[RCSE] Re: V-Tail

2005-09-08 Thread David Register

Justin,

For us old geezers, it kinda comes down to a choice between ogling Kathy 
Ireland or Bella Abzug.


- Dave R


Date: Wed, 7 Sep 2005 19:41:56 -0500
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
To: rc Soaring Exchange Soaring@airage.com
Subject: Thermal duration  V or + tail
Message-ID: [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I've noticed that the Europeans seem to prefer the V tails but the Americans 
seem to prefer the plus tails for thermal duration.  Why the difference?
 


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[RCSE] Re: V-Tail

2005-09-08 Thread ama3655

Dave you are creeping me out here. Bella Abzug?

Justin - 

V or cruciform (neat word, huh?) tails both work well if properly designed, trimmed well, and flown well. 

V tails are harder for some designers that aren't used to them, and they require more effort to trim out well. 

There may be some weight or efficiency benefits for a V tail, but they aren't enough for me to detect in the air.

I've given up on them because they are a bitch to pack.

happy trails - Rob GloverJustin,For us old geezers, it kinda comes down to a choice between ogling Kathy Ireland or Bella Abzug.- Dave R


[RCSE] Re: V-tail

2005-09-08 Thread David Register


Dave you are creeping me out here. Bella Abzug?  

Justin - 

 


Well, beauty is in the eye of the beholder..

And there's an age at which it's like an old dog chasing a car - what 
the heck do you do with it if you ever catch it?


But more to the point - Joe and Don had (have?) an excellent discussion 
on V-tail design on the DJ website. Having flown quite a few of both 
types, the differences are ones of aestehtics but with the caveats:


- For the same tail moment, the volume coefficients (horizontal and 
vertical) really need to be about the same to make a fair comparison. As 
Mark noted in a recent post, the euro V-designs tend to be low in the 
vertical component of these design values. I've noticed this is in 
several 2M euro designs that I've tried and the problem (for me) is too 
little vertical volume coefficent (often half of what we'd use in a 
normal X-tail) and low dihedral angle. These complement each other to 
make the rudder yaw response rather weak as compared to many US designs. 
Consequently, my impression is that the 2M ships that are sold as TD in 
the US are really converted slopers for which a low rudder volume 
coefficient and EDA isn't all that critical. Since the yaw response to 
rudder is weak, and the dihedral angle is low, it can be tricky setting 
up aileron differential and rudder compensation for coordinated turns 
with these ships for TD purposes (again - for me).


- For a V-tail, you don't need much elevator travel but you need a lot 
of rudder travel. This seems to be compounded by a weird pitch-yaw 
coupling on large 'rudder' type movements in a V. That can require 
differential for the V surfaces as well. My impression is this gets more 
pronounced if the hinge line is angled significantly.


If you look at the Super-V designs of Mark LeVoe, you'll note that the 
horizontal and vertical volume coefficient is about in the mid-range for 
conservative X-tail designs. I think for US TD work, most folks have 
found the handling of a Super-V to be very good.


Different strokes for different folks. A V is a little more challenging 
to set up properly but works fine once you get there.


No offense intended to any euro designers with these comments. Just 
personal observations from a limited number of well-crafted ships.


- Dave R
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[RCSE] Re: V tail

1999-12-17 Thread drela


Recently I picked up a Spirit 2M kit, 
I would like to change to a V tail 
and need help as to area and the angle of the V. 
Should I maintain the same surface area or what, 
any suggestions..? 


If you have a given conventional tail,
the area and dihedral angle of the equivalent
V-tail can be estimated as follows:

 A_vtail = A_vertical + A_horizontal

 angle =  arctan[ sqrt( A_vertical / A_horizontal ) ]

Note:  A_vtail is the area of both halves together.


These formulas are strictly correct only for
large tail aspect ratios, since they do not
account for the local interference and lift
cancellation at the V-tail roots during yaw
or "rudder" application.  But they are better
than guessing.  The DJ Aerotech site has 
a slightly different formula for the angle,
but the results are similar in practice. 

- Mark Drela
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