[biofuel] Coconut Oil etc.
Hello All, Am researching the making bio-diesel from coconut oil with a fairly low tech small scale (possibly community based process in PNG) where the coconut flesh is first finely grated, then mixed with the juice, then cold pressed to produce an emulsion. This is then heated (not boiled) to separate out the oil which is then decanted off, filtered, and trans-esterified. Am wondering whether the remaining liquid would have sufficient carbohydrate content for it to be used as feedstock for ethanol production. Anyone with ideas/knowledge on the subject. Comments would be extremely welcome. Hanns Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] IMPORTANT schematic safety inclusions
I cannot gaurantee anything on this sytem, I stress to point out. Ian - Original Message - From: ian <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 1:55 PM Subject: [biofuel] IMPORTANT schematic safety inclusions > Hi all. > Thanks to Dave Preskett, Ive included some IMPORTANT safety requirements in > this revised schematic. > http://www.hammaskeep.demon.co.uk/Reac1cMa.gif > Ian > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] IMPORTANT schematic safety inclusions
Hi all. Thanks to Dave Preskett, Ive included some IMPORTANT safety requirements in this revised schematic. http://www.hammaskeep.demon.co.uk/Reac1cMa.gif Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Gathering Materials
Distilling Ethanol - The conversion of cellulose, such as sawdust, cornstalks, newspaper and other substances http://www.webconx.com/sawdust_ethanol.htm Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 6:33 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Gathering Materials > >I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather > >abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get > >the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. > >Thanx, > >Buddy > > Hi Buddy > > I wasn't too surprised that you didn't get any responses, at least > not on-list. If you find out, please let us know. This might help: > Ethanol resources on the Web - See "Ethanol from cellulose": > http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html > > Good luck! > > Best wishes > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > >www. > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
few fuel cells run at that temperature. none of the more popular ones. It's also my understanding it's infrared light, not heat, that triggers these babies. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Mike Brownstone" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 3:12 AM Subject: RE: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology > That will work well with fuel cells. > > -Original Message- > From: Warren Rekow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:22 AM > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology > > > The article in Popular Science is actually rather short and does not > provide much detail. It appears that TPV devices require a heat > source with a temperature in the 800 to 1700 deg.C range. Here are a > few web sites: > > http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mwhale/MTPV.html > http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/tpv.htm > http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov/pvsee/programs/tpv.html > http://www.mtiresearch.com/tpv.html > > -- > ...Warren Rekow > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > Yahoo! Website Services- Click Here! > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
I have spoken with Jason B. Keyes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>of http://www.jxcrystals.com/ that makes the "Midnight sun" stove. These are infrared pv, and need infrared light, not just heat. Steve Spence Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter: http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm Renewable Energy Pages - http://www.webconx.com Palm Pilot Pages - http://www.webconx.com/palm X10 Home Automation - http://www.webconx.com/x10 [EMAIL PROTECTED] (212) 894-3704 x3154 - voicemail/fax We do not inherit the earth from our ancestors, we borrow it from our children. -- - Original Message - From: "Warren Rekow" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 11:21 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology > The article in Popular Science is actually rather short and does not > provide much detail. It appears that TPV devices require a heat > source with a temperature in the 800 to 1700 deg.C range. Here are a > few web sites: > > http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mwhale/MTPV.html > http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/tpv.htm > http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov/pvsee/programs/tpv.html > http://www.mtiresearch.com/tpv.html > > -- > ...Warren Rekow > > Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Stills - was Re: [biofuel] Using the archives
>Keith, I went to the archives and found Robert Warrens paper on stills he >had designed but I can't get his e-mail address. I would like to purchase >the plans he spoke about. Could you help me? I really need to get this going >soon. >Thanks, >Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] Hello Ron Oh dear. If you'd searched a bit further you'd've found out why we dropped both that still and its promoter from our website. To be brief, it's a no-no. It won't live up to his claims for it, it doesn't do the job, and independent experts have warned that it's dangerous. The plans are unclear, the directions for building it are most confused and contradictory, the parts list is wrong, and impossible to fit to the directions and the plans, and the instructions for use are, well, benighted. Like the rest of it. I think the paper you found may have been my rework of Warren's confused material, which I did to try to help people who'd already bought the plans (but I couldn't guarantee the results of my work on it). Forget it. Really, that's the best advice. I know it looks tempting, but you'll just waste your money and your time. We managed to find only ONE person, out of more than 60 who'd bought Warren's plans, who actually got the thing working, but the performance was poor. He got much better results out of a StillMaker. You'd be better off scaling up a StillMaker. Bob Lennon, the designer, told me there's no problem in scaling it up. Meanwhile other designs are in the pipeline, very promising, but not ready yet. Sorry, Ron. Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >- Original Message - >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >To: >Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:42 AM >Subject: [biofuel] Using the archives Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] water + alky / dino-svo + alky / auto tranny + svo / biod + svo
"Dick Carlstein" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >anybody ever try matheson's recommended 50/50 alky/water misting >into the induction of a diesel ? > >matheson's mix might result in cleaner innards, and prevent coking >when using svo. > >will have to try a pressure driven fogger with a 50/50 a/w mix and >see how it improves injector hygiene. would be neat if a few others >tried it too. Most neat - I do hope people take Dick up on this. You'll find the information here: "The Manual for the Home and Farm Production of Alcohol Fuel" by S.W. Mathewson - Chapter 3, see Alcohol injection http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/ethanol_manual/manual_ToC.html Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >also, has anybody out there ever mixed alky into dinodiesel ? being >an oxygenate, it should improve hydrocarbon burn, what ? this could >also be an enabler for svo, with the alky taking care of injector >and ring groove coking. > >again, has anybody tried mixing auto tranny fluid with svo to >improve cetanes, and also reduce coking ?? > >finally, would mixing biod with svo reduce svo coking ? what ratio ? > >let's face it folks, svo is cheaper than biod, no matter how you cut >it. and until some added value is realized from glycerol, use of >svo, in any form, will help the $ equation. > >methinks, cheers, dick. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] More about methane :-)
http://www.spacedaily.com/news/010520103041.1y4o72zc.html SPACE WIRE Tax on flatulent animals could cost NZ farmers a packet WELLINGTON (AFP) May 20, 2001 A flatulence tax proposed to offset the damage to the ozone layer by farm animal gases could cost New Zealand farmers up to five billion NZ dollars (2.1 billion US), a report said Sunday. The proposal is included in the government's policy on climate change, aimed at complying with the Kyoto Protocol guidelines to reduce greenhouse gases, the Sunday Star-Times reported. The government is looking at taxing farmers between four and 60 NZ dollars for each cow and sheep they own, because of the dangerous gases the animals produce through dung, urine and flatulence. Nitrous oxide from dung and urine, and methane from flatulence, are blamed for damaging the ozone layer and contributing to global warming. New Zealand has nearly 47 million sheep and 10 million beef and dairy cattle. While New Zealand contributes only 0.2 percent of world greenhouse gas emissions, 55 percent of that comes from methane and nitous oxide in agricultural soil. The tax proposal suggests that the government could reap between two and five billion NZ dollars from the levy on farm animals between 2008 and 2012. Farmers are baffled about how to remedy natural animal behaviour and say the tax could make farming uneconomic. But cabinet minister Pete Hodgson, who is responsible for the government's climate change policy, denied Sunday that a tax was being considered, saying research was the way to go. "Research into livestock digestion and pasture composition may deliver the double benefit of reducing emissions while improving the efficiency of the animals conversion of food to bodyweight," he said in a statement. Federated Farmers president Alastair Polson said the tax move -- if it went ahead -- was "a significant shift in the tax burden to the productive economy." The federation argues that any reduction in emissions New Zealand could make were so small in a global sense that the cost of achieving them would outweigh the benefits. It will soon release a discussion paper on the proposed tax. The government aims to introduce climate change legislation by the end of the year, which would lead to the ratification of the protocol by mid-2002. All rights reserved. © 2000 Agence France-Presse. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL
Barryt,I have used a Mil-Mac filter on my Landcruiser 2H diesel for about 10 years,not for oil,but fuel filtration.Replacement toilet rolls have been Bunzil 2 ply,though a friend has successfully used Lady Scott toilet rolls after peeling off a few layers to achieve a tight fit in the container.The idea was to clean up the cheap diesel BP were importing from Singapore,after a couple of weeks the toilet rolls were black indicating their effectiveness. You can contact the manufacturers at Mil-Mac[WA]PtyLtd,47 Cohn St,Carlisle,Western Australia. 6101.Phone0894721888 Fax94703207.I am sure they will be glad to supply you with further information >David, > I loved your information about the Mil-Mac bypass > filter. What you say about engine wear really makes sense. You said in a > previous email that it was an Australian product. I'm Australian and I > can't locate it. None of the people that I have spoken to are aware of > the Mil-Mac brand. I have looked on the web and couldn't find a Mil-Mac > site. Not in the phone book. Perhaps they are known here by another > name. Can you please give me more information. > >Barryt >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > - Original Message - > From: David Reid > To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 12:54 PM > Subject: [biofuel] Why you should fit a MIL > > > Why you should fit a MIL-MAC in addition to your standard Full Flow Oil > Filter > > Full Flow FilterMIL-MAC > By-pass Oil Filter > > (Uses SURFACE filtration(Uses > DEPTH filtration > Uses perforated membranes which can Universally > recognized as the most > be damaged or clogged up with efficient > method. > large > particles.Uses > full depth filtration which only > >allows thoroughly cleaned oil to > >come out the other side. > Membrane only 1/32" (=0.8mm) or less Filter material > 4" (100mm +) or > in > thickness. more > in thickness. > >130 x more surface filtration.__ > (Uses no additional > filtering.(Works in addition to the > standard > >factory full flow filter. > (Designed to pass all the volume of oil in(Designed to > thoroughly filter only 10% > 1 minute or > under. volume in the > same time. > (Only traps large > particles. (Traps all particles. > (At very best removes particles only(At very > best removes all particles as > as low as 10 micron. (nominal rating) low as 0.1 > micron and all above. > >(100 times better than any full flow). > (At best removes particles 15 micron(At best > removes the majority of > and above. (nominal > rating)particles between 0.1 and 1 micron > >and all above 1 micron. > >(150 times at best, to 15 times better ). > (Realistically removes particles > 25(Realistically removes all particles > micron and above and has difficulty above 1 > micron. (absolute) > removing those under. (Still nominal(still 25 > times better at worst and > rating although a few are absolute). 10 times > better at very worst)._ > (Can become clogged up and fail to (Can also > become clogged up at surface > operate properly if oil is exceptionally if oil is > exceptionally dirty but continues to > dirty. > operate as surface contamination is > >pushed a small way into the filter and will > >normally last its full allotted mileage span > >with no difficulty. > (If fully clogged up or in cold weather (If fully > clogged up switches over to full > opens a by-pass valve that allows oil to flow filter > so oil continues to be filtered at > pass on the basis that dirty oil is better all times > even if inefficiently. > than no oil at all. This invariably causes While > operational even if only partially still > damage and can drastically reduce removes all > particles. > normal expected engine > life.___ > (Does not remove the vast majority of (Removes all > particles above 1 > micron > particles between 5-15 micron which and > especially all those between 5-15 > cause the majority of wear in an engine. micron. > (Allows virtually
Re: [biofuel] Gathering Materials
>I want to make ethanol from newspaper, something I have in rather >abundant supply, I was wondering if anyone knowes where I can get >the enzymes to change the cellulose to glucose. >Thanx, >Buddy Hi Buddy I wasn't too surprised that you didn't get any responses, at least not on-list. If you find out, please let us know. This might help: Ethanol resources on the Web - See "Ethanol from cellulose": http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html Good luck! Best wishes Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] circular, no waste
Suspect zeolites Looking into it Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] My first 80 litre batch
Hi all. Well, I finally did the first large batch yesterday. Using alecs' 'foolproof' method. I think i messed up big time. My system worked perfectly although it took nearly 2 hrs to filter the oil. My mix was 80% liquid veggie and 20% solid veggie. 80 litres in total. I heated it all up to 100oC until i could get no more water from it, (there wasnt much). I sucked it thru the filter (). got the temp to 55oC then added 8 litres of methanol. 5 mins later added 80ml 98 proof sulphuric. I then mixed for 55 mins then stopped heating. This is where i messed up. Going by Alecs, I gave the mixture 1hr 40 mins before adding the first half of methoxide (4 litres). But, wait for it, that was after the initial 55 mins :( . So, the base cat was working for 2hrs 35 mins. This morning, expecting the worst I opened the drain expecting thick dark gunge, it didnt happen, I got really murky mid brown oil, there was no seperation. So, i thought what the hell, heated up the whole mix to 55oC and added the final 4 litres of methoxide. Mixed for 10 mins stopped heating and stirring. Now all i can do is wait till 9 this evening to see what ive got. My caustic seemed rather white, so i mixed the methoxide using 280gms to 8 litres meth. Apart from my stupidity, the whole system was flawless, except i drew water in from back siphoning from the bubbler to the vacuum unit. Ive since put a one way valve in the system. The water didnt reach the mix it just filled up the liquid trap some. Any suggestions? Ian Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
That will work well with fuel cells. -Original Message- From: Warren Rekow [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 5:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology The article in Popular Science is actually rather short and does not provide much detail. It appears that TPV devices require a heat source with a temperature in the 800 to 1700 deg.C range. Here are a few web sites: http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mwhale/MTPV.html http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/tpv.htm http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov/pvsee/programs/tpv.html http://www.mtiresearch.com/tpv.html -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
Here, here Bob, I've been thinking about this for a while now ( I like the idea of algae farms ). Can you, perhaps refer me to more information. You know, which are the best to use, conditions of growing etc.. Mike -Original Message- From: bob golding [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 1:27 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil If you look at the yields from oil bearing algae compared to soybean or rape, that is the best area to throw the technology at rather than "improving" current crop yields,and pushing bio-diesel further into the clutches of M--s--t- and Ca-g--l and the like Oil,grain,soybeans, it's all the same to them. The beauty of bio-diesel as I see it is that it doesn't need large corporations to make it work. It can be produced locally and sold locally. "Economies of scale" is usually a euphemism for larger profits for the few. It doesn't have to be that way with boid. With petro diesel you can't just go out and drill for it. You have to invest billions in exploration, so the oil companies keep telling us when asked to justify their 3 million pounds a hour or whatever. This may be true ,but their motivation is profit for their shareholders, not "can I take less from the enviroment " This does not strike me as a sustainable system. If you don't think this is true just ask anyone in Southern Nigeria or Columbia. cheers bob golding - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil > Joseph Martelle wrote: > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html > > > >Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever > > > > > > >>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding? > > Not even on the table - loads of carbohydrates (not starch), but not > a lot of oil. Good for ethanol though. > > >What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean, > >rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to > >produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild > >from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area? > > Dunno, maybe. But most of it so far seems tied either to securing a > market sector or to securing sales of associated products (eg > herbicides). One looks hard for success stories. RR (Roundup-Ready) > herbicide-resistant soybeans are losing their resistance (leading to > increased use of herbicides, up to 30% more than with non-GE soy, > instead of the decreased use we were promised) as well as their > yields - yields are sagging badly. One doesn't have to look too hard > for outright failures (Starlink), and for side-effects we were > promised and assured were impossible but they're now happening > anyway. And of course the whole technology as it applies to food has > lost its consumer acceptance - I don't think it's the technology > itself people don't trust, it's the companies doing it. These folks > don't have a good record with this kind of stuff, nor with anything > else much. > > So I'm sure what you suggest is possible (what isn't these days?) but > would it work out right? And with what unforeseen costs? Anyway, if > you look through the amazing history of crop development over the > last four millenia or so, you end up very impressed with the > capabilities of traditional plant breeding through selection. It > works, it's safe, and the benefits are widespread and permanent. > "Modern plant-breeding has produced nothing to equal the banana," > said a modern plant-breeder. The banana is a man-made hybrid, > produced a couple of thousand years ago, by all accounts. It can't > reproduce itself, all bananas are propagated by hand and always have > been. Wherever Europeans went "discovering" new (to them) parts of > the world, the banana was there before them. It's of immense benefit > to billions of people. Really first-class science. > > I'm not knocking GE, it's an immensely promising field, it's a huge > pity (?) that its development is in the hands of these wisdomless > dumbos who've given us so much else to be less than thankful for. > > A frequent question on the list (but recently, regarding newspapers) > is ethanol production from cellulose, a technology that it seems just > isn't there yet, despite all sorts of promising start-ups and so on. > More info here: Ethanol resources on the Web - see Ethanol from > cellulose: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html > > It seems the perfect case for a GE organism. Well, it was tried. Do a > message archive search for message #2887 at the list website to see > the results - Alcohol-producing GM bacteria "could destroy all life > on earth", 22 Feb 2001. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages > > "Wisdomless dumbos" isn't an exaggeration. The precautionary > principle is
Re: [biofuel] Using the archives
Keith, I went to the archives and found Robert Warrens paper on stills he had designed but I can't get his e-mail address. I would like to purchase the plans he spoke about. Could you help me? I really need to get this going soon. Thanks, Ron [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, May 20, 2001 12:42 AM Subject: [biofuel] Using the archives > Hi all > > I've had some enquiries about this, and it's useful for new members, so... > > Go to the messages section at the list website at Yahoo! Groups: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages > Yahoo! Groups : biofuel Messages > > Here you'll see the latest messages. You can read them, respond to > them, post new messages, scroll back, view the messages in various > ways, and search the database containing all messages posted to the > list from the start - currently 5521 of them. > > There are two ways of searching. There's a "search archive" box, type > in key word(s) and hit the button. > > Also, each message has a number, like this: > Msg # > 2959 - briggs and stratton; kerosene or biodiesel? - steve spence - > Tue 2/27/2001 > > These numbers are only to be found at the website interface, they're > not included in emailed messages. > > There's a separate "Msg #" search box, type in the number you want > and hit "Go". This is useful when referring other members to a > particular message in the archives. > > I recently said that Yahoo! had improved the search service so that > it now searches all messages in a db instead of only the first 5,000 > as previously. I was told so, but seems not - it's only searching the > first 5,000. :-( > > I'm trying to find out more about this. > > Best > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > Biofuel list owner > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] circular, no waste
I was talking to a guy that does some waste digesting to make methane the other day, and we got to talking about the left over glycerin being good to dgest into methane, which we decided could be reformed into methanol, which could of course be used in making more biodiesel. the closest thing to perpetual motion i have ever come up with! does anyone know enough about anaerobic digestion to say whether it would take the low Ph of the BD glycerin? anton Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] drying oil
hey, folks, this seems a little obviuos, but I have a batch of oil that is cloudy, I'm not sure why, but i have assumed that it has some water emulsified in it somehow. I have made two batches now, that have had varying amounts of a thin waxy film on top, and a milky appearance after washing, and the second batch has abunch of what i think is soap on the bottom. what i want to know, is how to be sure the oil is all the way dry before I make the batch, if my assumptions are correct, or if anyone has some ideas as to what is making the oil cloudy in the first place. I have heated the oil, in a 50 gallon batch , to 225 degrees, at which point i assumed the water had all been boiled out of it. is it possible to attain 225 degrees without the water being boiled off? how long should I have to keeep it at that temp to boil off the water? why is my stored (before the heating) oil staying milky, and not settling out clear? will boiling the water out of it make more free fatty acids? my oil comes from a place that fries corn chips, and most of it has been fairly clear, and these are the first batches I have had any trouble with. thanks all, anton Burn vegetables, not dinosaurs! Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Goot Moggin?
Well, since the second shift has arrived, I guess I can clock out, eh? So, squire, what input have yee on the overall premise of Appal's general proposal? We're considering a corporate package as well, but each "sponsor" would have to commit that all of their proceeds from the endeavor would go to nothing but energy efficiency and conservation measures - preferably all parts, not "labor and installations." That should draw some flak. Just not partial to bustin' my hump and not knowing where the profits we make for someone else are going. Look forward to hearing your reply with my first cup in the morn. Todd Appal Energy [EMAIL PROTECTED] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Using the archives
Hi all I've had some enquiries about this, and it's useful for new members, so... Go to the messages section at the list website at Yahoo! Groups: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages Yahoo! Groups : biofuel Messages Here you'll see the latest messages. You can read them, respond to them, post new messages, scroll back, view the messages in various ways, and search the database containing all messages posted to the list from the start - currently 5521 of them. There are two ways of searching. There's a "search archive" box, type in key word(s) and hit the button. Also, each message has a number, like this: Msg # 2959 - briggs and stratton; kerosene or biodiesel? - steve spence - Tue 2/27/2001 These numbers are only to be found at the website interface, they're not included in emailed messages. There's a separate "Msg #" search box, type in the number you want and hit "Go". This is useful when referring other members to a particular message in the archives. I recently said that Yahoo! had improved the search service so that it now searches all messages in a db instead of only the first 5,000 as previously. I was told so, but seems not - it's only searching the first 5,000. :-( I'm trying to find out more about this. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel list owner Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
The article in Popular Science is actually rather short and does not provide much detail. It appears that TPV devices require a heat source with a temperature in the 800 to 1700 deg.C range. Here are a few web sites: http://www.me.uvic.ca/~mwhale/MTPV.html http://vri.etec.wwu.edu/tpv.htm http://powerweb.lerc.nasa.gov/pvsee/programs/tpv.html http://www.mtiresearch.com/tpv.html -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] water + alky / dino-svo + alky / auto tranny + svo / biod + svo
anybody ever try matheson's recommended 50/50 alky/water misting into the induction of a diesel ? matheson's mix might result in cleaner innards, and prevent coking when using svo. will have to try a pressure driven fogger with a 50/50 a/w mix and see how it improves injector hygiene. would be neat if a few others tried it too. also, has anybody out there ever mixed alky into dinodiesel ? being an oxygenate, it should improve hydrocarbon burn, what ? this could also be an enabler for svo, with the alky taking care of injector and ring groove coking. again, has anybody tried mixing auto tranny fluid with svo to improve cetanes, and also reduce coking ?? finally, would mixing biod with svo reduce svo coking ? what ratio ? let's face it folks, svo is cheaper than biod, no matter how you cut it. and until some added value is realized from glycerol, use of svo, in any form, will help the $ equation. methinks, cheers, dick. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] socios, commies, bushland, and bees...
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Water vs Energy Importance To whomever this may concern why do I get the feeling that this forum is an exchange of ideas for a bunch of socialists, and communists? *i feel strongly discriminated against. i'm an analphabet agnostic anarchist and was not included in the gentleman's diatribe. shame !! *personally, i was recruited by the afghanistan talibans. i do not know who the other honorable members of the list spy for. *besides, socios and commies cannot exchange ideas, as they only deal in dogma. *happy hating, winaled !!! From: "PLChan" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Re: Misinformation and Scare Tactics As a non-American who's been fairly well travelled, I am utterly shocked that Americans elected a spoilt rich boy who hasn't a notion of how the rest of the world lives as a president. And now, he seems to be displaying a complete disregard and is serioulsy endangering the future of USA and the world. As Marie Antoinette said, "The peasants are starving? Then let them eat cake!" *the actual phrasing was 'they lack for bread ? let them eat cake instead !!' *as to dinobush, you ain't seen nothing yet !!! he's painting himself into a corner, energy wise (like he did with the spy plane...), and we'll soon see 40 dollar spot crude oil prices again, thanks to his head's present position. *but then, i didn't vote for him !!! (being a non-resident alien) latest polls show that nobody actually did(:-D) does this make him the 'first virtual pres, in the us' (nice rhime there...) ??? *shame is we all breathe the same air, and essentially drink the same water... From: "David Reid" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: The MN Way O.T.We certainly had some of the best honey in the world here *with the only exception of uruguayan honey, probably the best kept gourmet secret in the world. used to make my extraordinary mead using only the honey we keep because it's too good to export to the lumpen, and insuperable uruguayan well water. cheers, dick. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Keith, Was just looking at the biodiesel yield tables http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html and it occurred to me whether the yields for crops like coconut and oil palm are annual (most likely), and for such as rapeseed, soybean, corn etc. are yields per harvest. Can you advise? Thanks, Hanns -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, 20 May 2001 3:22 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow >Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand >only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism & >stuff. > >Hanns :-) I'm sure you'll manage. Flames duly damped (I hope!), at least for now. It happens every now and then, but not too often. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] remove me from this group,
i thought i would just be gettting a news letter like once a month, guess i was wrong, can you send it to my aol address instead? [EMAIL PROTECTED] __ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Auctions - buy the things you want at great prices http://auctions.yahoo.com/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Hey guys, dont forget to look at Amzoil's by pass filter system. Tom David Reid wrote: > > Hi Derek, >Yes you may use a by-pass filter with either standard > petroleum based or synthetic based oils. Both will benefit the oil and the > engine tremendously. Please be aware if you are not already that engine oil > is made from two main things: namely the base stock which is normally > petroleum base, nowadays increasingly becoming synthetic based, or a mixture > of the two (semi-synthetic), and the additive package. It is the quality of > these two ingredients that determine the quality of the oil. The better the > quality of the oil the longer the life of the oil. Poorer quality oils dont > work as well as higher quality oils which maintain better lubricity and the > other goals they were formulated for etc. thus minimising the wear and tear > and allowing quieter, smoother, and more efficient running. By removing the > wear particles and other contaminants as they are created you greatly > increase the life of the oil and the engine. You still need to change the > filter in the by-pass so you remove the particles and contaminants trapped > or entrained in the roll. At the same time as you replace the filter you > replace 1 litre or quart for every roll so that you replace the additives > that have been used up and are entrapped with the contaminants in the filter > or in the oil passing through the filter and which you remove when you > remove the filter. Oil as such as I have commented before does not wear out > it just becomes contaminated. However the additives can become depleted as > they are either used up in combating the contaminants or a small amount of > which are removed with the oil impregnated filter. It is a bit like a war. > You dont replace your whole army or amed forces, but you certainly replace > your frontline troops. By replacing the additives every time you do a filter > change you ensure the oil is up to scratch at all times. > The advantage of a by-pass filter is that you dont have to replace the > entire oil every 5000km or whatever but only a small %. As a result you save > about 80% on your oil costs while at the same time getting all the > advantages of a thoroughly clean oil system. One of the advantages that a > lot of people havnt cottoned on to is that you can run a much better grade > of oil and have all its advantages for very little more and generally a lot > cheaper than if you were regularly changing a standard oil (This with vastly > reduced wear rates too). One of the problems in the past with the people > using by-pass filters is that to some degree they have been used by the > wrong people who have just looked at the cost angle, used them to achieve > lower costs and more mileage between filter changes, without doing their > other regular routine maintenance. There is no excuse for sloth and > laziness, and lack of attention to other details means they pay the price > elsewhere with one or two people claiming in the past this filter dosnt work > as well as they expected. As such there is no such thing as free motoring > but an aware motorist can certainly help reduce his operating cost with > these. > To answer your questions below better I automatically recommend that you > upgrade your oil if possible at the same time as you are now using a lot > less and hence can afford a better grade. The first one neednt be any better > grade as this is more a flushing out of the system than anything and because > you are normally removing a lot of engrained dirt particles, cleaning out > gallery ways etc the oil should not remain in the system and should be > changed fairly promptly. Sure the oil is quickly cleaner and you could argue > that it dosnt need to be changed but you dont know what additives have > really been used up in getting to this point in cleaning the system. By > changing the oil and the filter pretty promptly you then know you are > starting with a clean system with good quality oil. As a rule synthetics are > better and offer longer life and I would push you towards these but at the > end of the day the decision must be yours based on cost of oils (synthetics > are mostly always dearer), oil useage of the vehicle, and a number of other > factors in addition. It is a very good rule to select a good quality oil and > once chosen to stick with that oil rather than chopping and changing as the > base stock and the additive package vary from oil to oil. I would have a > look at what the manufacturer recommends in the workshop manual particularly > in relation to grade and most definitely not go below that. With regard to > filter mileage changes as you are not replacing a lot of oil I recommend > doing a filter change every 5000 km particularly for the first change anyway > as you are removing the contaminants with the filter roll which then has no > possibility of re-enterering the system due to filter breakdown. Be aware > that some oil
Re: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
Bob, Is there any info out there regarding soybeans for ethanol use. We grow millions of pounds here in Alabama Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: bob golding <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 6:26 PM Subject: Re: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil > If you look at the yields from oil bearing algae compared to soybean or > rape, that is the best area to throw the technology at rather than > "improving" current crop yields,and pushing bio-diesel further into the > clutches of M--s--t- and Ca-g--l and the like Oil,grain,soybeans, it's all > the same to them. The beauty of bio-diesel as I see it is that it doesn't > need large corporations to make it work. It can be produced locally and sold > locally. "Economies of scale" is usually a euphemism for larger profits for > the few. It doesn't have to be that way with boid. With petro diesel you > can't just go out and drill for it. You have to invest billions in > exploration, so the oil companies keep telling us when asked to justify > their 3 million pounds a hour or whatever. This may be true ,but their > motivation is profit for their shareholders, not "can I take less from the > enviroment " This does not strike me as a sustainable system. If you don't > think this is true just ask anyone in Southern Nigeria or Columbia. > cheers > bob golding > > > - Original Message - > From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:47 PM > Subject: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil > > > > Joseph Martelle wrote: > > > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html > > > > > >Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever > > > > > > > > > >>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high > yielding? > > > > Not even on the table - loads of carbohydrates (not starch), but not > > a lot of oil. Good for ethanol though. > > > > >What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at > soybean, > > >rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome > to > > >produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil > yeild > > >from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this > area? > > > > Dunno, maybe. But most of it so far seems tied either to securing a > > market sector or to securing sales of associated products (eg > > herbicides). One looks hard for success stories. RR (Roundup-Ready) > > herbicide-resistant soybeans are losing their resistance (leading to > > increased use of herbicides, up to 30% more than with non-GE soy, > > instead of the decreased use we were promised) as well as their > > yields - yields are sagging badly. One doesn't have to look too hard > > for outright failures (Starlink), and for side-effects we were > > promised and assured were impossible but they're now happening > > anyway. And of course the whole technology as it applies to food has > > lost its consumer acceptance - I don't think it's the technology > > itself people don't trust, it's the companies doing it. These folks > > don't have a good record with this kind of stuff, nor with anything > > else much. > > > > So I'm sure what you suggest is possible (what isn't these days?) but > > would it work out right? And with what unforeseen costs? Anyway, if > > you look through the amazing history of crop development over the > > last four millenia or so, you end up very impressed with the > > capabilities of traditional plant breeding through selection. It > > works, it's safe, and the benefits are widespread and permanent. > > "Modern plant-breeding has produced nothing to equal the banana," > > said a modern plant-breeder. The banana is a man-made hybrid, > > produced a couple of thousand years ago, by all accounts. It can't > > reproduce itself, all bananas are propagated by hand and always have > > been. Wherever Europeans went "discovering" new (to them) parts of > > the world, the banana was there before them. It's of immense benefit > > to billions of people. Really first-class science. > > > > I'm not knocking GE, it's an immensely promising field, it's a huge > > pity (?) that its development is in the hands of these wisdomless > > dumbos who've given us so much else to be less than thankful for. > > > > A frequent question on the list (but recently, regarding newspapers) > > is ethanol production from cellulose, a technology that it seems just > > isn't there yet, despite all sorts of promising start-ups and so on. > > More info here: Ethanol resources on the Web - see Ethanol from > > cellulose: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html > > > > It seems the perfect case for a GE organism. Well, it was tried. Do a > > message archive search for message #2887 at the list website to see > > the results - Alcohol-producing GM bacteria "could destroy all life > > on earth", 22 Feb 2001. > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages > > > > "Wisdomless dumb
Re: [biofuel] SPECIAL INTRODUCTORY OFFER
Hi Derek, Yes you may use a by-pass filter with either standard petroleum based or synthetic based oils. Both will benefit the oil and the engine tremendously. Please be aware if you are not already that engine oil is made from two main things: namely the base stock which is normally petroleum base, nowadays increasingly becoming synthetic based, or a mixture of the two (semi-synthetic), and the additive package. It is the quality of these two ingredients that determine the quality of the oil. The better the quality of the oil the longer the life of the oil. Poorer quality oils dont work as well as higher quality oils which maintain better lubricity and the other goals they were formulated for etc. thus minimising the wear and tear and allowing quieter, smoother, and more efficient running. By removing the wear particles and other contaminants as they are created you greatly increase the life of the oil and the engine. You still need to change the filter in the by-pass so you remove the particles and contaminants trapped or entrained in the roll. At the same time as you replace the filter you replace 1 litre or quart for every roll so that you replace the additives that have been used up and are entrapped with the contaminants in the filter or in the oil passing through the filter and which you remove when you remove the filter. Oil as such as I have commented before does not wear out it just becomes contaminated. However the additives can become depleted as they are either used up in combating the contaminants or a small amount of which are removed with the oil impregnated filter. It is a bit like a war. You dont replace your whole army or amed forces, but you certainly replace your frontline troops. By replacing the additives every time you do a filter change you ensure the oil is up to scratch at all times. The advantage of a by-pass filter is that you dont have to replace the entire oil every 5000km or whatever but only a small %. As a result you save about 80% on your oil costs while at the same time getting all the advantages of a thoroughly clean oil system. One of the advantages that a lot of people havnt cottoned on to is that you can run a much better grade of oil and have all its advantages for very little more and generally a lot cheaper than if you were regularly changing a standard oil (This with vastly reduced wear rates too). One of the problems in the past with the people using by-pass filters is that to some degree they have been used by the wrong people who have just looked at the cost angle, used them to achieve lower costs and more mileage between filter changes, without doing their other regular routine maintenance. There is no excuse for sloth and laziness, and lack of attention to other details means they pay the price elsewhere with one or two people claiming in the past this filter dosnt work as well as they expected. As such there is no such thing as free motoring but an aware motorist can certainly help reduce his operating cost with these. To answer your questions below better I automatically recommend that you upgrade your oil if possible at the same time as you are now using a lot less and hence can afford a better grade. The first one neednt be any better grade as this is more a flushing out of the system than anything and because you are normally removing a lot of engrained dirt particles, cleaning out gallery ways etc the oil should not remain in the system and should be changed fairly promptly. Sure the oil is quickly cleaner and you could argue that it dosnt need to be changed but you dont know what additives have really been used up in getting to this point in cleaning the system. By changing the oil and the filter pretty promptly you then know you are starting with a clean system with good quality oil. As a rule synthetics are better and offer longer life and I would push you towards these but at the end of the day the decision must be yours based on cost of oils (synthetics are mostly always dearer), oil useage of the vehicle, and a number of other factors in addition. It is a very good rule to select a good quality oil and once chosen to stick with that oil rather than chopping and changing as the base stock and the additive package vary from oil to oil. I would have a look at what the manufacturer recommends in the workshop manual particularly in relation to grade and most definitely not go below that. With regard to filter mileage changes as you are not replacing a lot of oil I recommend doing a filter change every 5000 km particularly for the first change anyway as you are removing the contaminants with the filter roll which then has no possibility of re-enterering the system due to filter breakdown. Be aware that some oils have a very high sulfur content and that if you combine sulfur compounds with water you end up with sulphuric acid. By-pass filters of this nature are extremely good at removing these compounds and their fitting to a system
Re: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
If you look at the yields from oil bearing algae compared to soybean or rape, that is the best area to throw the technology at rather than "improving" current crop yields,and pushing bio-diesel further into the clutches of M--s--t- and Ca-g--l and the like Oil,grain,soybeans, it's all the same to them. The beauty of bio-diesel as I see it is that it doesn't need large corporations to make it work. It can be produced locally and sold locally. "Economies of scale" is usually a euphemism for larger profits for the few. It doesn't have to be that way with boid. With petro diesel you can't just go out and drill for it. You have to invest billions in exploration, so the oil companies keep telling us when asked to justify their 3 million pounds a hour or whatever. This may be true ,but their motivation is profit for their shareholders, not "can I take less from the enviroment " This does not strike me as a sustainable system. If you don't think this is true just ask anyone in Southern Nigeria or Columbia. cheers bob golding - Original Message - From: "Keith Addison" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:47 PM Subject: [biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil > Joseph Martelle wrote: > > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html > > > >Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever > > > > > > >>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding? > > Not even on the table - loads of carbohydrates (not starch), but not > a lot of oil. Good for ethanol though. > > >What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean, > >rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to > >produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild > >from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area? > > Dunno, maybe. But most of it so far seems tied either to securing a > market sector or to securing sales of associated products (eg > herbicides). One looks hard for success stories. RR (Roundup-Ready) > herbicide-resistant soybeans are losing their resistance (leading to > increased use of herbicides, up to 30% more than with non-GE soy, > instead of the decreased use we were promised) as well as their > yields - yields are sagging badly. One doesn't have to look too hard > for outright failures (Starlink), and for side-effects we were > promised and assured were impossible but they're now happening > anyway. And of course the whole technology as it applies to food has > lost its consumer acceptance - I don't think it's the technology > itself people don't trust, it's the companies doing it. These folks > don't have a good record with this kind of stuff, nor with anything > else much. > > So I'm sure what you suggest is possible (what isn't these days?) but > would it work out right? And with what unforeseen costs? Anyway, if > you look through the amazing history of crop development over the > last four millenia or so, you end up very impressed with the > capabilities of traditional plant breeding through selection. It > works, it's safe, and the benefits are widespread and permanent. > "Modern plant-breeding has produced nothing to equal the banana," > said a modern plant-breeder. The banana is a man-made hybrid, > produced a couple of thousand years ago, by all accounts. It can't > reproduce itself, all bananas are propagated by hand and always have > been. Wherever Europeans went "discovering" new (to them) parts of > the world, the banana was there before them. It's of immense benefit > to billions of people. Really first-class science. > > I'm not knocking GE, it's an immensely promising field, it's a huge > pity (?) that its development is in the hands of these wisdomless > dumbos who've given us so much else to be less than thankful for. > > A frequent question on the list (but recently, regarding newspapers) > is ethanol production from cellulose, a technology that it seems just > isn't there yet, despite all sorts of promising start-ups and so on. > More info here: Ethanol resources on the Web - see Ethanol from > cellulose: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html > > It seems the perfect case for a GE organism. Well, it was tried. Do a > message archive search for message #2887 at the list website to see > the results - Alcohol-producing GM bacteria "could destroy all life > on earth", 22 Feb 2001. > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages > > "Wisdomless dumbos" isn't an exaggeration. The precautionary > principle is sacrosanct, but it's been widely ignored, and instead of > the fruits of GE's great promise we seem to be getting instead a > whole new and worse kind of pollution. If only it were being used for > real benefit in such fields as biofuels. Or to make something as > useful as a banana. > > By the way, RAFI and the Dag Hammarskjold Foundation have published a > booklet called "The ETC Century", on the technological challenges of
[biofuel] Still Help
Keith, Can you tell me if it makes any difference what type of metal one uses to build a column for a still. Stainless steel is preferable but could one use auto or diesel exhaust tubing/pipe. I know that plain steel will rust after a period of time but if you clean the column with regularity would it make any difference. I'm not a drinker but I don't want my product contaminated. Also I have been reading some of the material you recomended on the net(great stuff)but am curious about my math. It seems that it will take about 25 pounds of wheat or corn in a mash to distill one gallon of product/ethanol. Is my math wrong? Your help and others who have replied have spurred me on to more reading and although I must say I am quite anxious to build my still I still do not know what size I need to build. I would like to produce say five to ten gallons a week if possible. Thanks, Ron Miller - Original Message - From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters > > > >We are told that there is > >enough oil to last 70 years if we keep finding oil at the current rate but > >with the increasing number of vehicles on the road and countries like China > >coming on line I seriously doubt if there is 35 years supply left. > >B.r., David > > I doubt we can take another 35 years of the side-effects. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
I just got myself a couple of SEPAR combined de-waterers and filters. The filters can be 2, 10 or 30 microns. I'll let you know how I get on Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
Hi Barry, See I didnt answer this e-mail properly. The fuel filters are basically the same as the oil filters although slightly different. They differ in that while the oil filter has a 50 thou orifice in the inlet opening to drop the oil velocity and to prevent channeling the fuel filter entry is is the same or bigger than the fuel line size so there is no restriction and fuel can progress unrestricted. They also have a cock or tap on the bottom so you can drain them occasionally or every so often, to remove the water which tends to settle out, especially when idle or sitting for a while, and for taking fuel samples for visual examination and inspection. As such the filter element will not fit the canisters you mention. Nevertheless when fitted in conjunction with these as the final filter with a diesel they will give you superfine filtration removing the asphaltine particles and other fine contaminants present in all diesel fuel which are the biggest cause of soot (carbon) and exhaust emissions. When fitted together with a by-pass oil filter they help prevent carbon particles entering the crankcase oil to quite a large degree in the first place and thus help to achieve the cleanest system possible and extended oil and engine life. Both MIL-MAC oil and fuel filters will work exceedingly well on this type of vehicle. There is also generally plenty of room for fitting them and easy access. I can assure you that you will be very happy if you fit them. B.r., David - Original Message - From: Barryt <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Biofuel Yahoo Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 7:39 PM Subject: [biofuel] Re: Filters > David, > I was reading your specs for the Mil-Mac filter element. Do you use the same filter for fuel as well as oil? What are the demensions of the element? I dive a toyota 4wd diesel with standard fuel filter element in the metal canaster used by toyota, mitsubishi and daihatsu diesels. Can I make a Mil-Mac filter element fit in one of those? > > Regards > Barryt Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
nice one! ian - Original Message - From: Warren Rekow <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 5:37 PM Subject: [biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology > Hello fellow biofuelers, > The following message was posted on another email list. I do not have > this magazine yet. Sounds like this technology might be a god-send if > the cost is tolerable. Maybe wrap these cells around IC engines, put > them in solar collectors, etc? Sheesh, per the numbers given, one > square meter of cells would generate 50 kW of electricity! Too good > to be true??? > > >>> > An article in the June issue of Popular Science told about some new > technology about to hit the market. These are something like solar cells in > that they collect one form of energy and convert it into useable electricity. > > But these are designed to absorb heat from another source and convert the > heat into electricity. They are designing home heating furnaces that have > these TPV cells lined around the internal combustion chamber to absorb the > heat and convert it into enough electricity. A regular solar cell makes one > milliwatt per square centimeter. the TPV cell makes 5 watts of power per > square centimeter. One model heating unit already on the market makes enough > power to run its own fan, recharge storage batteries, all the while supplying > enough heat for the house. The next generation units are predicted to > generate enough electricity while heating the home to power the rest of the > house's needs and put juice back into the power grid during low energy need > times. > > If they can figure out how to do the same with airconditioning > compressors(which also put out a lot of heat), dryers, and stove/ovens, you > Californians may not need any new power plants after all :0) > <<< > -- > ...Warren Rekow > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [biofuel] Re: Filters
Keith, How true. How very true. All the more reason to get some of these other technologies up and running as fast as we can. At a time when the american people and the world needed a progressive, far seeing individual, with a vision for mankind, they seem to have taken a retrograde step and elected a president who is a chip off the old block with the insular thinking of 50 years ago where the world was divided into power blocs and centres of interests rather than being a truly global economy with man helping man and all of us doing our best to help one another. Perhaps I am prejudging the man but I aint seen nothing yet to even start me thinking that perhaps I am wrong. Still it is early days but I hope we dont get 4 years down the track to find nothing changed. The time for change and the introduction of novel technologies is now. This new Energy Policy seems to have nothing new and with "Acceptance of the Status Quo" stamped all over it. Lets hope I am wrong. Like JFK or not there certainly was a dynamism about that era with the start of the space age that certainly seems to be lacking in the current crop of world leaders. I believe some of that came about as a result of right or wrong America under a young JFK made a decision and ran with it. It is this sort of impetus that is required today here and now in relation to energy. Otherwise hell who knows if we take all the oil out of the earth as quickly as we are doing at present the world may fall on its side and those now basking in the glow of modern technological advancement may be situated at the position of the North and South Poles. B.r., David > >We are told that there is > >enough oil to last 70 years if we keep finding oil at the current rate but > >with the increasing number of vehicles on the road and countries like China > >coming on line I seriously doubt if there is 35 years supply left. > >B.r., David > > I doubt we can take another 35 years of the side-effects. > > Keith Addison > Journey to Forever > Handmade Projects > Tokyo > http://journeytoforever.org/ > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance
Keith, Nice to hear that you're from around the corner. I live in Hout Bay and know your travel route well. Just about one of the most breath-taking ways of driving to work. Sea Point is still much the same but Noordhoek has grown. It has its own Mcdonalds. Although Long Beach is still pristine and we got that famous right breaker ( or is it left) near Kommetjie. Ja broer, kom oor dan gaan vang ons kreef en maak u braai. Lekker om met jou te praat. Mike Hey, Mike, ek se, scarf a kreef for me ou broe! And some pickled vis ook. I'm a hell of a long way from Sea Point! (born and raised) You're doing good, strength to your arm. They say the Cape Doctor blows all the dirt away, but it seemed to me it did just the opposite - before I left in 1976 I'd ride in to work from Noordhoek on my bike and at the top of Kloof Nek I'd see this brown fog hanging in there over the city at the foot of the mountain. Quite a few times I just turned round and went back to Noordhoek. All best Keith >Mike > >-Original Message- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Saturday, May 19, 2001 4:00 AM >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [biofuel] Water vs Energy Importance > > >To Whom This May Concern, >me thinks you protest too much -- you sniveling socialist pigs! wherefore Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
>Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand >only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism & >stuff. > >Hanns :-) I'm sure you'll manage. Flames duly damped (I hope!), at least for now. It happens every now and then, but not too often. All best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] GE oilseeds - was RE: Palm and coconut oil
Joseph Martelle wrote: >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html > >Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever > > > >>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding? Not even on the table - loads of carbohydrates (not starch), but not a lot of oil. Good for ethanol though. >What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean, >rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to >produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild >from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area? Dunno, maybe. But most of it so far seems tied either to securing a market sector or to securing sales of associated products (eg herbicides). One looks hard for success stories. RR (Roundup-Ready) herbicide-resistant soybeans are losing their resistance (leading to increased use of herbicides, up to 30% more than with non-GE soy, instead of the decreased use we were promised) as well as their yields - yields are sagging badly. One doesn't have to look too hard for outright failures (Starlink), and for side-effects we were promised and assured were impossible but they're now happening anyway. And of course the whole technology as it applies to food has lost its consumer acceptance - I don't think it's the technology itself people don't trust, it's the companies doing it. These folks don't have a good record with this kind of stuff, nor with anything else much. So I'm sure what you suggest is possible (what isn't these days?) but would it work out right? And with what unforeseen costs? Anyway, if you look through the amazing history of crop development over the last four millenia or so, you end up very impressed with the capabilities of traditional plant breeding through selection. It works, it's safe, and the benefits are widespread and permanent. "Modern plant-breeding has produced nothing to equal the banana," said a modern plant-breeder. The banana is a man-made hybrid, produced a couple of thousand years ago, by all accounts. It can't reproduce itself, all bananas are propagated by hand and always have been. Wherever Europeans went "discovering" new (to them) parts of the world, the banana was there before them. It's of immense benefit to billions of people. Really first-class science. I'm not knocking GE, it's an immensely promising field, it's a huge pity (?) that its development is in the hands of these wisdomless dumbos who've given us so much else to be less than thankful for. A frequent question on the list (but recently, regarding newspapers) is ethanol production from cellulose, a technology that it seems just isn't there yet, despite all sorts of promising start-ups and so on. More info here: Ethanol resources on the Web - see Ethanol from cellulose: http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_link.html It seems the perfect case for a GE organism. Well, it was tried. Do a message archive search for message #2887 at the list website to see the results - Alcohol-producing GM bacteria "could destroy all life on earth", 22 Feb 2001. http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/messages "Wisdomless dumbos" isn't an exaggeration. The precautionary principle is sacrosanct, but it's been widely ignored, and instead of the fruits of GE's great promise we seem to be getting instead a whole new and worse kind of pollution. If only it were being used for real benefit in such fields as biofuels. Or to make something as useful as a banana. By the way, RAFI and the Dag Hammarskjold Foundation have published a booklet called "The ETC Century", on the technological challenges of the 21st Century. It's very good, covers GE, nanotech and more - pdf here: http://rafi.org/web/allpub-display.shtml?pfl=others-list-en.param RAFI - Rural Advancement Foundation International Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ > Just my wild musings. > Joe. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[biofuel] Fwd: thermophotovoltaic technology
Hello fellow biofuelers, The following message was posted on another email list. I do not have this magazine yet. Sounds like this technology might be a god-send if the cost is tolerable. Maybe wrap these cells around IC engines, put them in solar collectors, etc? Sheesh, per the numbers given, one square meter of cells would generate 50 kW of electricity! Too good to be true??? >>> An article in the June issue of Popular Science told about some new technology about to hit the market. These are something like solar cells in that they collect one form of energy and convert it into useable electricity. But these are designed to absorb heat from another source and convert the heat into electricity. They are designing home heating furnaces that have these TPV cells lined around the internal combustion chamber to absorb the heat and convert it into enough electricity. A regular solar cell makes one milliwatt per square centimeter. the TPV cell makes 5 watts of power per square centimeter. One model heating unit already on the market makes enough power to run its own fan, recharge storage batteries, all the while supplying enough heat for the house. The next generation units are predicted to generate enough electricity while heating the home to power the rest of the house's needs and put juice back into the power grid during low energy need times. If they can figure out how to do the same with airconditioning compressors(which also put out a lot of heat), dryers, and stove/ovens, you Californians may not need any new power plants after all :0) <<< -- ...Warren Rekow Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Thanks for the yield tables and other info Keith. I'll try 5o use one hand only from now on. Especially when reading all these flames about socialism & stuff. Hanns -Original Message- From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2001 12:57 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow Hi Hanns Thanks for the info. >Keith, > >Here is the URL of Kokonut Pacific P/L http://www.kokonutpacific.com.au If >you read it you will know as much about DME oil as I. Have sent them an >email but as yet to receive a reply. Another URL >http://www.undp.org.fj/sed/NEWS/news16.htm states the process has been used >Samoa, Kiribati and Fiji. But could not find any further references >elsewhere. > >For a village based appropriate technology process the cost of some $US4500 >plus the necessity for electricity seems rather high. What I thought too. It's too expensive really to be the empowering technology they claim. Government grants and stuff. I get the idea the original process they copied in Tuvalu might be more interesting. Also they talk about all copra being exported for processing and the evils thereof, but that's not the case. They also talk of local traditional uses, which must mean local extraction. I have the impression local extraction is fairly ubiquitous. I'm sure there is local extracting and probably small-scale local plants in India, for instance. Maybe this needs more work. They seem to have done only half the job, breaking off when they had enough for a business proposition to put to funders. Also I don't quite see how it can be an all-weather technique as claimed and produce the oil within hours of picking if it includes a solar drier. Nonetheless, very interesting, thanks again. According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are the two highest producers: Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287 oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635 soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48 rapeseed - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever >Don't know whether >they have patented the process or not. I'm sure they must have. I wonder if the Tuvalu folks get a cut? They need it, I think their island is sinking because of climate change. >Also don't know the fat percentage in copra but maybe someone else in this >forum does. > >Regarding what planet I come from and how many hands there are? Well, >perhaps the third rock, and if you cover both eyes with your hands, then you >really do need a third one! Need I say what for? No, no need! Sorry, Hanns, it's the editor in me. Anyway, try covering both eyes with one hand, much easier to cheat and peer between the fingers that way. :-) The message #, by the way, doesn't come with the emails. The messages are numbered at the list website, and it really helps to have the number if you're searching for a particular item in the archives as there's a number search box. Best Keith Addison Journey to Forever Handmade Projects Tokyo http://journeytoforever.org/ >Cheers, > >Hanns > >-Original Message- >From: Keith Addison [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Friday, 18 May 2001 1:15 AM >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow > > >Hello Hanns > >Thanks very much for this info. > > >Keith et al, > > > >One of the problems using palm oil might be its relatively high cost. The > >current (very low) FOB price in PNG is about $US240/tonne but it has gone >as > >high as $US600/tonne in previous years. The cost of production is Indonesia > >is about $US127/tonne whilst in PNG it is about $US225/tonne. These are > >figures using large scale extraction plants. The small scale figures are > >much higher. So the question with palm oil is to get the numbers right. > >Hence my leaning towards large scale production. > > > >On the other hand coconut oil may well be a quite different story. The >copra > >market has been very depressed for a long time and is likely to remain so. > >Also copra produces dirty low quality oil and has to be refined at > >considerable energy cost to make it useable. There is however a very small > >scale (village based) cold pressed extraction process called DME (Direct > >Micro Expelling) that produces an extremely high quality oil with < 0.2% >FFA > >and about 0.1% moisture and volatile matter. It is very clear and leaves no > >residue or staining on a Whatman No. 4 (or equivalent) filter paper. I am > >wondering whether this oil could be used direct (without esterification) in > >diesel engines. > >Could you tell us a bit more about DME? Any oils can be used direct, >with a dual fuel system so you can start up and shut down on either >diesel or biodiesel to prevent coking. In Thailand they're using a >mixture of both palm and coconut oil with dinodiesel (different >ratios for the
RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow
Thanks, Hanns -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, 19 May 2001 3:45 AM To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow Please respond to biofuel@yahoogroups.com To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com cc:(bcc: Joseph Martelle/US/GM/GMC) Subject: RE: Palm and coconut oil - was RE: [biofuel] Tallow According to our yield tables, by the way, coconut and oil palm are the two highest producers: Crop - kg oil/ha - litres oil/ha - lbs oil/acre - USgal/acre coconut - 2260 - 2689 - 2018 - 287 oil palm - 5000 - 5950 - 4465 - 635 soybean - 375 - 446 - 335 - 48 rapeseed - 1000 - 1190 - 893 - 127 http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_yield.html Vegetable oil yields tables: Journey to Forever >>>What about that Jerusalem artichoke I've read about? Fairly high yielding? What we need is for those genetic engineers to to start looking at soybean, rapeseed, peanut, or other oil producing plant and modifying the genome to produce more oil than fruit.Can you imagine doubling or tripling the oil yeild from rapeseed or soybeans? Has anyone even considered research in this area? Just my wild musings. Joe. Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
