[OSM-talk-be] suburb

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Op http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WikiProject_Belgium/Conventions/Places
staat dat suburb eigenlijk een voorstad is en dat deze tag in België dus
niet gebruikt mag worden.

In de presets van JOSM (aantekeningen –adres) staat: Deelgemeente =
addr:suburb. Wie dus met de presets werkt zal waarschijnlijk heel veel
fouten gemaakt hebben. Of niet?

PS. Sorry dat ik het niet in het Engels vertaal, want dan verstaat niemand
het.

 

 

Guy Vanvuchelen

 

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Authorization request for use of SPW data (PICC, orthophotos and others) and OSM representative

[Thomas Bertels]

Le 31/05/2017 à 08:04, joost schouppe a écrit :

HI Thomas,

Thank you for taking this effort. For some it is extremely clear that 
we can use SPW datasets, for others it is extremely clear we can not. 
If the SPW are willing to officialise this, than we can step beyond 
the doubt and the divisive discussions.


Since a few months, we have a membership and a board at OpenStreetMap 
Belgium. Ben Abelshausen, Jonathan Belien and myself are on that 
board. Ben is also our representative with Open Knowledge. So any of 
us would be good if they want an "official representative". I would 
definitely be willing to help out. I live near Brussels. Jonathan is a 
real Bruxeleer, so it would be nice if we can meet there.
We can ask Dries at OpenKnowledge for a little help if SPW prefers 
talking to them directly.


 That's great! Vincent Bombaerts actually suggested that, though I 
wasn't sure you'd be willing to.


I hope some people from the Walloon side can join too.

That said, I wonder if they really understand the implications of our 
ODbL license. They can make a kind of contract with us, but that 
implies that all the data we generate based on that contract are 
exempt from the contract. If vector data would be included in such 
arrangement, someone could theoretically import all that data into 
OSM, after which anyone can use it for anything under the ODbL license.


That's exactly the kind of thing you'll be able to talk about.
However, I don't understand what vector data you talk about. From what I 
know, the SPW data is in raster format, and it seems we can vectorize it 
(trace).
And like André said, we don't copy the data, we consult it (= trace it 
or what I meant by using it).


Thomas


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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Authorization request for use of SPW data (PICC, orthophotos and others) and OSM representative

[Thomas Bertels]

Le 31/05/2017 à 00:39, André Pirard a écrit :
What is the need to contact all those people after a SPW lawyer made 
the situation clear?

To get an explicit authorization, like I said.
Following that, I've been on the phone with him and he told me that, 
like many already know, we can use the data from the SPW for OSM.

Not at all.
For anyone having understood the terms of the SPW that are clarified 
in my "YES we can trace the PICC" message, we are not allowed to use 
(copy) the (vector) data of the PICC but we are allowed to trace the 
images of the WMS et al. services.

By "using" I meant tracing while using the data as as background.
I also talked about the buildings numbers from PICC, which make it much 
easier to add building address details in OSM.
I had been requesting authorization for PICC and orthophotos, but he 
told me that there are other potentially useful data like MNT 
 
(relief) and others.


However, since I'd been asking for an explicit authorization (needed 
for integration into the iD editor), he told me that the 
authorization contract templates they've got require an organization. 
Probably because the data is free of the associations without 
lucrative purpose.
First, I strongly discourage using ID and Potlatch. This is what has 
led to highly imprecise Wallonia tagging as well as introducing 
tagging errors over the years.  All that work has to be redone with 
correction.
Please use the PICC with JOSM to achieve a 25 cm precision excellent 
tagging.
I don't understand, why does JOSM allow a higher precision? Because we 
can manually correct the background offset?
But if it's that, I wonder how you correct the background offset down to 
25 cm. Do you have a professional GPS receiver? Standard GPS devices are 
only down to 3 meters.
Anyway, users will still use iD, so providing them with a better imagery 
is a good thing in my opinion.


Thomas

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[joost schouppe]

>
> Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
> mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
> Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
> personnes d'en faire une?
>

Pour moi, le plus important est que chaque personne peut s'exprimer
librement. Il s'agit plutot de "guidelines" que des regles strictes, non?

J'aime bien la filosofie general dans la comunauté OSM de resoudre les
problemes plutot que se plaindre des problemes. Donc ici la traduction:

"I believe school is the best solution in Belgium. In one school, there can
be both professional [secondary] education, as well as "general secondary
education". According to Wikipedia, "college" means a lecture at a
university. If you google "beroepsonderwijs in college" [secondary
professional education in college], you'll always get to a Dutch school, so
there it could in fact be "college".

(it's an attempt, because terms like ASO are hard to translate)
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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[André Pirard]

On 2017-05-31 15:10, Guy Vanvuchelen wrote:
> Volgens mij is 'school'voor België de beste oplossing. In één school kunnen 
> immers meerdere afdelingen zijn: beroepsonderwijs, maar ook ASO. Als je 
> Wikipedia zou volgen is 'college' een klassikale les krijgen aan een 
> universiteit. Als je googled naar 'beroepsonderwijs in college' kom je 
> gegarandeerd op een Nederlandse school terecht, dus daar kan het wel 
> 'college' zijn. 
> GuyVV
> Je pense est school'voor Belgique, la meilleure solution. Dans une
> école plusieurs ministères peuvent en effet être: professionnel, mais
> ASO. Si vous suivez « collège » Wikipedia recevoir une formation en
> classe dans une université. Si vous googlé pour « l'enseignement
> professionnel au collège » vous garanti une école néerlandaise à juste
> titre comme il peut être « collège » est.
> > GuyVV
???
Jo nous a expliqué qu'on écrit en flamand quand le problème est flamand
mais c'est souvent loin d'être le cas.
Pourquoi ne pas fournir une traduction plutôt que de demander à 100
personnes d'en faire une?

De quel tag s'agit-il exactement?
"college" signifie enseignement supérieur en anglais.
Comme il y a de gros problèmes de correspondance de termes, même avec la
France, pourquoi ne pas utiliser "collège:BE" ou, encore mieux s'il le
faut, "collège:BE:fr"?
En plus de "school", évidement.

Which tag is it exactly?
"College" means higher education in English.
As there are big problems of aanpassing of terms, even with France, why
not use "collège:BE" or, better still if needed, "collège:BE:fr"?
In addition to "school", obviously.

Welke tag is het precies?
"College" betekent het hoger onderwijs in het Engels.
Omdat er grote correspondance problemen zijn, zelfs met Frankrijk,
waarom niet "collège:BE" gebruiken of, nog beter, indien nodig,
"collège:BE:fr"?
Naast "school", natuurlijk.

Cheers

André.


> -Oorspronkelijk bericht-
> Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
> Verzonden: woensdag 31 mei 2017 5:16
> Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
> Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college
>
> A Dutch mapper changed the "Hoe map ik een" school the other day.[1]
> The original discussion leading to the change can be found here: [2]
> in Dutch and with a lot of acronyms specific for The Netherlands.
>
> Do we want to map "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." (L'enseignement
> secondaire professionnel ?) as college ? I would never have thought to
> map them as college, but I could be wrong.
>
>
> m.
>
>
> Een Nederlandse mapper heeft de sectie voor hoe map ik een school
> aangepast [1] naar aanleiding van een discussie op het Nederlandse
> forum [2]. Nu zouden we middelbaar beroepsonderwijs als college moeten
> mappen. Ik zou er nooit aan gedacht hebben dit zo te taggen,
> waarschijnlijk had ik gewoon school gebruikt. Ik heb het misschien bij
> het verkeerde eind. Wat denken jullie ervan ?
>
>
>
>
>
> [1] 
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:NL:How_to_map_a:S&diff=next&oldid=1390987
> [2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57278
>

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Re: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

[Guy Vanvuchelen]

Volgens mij is 'school'voor België de beste oplossing. In één school kunnen 
immers meerdere afdelingen zijn: beroepsonderwijs, maar ook ASO. Als je 
Wikipedia zou volgen is 'college' een klassikale les krijgen aan een 
universiteit. Als je googled naar 'beroepsonderwijs in college' kom je 
gegarandeerd op een Nederlandse school terecht, dus daar kan het wel 'college' 
zijn. 
GuyVV

-Oorspronkelijk bericht-
Van: Marc Gemis [mailto:marc.ge...@gmail.com] 
Verzonden: woensdag 31 mei 2017 5:16
Aan: OpenStreetMap Belgium
Onderwerp: [OSM-talk-be] Tagging of schools/college

A Dutch mapper changed the "Hoe map ik een" school the other day.[1]
The original discussion leading to the change can be found here: [2]
in Dutch and with a lot of acronyms specific for The Netherlands.

Do we want to map "Middelbaar beroepsonderwijs." (L'enseignement
secondaire professionnel ?) as college ? I would never have thought to
map them as college, but I could be wrong.


m.


Een Nederlandse mapper heeft de sectie voor hoe map ik een school
aangepast [1] naar aanleiding van een discussie op het Nederlandse
forum [2]. Nu zouden we middelbaar beroepsonderwijs als college moeten
mappen. Ik zou er nooit aan gedacht hebben dit zo te taggen,
waarschijnlijk had ik gewoon school gebruikt. Ik heb het misschien bij
het verkeerde eind. Wat denken jullie ervan ?





[1] 
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Template:NL:How_to_map_a:S&diff=next&oldid=1390987
[2] https://forum.openstreetmap.org/viewtopic.php?id=57278

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