Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[John Willis]

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 2:45 AM, Dave Swarthout  wrote:
> 
> That would leave us with:
> 
> sells:photovoltaic_devices=yes/no
> sells:wind_turbines=yes/no

Seems like a good fit. I assume storage battery systems (like the Tesla 
powerpacks) will become something sold as well, so having a flexible frame to 
hold all those types and combinations is nice. I think most of these shops will 
have 2-4 sells:*, so it isn’t too big a deal. 

This also allows for stores that are not predominantly power shops to be tagged 
that they do sell them if the mapper thinks it is worth mapping.  It is rare 
for the big-box “electronics” shops here to sell them, but smaller “electric” 
shops (the old mom franchised outlets from a single manufacturer) offer 
weird mixes of stuff, including full solar installations. 
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[John Willis]

> On Aug 2, 2017, at 12:06 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:
> 
> shop=power_equipment
> power_equpiment="(photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc)"
> (NOT power=

Yea, you guys are right. My mistake. 

Javbw

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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

@John, I like the direction this is going but there are valid objections to
using the word power to begin the tag. I think there will be a need to
create a new shop tag either way.

Furthermore, shop=power_equipment is in use already and although there's no
Wiki entry for it, a quick Overpass query indicates it's being used for
shops that sell power tools like electric saws, lawnmowers and the like.
Consequently, I'm inclined to use shop=power_generators. However, as for
adapting SwimFast's method for the dependent tags, again I would be
reluctant to use power_generator=wind, etc., because of the existing focus
on power generating facilities for that tag.

That being said and because so much controversy surrounds using semicolons
to separate values, how about using the much underused "sells" tag? I never
understood why that tag is not being used more than it is currently.

That would leave us with:

sells:photovoltaic_devices=yes/no
sells:wind_turbines=yes/no

Dave

On Tue, Aug 1, 2017 at 7:06 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:

> On Tue, 2017-08-01 at 20:36 +0900, John Willis wrote:
> >
> > > On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:37 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:
> > >
> > > shop=renewable_energy_equipment
> >
> >
> > This is the right idea, but I would actually go more broadly. There is
> gonna be different methods and combinations going forward.
> >
> > I would go with shop=power_generators and power=*, so any type of power
> generation can be specified (photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc), and can be
> made more specific as needed without making a new shop=* value.
> > Javbw
>
> I agree with the general idea. But using power= or generator:source=
> feels like misusing existing tags. These tags already indicate
> operational power equipment and are unfit for shops in my opinion.
>
> So, something along the lines of:
>
> shop=power_equipment
> power_equpiment="(photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc)"
> (NOT power=)
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[SwiftFast]

On Tue, 2017-08-01 at 20:36 +0900, John Willis wrote:
> 
> > On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:37 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:
> > 
> > shop=renewable_energy_equipment
> 
> 
> This is the right idea, but I would actually go more broadly. There is gonna 
> be different methods and combinations going forward. 
> 
> I would go with shop=power_generators and power=*, so any type of power 
> generation can be specified (photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc), and can be 
> made more specific as needed without making a new shop=* value. 
> Javbw 

I agree with the general idea. But using power= or generator:source=
feels like misusing existing tags. These tags already indicate
operational power equipment and are unfit for shops in my opinion.

So, something along the lines of:

shop=power_equipment
power_equpiment="(photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc)"
(NOT power=)


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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[John Willis]

> On Aug 1, 2017, at 1:37 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:
> 
> shop=renewable_energy_equipment


This is the right idea, but I would actually go more broadly. There is gonna be 
different methods and combinations going forward. 

I would go with shop=power_generators and power=*, so any type of power 
generation can be specified (photovoltaic, wind, battery, etc), and can be made 
more specific as needed without making a new shop=* value. 

If you want to stick with a single value just for solar panels, 
shop=solar_generators or similar is good. 

Solar is a common value for the power keys. We shouldn’t deviate from that 
because somewhere it means diesel fuel. It’s like the paraffin wax/fuel 
language problem, and OSM already uses “solar” to define power from the sun. 

Javbw 
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

@tomoya: I think there would be numerous valid objections to using the
generator:source tag that way. IMO it is clearly designed to describe a
power generating facility. The shop is not generating electricity; it is
selling solar equipment that might be used in a generating facility but it
does not produce power on its own.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 11:45 AM, tomoya muramoto 
wrote:

> We have already 'generator:source' tag.
> http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator
>
> So how about to use 'shop=generator' ?
> 'shop=generator' + 'generator:source=solar' means solar power generator
> seller. And we can specify a wind turbine seller also.
>



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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[tomoya muramoto]

We have already 'generator:source' tag.
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:power%3Dgenerator

So how about to use 'shop=generator' ?
'shop=generator' + 'generator:source=solar' means solar power generator
seller. And we can specify a wind turbine seller also.
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

"even solar_equipment is too limiting."

Quite right, SwiftFast. The value you suggest tells the story better.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 8:37 AM, SwiftFast  wrote:

> If we're talking about renewable energy in general, then even
> solar_equipment is too limiting. Wind turbines are not solar equipment.
>
> Maybe shop=renewable_energy_equipment ?
>
> On Mon, 2017-07-31 at 07:19 -0800, Dave Swarthout wrote:
> > The term photovoltaic refers to the mechanism used by certain solar
> devices
> > to generate electricity. In this case, it describes a device that is
> using
> > sunlight to create electricity, i.e., a photovoltaic panel. I'm asking
> > about a shop that sells photovoltaic panels along with related
> alternative
> > energy devices such as wind turbines, power controllers, battery packs,
> > solar hot-water heaters, etc. Using shop=photovoltaic would be too
> limited
> > in scope for this purpose.
> >
> > I would never have guessed that the word "solar" means diesel fuel. I am
> > leaning toward shop=solar_equipment
> >
> > Thanks for the input.
> >
> > On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> >
> > > I believe the correct expression is photovoltaic (which would exclude
> > > hot water generation etc though).
> > >
> > >
> > > Am 31.07.2017 um 09:07 schrieb SwiftFast:
> > > > The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some
> countries
> > > > and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
> > > > solar_devices instead.
> > > >
> > > >
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> > >
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[SwiftFast]

If we're talking about renewable energy in general, then even
solar_equipment is too limiting. Wind turbines are not solar equipment.

Maybe shop=renewable_energy_equipment ?

On Mon, 2017-07-31 at 07:19 -0800, Dave Swarthout wrote:
> The term photovoltaic refers to the mechanism used by certain solar devices
> to generate electricity. In this case, it describes a device that is using
> sunlight to create electricity, i.e., a photovoltaic panel. I'm asking
> about a shop that sells photovoltaic panels along with related alternative
> energy devices such as wind turbines, power controllers, battery packs,
> solar hot-water heaters, etc. Using shop=photovoltaic would be too limited
> in scope for this purpose.
> 
> I would never have guessed that the word "solar" means diesel fuel. I am
> leaning toward shop=solar_equipment
> 
> Thanks for the input.
> 
> On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:
> 
> > I believe the correct expression is photovoltaic (which would exclude
> > hot water generation etc though).
> >
> >
> > Am 31.07.2017 um 09:07 schrieb SwiftFast:
> > > The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some countries
> > > and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
> > > solar_devices instead.
> > >
> > >
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[SwiftFast]

I'm no expert but it appears the expression "photovoltaic" may exclude a
bit too much. There are solar power generation technologies which are
not based on photovoltaic cells. See this:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar-powered_Stirling_engine

However, for home or small scale use, I suspect photovoltaic is all
there is.

On Mon, 2017-07-31 at 17:02 +0200, Simon Poole wrote:
> I believe the correct expression is photovoltaic (which would exclude
> hot water generation etc though).
> 
> 
> Am 31.07.2017 um 09:07 schrieb SwiftFast:
> > The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some countries
> > and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
> > solar_devices instead.
> >
> >
> > ___
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> > https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/tagging
> 
> 
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

The term photovoltaic refers to the mechanism used by certain solar devices
to generate electricity. In this case, it describes a device that is using
sunlight to create electricity, i.e., a photovoltaic panel. I'm asking
about a shop that sells photovoltaic panels along with related alternative
energy devices such as wind turbines, power controllers, battery packs,
solar hot-water heaters, etc. Using shop=photovoltaic would be too limited
in scope for this purpose.

I would never have guessed that the word "solar" means diesel fuel. I am
leaning toward shop=solar_equipment

Thanks for the input.

On Mon, Jul 31, 2017 at 7:02 AM, Simon Poole  wrote:

> I believe the correct expression is photovoltaic (which would exclude
> hot water generation etc though).
>
>
> Am 31.07.2017 um 09:07 schrieb SwiftFast:
> > The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some countries
> > and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
> > solar_devices instead.
> >
> >
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>
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[Simon Poole]

I believe the correct expression is photovoltaic (which would exclude
hot water generation etc though).


Am 31.07.2017 um 09:07 schrieb SwiftFast:
> The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some countries
> and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
> solar_devices instead.
>
>
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Re: [Tagging] Solar shop

[SwiftFast]

The word "solar" alone is a synonym for "Diesel Fuel" in some countries
and can cause confusion. I'd advise using solar_equipment or
solar_devices instead.


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[Tagging] Solar shop

[Dave Swarthout]

I came across a shop in my town today that sells solar power generating
equipment for home and larger scale projects, .e.g, street lighting for
municipalities. There is no tagging that I can locate other than that used
for tagging power generating facilities that use solar energy.

I am considering shop=solar
or
shop=solar_equipment
or
shop=solar_devices

Suggestions, ideas?

Cheers

Dave

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