backup server with a 3TB RAID-Z array we rsync every night with 
the automation system.


2TB drives are about the sweet spot now and they are in the $80 to 
$150 range depending on sales and promotions. A mirrored set (2TB) or 
a RAID-5 or RAID-Z1 set (4TB) will be in the $160 to $450 ball park. 
Fred probably gets more than that for an hour of programming time. ;)


Bill

On 7/1/13 8:30 AM, James Harrison wrote:

On 01/07/13 02:54, Max Goldstein, Operations Director wrote:

Hi all,

Sorry if this has come up before, but we're interested in moving our 
WAV

library to FLAC at some point for the space savings. Last I heard
Rivendell didn't support FLAC natively or something like that. Can
someone please clarify:

1. What is the status of using FLAC for cut encodings?
2. If the above answer is not full support, what needs to be done to 
get

there? How difficult would it be?
3. What are the thoughts of the Rivendell community on the priority of
supporting FLAC? (E.g. how often does the issue come up?)


It's come up a few times but the prevaling mood is largely "Storage is
cheap, audio is relatively small", even for WAV. It's a big rewrite of
the playout daemon to add support so with these combined - it's not
likely to happen.

Seriously though, storage is cheap. I have 16TB in RAID6+1 at home just
for TV/movies. Even the smallest radio stations should be able to throw
together a RAID1/10/6 array of a few terabytes on a budget.





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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Alessio Elmi]

Did you use Alban's Tryphon repo? Which Linux distro?
An other tip: try to setuid rdxport.cgi with 6775.

Alessio


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>  Same problem still. :(
>
> I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as
> it's claiming a converter error).
>
> Ollie
>
>  --
> *From:* alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of
> Alessio Elmi [alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
> *Sent:* 01 July 2013 13:15
> *To:* Oliver Cooper
>
> *Subject:* Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>
>   I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create
> "red empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..
> I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and
> rivendell group (from rd.conf) different?
>
>  Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in
> user/group. i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and
> change chown /var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*
> Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting error) I
> don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means it *is*
> a permission problem and we should investigate that path more deeply.
>
>  Alessio
>
>
> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd
>> and tried a plain .wav file.
>>
>>
>>
>> Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin pages
>> that other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios (converter
>> error: OK), the users have been unable to delete carts – I am still able to
>> delete, it’s just importing the audio that fails.
>>
>>
>>
>> Ollie.
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* alessio.e...@gmail.com [mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] *On
>> Behalf Of *Alessio Elmi
>> *Sent:* Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM
>> *To:* Oliver Cooper
>> *Cc:* rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
>> *Subject:* Re: [RDD] rdimport error
>>
>>
>>
>> At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess
>> was trying to import a plain wav file.
>>
>> If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
>>
>> - Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that
>> user should be in audio group etc)
>>
>> - Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.
>>
>>
>>
>> Alessio
>>
>>
>>
>> 2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
>>
>>  Hi,
>>
>> Struggling at the moment.
>>
>> Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary
>> encoders earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using
>> either rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this
>> morning using rdimport and it spews out the following.
>>
>> * Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error:
>> Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...
>>
>> *Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.
>>
>> Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have
>> also tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and
>> I've tried importing a wav file. Same error.
>>
>> I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than
>> importing audio.
>>
>> The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require
>> updating. Running Rivendell 2.5.1.
>>
>> The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddcast
>> (unable to locate a more recent *edcast* release).
>>
>> Any help would be much appreciated.
>>
>> Regards,
>> Ollie Cooper
>>
>>
>>  --
>>
>>
>> WARNING COPYRIGHT The Arthur Terry School 2012
>>
>>
>> Where the contents of this e-mail and any attachment includes materials
>> prepared by The Arthur Terry School the use of those materials is subject
>> exclusively to the conditions of engagement between the school and you.
>>
>>
>> This e-mail and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally
>> privileged information. By the use of e-mail over the internet The Arthur
>> Terry School is not waiving either confidentiality of or legal privilege in
>> the content of the e-mail or any attachments. If you have received this
>> e-mail in error please contact The Arthur Terry School on telephone number 
>> 0121
>> 323 2221 or e-mail technical-supp...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk
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>> The Arthur Terry School may decide to communicate with you by e-mail but
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>> a charitable company limited by guarant

Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Marc Steele]

Hello,

Just throwing ideas about but other systems store some of the metadata
(artist, title, cuepoints, etc.) in the WAVE files as CART chunk. Does
Rivendell do this (it didn't last time I checked) or could it be a feature
to add in the future?

Upshot is you can then import the files into other systems as and when you
need it (e.g. Audition or another playout system).

Regards,

Marc.


On 1 July 2013 17:11, James Harrison  wrote:

> On 01/07/13 16:54, Andy Sayler wrote:
> >
> > We currently use several 16TB (3TB x 8 on RAID6) arrays to store a
> > little over 12TB (~300,000 tracks) of music. We are to the point where
> > we will have that filled up in the next year or two given our current
> > music intake rates. We're looking at compression options to buy us some
> > time until we can move to 6TB drives and double each array's capacity.
> >
> > That said, our main reason to want FLAC on the back-end isn't
> > compression, it's metadata redundancy. Currently, we're in the situation
> > of having a very large music library with several backups and mirrors
> > that is completely dependent on a single functioning SQL database. With
> > FLAC, we could make sure each track is tagged with its own metadata, so
> > even if the RD database ever failed us or got corrupted, we'd still be
> > bale to fall back on the per-track metadata and rebuild the DB from
> > that. We keep backups of the SQL DB, but it's always a little scary to
> > have a single-point-of-failure between you and a useless 300,000 track
> > music library. Keeping tracks tagged with metadata would also avoid
> > locking us into Rivendell long term (not that we don't love RD) and
> > would allow us to access our music store from programs other than RD
> > that have no knowledge of the RD database (for production or browsing,
> etc).
> >
> > We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our
> > reason's for wanting it.
> >
>
> It should be relatively straightforward to use a script to dump metadata
> to a sidecar file next to each file in a simple format. I'd recommend
> this as good practice in any case. I suspect someone's already done
> this, or built tools that would allow it to be done.
>
> I'd look at a bigger chassis and ZFS for your use-case. Supermicro do
> some great cheap boxes with huge numbers of drive bays (some up to 48 in
> 4U). Perfect for ZFS arrays. Doing big increases isn't a pragmatic way
> to handle large arrays imho - you're best off adding 1-2 drives at a
> time and using software that allows that to be done easily. The result
> is a bit more management work, but far more stability.
>
> The amount of work required to actually make FLAC work in Rivendell is
> nontrivial - feel free to email Fred about how much it'd cost to sponsor
> it but I suspect the new array would be cheaper :-)
>
> PS: Bill, you meant to hit reply to all! This list really needs List-*
> headers...
>
> --
> Cheers,
> James Harrison
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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Oliver Cooper]

Same problem still. :(

I've even tried uninstalling and reinstalling libmad and lame (being as it's 
claiming a converter error).

Ollie


From: alessio.e...@gmail.com [alessio.e...@gmail.com] on behalf of Alessio Elmi 
[alessio_e...@hotmail.com]
Sent: 01 July 2013 13:15
To: Oliver Cooper
Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

I see It happened to me as well in the past.. I could only create "red 
empty cart". In the end it was a permission problem..
I know you checked already... My guess is: are rivendell user and rivendell 
group (from rd.conf) different?

Just give me a chance: try set rd.conf with your linux user in in user/group. 
i.e. user: alessio group: alessio (note they are the same) and change chown 
/var/snd according to that.. change /var/snd and /var/snd/*
Do you still have problems? If the answer is yes (same converting error) I 
don't know what else to try... If that solves the problem it means it *is* a 
permission problem and we should investigate that path more deeply.

Alessio


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
Hi,
Thanks for the reply! I’ve already checked the permissions on /var/snd and 
tried a plain .wav file.

Apache is running although I’ve never seen any trace of the rd-bin pages that 
other people have mentioned – however in those scenarios (converter error: OK), 
the users have been unable to delete carts – I am still able to delete, it’s 
just importing the audio that fails.

Ollie.


From: alessio.e...@gmail.com 
[mailto:alessio.e...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of 
Alessio Elmi
Sent: Monday, July 1, 2013 11:15 AM
To: Oliver Cooper
Cc: 
rivendell-dev@lists.rivendellaudio.org
Subject: Re: [RDD] rdimport error

At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess was 
trying to import a plain wav file.
If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
- Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that user 
should be in audio group etc)
- Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.

Alessio

2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 
mailto:ocoo...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk>>
Hi,

Struggling at the moment.

Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary encoders 
earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using either 
rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this morning using 
rdimport and it spews out the following.

 Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error: 
Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...

Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.

Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have also 
tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and I've 
tried importing a wav file. Same error.

I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than importing 
audio.

The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require updating. 
Running Rivendell 2.5.1.

The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddcast (unable to 
locate a more recent edcast release).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Ollie Cooper



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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[James Harrison]

On 01/07/13 16:54, Andy Sayler wrote:
>  
> We currently use several 16TB (3TB x 8 on RAID6) arrays to store a
> little over 12TB (~300,000 tracks) of music. We are to the point where
> we will have that filled up in the next year or two given our current
> music intake rates. We're looking at compression options to buy us some
> time until we can move to 6TB drives and double each array's capacity.
> 
> That said, our main reason to want FLAC on the back-end isn't
> compression, it's metadata redundancy. Currently, we're in the situation
> of having a very large music library with several backups and mirrors
> that is completely dependent on a single functioning SQL database. With
> FLAC, we could make sure each track is tagged with its own metadata, so
> even if the RD database ever failed us or got corrupted, we'd still be
> bale to fall back on the per-track metadata and rebuild the DB from
> that. We keep backups of the SQL DB, but it's always a little scary to
> have a single-point-of-failure between you and a useless 300,000 track
> music library. Keeping tracks tagged with metadata would also avoid
> locking us into Rivendell long term (not that we don't love RD) and
> would allow us to access our music store from programs other than RD
> that have no knowledge of the RD database (for production or browsing, etc).
> 
> We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our
> reason's for wanting it.
> 

It should be relatively straightforward to use a script to dump metadata
to a sidecar file next to each file in a simple format. I'd recommend
this as good practice in any case. I suspect someone's already done
this, or built tools that would allow it to be done.

I'd look at a bigger chassis and ZFS for your use-case. Supermicro do
some great cheap boxes with huge numbers of drive bays (some up to 48 in
4U). Perfect for ZFS arrays. Doing big increases isn't a pragmatic way
to handle large arrays imho - you're best off adding 1-2 drives at a
time and using software that allows that to be done easily. The result
is a bit more management work, but far more stability.

The amount of work required to actually make FLAC work in Rivendell is
nontrivial - feel free to email Fred about how much it'd cost to sponsor
it but I suspect the new array would be cheaper :-)

PS: Bill, you meant to hit reply to all! This list really needs List-*
headers...

-- 
Cheers,
James Harrison
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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[Andy Sayler]

On Mon, Jul 1, 2013 at 9:30 AM, James Harrison wrote:

> Seriously though, storage is cheap. I have 16TB in RAID6+1 at home just
> for TV/movies. Even the smallest radio stations should be able to throw
> together a RAID1/10/6 array of a few terabytes on a budget.
>

Hi James,

We currently use several 16TB (3TB x 8 on RAID6) arrays to store a little
over 12TB (~300,000 tracks) of music. We are to the point where we will
have that filled up in the next year or two given our current music intake
rates. We're looking at compression options to buy us some time until we
can move to 6TB drives and double each array's capacity.

That said, our main reason to want FLAC on the back-end isn't compression,
it's metadata redundancy. Currently, we're in the situation of having a
very large music library with several backups and mirrors that is
completely dependent on a single functioning SQL database. With FLAC, we
could make sure each track is tagged with its own metadata, so even if the
RD database ever failed us or got corrupted, we'd still be bale to fall
back on the per-track metadata and rebuild the DB from that. We keep
backups of the SQL DB, but it's always a little scary to have a
single-point-of-failure between you and a useless 300,000 track music
library. Keeping tracks tagged with metadata would also avoid locking us
into Rivendell long term (not that we don't love RD) and would allow us to
access our music store from programs other than RD that have no knowledge
of the RD database (for production or browsing, etc).

We realize flac support may not be in the RD cards, but those are our
reason's for wanting it.

Cheers,
Andy Sayler
WMFO Medford
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Re: [RDD] FLAC support

[James Harrison]

On 01/07/13 02:54, Max Goldstein, Operations Director wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Sorry if this has come up before, but we're interested in moving our WAV
> library to FLAC at some point for the space savings. Last I heard
> Rivendell didn't support FLAC natively or something like that. Can
> someone please clarify:
> 
> 1. What is the status of using FLAC for cut encodings?
> 2. If the above answer is not full support, what needs to be done to get
> there? How difficult would it be?
> 3. What are the thoughts of the Rivendell community on the priority of
> supporting FLAC? (E.g. how often does the issue come up?)
> 

It's come up a few times but the prevaling mood is largely "Storage is
cheap, audio is relatively small", even for WAV. It's a big rewrite of
the playout daemon to add support so with these combined - it's not
likely to happen.

Seriously though, storage is cheap. I have 16TB in RAID6+1 at home just
for TV/movies. Even the smallest radio stations should be able to throw
together a RAID1/10/6 array of a few terabytes on a budget.

-- 
Cheers,
James Harrison
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Re: [RDD] rdimport error

[Alessio Elmi]

At first I was thinking a id3-tag related problem... So my first guess was
trying to import a plain wav file.
If even wav file gave you errors.. it may be a permission problem.
- Check ownership and chmod of /var/snd (be the same of rd.conf, that user
should be in audio group etc)
- Be sure Apache/httpd daemon is properly config.

Alessio


2013/7/1 Oliver Cooper 

>  Hi,
>
> Struggling at the moment.
>
> Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary
> encoders earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using
> either rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this
> morning using rdimport and it spews out the following.
>
> * Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error:
> Unsupported Format, skipping 10.mp3...
>
> *Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.
>
> Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have
> also tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and
> I've tried importing a wav file. Same error.
>
> I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than
> importing audio.
>
> The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require updating.
> Running Rivendell 2.5.1.
>
> The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddcast
> (unable to locate a more recent *edcast* release).
>
> Any help would be much appreciated.
>
> Regards,
> Ollie Cooper
>
> --
>
> WARNING COPYRIGHT The Arthur Terry School 2012
>
>
> Where the contents of this e-mail and any attachment includes materials
> prepared by The Arthur Terry School the use of those materials is subject
> exclusively to the conditions of engagement between the school and you.
>
>
> This e-mail and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally
> privileged information. By the use of e-mail over the internet The Arthur
> Terry School is not waiving either confidentiality of or legal privilege in
> the content of the e-mail or any attachments. If you have received this
> e-mail in error please contact The Arthur Terry School on telephone number 
> 0121
> 323 2221 or e-mail technical-supp...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk
>
>
> The Arthur Terry School may decide to communicate with you by e-mail but
> cannot guarantee the confidentiality, reliability or speed of the e-mails
> or any attachments. If you wish to send to the company any urgent, critical
> or encrypted e-mails please notify the company first by telephone on 0121
> 323 2221. The preferred format for receiving word processed documents is
> Microsoft Word.
>
>
> As the addressed recipient of this e-mail you must not copy or forward or
> disclose this e-mail or any attachment to anyone without the prior written
> consent of The Arthur Terry School. The Arthur Terry Learning Partnership,
> a charitable company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales,
> company number 07730920. Registered office: The Arthur Terry School,
> Kittoe Road, Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, B74 4RZ.
>
> *
>
> This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
>
> and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity
>
> to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email
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> in error please notify postmas...@bgfl.org
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[RDD] rdimport error

[Oliver Cooper]

Hi,

Struggling at the moment.

Rivendell appliance installation. Have installed all of the necessary encoders 
earlier and have been happily importing mp3 and wav files using either 
rdlibrary or rdimport. I tried to import some fresh MP3s this morning using 
rdimport and it spews out the following.

 Importing file "10.mp3" to cart 060105 ...  Audio Converter Error: Unsupported 
Format, skipping 10.mp3...

Trying to import a single file in rdlibrary gives me the same error.

Audio resources in rdadmin says MPEG Layer 3 support is present. I have also 
tried reimporting a file that I know imported correctly previously and I've 
tried importing a wav file. Same error.

I seem to be able to work normally on the library still, other than importing 
audio.

The software on the computer is up to date - no packages require updating. 
Running Rivendell 2.5.1.

The only change I've made recently was compiling and install oddcast (unable to 
locate a more recent edcast release).

Any help would be much appreciated.

Regards,
Ollie Cooper



WARNING COPYRIGHT The Arthur Terry School 2012


Where the contents of this e-mail and any attachment includes materials 
prepared by The Arthur Terry School the use of those materials is subject 
exclusively to the conditions of engagement between the school and you.


This e-mail and any attachment is confidential and may contain legally 
privileged information. By the use of e-mail over the internet The Arthur Terry 
School is not waiving either confidentiality of or legal privilege in the 
content of the e-mail or any attachments. If you have received this e-mail in 
error please contact The Arthur Terry School on telephone number 0121 323 2221 
or e-mail technical-supp...@arthurterry.bham.sch.uk


The Arthur Terry School may decide to communicate with you by e-mail but cannot 
guarantee the confidentiality, reliability or speed of the e-mails or any 
attachments. If you wish to send to the company any urgent, critical or 
encrypted e-mails please notify the company first by telephone on 0121 323 
2221. The preferred format for receiving word processed documents is Microsoft 
Word.


As the addressed recipient of this e-mail you must not copy or forward or 
disclose this e-mail or any attachment to anyone without the prior written 
consent of The Arthur Terry School. The Arthur Terry Learning Partnership, a 
charitable company limited by guarantee, registered in England and Wales, 
company number 07730920. Registered office: The Arthur Terry School, Kittoe 
Road, Four Oaks, Sutton Coldfield, West Midlands, B74 4RZ.

*
This email and any files transmitted with it are confidential
and intended solely for the use of the individual or entity 
to whom they are addressed. If you have received this email 
in error please notify postmas...@bgfl.org

The views expressed within this email are those of the 
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