[OSM-talk] Random Hacks of Kindness
Elizabeth Sabet writes "Google, Microsoft, NASA, The World Bank, and Yahoo! are unlikely partners, but they are bringing together the best and brightest in disaster relief management and the ever-growing hacker community in a progressive initiative called Random Hacks of Kindness. Its mission is to mobilize a world-wide community of technologists to solve real-world problems through technology. RHoK is gearing up for its first world-wide 'hackathon for humanity' on June 4-6, 2010. Following last year's inaugural event in Mountain View, California, which produced software solutions that were used on the ground during the devastating earthquakes in Haiti and Chile, the partners have decided to take the effort global. RHoK engages volunteer software engineers, independent hackers, and students from around the world in a marathon weekend of hacking events and coding competitions to develop software solutions for problems posed by subject-matter experts. This first global Hackathon will feature sponsored events in Washington DC, Sydney, Nairobi, Jakarta and Sao Paulo." Here's where to go for more details or to register for the DC event. http://news.slashdot.org/story/10/05/24/2349257/Random-Hacks-of-Kindness?from=rss ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
I just got round to reading the blog/PR post about it, they said: "Nokia will be the exclusive, global provider of Yahoo!’s maps and navigation services, integrating Ovi Maps across Yahoo! properties, branded as “powered by Ovi.”" Doesn't sound like yahoo will be retaining any of their existing map data to me. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 6:49 PM, John Smith wrote: > On 25 May 2010 06:17, Gregory wrote: > > Can you point out some specific road names that Yahoo have copied from > OSM? > > Wasn't it Flickr doing the copying? > > There have been several cases where Flickr shows OSM data in its geolocation map when Yahoo Maps doesn't have data. For example: http://www.flickr.com/map/?fLat=18.567503&fLon=-72.332611&zl=5 They give proper attribution... ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
Hi, Pointing out specific names on roads around guarapari that have been rendered after I have put them into OSM is about point out all the road names they render. Also seeing that minor connecting roads that i have surveyed are identical in Yahoo and OSM while some major roads I havn't surveyed are equally missing indicates that they have no other reliable source for their data. I do not know if they REALLY have copied from OSM or if it is coencidential, but until otherwise proven, I hold a finger on them using OSM data. I have thought that they could sort of utilise our data under CC-BY since they trade with us using their satellite images, but I am no law expert, so my thoughts there might be wrong. On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 5:17 PM, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > > Aun Johnsen wrote: > >> But if Yahoo is to withdraw the right to trace their satelite images, >> than their usage of OSM map data can be a breach of the CC-BY-SA >> copyright on OSM. >> > > If they did indeed use OSM to fixe their map then CC-BY-SA would extend to > their map, not their images, and they would be in breach of the license even > today. Nothing whatsoever to do with aerial imagery. > > Plus, if they switch to Nokia they'll throw their existing data out so even > if it *had* beeen CC-BY-SA infected that would then go down the drain as > well. > > Bye > Frederik > > -- > Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] closedstreetmap.org
On 25 May 2010 00:38, Jaak Laineste wrote: > more) to OSM database in more data source-friendly way. I just don't > imagine road authorities to use plain potlach or JOSM to post "today's > works" every morning to us. And a special rendering layout, very > similar to the recent "routing bugs" layout from CloudMade. Most construction on existing road ways happens round here either during the day or during the night, depending where the work is happening, but it usually isn't 24x7 so the road closures would only be in effect some of the time. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
On 25 May 2010 06:17, Gregory wrote: > Can you point out some specific road names that Yahoo have copied from OSM? Wasn't it Flickr doing the copying? ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Richard Welty wrote: > On 5/24/10 12:52 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: >> On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Richard Welty >> wrote: >> >>> yes. there's little hope for useful defaults, the defaults vary too much >>> from place to place. >>> >> From country to country perhaps, and maybe state to state - but not >> within states. >> > in actuality, i think it varies quite a lot, but so far values have only > been entered on the OSM_tags_for_routing page for NY, Oregon, and > Wisconsin, so it's hard to say definitively. In Washington, default maxspeed by way type varies from town to town. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Detailed tagging scheme for railways - India
On 22/05/10 23:34, Liz wrote: > On Sun, 23 May 2010, Roland Olbricht wrote: >> - railway=halt is at least in Europe already frequently used with a >> different meaning: "station" designates stations where trains can begin >> or terminate. "halt" means (usually smaller) stations where trains only >> stop but legally can't begin or end. To make things worse, most mappers >> map either all stations as "station" or they map all small stations >> (regardless of their legal status) as "halt". You have a clear definition >> of the feature (not regularly served), thus I'd strongly encourage you to >> use a different value for it. > > Ahh, interesting > Station in Au means it has a platform, and implies an office, a permanent > employee and hopefully a toilet as well. Same in Ireland. There are many places tagged as station, where the train will go through, but it doesn't start or stop from. There is pretty much always a building, employees, etc. 0x5373FB61.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
Can you point out some specific road names that Yahoo have copied from OSM? Following those links to the zoomed out area I am only drawn to roads which are only in Yahoo. If Yahoo are copying OSM then I believe (without having attribution) they are in breach of OSM terms regardless of what they give us. Nobody has the ability to offer OSM without attribution. On 24 May 2010 21:04, Aun Johnsen wrote: > > But if Yahoo is to withdraw the right to trace their satelite images, > than their usage of OSM map data can be a breach of the CC-BY-SA > copyright on OSM. > > Yes, Yahoo maps uses OSM data to correct/extend their caverage, at > least in certain areas: > http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=-20.688081&lon=-40.53262&zoom=14 > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.6881&lon=-40.5326&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF > Some of the minor connecting roads around Guarapari is surveyd by me > and appeared on the yahoo map a few weeks later. Some road names have > been rendered only after I entered them in OSM, and some roads or > parts of roads have changed category after I have surveyd them for > OSM. > > A[] > > > ___ > talk mailing list > talk@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk > > -- Gregory o...@livingwithdragons.com http://www.livingwithdragons.com ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
Hi, Aun Johnsen wrote: > But if Yahoo is to withdraw the right to trace their satelite images, > than their usage of OSM map data can be a breach of the CC-BY-SA > copyright on OSM. If they did indeed use OSM to fixe their map then CC-BY-SA would extend to their map, not their images, and they would be in breach of the license even today. Nothing whatsoever to do with aerial imagery. Plus, if they switch to Nokia they'll throw their existing data out so even if it *had* beeen CC-BY-SA infected that would then go down the drain as well. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
But if Yahoo is to withdraw the right to trace their satelite images, than their usage of OSM map data can be a breach of the CC-BY-SA copyright on OSM. Yes, Yahoo maps uses OSM data to correct/extend their caverage, at least in certain areas: http://maps.yahoo.com/#mvt=m&lat=-20.688081&lon=-40.53262&zoom=14 http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=-20.6881&lon=-40.5326&zoom=13&layers=B000FTF Some of the minor connecting roads around Guarapari is surveyd by me and appeared on the yahoo map a few weeks later. Some road names have been rendered only after I entered them in OSM, and some roads or parts of roads have changed category after I have surveyd them for OSM. A[] ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Data release template letter
Hello, Is there somewhere a template letter to send to an administration to ask for some data release explaining the OSM project and the process and consequences of releasing their data in an acceptable form for OSM? Thanks, N. ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
[OSM-talk] Yahoo Maps to be provided by Nokia
"Nokia will be the exclusive, global provider of Yahoo!'s maps and navigation services" http://yhoo.client.shareholder.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?&ReleaseID=472765 Nokia, of course, owns data provider Navteq, which in the grand scheme of things is a rival to OSM. Yahoo! currently offers OSM the right to trace from its satellite imagery. cheers Richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] closedstreetmap.org
2010/5/20 Ian Dees : > On Thu, May 20, 2010 at 2:13 PM, Pieren wrote: >> >> It could be used for a special OSM slippy map of closed streets, e.g.: >> http://www.flickr.com/photos/mennonot/2602625089/ >> ;-) >> Pieren > > You may be only kidding, but I just spent an hour dodging construction > traffic here in Minneapolis. This would be great and incredibly useful for > the general public. If we exposed a simple API for municipalities to specify > which roads or road segments are under construction or closed, I bet they'd > be happy to send in data. They get frustrated when people drive on their > under construction roads, too! Righ, the issue itself is a very serious and relevant thing. Any other supporters? It might be started as a wiki page. Maybe it could be a bot which sets and un-sets tags road=construction (and maybe some more) to OSM database in more data source-friendly way. I just don't imagine road authorities to use plain potlach or JOSM to post "today's works" every morning to us. And a special rendering layout, very similar to the recent "routing bugs" layout from CloudMade. I'm reading talk-list once a month or so, please email me directly. Jaak ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osmosis question
On Mon, May 24, 2010 at 4:45 PM, Gary68 wrote: > > command: > ~/osmosis/osmosis-0.30/bin/osmosis --read-xml-0.6 > file="osmdata/hessen.osm" --way-key-value > keyValueList="highway.motorway" --write-xml-0.6 file="bab.osm" > > error: > May 24, 2010 8:43:02 AM com.bretth.osmosis.core.Osmosis main > SEVERE: Execution aborted. > com.bretth.osmosis.core.OsmosisRuntimeException: Task 2-way-key-value > does not support data provided by default pipe stored at level 1 in the > default pipe stack. > Hi Gary, The error is indicating that the way key value task can't accept the input provided by the previous task. That could be because you're trying to feed a 0.6 task into a 0.5 task. However as Frederik has pointed out, I'd recommend upgrading to the latest Osmosis. 0.30 was created during the transition from 0.5 to 0.6 and there may have been some incorrectly mapped tasks at that time. Brett ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
On 23/05/10 18:33, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > Richard Welty wrote: >> which is a perfectly good theory, and very fussy in practice. i >> am unfamiliar with any jurisdiction which enforces speed >> limits to fractions of km/h or mph. > > There are signs on the UK canals which inform the boater that the speed > limit is 6.43kph. I kid you not. Friend of mine (in UK) lives near a private road with a "4 5/7" mph speed limit. Yes that's 4 and 5 sevenths mph, and no, that's not something sensible in kmph either. Alas I don't have a pic. Rory 0x5373FB61.asc Description: application/pgp-keys signature.asc Description: OpenPGP digital signature ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
On 24 May 2010 11:33, Frederik Ramm wrote: > > My personal favourite would be to separate the concept of a country from > its geographic (and some other) properties. > > Currently people will create a relation named "France" which has all the > border lines, or border sub-relations, as members, and tags like > name:de=Frankreich and all that. > > But I'm tempted to throw in another level: Have one relation that > represents the country of France. Here you can enter all the names and > link to the Wikipedia article for France and so on. Something that > represents the city of Paris - whether that's a simple node or maybe a > relation too - cold be a member of the France relation with the role > "capital". > > Then have another relation that models the borders of France, and make > this a member of the France relation (role="borders" or so). > > Your relation, which has lots of routing/navigation parameters for > France, could also be a member of that same France relation > (role="highway_code" or something). > > And so on. Relations galore! I know some people across the channel will > grumble but they'll get used to relations some time too. > +1 I think it is the way it should be. Geographical information should be separated from data whenever possible. I think Poland and Spain relations are interesting with the way they create a hierarchy of subarea but mixing information at the same level which is plainly wrong according to me. Separating the two layers would have avoid some problems. Emilie Laffray ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
On 5/24/10 12:52 AM, Steve Bennett wrote: > On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > >> yes. there's little hope for useful defaults, the defaults vary too much >> from place to place. >> > > From country to country perhaps, and maybe state to state - but not > within states. > quite, but in the US, we're talking about 50 states. someone has written in the wiki, quite optimistically: "As far as I know, most other states vary primarily in motorway speeds. 70 and 75 mph are common. " in actuality, i think it varies quite a lot, but so far values have only been entered on the OSM_tags_for_routing page for NY, Oregon, and Wisconsin, so it's hard to say definitively. richard ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osmosis question
ok, i'll give it a try. still the error message is strange... On Mon, 2010-05-24 at 09:39 +0200, Frederik Ramm wrote: > Hi, > > Gary68 wrote: > > WHAT's wrong? > > Someone using 0.30 when 0.35 is current, that's wrong ;-) > > Bye > Frederik > ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Hi, Vincent Pottier wrote: > I know it is a risk of infinite loop for bad tools but > - the first version of the relation "definition" had no member, that is > not very convienient > - for tools keeping a list of definition, it is a way to remember to > witch area they apply > - maybe it is a way to build a "standard" def that several areas could > subscribe (for example holidays period zones of French educational > Academies that would apply to several departments) My personal favourite would be to separate the concept of a country from its geographic (and some other) properties. Currently people will create a relation named "France" which has all the border lines, or border sub-relations, as members, and tags like name:de=Frankreich and all that. But I'm tempted to throw in another level: Have one relation that represents the country of France. Here you can enter all the names and link to the Wikipedia article for France and so on. Something that represents the city of Paris - whether that's a simple node or maybe a relation too - cold be a member of the France relation with the role "capital". Then have another relation that models the borders of France, and make this a member of the France relation (role="borders" or so). Your relation, which has lots of routing/navigation parameters for France, could also be a member of that same France relation (role="highway_code" or something). And so on. Relations galore! I know some people across the channel will grumble but they'll get used to relations some time too. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Le 24/05/2010 11:20, Frederik Ramm a écrit : > Hi, > > Vincent Pottier wrote: >> I have started to implement it as a test : >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/11980 (relation France) >> http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/934933 (relation >> definition) > > I like the way in which you have created a circular reference by > making 934933 a "parent" and "child" of 11980 at the same time. It is > perfectly valid (twinned cities where each is the other's member would > be a similar situation) but many tool/editor writers handle this > poorly. Your relation will be a nice encouragement for them to fix > their code. > > Bye > Frederik > I know it is a risk of infinite loop for bad tools but - the first version of the relation "definition" had no member, that is not very convienient - for tools keeping a list of definition, it is a way to remember to witch area they apply - maybe it is a way to build a "standard" def that several areas could subscribe (for example holidays period zones of French educational Academies that would apply to several departments) -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Hi, Vincent Pottier wrote: > I have started to implement it as a test : > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/11980 (relation France) > http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/934933 (relation definition) I like the way in which you have created a circular reference by making 934933 a "parent" and "child" of 11980 at the same time. It is perfectly valid (twinned cities where each is the other's member would be a similar situation) but many tool/editor writers handle this poorly. Your relation will be a nice encouragement for them to fix their code. Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Le 24/05/2010 09:54, Vincent Pottier a écrit : > I suggested somewhere that we could enter the defintion of default > values, maxsped and other stuff in the relation boundary where they > would apply, like the timezone. > > Usualy those values should be entered in the country relation > boundary. But for some values it could be a lower level : definition > of holidays... > > We can, if necessary, put a "def" prefix or create a special relation > type "definition" for including those definitions (easier to manage). > E.g (for France). > ... I have started to implement it as a test : http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/11980 (relation France) http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/relation/934933 (relation definition) the data are available at : http://www.openstreetmap.org/api/0.6/relation/934933 -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 6:33 PM, Richard Fairhurst wrote: > > Richard Welty wrote: >> which is a perfectly good theory, and very fussy in practice. i >> am unfamiliar with any jurisdiction which enforces speed >> limits to fractions of km/h or mph. > > There are signs on the UK canals which inform the boater that the speed > limit is 6.43kph. I kid you not. Meanwhile, 30mph roads can't be used for 50kph driving tests http://www.channel4.com/news/articles/uk/new+bike+test+may+create+quotpermanent+learnersquot/3656587 ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] Navigation Debug Map Style Available
Le 24/05/2010 06:52, Steve Bennett a écrit : > On Sun, May 23, 2010 at 1:35 AM, Richard Welty wrote: > >> yes. there's little hope for useful defaults, the defaults vary too much >> from place to place. >> > > From country to country perhaps, and maybe state to state - but not > within states. In Victoria (Australia), guessing maxspeed=50 for > highway=residential will be right 95% of the time. It's certainly less > effort to build and implement a table of defaults than to tag every > single way, but the question is: whose effort? > > Still, I'm going to try and make sure I tag all roads of 60kph or > higher at least. Though it's surprisingly hard to remember them when I > just look at the map. > > To Australian mappers: is there a free government source of speed limits? > > Steve > I suggested somewhere that we could enter the defintion of default values, maxsped and other stuff in the relation boundary where they would apply, like the timezone. Usualy those values should be entered in the country relation boundary. But for some values it could be a lower level : definition of holidays... We can, if necessary, put a "def" prefix or create a special relation type "definition" for including those definitions (easier to manage). E.g (for France). def:highway:motorway:maxspeed=130 def:highway:motorway:maxspeed:rain=110 def:highway:motorway:access:bicycle=no def:highway:motorway:access:foot=no def:highway:motorway:oneway=yes def:urban=50 def:rural=90 def:highway:residential:maxspeed=urban ... By this way, the values are : - easy to update - inside the osm data in .osm format - available "just in time" for the engines, routing systems... and easy to get by the API for map builders (like Garmin...). An engine that would have "hardcoded values" woud be considered as obsolete. - easy to use : the default value is for an area inside boundaries and the admin_level of the boundaries says the priority of the value to apply (if redefined for a smaller area) -- FrViPofm ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
Re: [OSM-talk] osmosis question
Hi, Gary68 wrote: > WHAT's wrong? Someone using 0.30 when 0.35 is current, that's wrong ;-) Bye Frederik -- Frederik Ramm ## eMail frede...@remote.org ## N49°00'09" E008°23'33" ___ talk mailing list talk@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk
