Re: American water pump dilemma
I was thinking along the same lines as putting the pump up front. However, why not use one of the valve-gear eccentrics to also move the water pump? If wear is an issue that one eccentric could be made a touch wider to provide greater bearing surface. Just a thought... Trot, the fox who's no engineer (yet...) | /\_/\ TrotFox \ Always remember, | ( o o ) AKA Landon Solomon\ "There is a | >\_/< [EMAIL PROTECTED] \ third alternative." From: steve boylan <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Ken, I kind of like the idea of putting the pump in a "false firebox", if that's where it will fit. Another idea I had was: could the pump fit ahead of the valve gear, driven from yet another eccentric on the main axle? If you're going for full Stephenson valve gear, there probably isn't room ... (he pondered). - - Steve _ Get MSN 8 and enjoy automatic e-mail virus protection. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/virus
Re: American water pump dilemma
Why don't you put it in the tender. Some Brits have been doing that for years, although many British tenders were 3 axles and they were fixed to the tender making the whole situation easier.John T. van Riemsdijk (a well know British Gauge 1 modeler and designer) designed one that Aster used and I believe that he has done this in other designs of his. Obviously, the swinging bogies will cause problems, but you might put an O-ring/chain between one of the axles pairs and put the pump on one of those axles. In fact, the pump could be set in the tender with the O-ring/chain coming thru the tender floor. The output tubing might need to be flexible depending on the pump mount. The input could be a thin rubber or silicon tube. The bypass can then be put in the tender and only one supply tube will be required to connect to the engine. There maybe good reasons not to do this, but don't let someone tell you it won't work because the wheels will slip too much. They might slip a little, but they will pump enough for Gauge 1 operations.Didn't our resident momentum car builder (some Steam in the Garden article) use an O-ring just this way to work the momentum gearing in his car? ( or am I hallucinating? ) Dan Fuller - Original Message - From: "XXYZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Multiple recipients of sslivesteam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 10:07 PM Subject: American water pump dilemma > > > > > > Hi all, > > I have run into a bit of a dilemma. I was working on some of the boiler bits > on the American Project and thought it would be a good time to flesh out the > water pump. I am expecting the arrival of my newly purchased O/A torch rig > and that put my mind in the frame to finish the boiler details. I need to > practice A LOT before attempting the prototype boiler, but since the torch > isn't here yet I needed to work on something. > > The dilemma is were to put the water pump. I am thinking that the Dee style > pump set-up would be good but the it looks a bit clunky in the CAD model and > doesn't quite fit. I am also thinking that it may fit to the side of the > burner and inside of the firebox (like the Project loco). > > The downside of the Project setup is accessibility. The room behind the rear > axle is tight on the American and the frame is more open than that of the > Dee. Cosmetically this may look a bit ugly (it may in reality be less > noticeable than on the CAD model). There is also little room for the nose of > the scotch crank. > > I have posted a picture of the loco (see link below) with the Dee sized > scotch crank and eccentric on the rear axle. As you can see the current > configuration for the boiler is trying to share some of the same space. I am > stuck in which approach is going to be the better solution, and am wondering > if I am missing something. > > Tell me what you think. Or if you have any other options that may be more > appropriate. > > Thanks > > Ken > > http://xxyz.home.mindspring.com/american%20main%202.jpg > > >
Re: American water pump dilemma
Ken, I kind of like the idea of putting the pump in a "false firebox", if that's where it will fit. Another idea I had was: could the pump fit ahead of the valve gear, driven from yet another eccentric on the main axle? If you're going for full Stephenson valve gear, there probably isn't room ... (he pondered). - - Steve
Re: American water pump dilemma
Ken: Can you contact me off list, please. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim Curry
Re: American water pump dilemma
Ken, Check out the images at http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s600.jpg and http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/bo/bo-s600a.jpg. The water pumps on this 2-6-0 prototype are located under the cab. The pump piston rods are connected to the main rods at the rear drivers. On this prototype, the cab extends quite a bit back from the rear driver which is not quite how yoru CAD drawing of the 4-4-0 is arranged. I've seen such a pump arrangement on other locomotives at the B&O Museum in Baltimore, which unfortunately, is still closed due to the snow damage that happened last February. Somewhere in my photo piles at home I have a picture or two of these locomotives. I'll see if I can find them in the next day or two. Maybe someone else on this list has some photos of Museum locomotives that have this water pump arrangement? Casey Sterbenz From: "XXYZ" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Multiple recipients of sslivesteam <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: American water pump dilemma Date: Tue, 2 Sep 2003 21:07:22 -0600 Hi all, I have run into a bit of a dilemma. I was working on some of the boiler bits on the American Project and thought it would be a good time to flesh out the water pump. I am expecting the arrival of my newly purchased O/A torch rig and that put my mind in the frame to finish the boiler details. I need to practice A LOT before attempting the prototype boiler, but since the torch isn't here yet I needed to work on something. The dilemma is were to put the water pump. I am thinking that the Dee style pump set-up would be good but the it looks a bit clunky in the CAD model and doesn't quite fit. I am also thinking that it may fit to the side of the burner and inside of the firebox (like the Project loco). The downside of the Project setup is accessibility. The room behind the rear axle is tight on the American and the frame is more open than that of the Dee. Cosmetically this may look a bit ugly (it may in reality be less noticeable than on the CAD model). There is also little room for the nose of the scotch crank. I have posted a picture of the loco (see link below) with the Dee sized scotch crank and eccentric on the rear axle. As you can see the current configuration for the boiler is trying to share some of the same space. I am stuck in which approach is going to be the better solution, and am wondering if I am missing something. Tell me what you think. Or if you have any other options that may be more appropriate. Thanks Ken http://xxyz.home.mindspring.com/american%20main%202.jpg _ MSN 8: Get 6 months for $9.95/month http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup
American water pump dilemma
Hi all, I have run into a bit of a dilemma. I was working on some of the boiler bits on the American Project and thought it would be a good time to flesh out the water pump. I am expecting the arrival of my newly purchased O/A torch rig and that put my mind in the frame to finish the boiler details. I need to practice A LOT before attempting the prototype boiler, but since the torch isn't here yet I needed to work on something. The dilemma is were to put the water pump. I am thinking that the Dee style pump set-up would be good but the it looks a bit clunky in the CAD model and doesn't quite fit. I am also thinking that it may fit to the side of the burner and inside of the firebox (like the Project loco). The downside of the Project setup is accessibility. The room behind the rear axle is tight on the American and the frame is more open than that of the Dee. Cosmetically this may look a bit ugly (it may in reality be less noticeable than on the CAD model). There is also little room for the nose of the scotch crank. I have posted a picture of the loco (see link below) with the Dee sized scotch crank and eccentric on the rear axle. As you can see the current configuration for the boiler is trying to share some of the same space. I am stuck in which approach is going to be the better solution, and am wondering if I am missing something. Tell me what you think. Or if you have any other options that may be more appropriate. Thanks Ken http://xxyz.home.mindspring.com/american%20main%202.jpg
Water Pump
While looking through the Coles' Power Models catalog I came across a live steam model of an American La France fire engine. It reportedly will throw a stream of water fifty feet. Maybe this would have a sufficent amount of pressure to fill boilers under pressure and also double as a fire fighting apparatus for those small track fires that happen now and then. Another use could be to as a drink dispenser to agument the steam powered coctail mixer that was at one of the previous Diamondhead meets. (page 4, Catalog #26) Also on a seperate sheet they have "Coming Soon, Coles Finished Hand Force Pump in 1/2" and 3/4" bore", maybe it could be motorized or even steam powered. If you don't have one of thier catalogs it is well worth requesting, unfortunately they are not on the web but can be contacted at Coles' Power Models, Inc., 839 Front St., P.O. Box 788, Ventura, CA 93002, (805) 643 7065 (usual disclamer about financial interest) Salty
