Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:46 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: While I agree that its useful to represent curves and bends properly in the traffic flow, this seems a bit excessive. Youre going from having 9 roundabouts with 36 nodes, to having 9 roundabouts using 162 nodes, for no reason other than so it renders a little bit nicer? It's not just rendering - it also affects how it appears on a GPS. Presumably more accurate circles mean more accurate distance calculations, too. These aren't terribly important considerations, but worth bearing in mind the next time we're having a but all information is important! we must be as accurate as possible in all circumstances! debate. One question I do have though, is why put the roundabouts in, and not split up the entry/exit ways? Individual lanes mapped as separate ways considered harmful. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 02/05/10 22:37, Steve Bennett wrote: It's not just rendering - it also affects how it appears on a GPS. Presumably more accurate circles mean more accurate distance calculations, too. These aren't terribly important considerations, but worth bearing in mind the next time we're having a but all information is important! we must be as accurate as possible in all circumstances! debate. Not really. The diameter of the roundabout is going to have a much greater bearing on total distance than the number of nodes. Diameter is something very difficult to get even approximately right when using a GPS as the data source. And equally important for the distance calculation is the degree of cutting the corner by individual drivers when negotiating said roundabouts. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On Sun, 2010-05-02 at 22:37 +1000, Steve Bennett wrote: On Fri, Apr 30, 2010 at 2:46 PM, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: While I agree that its useful to represent curves and bends properly in the traffic flow, this seems a bit excessive. Youre going from having 9 roundabouts with 36 nodes, to having 9 roundabouts using 162 nodes, for no reason other than so it renders a little bit nicer? It's not just rendering - it also affects how it appears on a GPS. Presumably more accurate circles mean more accurate distance calculations, too. The distance difference between a diamond and a circle is about the same as using the inside/outside lane, ie. unless you were looking at the distance over a road with a high number of round-abouts in a very short distance, I dont think youd really notice a couple of meters here or there. One question I do have though, is why put the roundabouts in, and not split up the entry/exit ways? Individual lanes mapped as separate ways considered harmful. Aussie tagging guidelines say (and Ive checked, no wikifiddling of this part for over 12 months): # Roundabouts should be drawn out in full, make the way go clockwise, # and the correct direction of movement is then shown on the map. Mark # it junction=roundabout # # Please read the following page as well. Tag:junction=roundabout # # Note: each entry and exit way should join the roundabout at a separate # node. Where is there discussion about the 'harmful' effect of tagging each entry/exit way? Ive had a quick look but only came across that comment. David ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 2 May 2010 23:44, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Where is there discussion about the 'harmful' effect of tagging each entry/exit way? Ive had a quick look but only came across that comment. What that means is entrance or exits from different parts of the intersection shouldn't share nodes, it doesn't mean the entrance and exits should be always independent of each other. I made a crappy drawing some time ago to better illustrate the point. attachment: roundabouts-rw.png___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 2 May 2010 23:44, David Murn da...@incanberra.com.au wrote: Where is there discussion about the 'harmful' effect of tagging each entry/exit way? Ive had a quick look but only came across that comment. What that means is entrance or exits from different parts of the intersection shouldn't share nodes, it doesn't mean the entrance and exits should be always independent of each other. I made a crappy drawing some time ago to better illustrate the point. Like the bottom diagram here: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:junction%3Droundabout Cheers Ross -- Ross Scanlon i...@4x4falcon.com ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Nearmap Coverage
I was curious how much actual coverage Nearmap currently has, and since we have boundaries for Nearmap coverage I thought I'd make use of them. I rounded the area to 2dp, but here is the result... Sydney = 9054.79km^2 Carnarvon = 2352.25km^2 Perth = 32454.66km^2 Rottness = 34.49km^2 Adelaide = 10277.89km^2 Cenberra = 1176.01km^2 St George = 9786.45km^2 Melbourne = 48838.13km^2 Total = 113974.67km^2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On Sun, 2 May 2010, David Murn wrote: Aussie tagging guidelines say (and Ive checked, no wikifiddling of this part for over 12 months): even this had to be restored back then somebody decided that we shouldn't have any Australian notes on roundabouts and removed the paragraph, put in a link to the main roundabouts page instead and marked it up with stop balkanisation of the wiki There are some places where splitter islands have been drawn in. If they are drawn from gps in a big city the island size is less than the accuracy of the trace - so it is supposition. Drawn from decent aerial photography, like we have now they could be accurate. I don't see them as worthwhile on the map, that they add unnecessary detail which doesn't add to the usefulness of the map. For those who are reproducing Planet Earth in her entirety they would need to be mapped. I can find those mappers plenty of other mapping work to keep them occupied. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap Coverage
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 3:03 AM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: I was curious how much actual coverage Nearmap currently has, and since we have boundaries for Nearmap coverage I thought I'd make use of them. I rounded the area to 2dp, but here is the result... Sydney = 9054.79km^2 Carnarvon = 2352.25km^2 Perth = 32454.66km^2 Rottness = 34.49km^2 Adelaide = 10277.89km^2 Cenberra = 1176.01km^2 St George = 9786.45km^2 Melbourne = 48838.13km^2 Total = 113974.67km^2 Which is 1.5% of australias total surface area (7 692 024km^2) with victoria leading the way with 20% of the state having aerial coverage (237,629km^2). I think it's somewhat less as the melbourne coverage extends into NSW, but even so it's very impressive. If they fly ballarat then all the major regional centres of victoria would be covered which would be great. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 03/05/10 07:03, Liz wrote: There are some places where splitter islands have been drawn in. If they are drawn from gps in a big city the island size is less than the accuracy of the trace - so it is supposition. Drawn from decent aerial photography, like we have now they could be accurate. I don't see them as worthwhile on the map, that they add unnecessary detail which doesn't add to the usefulness of the map. Unless you live on one of those islands (as I do) and you want OSM maps to be accurate about which driveways you can make a right-hand turn into. And that makes quite a huge difference to the suggested route to my place from a couple of kilometres away. Until Nearmap, I used the position-averaging-over-time function on my Garmin to get the islands accurate. John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 7:03 AM, Liz ed...@billiau.net wrote: even this had to be restored back then somebody decided that we shouldn't have any Australian notes on roundabouts and removed the paragraph, put in a link to the main roundabouts page instead and marked it up with stop balkanisation of the wiki I have updated the wiki page for clarity: All roundabouts, big or small, should be drawn out in full. I hope this is uncontoversial. Steve ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Wivenhoe Dam missing - edit/render problem
Hi, Wivenhoe Dam in Queensland is not rendering at the moment; and I fear it might be my fault (the edit history is me anyway - hangs head in shame). I looked at the outline and noticed it wasn't a contiguous area, so fixed that, but it's still not rendering on the map. Can anyone fix it and also educate me on how I managed to mess it up? http://osm.org/go/ueEu4mc-- Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wivenhoe Dam missing - edit/render problem
On 03/05/10 09:33, Chris Barham wrote: Hi, Wivenhoe Dam in Queensland is not rendering at the moment; and I fear it might be my fault (the edit history is me anyway - hangs head in shame). I looked at the outline and noticed it wasn't a contiguous area, so fixed that, but it's still not rendering on the map. Can anyone fix it and also educate me on how I managed to mess it up? http://osm.org/go/ueEu4mc-- The area as it stands is comprised of two separate ways: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23132054 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/52333734 both of which are tagged as landuse=reservoir. My thought is that you need to move the landuse=reservoir component from way 52333734 to way 23132054 (making the latter an area instead of an open-ended line), and either: a) keep the waterway=dam way 52333734 superimposed over part of way 23132054, or b) move it slightly uphill from the water (which is what I'd do). John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Wivenhoe Dam missing - edit/render problem
Thanks, I have separated the ways and it's fine now. Didn't spot that when I was trying to work out the problem. On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 11:25, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: The area as it stands is comprised of two separate ways: http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/23132054 and http://www.openstreetmap.org/browse/way/52333734 both of which are tagged as landuse=reservoir. Cheers, Chris ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap Coverage
On 3 May 2010 08:23, Peter Ross pe...@emailross.com wrote: Which is 1.5% of australias total surface area (7 692 024km^2) with victoria leading the way with 20% of the state having aerial coverage (237,629km^2). I think it's somewhat less as the melbourne coverage extends into NSW, but even so it's very impressive. If they fly ballarat then all the major regional centres of victoria would be covered which would be great. I think they already flew Ballerat, and yes the Melbourne imagery extends into NSW, we could split the polygon and get a more accurate answer we could also spend more time aligning the boundaries to be more exact as well, but I did this mostly out of curiosity. Then they just need a few other capitals (Darwin, Hobart), missing sections of current cities (Ipswich, west of Brisbane) and regional centres (Dubbo, Tamworth, Toowoomba etc) and that would cover the majority of the population... ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 3 May 2010 08:25, John Henderson snow...@gmx.com wrote: Unless you live on one of those islands (as I do) and you want OSM maps You live on the island in the middle of a roundabout? ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
[talk-au] Yahoo coverage
I wanted to know how the Yahoo coverage compared to Nearmap, turns out it's about 1/3rd the area. Brisbane: 7129.66km^2 Sunshine Coast: 1216.55km^2 Carins Area: 3114.15km^2 Townsville Area: 1615.53km^2 Rockhampton Area: 768.84km^2 Darwin Area: 735.13km^2 Adelaide Area: 2839.33km^2 Canberra Area: 2169.02km^2 Melbourne Area: 6610.6km^2 Hobart Area: 917.15km^2 Rottnest Island Area: 117.27km^2 Perth Area: 3815.19km^2 Sydney, Central Coast and Newcastle Areas: 9418.59km^2 Total: 40467.01km^2 ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Nearmap Coverage
On Mon, May 3, 2010 at 1:49 PM, John Smith deltafoxtrot...@gmail.com wrote: On 3 May 2010 08:23, Peter Ross pe...@emailross.com wrote: Which is 1.5% of australias total surface area (7 692 024km^2) with victoria leading the way with 20% of the state having aerial coverage (237,629km^2). I think it's somewhat less as the melbourne coverage extends into NSW, but even so it's very impressive. If they fly ballarat then all the major regional centres of victoria would be covered which would be great. I think they already flew Ballerat, and yes the Melbourne imagery extends into NSW, we could split the polygon and get a more accurate answer we could also spend more time aligning the boundaries to be more exact as well, but I did this mostly out of curiosity. I wouldn't bother making it more accurate. I did the percentages because the raw numbers really didn't mean anything to me. Only took 5 minutes to google sizes and use calculator to give percentages. ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
Re: [talk-au] Mini Roundabouts.
On 03/05/10 14:09, John Smith wrote: On 3 May 2010 08:25, John Hendersonsnow...@gmx.com wrote: Unless you live on one of those islands (as I do) and you want OSM maps You live on the island in the middle of a roundabout? No. I live in a shoebox in the middle of the road :) John H ___ Talk-au mailing list Talk-au@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-au
