Re: [OSM-talk-be] Firefighters and OSM + fire_hydrant

[Glenn Plas]

On 2013-07-25 21:29, Kurt Roeckx wrote:

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:16:14AM +0200, Teddy wrote:

2013/7/24 Kurt Roeckx 


fire_hydrant



Hello Kurt,
No, there are 3 numbers for the offset, in the tag "fire_hydrant:position"

On the signs there are only ever 2 of those numbers.  Either you
one to the left or one to the right.  Never both.

Anyway, I see no point in mapping that a sign says the hydrant
that much away from the sign.  Those numbers are their for people
who are looking for the hydrant to find by saying about where they
should look.  In my expieriences they're also not very accurate.



It would make sense with hidden ones and a smartphone application to 
find them using OSM data.  If you know what to look for _and_ where, you 
are all set.


But in the end it doesn't matter, I really didn't forsee that by copying 
a key from the severly micromapped Rossleben a discussion of this kind 
would erupt.  In the end, it's probably bad tagging, values like that 
deserve their own keys.  But the same thing can be said about a tree, 
why would you map a tree? only reason I know is to make it a landmark.  
I do this sometimes as this can help recognizing distinct areas.


Sometimes the application of those things is beyond our imagination.
Things like this emerge nowadays : 
http://eprints.nuim.ie/2482/1/Ciepluch-et-al-ACM-GIS-CamerReady1.pdf
Using OSM data to determine location without GPS, just by using vector 
data.   I can imagine an application (google glasses ?) that could do 
wicked things using this.


But in the end, it's only a sign.  But it would be not against OSM 
spirit, e.g. To map what is there in the real world.   Mapping the 
hydrant is much more important.   Eventually the lat/lon on that, if 
precise enough is exactly the location, so in essence, we would be using 
a different positioning system in an existing one.


So , eventually it's not all that important to do, and I would not have 
a problem to drop those from the ones I made.


Glenn

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Firefighters and OSM + fire_hydrant

[Kurt Roeckx]

On Thu, Jul 25, 2013 at 10:16:14AM +0200, Teddy wrote:
> 2013/7/24 Kurt Roeckx 
> 
> > fire_hydrant
> 
> 
> 
> Hello Kurt,
> No, there are 3 numbers for the offset, in the tag "fire_hydrant:position"

On the signs there are only ever 2 of those numbers.  Either you
one to the left or one to the right.  Never both.

Anyway, I see no point in mapping that a sign says the hydrant
that much away from the sign.  Those numbers are their for people
who are looking for the hydrant to find by saying about where they
should look.  In my expieriences they're also not very accurate.

I think that we want to map where the hydrant it, not map the sign
and say the hydrant has an offset relative to that sign.  I assume
you also don't map road signs pointing to a city and then saying
that that sign says that the city is that many km away.  I really
see no value whatsover in mapping what the sign says about the
position.

> ** fire_hydrant:position= lane/parking_lot/sidewalk/green; left
> offset;front offset;right offset

None of the the various wiki's mention anything about the offsets.
I also see no point in using 3 numbers for it while the sign will
only ever have 2 on them.

> Rem : on fire signaling panels (Belgium, France, Deutchland) :
> B is for Borne -> above ground
> H is for Hydrant -> below ground

Yes, I already said that in my mail.


Kurt


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[OSM-talk-be] Fwd: [OSM-talk] Mapping cooperation between countries in OSM

[Glenn Plas]

This is pretty interesting visualisation   /  Vrij interessante 
voorstelling van grensoverschrijdend mappen



 Original Message 
Subject:[OSM-talk] Mapping cooperation between countries in OSM
Date:   Thu, 25 Jul 2013 11:47:45 +0200
From:   Frédéric Bonifas 
To: talk_at_openstreetmap Openstreetmap 



Hi,

For a long time I have wanted to know where people from a given
country also contribute in OpenStreetMap.
I have analyzed all the nodes in the OSM Planet from the 15th June
2013 and I came up with this map :
http://fredericbonifas.github.io/OSM-cooperation/

One identified bias is that each contributor is assigned the country
where he has contributed the most as his main country. But this may be
false.

Best

--
Frédéric Bonifas
+33672652807 skype:fredericbonifas

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Firefighters and OSM + fire_hydrant

[Glenn Plas]

On 2013-07-25 10:16, Teddy wrote:


2013/7/24 Kurt Roeckx mailto:k...@roeckx.be>>

fire_hydrant



Hello Kurt,
No, there are 3 numbers for the offset, in the tag "fire_hydrant:position"
** fire_hydrant:position= lane/parking_lot/sidewalk/green; left 
offset;front offset;right offset


But in the official description (see below), there is no numbers at 
the end of the tag !


The type of material is in the tag "fire_hydrant:type"

** fire_hydrant:type=underground/pillar/wall/pond

The diameter is in the tag : "fire_hydrant:diameter"

The diameter is in the tag : "fire_hydrant:standard", DIN is the 
standard for Europe.


**fire_hydrant:standard = DIN

*Be carrefull, officialy, you must also use the tag :*

***amenity=fire_hydrant*

*See->**http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant#VOTE_END_UPDATE*

Rem : on fire signaling panels (Belgium, France, Deutchland) :
B is for Borne -> above ground
H is for Hydrant -> below ground


Eddy,

That is not correct.  There is a little notice that says:

The proposal moved to emergency. ? Tag:emergency=fire_hydrant

Below that someone correctly states:

"After a long discussion about the "emergency-tags" we decided to let 
the fire hydrants in the amenity namespace (for now).

This discussion was where? Please provide the link."

So you should not use amenity.  There is also no law that says you 
cannot deviate from the norm.  If you check the occcurences of the way I 
tagged the position of  hydrant you will see more of those,  I also 
frequently see discussions on the general mailing list that state the 
wiki is not always correct and it is lagging behind in many cases.


If you check the occurences of this tag:

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=emergency&value=fire_hydrant 
vs http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenity&value=fire_hydrant


I think it is safe to say you should keep using emergency.
Eddy,

That is not correct.  There is a little notice that says:

The proposal moved to emergency. ? Tag:emergency=fire_hydrant

Below that someone correctly states:

"After a long discussion about the "emergency-tags" we decided to let 
the fire hydrants in the amenity namespace (for now).

This discussion was where? Please provide the link."

So you should not use amenity.  There is also no law that says you 
cannot deviate from the norm.  If you check the occcurences of the way I 
tagged the position of  hydrant you will see more of those,  I also 
frequently see discussions on the general mailing list that state the 
wiki is not always correct and it is lagging behind in many cases.


If you check the occurences of this tag:

http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=emergency&value=fire_hydrant 
vs http://taginfo.openstreetmap.org/tags/?key=amenity&value=fire_hydrant


I think it is safe to say you should keep using emergency.

Glenn

Glenn



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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Firefighters and OSM + fire_hydrant

[Teddy]

2013/7/24 Kurt Roeckx 

> fire_hydrant



Hello Kurt,
No, there are 3 numbers for the offset, in the tag "fire_hydrant:position"

** fire_hydrant:position= lane/parking_lot/sidewalk/green; left
offset;front offset;right offset

But in the official description (see below), there is no numbers at the end
of the tag !

The type of material is in the tag "fire_hydrant:type"

** fire_hydrant:type=underground/pillar/wall/pond

The diameter is in the tag : "fire_hydrant:diameter"

The diameter is in the tag : "fire_hydrant:standard", DIN is the standard
for Europe.

**fire_hydrant:standard = DIN
*Be carrefull, officialy, you must also use the tag :*

***amenity=fire_hydrant*

*See->**
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Fire_Hydrant#VOTE_END_UPDATE
*

Rem : on fire signaling panels (Belgium, France, Deutchland) :
B is for Borne -> above ground
H is for Hydrant -> below ground

More informations :
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/FR:Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant
http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/DE:Tag:emergency%3Dfire_hydrant (fire
signaling panels)
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