Re: [biofuel] RE: Thinking about buying a car?

[Andrew Layton]

>   Fiat - Nothing.

Nothing to give.


FIAT owns Case New Holland, one of the largest agricultural equipment
producers in this country.  I suppose that gives them an automatic pass on
the "investment in America" excuse.


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

That's for sure.

Consider  hire delivery. No, really. There are many times I have caught
myself thinking I needed to buy something to get a job done, or own
something...when occasional use really dictates that renting or simply
hiring a service makes more sense.

(From someone who once hauled a steel tandem  trailer full of boards down
the 401 to Toronto, with a Mazda diesel...and thought about those little wee
brakes, and no trailer brakes, after under way..what a juggernaut!)

 Very dangerous. And that was on flat ground. Never again!...The Mazda, like
most little diesels, would pull anything.

 Stopping it in a hurry was going to be the problem! No joke if someone
pulls out in front of you.)

Edward Beggs
www.biofuels.ca


> From: Steve W <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Thu, 06 Dec 2001 20:00:54 -0800 (PST)
> To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?
> 
> Hello,
> Just a quick safety tip to remind all that
> many cars can pull more than they can safely
> stop.  Be careful not to pull more down the
> highway than the vehical is rated for.  Not that
> I'm saying you did anything wrong, I don't know
> what year car or where you did this, but I just
> don't want anyone hooking up a couple of tons to
> a Jetta like mine and heading for a trip in the
> mountians.  They would jack knife and burn up
> something I'm sure.
> 
> Steve W
>>> 
>>> Hmm. A trailer, maybe? I've pulled 2000 lbs
>> of gravel with a Golf. It was
>> a
>>> B$%$# to get it moving, but I only needed to
>> do this a couple of times, so
>>> it wasn't worth getting a 3$ pile of junk
>> pickup.
>>> 
> 
> 
> =
> Steve
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> 
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> 


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Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Steve W]

Hello,
   Just a quick safety tip to remind all that
many cars can pull more than they can safely
stop.  Be careful not to pull more down the
highway than the vehical is rated for.  Not that
I'm saying you did anything wrong, I don't know
what year car or where you did this, but I just
don't want anyone hooking up a couple of tons to
a Jetta like mine and heading for a trip in the
mountians.  They would jack knife and burn up
something I'm sure.

Steve W
> >
> > Hmm. A trailer, maybe? I've pulled 2000 lbs
> of gravel with a Golf. It was
> a
> > B$%$# to get it moving, but I only needed to
> do this a couple of times, so
> > it wasn't worth getting a 3$ pile of junk
> pickup.
> >


=
Steve
[EMAIL PROTECTED]

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Fwd: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Steve W]

Hello,
   My 1987 VW Jetta is rated to pull 1000 lbs.  A
hitch for $50 and a wagon for $200 and I can do
99.9 % of the driving jobs that a pickup is asked
to do.  Pickups are a big waste for all but of
the few users who really need them.  A VW pickup
is rated to pull or carry 1000 lbs also.

Steve W
> 
> too bad vw doesn't make anything I can put 1000
> lbs of cargo in. I'll buy
> the Ford thanks.
> 
> Steve Spence


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[biofuel] US drivers in SUV gas-guzzling buying spree

[Keith Addison]

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/13620/story.htm
Planet Ark Environmental News:
US drivers in SUV gas-guzzling buying spree

USA: December 7, 2001

NEW YORK - U.S. drivers are buying gasoline at a feverish clip 
despite the nation's recession, due largely to low pump prices and an 
autumn buying rush for gas-guzzling SUVs, analysts said this week.

"Americans are driving more in less-efficient vehicles," automobile 
expert Mike Lucky of John S. Herold Inc. said. "Sales of SUVs and 
pickup trucks have been amazingly strong considering the recession, 
and low pump prices are keeping people on the roads."

Gasoline consumption for November averaged about 8.6 million barrels 
per day, up nearly 3 percent from last year, according to the 
American Petroleum Institute (API), despite a recession.

The robust gasoline demand comes amid a steep drop in retail pump 
prices to two-year lows of $1.12 a gallon and amid a dramatic 
increase in sales of sport utility vehicles and pickup trucks - some 
of the least fuel-efficient automobiles on the market.

Bargain financing deals by big automakers have helped push sales of 
SUVs and light pickup trucks 13.7 percent higher than last year for 
the month of November, according to the U.S. Commerce Department. 
Meanwhile, half of the 20 best-selling automobiles so far this year 
have been trucks or SUVs, including the mammoth GMC Sierra and Dodge 
Ram pickup, according to data reported by automakers.

"The rate of purchase for new fuel inefficient vehicles is far 
outpacing the rate of retirement for older automobiles," said Lucky. 
According to the Federal Highway Administration, the number of 
vehicles on the road grew by 5.2 million between 1999 and 2000.

In October, the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency said that 
Americans' love affair with gas-guzzling SUVs reduced the average 
fuel mileage of all 2001 model year vehicles to 20.4 miles per 
gallon, the lowest in two decades.

The trend could become a curse to the the nation's energy 
infrastructure, which over the past two years struggled desperately 
to overcome regional fuel shortages due to refinery and pipeline 
outages.

"The lowest fuel economy since 1980 can be attributed to the increase 
in light trucks on America's roads," the EPA said in a statement. 
"Light trucks are less fuel efficient."

The current Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, first adopted 
by Congress in 1975 after the Arab oil embargo, require passenger 
cars to average 27.5 miles per gallon and light trucks to average 
20.7 mpg.

At the time, light trucks were allowed to get lower mileage because 
they were used mostly by farmers and small businesses.

If auto manufacturers increased fuel economy by as little as three 
miles per gallon, consumers would save as much as $25 billion a year 
in fuel costs, the EPA said.

That modest increase in fuel efficiency, the agency said, would also 
reduce 140 million tonnes of carbon dioxide emissions per year and 
cut the United States' reliance on foreign oil by 1 million barrels 
of oil each day - a boon as heightened tensions in the Mideast raise 
fears of a disruption in crude supply.

Senate Democrats introduced a broad energy bill this week that seeks, 
in part, to boost vehicle fuel efficiency but said that any change 
could not take effect until the 2004 model year is introduced.

The legislation does not set specific fuel mileage requirements for 
vehicles. That language will be added to the bill after the Senate 
Commerce Committee approves a new standard, they said.

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE

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[biofuel] US fuel standard can't be raised until 2004 models

[Keith Addison]

http://www.planetark.org/dailynewsstory.cfm/newsid/13614/story.htm
Planet Ark Environmental News:
US fuel standard can't be raised until 2004 models

USA: December 7, 2001

WASHINGTON - While Senate Democrats want to boost federal fuel 
mileage requirements for passengers cars and sport utility vehicles, 
any change could not take effect until the 2004 model year is 
introduced, at the earliest.

Senate Democrats introduced a broad energy bill this week that seeks, 
in part, to boost vehicle fuel efficiency. Separately, the 
Transportation Department will soon begin reviewing whether to raise 
fuel requirements.

Current law requires the Transportation Department to notify 
automakers of changes in fuel standards at least 18 months before the 
start of a new model year.

With new vehicles traditionally introduced Oct. 1, the first model 
year that could reflect any change in fuel standards would be 2004, 
which will be in showrooms in October 2003. The government would have 
to notify automakers of that change by April 2002.

The Senate Democrats' legislation does not set specific fuel mileage 
requirements for vehicles. That language will be added to the bill 
after the Senate Commerce Committee approves a new standard, they 
said.

The Senate committee is due to launch that process yesterday with a 
hearing on vehicle fuel efficiency. Gasoline demand accounts for more 
than 40 percent of U.S. petroleum use.

A draft of the Senate bill circulated earlier among lawmakers 
included a provision, which was later removed, that would have 
required the fuel efficiency of automobiles built between 2007 and 
2010 be raised to 36 miles per gallon while boosting the standard for 
light trucks to 27.5 mpg.

The current Corporate Average Fuel Economy standards, adopted by 
Congress in 1975 after the Arab oil embargo, require passenger cars 
to get an average 27.5 miles per gallon and light trucks to get 20.7 
mpg.

At the time, light trucks were allowed to get lower mileage because 
they were used mostly by farmers and small businesses. Now, sport 
utility vehicles and other light trucks account for half of U.S. 
vehicle sales.

Senate Majority Leader Tom Daschle, Democrat of South Dakota, said 
this week he favors closing the SUV loophole.

REUTERS NEWS SERVICE


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Jean-Leon Morin]

Ahh,

I knew we could find some common ground...

The only problem with a Unimog is that my girlfriend would probably borrow
it all the time. The first ride she got in a 404 got her hooked. She wants
one as soon as she's done university...

J-L


> The Mercedes Unimog is a decent little truck.
>
> Steve Spence
> Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
> http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm
>
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> Human powered devices, equipment, and transport -
> http://24.190.106.81:8383/2000/humanpower.htm
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> - Original Message -
> From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:51 PM
> Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?
>
>
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "Jean-Leon Morin"  > Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?
> >
> >
> > >
> > >But then again, you can't BUY a truck anymore. You have to
> > > build it as all the "trucks" have long ago left the market, having
been
> > > replaced by luxo-utes with thin tin boxes bolted on to the frame,
> > >
> >
> > Thats why when I need a "Truck", I buy a used military  "duce and a
half".
> > Built with steel.
> >
> > Greg H.
> >
> >
> >
> > Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] EDF newsletter (excerpts)

[steve spence]

mighty shortsighted of them.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Anton Berteaux" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Wednesday, December 05, 2001 10:23 PM
Subject: RE: [biofuel] EDF newsletter (excerpts)


> they don't have diesel models!
> anton
>
> Our easy-to-use search tool Tailpipe Tally allows you to compare the
> environmental and economic costs of different vehicles. Simply select
> basic information like model year (1978 to 2001) and make, and you
> will see the average amount of fuel the car consumes in a year, the
> cost, and its average annual emissions. When you see how much fuel
> efficient cars (like the gasoline-electric, hybrid Toyota Prius
> driven by our own Executive Director Fred Krupp) slash carbon dioxide
> emissions, hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, you will want to make
> your voice heard by U.S. car companies via the Clean Car Pledge.
>
> Compare vehicles on
>  1t0AF>
> Tailpipe Tally.
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[steve spence]

The Mercedes Unimog is a decent little truck.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Greg and April" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:51 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?


>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Jean-Leon Morin"  Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?
>
>
> >
> >But then again, you can't BUY a truck anymore. You have to
> > build it as all the "trucks" have long ago left the market, having been
> > replaced by luxo-utes with thin tin boxes bolted on to the frame,
> >
>
> Thats why when I need a "Truck", I buy a used military  "duce and a half".
> Built with steel.
>
> Greg H.
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Plant construction ??

[steve spence]

I highly recommend Russ. He is a personal friend.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Thor Skov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 6:42 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Plant construction ??


> Bob,
>
> One person I can think of is Russ Teall at Biodiesel
> Industries.  His email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> I'm curious to know what you found from the businesses
> you contacted.  How much did they want for their
> plans?  Were they willing to sell designs outright or
> were they interested in joint ventures.
>
> Best,
>
> Thor Skov
>
>
>
> --- Bob Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Need help locating company's providing BD plant
> > design with a min
> > capacity of 200,000 gallons a year. We have
> > contacted Pacific BD and
> > Energea are their others ???
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been
> > removed]
> >
> >
>
>
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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Keith Addison]

>too bad vw doesn't make anything I can put 1000 lbs of cargo in. I'll buy
>the Ford thanks.
>
>Steve Spence
>Subscribe to the Renewable Energy Newsletter:
>http://www.webconx.com/subscribe.htm

But they do. I'd rather have this, any day:
http://www.autoweb.com.au/start_75/showall_/id_VWN/doc_vwg9804201/article.html
Volkswagen First with the Clean, Green, Diesel Machine
The Volkswagen Transporter Diesel Range

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[steve spence]

I leave you to your anti American truck rantings. Your claims don't match my
experiences.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 5:27 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?


> > too bad vw doesn't make anything I can put 1000 lbs of cargo in. I'll
buy
> > the Ford thanks.
>
> Hmm. A trailer, maybe? I've pulled 2000 lbs of gravel with a Golf. It was
a
> B$%$# to get it moving, but I only needed to do this a couple of times, so
> it wasn't worth getting a 3$ pile of junk pickup.
>
> The lame-est clause of them all. I need a truck because I haul a lot of
> stuff. Right. You and every guy driving powerstroke fords, and cummins
> dodges.
>
> Of course, if you are one of the 2% of pickup truck drivers that actually
> use their vehicles and load them to capacity ON A REGULAR BASIS, the
comment
> is cordially withdrawn. I would however be interested in hearing your
> service history for the vehicle...
>
> Your brand new US pickup will beat itself to death with a half ton in the
> box. That nice big diesel three quarter ton truck will die a horrible
death
> if you actually work if for what it's "designed for". Most people who
spend
> 30K on a new truck, expecting it to work hard, get nasty surprises... I
> spend enough time getting yelled at by fleet managers and owners who can't
> believe their new Dodges need another front end rebuild.
>
> The front end, suspension, body, chassis, and most of the driveline on
these
> vehicles are built TO FAIL. They have all sorts of built in deficiencies
> that make them simply let go so you pay for servicing. Of course, the
axles
> look big. The chassis looks strong. They can tow a lot of weight. But
> underneath they are as much of a cash cow as a Dodge Neon or a Cavalier.
> Built to fail, to make bucks for the auto service industry.
>
> Now, if you'd like me to name some real vehicles, I can definitely do so.
> Unfortunately most of these companies have since gone the way of the
> dodo-bird, or have gone upscale, building 4x4 SUV's for rich moms and
dads.
> Building trucks that last is bad business practice.
>
> Even highway rigs are getting to this point - built in inefficiencies.
> Lighter weight. Computers. What everyone from fleet managers to the
average
> joe needs to realise is that one teardown or repair to fix problems with
> these built in innefficiencies costs more than to pay the extra 5% fuel
cost
> over the life of the vehicle.
>
> Plus, the environmental cost of building a whole vehicle to replace an old
> one (which would simply need to be rebuilt and repaired) is incredible. If
> cars were built to last and be serviced, they would be easy to keep going.
> However, a larger idea prevails - gouging you for all you've got.
>
> I admit a VW is about as useless a vehicle as a Ford Mustang for someone
who
> needs a truck. But then again, you can't BUY a truck anymore. You have to
> build it as all the "trucks" have long ago left the market, having been
> replaced by luxo-utes with thin tin boxes bolted on to the frame, and most
> people don't need a Ford F250, they simply have to figure out that driving
a
> big empty pickup is a sign of stupidity, not coolness.
>
> J-L
>
>
>
>
>
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[biofuel] UNSUSBSCRIBE

[Andrew Hummel]

UNSUBSCRIBE





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Re: [biofuel] Plant construction ??

[Thor Skov]

Bob,

One person I can think of is Russ Teall at Biodiesel
Industries.  His email is [EMAIL PROTECTED]

I'm curious to know what you found from the businesses
you contacted.  How much did they want for their
plans?  Were they willing to sell designs outright or
were they interested in joint ventures.

Best,

Thor Skov



--- Bob Walker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Need help locating company's providing BD plant
> design with a min
> capacity of 200,000 gallons a year. We have
> contacted Pacific BD and
> Energea are their others ???
> 
> [Non-text portions of this message have been
> removed]
> 
> 


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Jean-Leon Morin]

Well,

I must admit, a Deuce is a little extreme, but I'd sure as heck call that a
truck. Although it is a little extreme for daily use.

I must stress the fact that I'm not some tobacco chewing redneck that drives
a lifted chrome plated chevy. I'm not simply sitting on my porch yelling
that they "aint what the' used ta be grumbl bruml". I see some serious and
protentially disastrous concequences with how the planet is leaning towards
heavy, heavy vehicles that exude an "image".

On the other hand, I do not own an economy car. I don't plan to. I would
kill an economy car, and it would kill me. I view a 600 lbs Lincoln gas
powered welder as carry-on luggage, and my truck doesn't seem to mind. I
have been known to pull 20 000 lbs around a yard with it in low range. Again
not much fuss.

Oh, did I mention it came from the factory with 77 horsepower, 35 years ago?

J-L


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Greg and April]

- Original Message -
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" 
>But then again, you can't BUY a truck anymore. You have to
> build it as all the "trucks" have long ago left the market, having been
> replaced by luxo-utes with thin tin boxes bolted on to the frame,
>

Thats why when I need a "Truck", I buy a used military  "duce and a half".
Built with steel.

Greg H.


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Jean-Leon Morin]

> too bad vw doesn't make anything I can put 1000 lbs of cargo in. I'll buy
> the Ford thanks.

Hmm. A trailer, maybe? I've pulled 2000 lbs of gravel with a Golf. It was a
B$%$# to get it moving, but I only needed to do this a couple of times, so
it wasn't worth getting a 3$ pile of junk pickup.

The lame-est clause of them all. I need a truck because I haul a lot of
stuff. Right. You and every guy driving powerstroke fords, and cummins
dodges.

Of course, if you are one of the 2% of pickup truck drivers that actually
use their vehicles and load them to capacity ON A REGULAR BASIS, the comment
is cordially withdrawn. I would however be interested in hearing your
service history for the vehicle...

Your brand new US pickup will beat itself to death with a half ton in the
box. That nice big diesel three quarter ton truck will die a horrible death
if you actually work if for what it's "designed for". Most people who spend
30K on a new truck, expecting it to work hard, get nasty surprises... I
spend enough time getting yelled at by fleet managers and owners who can't
believe their new Dodges need another front end rebuild.

The front end, suspension, body, chassis, and most of the driveline on these
vehicles are built TO FAIL. They have all sorts of built in deficiencies
that make them simply let go so you pay for servicing. Of course, the axles
look big. The chassis looks strong. They can tow a lot of weight. But
underneath they are as much of a cash cow as a Dodge Neon or a Cavalier.
Built to fail, to make bucks for the auto service industry.

Now, if you'd like me to name some real vehicles, I can definitely do so.
Unfortunately most of these companies have since gone the way of the
dodo-bird, or have gone upscale, building 4x4 SUV's for rich moms and dads.
Building trucks that last is bad business practice.

Even highway rigs are getting to this point - built in inefficiencies.
Lighter weight. Computers. What everyone from fleet managers to the average
joe needs to realise is that one teardown or repair to fix problems with
these built in innefficiencies costs more than to pay the extra 5% fuel cost
over the life of the vehicle.

Plus, the environmental cost of building a whole vehicle to replace an old
one (which would simply need to be rebuilt and repaired) is incredible. If
cars were built to last and be serviced, they would be easy to keep going.
However, a larger idea prevails - gouging you for all you've got.

I admit a VW is about as useless a vehicle as a Ford Mustang for someone who
needs a truck. But then again, you can't BUY a truck anymore. You have to
build it as all the "trucks" have long ago left the market, having been
replaced by luxo-utes with thin tin boxes bolted on to the frame, and most
people don't need a Ford F250, they simply have to figure out that driving a
big empty pickup is a sign of stupidity, not coolness.

J-L




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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[steve spence]

too bad vw doesn't make anything I can put 1000 lbs of cargo in. I'll buy
the Ford thanks.

Steve Spence
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[EMAIL PROTECTED]
- Original Message -
From: "Jean-Leon Morin" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, December 06, 2001 4:45 PM
Subject: Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?


>
> > Yes, that big diesel powerstoke to run WVO- biodiesel.. Got to help the
> > economy and keep some dollars in the states.
> >
> Or ,what you could do is NOT buy a diesel powerstroke. Boycott american
> cars, buy a Volkswagen TDI and make people aware of the beauty of small
> diesels. Then, maybe, one day, you'll see a Diesel Ford Focus on the lot.
>
> Then you'd be helping the environment.  By buying a fat, large, stupidly
> obese truck, you'll be hurting the environment even more, even if you run
it
> on moose farts. The 30L of coolant that cools the massive beast, 10L of
> motor oil that gets dumped every 3k miles, the assorted gear oil boxes for
> hte T case and front axles, and Big Ass (TM) tires that wear out waay too
> quick will be a grand help to our environment. Not to mention the 7.3L of
> heat that you'll be inputting into the atmosphere to help melt the polar
> icecaps. Bravo, where do I sign up?
>
> Not to mention that when that Ford junkpile is worn out at a mere 200K
miles
> and 10 years, you'll send it to the chipper to be recycled. The 800 lbs of
> plastic contained in it will be shredded and become non-biodegradable
waste,
> to sit and wait. Of it'll be melted into something, spewing tons of crap
> into the atmosphere.
>
> Buying new car is definitely equivalent to environmental destruction.
Buying
> a fat, lazy, sluggy, ugly Ford F250 is the equivalent of buying three
cars.
> The AMERICAN cars, for that matter.
>
> J-L
>
>
>
>
>
> Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
> http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
> Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
> To unsubscribe, send an email to:
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>
> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
>
>
>


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Re: [biofuel] Thinking about buying a car?

[Jean-Leon Morin]

> Yes, that big diesel powerstoke to run WVO- biodiesel.. Got to help the
> economy and keep some dollars in the states.
>
Or ,what you could do is NOT buy a diesel powerstroke. Boycott american
cars, buy a Volkswagen TDI and make people aware of the beauty of small
diesels. Then, maybe, one day, you'll see a Diesel Ford Focus on the lot.

Then you'd be helping the environment.  By buying a fat, large, stupidly
obese truck, you'll be hurting the environment even more, even if you run it
on moose farts. The 30L of coolant that cools the massive beast, 10L of
motor oil that gets dumped every 3k miles, the assorted gear oil boxes for
hte T case and front axles, and Big Ass (TM) tires that wear out waay too
quick will be a grand help to our environment. Not to mention the 7.3L of
heat that you'll be inputting into the atmosphere to help melt the polar
icecaps. Bravo, where do I sign up?

Not to mention that when that Ford junkpile is worn out at a mere 200K miles
and 10 years, you'll send it to the chipper to be recycled. The 800 lbs of
plastic contained in it will be shredded and become non-biodegradable waste,
to sit and wait. Of it'll be melted into something, spewing tons of crap
into the atmosphere.

Buying new car is definitely equivalent to environmental destruction. Buying
a fat, lazy, sluggy, ugly Ford F250 is the equivalent of buying three cars.
The AMERICAN cars, for that matter.

J-L




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Re: [biofuel] RE: Thinking about buying a car?

[Kevin Hamilton]

Screw the car companies. I can't believe this message
is even posted.  I mean come on, they just jump on the
patriotic bandwagon with everyone else.

-- "Alan S. Petrillo" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> "Mark E. Wishart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> >  Which Motor Co.  Cares About the USA?
> 
> Or at least who wants to look like they "care" about
> the USA.  
> 
> All of the ones that make money over here.  And it's
> the money they care
> about.  And that's especially including the Big 3!  
> 
> >   Aston Martin - Nothing.
> 
> Not suprizing.  They don't have much to contribute. 
> 
>   
> >   Audi - Nothing.  Audi's web site states "Audi
> News:
> >  Always up to the minute."
> 
> See Volkswagen, since they own Audi.  
>   
> >   BMW - Nothing despite other press
> releases/postings
> >  since 09/11/01.
> >   Last updated 09/13/01.
> 
> Hardly suprizing.  The family that owns BMW is too
> dignified to attempt
> to proffit from 9-11.  
> 
> >   Daewoo International - Nothing.
> 
> Again, they don't really have anything to give.  And
> indeed it would
> probably be Daewoo Of America doing the giving, if
> they had anything to
> give.  
>   
> >   Daimler Chrysler (includes Dodge, Jeep,
> Mercedes-Benz
> >  and Plymouth)$10 million to support the children
> and
> >  victims in addition to other donations from their
> >  employees, dealers and suppliers.
> 
> They probably took that out of petty cash.  They
> probably spend that
> much on advertizing on any given sunday during the
> football games.  And
> I'm sure it came out of the advertizing budget.  
>   
> >   Fiat - Nothing.
> 
> Nothing to give.  
>   
> >   Ford Motor Company (includes Jaguar, Lincoln,
> Mazda,
> >  Mercury and Volvo) $1 million to the American Red
> >  Cross, matching employee contributions to the
> American
> >  Red Cross and 10 Excursions to the New York Fire
> >  Department.
> >   The company has also offered emergency response
> team
> >  services and office space to displaced government
> >  employees.
> 
> Hmm...  A whole _million_ dollars.  That's probably
> what they spend on
> advertizing during a single football game.  
> 
> >   General Motors (includes Buick, Cadillac,
> Chevrolet,
> >  Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn) -- $1
> million to the American Red
> >  Cross, matching employee contributions and a
> fleet of
> >  vans, trucks and SUVs.
> 
> Again, a whole _million_ dollars. 
> Ooooh!  Take it out of
> petty cash!  
>   
> >   Harley-Davidson Motor Cycles - Donated one
> million
> >  dollars and 30 new motorcycles to the NYPD to
> assist
> >  in relief efforts and replace motor cycles lost
> in the
> >  attack.  Harley-Davidson's own employees drove
> the
> >  cycles to NY in a day and a half and turned over
> the
> >  keys personally to the NYC Motor Division.  Check
> out
> >  their website at www.harleydavidson.com for info
> and
> >  pictures of their generosity.
> 
> Well, as much money as HD has poured into the V-Rod,
> I'm kind of
> suprized they had anything left.  But then when
> they're selling
> motorcycles for 4 times the price of the competition
> they can afford to
> give more.  
>   
> >   Honda (includes Acura) - Nothing.
> >   "The latest news on Honda can always be found
> right
> >  here?" No press releases/postings since 9/04/01
> when
> >  the release boasted "American Honda Motor Co.,
> Inc. 
> >  recorded its second best sales month ever in
> August."
> >   My search included: hondamotorcycle.com [other
> press
> >  releases posted on this site since 9/11/01),
> >  honda.com, honda2001.com, world.honda.com,
> acura.com
> >  and honda.co.jp.
> 
> But keep in mind, Honda builds all of their US
> market cars over here. 
> Of 96% or so US parts.  In fact they build so many
> cars over here that
> they are a net exporter.  In doing this they keep
> many thousands of
> Americans employed, and add much to our economy. 
> Not to mention their
> legendary quality and reliability has dragged the
> Big 3 kicking and
> screaming into building better quality products.  If
> their multi billion
> dollar investment in the US economy doesn't say
> caring, what does?  
> 
> >   Hyundai Motors Group (includes Kia) -- $300,000
> to
> >  the American 
> >  Red Cross.
> 
> Wow.  Hyundai could actually afford to give
> something?  I'm impressed.  
> 
> >   Isuzu - Nothing.
> 
> See General Motors, since GM owns 49% of the
> company.  
>   
> >   Mitsubishi Motors - Nothing
> Mitsubishi-motors.co.jp
> >  site states, "The latest news about Mitsubishi
> >  Motors."  I also searched mitsubishimotors.com.
> 
> See Daimler-Chrysler since they own a controlling
> interest in the
> company.  
>   
> >   Nissan - Nothing despite other press
> >  releases/postings since 09/11/01.
> 
> But while you're at it, don't miss the fact that
> Nissan has been
> building vehicles in the US since 1960, and in fact
> build all of their
> US market vehicles in 4 plants in Tennessee.  Thus
> keeping thousands of
> Ameri

[biofuel] Senate pushes renewables

[Neoteric Biofuels Inc.]

http://library.northernlight.com/HC2001120549015.html?cb=0&dx=1006&sc=0#
doc 

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[biofuel] RE: Thinking about buying a car?

[Alan S. Petrillo]

"Mark E. Wishart" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

>  Which Motor Co.  Cares About the USA?

Or at least who wants to look like they "care" about the USA.  

All of the ones that make money over here.  And it's the money they care
about.  And that's especially including the Big 3!  

>   Aston Martin - Nothing.

Not suprizing.  They don't have much to contribute.  
  
>   Audi - Nothing.  Audi's web site states "Audi News:
>  Always up to the minute."

See Volkswagen, since they own Audi.  
  
>   BMW - Nothing despite other press releases/postings
>  since 09/11/01.
>   Last updated 09/13/01.

Hardly suprizing.  The family that owns BMW is too dignified to attempt
to proffit from 9-11.  

>   Daewoo International - Nothing.

Again, they don't really have anything to give.  And indeed it would
probably be Daewoo Of America doing the giving, if they had anything to
give.  
  
>   Daimler Chrysler (includes Dodge, Jeep, Mercedes-Benz
>  and Plymouth)$10 million to support the children and
>  victims in addition to other donations from their
>  employees, dealers and suppliers.

They probably took that out of petty cash.  They probably spend that
much on advertizing on any given sunday during the football games.  And
I'm sure it came out of the advertizing budget.  
  
>   Fiat - Nothing.

Nothing to give.  
  
>   Ford Motor Company (includes Jaguar, Lincoln, Mazda,
>  Mercury and Volvo) $1 million to the American Red
>  Cross, matching employee contributions to the American
>  Red Cross and 10 Excursions to the New York Fire
>  Department.
>   The company has also offered emergency response team
>  services and office space to displaced government
>  employees.

Hmm...  A whole _million_ dollars.  That's probably what they spend on
advertizing during a single football game.  

>   General Motors (includes Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet,
>  Oldsmobile, Pontiac, Saab and Saturn) -- $1 million to the American Red
>  Cross, matching employee contributions and a fleet of
>  vans, trucks and SUVs.

Again, a whole _million_ dollars.  Ooooh!  Take it out of
petty cash!  
  
>   Harley-Davidson Motor Cycles - Donated one million
>  dollars and 30 new motorcycles to the NYPD to assist
>  in relief efforts and replace motor cycles lost in the
>  attack.  Harley-Davidson's own employees drove the
>  cycles to NY in a day and a half and turned over the
>  keys personally to the NYC Motor Division.  Check out
>  their website at www.harleydavidson.com for info and
>  pictures of their generosity.

Well, as much money as HD has poured into the V-Rod, I'm kind of
suprized they had anything left.  But then when they're selling
motorcycles for 4 times the price of the competition they can afford to
give more.  
  
>   Honda (includes Acura) - Nothing.
>   "The latest news on Honda can always be found right
>  here?" No press releases/postings since 9/04/01 when
>  the release boasted "American Honda Motor Co., Inc. 
>  recorded its second best sales month ever in August."
>   My search included: hondamotorcycle.com [other press
>  releases posted on this site since 9/11/01),
>  honda.com, honda2001.com, world.honda.com, acura.com
>  and honda.co.jp.

But keep in mind, Honda builds all of their US market cars over here. 
Of 96% or so US parts.  In fact they build so many cars over here that
they are a net exporter.  In doing this they keep many thousands of
Americans employed, and add much to our economy.  Not to mention their
legendary quality and reliability has dragged the Big 3 kicking and
screaming into building better quality products.  If their multi billion
dollar investment in the US economy doesn't say caring, what does?  

>   Hyundai Motors Group (includes Kia) -- $300,000 to
>  the American 
>  Red Cross.

Wow.  Hyundai could actually afford to give something?  I'm impressed.  

>   Isuzu - Nothing.

See General Motors, since GM owns 49% of the company.  
  
>   Mitsubishi Motors - Nothing Mitsubishi-motors.co.jp
>  site states, "The latest news about Mitsubishi
>  Motors."  I also searched mitsubishimotors.com.

See Daimler-Chrysler since they own a controlling interest in the
company.  
  
>   Nissan - Nothing despite other press
>  releases/postings since 09/11/01.

But while you're at it, don't miss the fact that Nissan has been
building vehicles in the US since 1960, and in fact build all of their
US market vehicles in 4 plants in Tennessee.  Thus keeping thousands of
Americans employed.  And they are a net exporter from the US, thus
increasing the strength of the US economy.  
  
>   Porsche - Nothing.  Press release with condolences
>  posted on the Porsche web site on 09/12/01, but no
>  contribution.

See Volkswagen.  
  
>   Subaru - Nothing.  Despite other press
>  releases/postings since
>  09/11/01.

See General Motors.
 
>   Suzuki - Nothing.

See General Motors.  
  
>   Toyota (includes Lexus) -Nothing.  Press release with
>  condolences posted on the Toyota web site on 09/14/01,
>  but no con

RE: [biofuel] EDF newsletter (excerpts)

[Keith Addison]

>they don't have diesel models!
>anton

Ulp... Sorry! Is EDF one of the benighted organisations that 
considers diesels beyond the pale no matter what? Only in the US... 
When are you guys gonna change yer ways?? You're getting left way 
behind!

Keith Addison
Journey to Forever
Handmade Projects
Tokyo
http://journeytoforever.org/


>Our easy-to-use search tool Tailpipe Tally allows you to compare the
>environmental and economic costs of different vehicles. Simply select
>basic information like model year (1978 to 2001) and make, and you
>will see the average amount of fuel the car consumes in a year, the
>cost, and its average annual emissions. When you see how much fuel
>efficient cars (like the gasoline-electric, hybrid Toyota Prius
>driven by our own Executive Director Fred Krupp) slash carbon dioxide
>emissions, hydrocarbons and carbon monoxide, you will want to make
>your voice heard by U.S. car companies via the Clean Car Pledge.
>
>Compare vehicles on
>1t0AF>
>Tailpipe Tally.
>
>
>
>
>Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
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