Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Hi, On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 8:46 AM, john whelan wrote: > Not all street numbers are used even in the suburbs. For example in Ottawa > houses with 50 foot lots have their numbers incremented in fours not two. I > don't think it matters too much the interpolation will give you an > approximate location which can be corrcted by some one on the ground if > there seems to be a major problem. > > Which is an excellent reason why the more local people are to the canvec .osm tile/files the better it is for everyone. ... and hey, once the map is more populated with more complete data, we will see more Local OSM users pop-up and want to help :)... at least I have seen that pattern emerge over the past time now that i've been involved with OSM-land. Cheers, Sam ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Not all street numbers are used even in the suburbs. For example in Ottawa houses with 50 foot lots have their numbers incremented in fours not two. I don't think it matters too much the interpolation will give you an approximate location which can be corrcted by some one on the ground if there seems to be a major problem. Cheerio John On 12 May 2010 11:12, wrote: > > > 2 12 > > Interpolation Way:O---O > > Street:O=O > > > > This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each > > other. > > Hi Tyle, > The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an > issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it). > > Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the > number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie. > 1,5,7,13,19,21. > > It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and > evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency > services find the correct residence in an emergency. > > There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example plans > (which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a > lat/long to check out. > > Cheers, > Simon. > > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
> Hi Tyle, > The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an > issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it). > Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the > number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie. > 1,5,7,13,19,21. > It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and > evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency > services find the correct residence in an emergency. Hi Simon, Thanks for bringing that up to me! I hadn't considered that as I haven't run into it yet in the urban areas I'm dealing with. > There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example plans > (which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a > lat/long to check out. Sure, please send that information along to me and I can keep it in mind when I get into the rural areas of Manitoba. I haven't looked at how the StatCan data works in rural areas; they may only have address information on the specific part of the road where its necessary, but I'm not sure. The complication I can see myself running into with irregular numbering is matching where the numbered portion starts and ends in the OSM data compared to the NRN data. In the city the numbering starts at an intersection and goes to the next intersection so its easy to fit the NRN interpolation ways into the OSM data, even if they're not the same size/shape as the OSM data If there is a segment of addressed data in the middle of a rural road it might be fun to try and figure out where that maps to in the OSM data. I'll have to look at the NRN data more closely to see if I can find an instance of this in Manitoba. Thanks! Tyler ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
> 2 12 > Interpolation Way:O---O > Street:O=O > > This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each > other. Hi Tyle, The work you are doing is excellent, I just wanted to alert you to an issue with rural numbering (in case you are unaware of it). Our 'street' (subdivision) does not have linear numbering; that is the number sequence increases from the start of the road, but has gaps ie. 1,5,7,13,19,21. It seems to be in 100m's from start of road, with odds on the right and evens on the left. I believe that it is done this way to help emergency services find the correct residence in an emergency. There is a document from the local MD which has explanation/example plans (which I have a copy of if you want it, 745kByte) or I can send you a lat/long to check out. Cheers, Simon. ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 9:42 AM, Victor Bielawski wrote: > On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel > wrote: >> What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in >> Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? > > Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that > generates address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in > the distance from streets depending on the street's orientation, and > looks plain ugly in any projection apart from latlon. > > As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for > highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and > above, if such a distinction is possible. This is based on > observations from Toronto and area; I don't know about other cities. Thank you for those observations, Victor. There was a project a while back to create these offset interpolation ways automatically. I don't recall the outcome, or the link, sadly. There were demos including some interesting artifacts when faced with short ways, acute angle and twisty ways. Anybody recall that link? ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Gentlemen, Victor wrote ... "Please please *please* use metres" : Difficult to say no !-) "I'd prefer 14-17 metres for highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and above, if such a distinction is possible" : It makes sense. I'll try to go as you suggest with 15 and 20 meters Tyler wrote ... "insetting the start and end of each interpolation way the same amount from the start and end of the street is probably a good idea" : It is exactly how it works - in respect with Canvec schema.! Daniel -Original Message- From: Victor Bielawski [mailto:bielaws...@gmail.com] Sent: 12 mai 2010 09:43 To: Bégin, Daniel Cc: Tyler Gunn; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel wrote: > What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in > Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that generates address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in the distance from streets depending on the street's orientation, and looks plain ugly in any projection apart from latlon. As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and above, if such a distinction is possible. This is based on observations from Toronto and area; I don't know about other cities. -- Victor Bielawski ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 1:32 PM, Bégin, Daniel wrote: > What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in > Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? Please please *please* use metres. Merkaartor has some code that generates address interpolation ways using degrees, and it results in the distance from streets depending on the street's orientation, and looks plain ugly in any projection apart from latlon. As for the distance itself, I'd prefer 14-17 metres for highway=tertiary and below, and 20-23 metres for highway=secondary and above, if such a distinction is possible. This is based on observations from Toronto and area; I don't know about other cities. -- Victor Bielawski ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
On Wed, 12 May 2010 07:32:34 -0400, Bégin, Daniel wrote: > Hi Tyler, > What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in > Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? I wasn't able to use any automatic adjustments since the StatsCan roads are quite off in location and geometry from the actual roads. I think that 10m is probably a reasonable amount; I think I averaged about 8m but I found it to be a bit too close. I notice Sam beat me to it, but insetting the start and end of each interpolation way the same amount from the start and end of the street is probably a good idea. For example: 2 12 Interpolation Way:O---O Street:O=O This way at intersections all the numbers don't jumble on top of each other. > For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use... > interpolation line > - addr:interpolation The addr:interpolation can be set to even or odd based on the starting house number; that's the approach I took. > First/Last node of interpolation line > - addr:housenumber > - addr:street > - addr:city > > This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city > that is optional. I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it > with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously > GeoBase) content. That sounds reasonable. I didn't include the addr:city tag in mine, but I think its a good idea so I'll add in in as well. Tyler -- Tyler Gunn ty...@egunn.com ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Hi Sam, actually, a sample would help to understand but let say that the left and right extrapolation ways will be there, at an appropriate distance from the road, with appropriate tags to the way and to the first/last node... Daniel From: samvekem...@gmail.com [mailto:samvekem...@gmail.com] On Behalf Of Sam Vekemans Sent: 12 mai 2010 08:44 To: Bégin, Daniel Cc: Tyler Gunn; Talk-CA OpenStreetMap; Robert Shand Subject: Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm Hi, On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Bégin, Daniel wrote: Hi Tyler, What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use... interpolation line - addr:interpolation First/Last node of interpolation line - addr:housenumber - addr:street - addr:city So (from how i understand it) It would actually be a simple process of manually copying over each way segment and pasting it with an offset, looking at it and adjusting the size of it... so it lines up to where we see the 1st house (from imagery) to where we see the last house/building. or ... As oh... the direction of the way is from lower # to higher house number? so it would be 3 separate passes through the data to get the 1 - road name 2 - left side (2 house numbers) - adjust .0001 degress 3 - right side (2 house numbers) - adjust -.0001 degrees If thats automatic.. that'll be awesome! ... I also cc'd feralbob for comments :) Cheers, Sam This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city that is optional. I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously GeoBase) content. Proposal? Daniel -Original Message- From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49 To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data.. Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address data to. In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways FAR too close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF Comments? Thanks, Tyler ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
Re: [Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Hi, On Wed, May 12, 2010 at 4:32 AM, Bégin, Daniel < daniel.be...@rncan-nrcan.gc.ca> wrote: > Hi Tyler, > > What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in > Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? > > For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use... > > interpolation line > - addr:interpolation > > First/Last node of interpolation line > - addr:housenumber > - addr:street > - addr:city > > So (from how i understand it) It would actually be a simple process of manually copying over each way segment and pasting it with an offset, looking at it and adjusting the size of it... so it lines up to where we see the 1st house (from imagery) to where we see the last house/building. or ... As oh... the direction of the way is from lower # to higher house number? so it would be 3 separate passes through the data to get the 1 - road name 2 - left side (2 house numbers) - adjust .0001 degress 3 - right side (2 house numbers) - adjust -.0001 degrees If thats automatic.. that'll be awesome! ... I also cc'd feralbob for comments :) Cheers, Sam > This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city > that is optional. I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it > with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously > GeoBase) content. > > Proposal? > > Daniel > > -Original Message- > From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto: > talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn > Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49 > To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data.. > > > Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address data > to. In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways FAR > too close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible. > > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF > > Comments? > > Thanks, > Tyler > > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > > ___ > Talk-ca mailing list > Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org > http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca > ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
[Talk-ca] Addressing in Canvec.osm
Hi Tyler, What distance did you use? I was to use 0.0001 degree (about 10 meters in Halifax) for addressing in Canvec.osm. What would you suggest? For all, concerning adderssing tags, I am going to use... interpolation line - addr:interpolation First/Last node of interpolation line - addr:housenumber - addr:street - addr:city This is what is described as required from the wiki, except for addr:city that is optional. I can remove it from the schema but I can't replace it with anything else because this is all I can get from Canvec (and obviously GeoBase) content. Proposal? Daniel -Original Message- From: talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org [mailto:talk-ca-boun...@openstreetmap.org] On Behalf Of Tyler Gunn Sent: 11 mai 2010 23:49 To: talk-ca@openstreetmap.org Subject: [Talk-ca] First usage of StatCan NRN data.. Here's a small area I have applied the converted StatCan NRN address data to. In my first attempt I definitely put the address interpolation ways FAR too close to the streets; I just fixed this so it may or may not be visible. http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=49.78783&lon=-97.17772&zoom=17&layers=B000FTF Comments? Thanks, Tyler ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca ___ Talk-ca mailing list Talk-ca@openstreetmap.org http://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-ca
