Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Hi, thanks to my colleague Miguel here at ISCTE, we have a first translation in Portuguese: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/PT_flyer So please review and improve it if you like. We also need a new paragraph on the OSGeo PT, ideally with the same length. Bom fim-de-semana, Matthias Am 23.10.2013 18:42, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: Funny, today there's a blog speaking of promotional leaflets : http://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/ I see that the idea of a portuguese flyer is in good shape but didn't know how I can help you, I can't speak german ;-) I also think the best pictures are for Lisboa in the low zoom and Porto with the high zoom. Francisco. - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 23/10/2013 14:56:47 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? Am 21.10.2013 20:45, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: I've not replied because I don't know ;-) Não tem problema ;) All the mapping party I've heard have been organized by the OSGeo Local Chapter, I don't think they have an OSM flyer (I hope someone could prove me wrong :-) but it's a very good idea to have one. They used to have a wiki and a dedicated page for mapping events (but it's down) : http://wiki.osgeopt.pt/index.php/Vamos_mapear_Portugal Hopefully some OSGeo members read this list and you'll get an answer, if not we can cross-post to the OSGeo mailing list for a larger audience : http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/portugal/ Their list is not OSM related but they are a bigger community so they will have better idea for sponsors and publishing partners. I contacted the OSGeoPT and the president Jorge agreed, that the *chapter will spend the money* and deal with the printing if we finished the localisation. I also contacted Frederik (Geofabrik chef), if he is ok with replacing their promotion at the flyer with an OSGeo 'advertising'. He is very ok with that and offered us to create a *high res map rendering* for the flyer. So now the question is, *which areas* we like to see at the flyer? There is one place at one folding segment and second one what covers 2xsegments. At the german flyer they use the city Münster with low zoom and Berlin for the bigger area. Hmm so use Lisboa and Porto? Matthias - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 21/10/2013 20:38:19 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? As nobody replyed, I like to ask more specific: Woul it be ok to you, if *I ask some locals* to create portueuse translation of the official flyer? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2010_thumb.png (I think I will use the more recent version, but sadly its just in DE http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2011_german.jpg) For *printing* a few thousands that can be spread to local mappers, will there be a organization that likes to sponsor and get's a attribution on the flyer? I would replace the german book with the english edition, ok? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Books#OpenStreetMap:_Using_and_Enhancing_the_Free_Map_of_the_World Should I ask OSMF or do you know any local sponsor or at least a Portuguese online service to order the prints? I will try to create another A5 flyer dedicated to the use of the notes function, that allows locals to easily contribute more details. IMHO this makes sense, as if they see some empty buildings, they might remember about local POIs? Matthias Am 16.09.2013 18:14, schrieb Matthias Meisser: Hi everybody, as I nearly finished tracing Bing aerials the past weeks, I like to start with on-the-ground survey which will be photo and penpaper mapping: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/38.7222/-9.1230layers=N As I'm not looking like a usual Portuguese guy and I can't make me understandable in the language, I would like to have something like a flyer, so people can understand what I'm doing. In Germany there is one [1] and it helped me already, because Germans care a lot about their privacy (and property ;)). So can anybody tell me, if the portuguese community has similar documents to show their mission to the residents? 1 http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Flyers_and_posters Greetings from Lisboa, Matthias ___ Talk-pt mailing list Talk-pt@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-pt ___ Talk-pt mailing list Talk-pt@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-pt ___ Talk-pt mailing list Talk-pt@openstreetmap.org https://lists.openstreetmap.org/listinfo/talk-pt ___ Talk-pt mailing list Talk-pt@openstreetmap.org
Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!)
The translation looks good. I've spotted a couple typos s/eligações/e ligações/ and s/azona/a zona/. The other thing I've noticed, and I don't know very well how to explain it in english, is that the verbs have been conjugated in a way that it seems the writer knows the reader personally (and are friends). What I mean is, Podes encontrar o web... is similar to Tu podes encontrar o web..., using Tu is not polite if you don't know the other person. Personally I prefer to see Pode encontrar o web I suppose that teenagers don't care about how it's written but someone the age of their parents (or older) might not like it, I'd say that the flyer should try not to give a bad first impression. Finally, where it says open-source software, does it mean open source or free software[1]? [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html#open-source On 25-10-2013 18:36, Matthias Meisser wrote: Hi, thanks to my colleague Miguel here at ISCTE, we have a first translation in Portuguese: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/PT_flyer So please review and improve it if you like. We also need a new paragraph on the OSGeo PT, ideally with the same length. Bom fim-de-semana, Matthias Am 23.10.2013 18:42, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: Funny, today there's a blog speaking of promotional leaflets : http://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/ I see that the idea of a portuguese flyer is in good shape but didn't know how I can help you, I can't speak german ;-) I also think the best pictures are for Lisboa in the low zoom and Porto with the high zoom. Francisco. - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 23/10/2013 14:56:47 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? Am 21.10.2013 20:45, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: I've not replied because I don't know ;-) Não tem problema ;) All the mapping party I've heard have been organized by the OSGeo Local Chapter, I don't think they have an OSM flyer (I hope someone could prove me wrong :-) but it's a very good idea to have one. They used to have a wiki and a dedicated page for mapping events (but it's down) : http://wiki.osgeopt.pt/index.php/Vamos_mapear_Portugal Hopefully some OSGeo members read this list and you'll get an answer, if not we can cross-post to the OSGeo mailing list for a larger audience : http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/portugal/ Their list is not OSM related but they are a bigger community so they will have better idea for sponsors and publishing partners. I contacted the OSGeoPT and the president Jorge agreed, that the *chapter will spend the money* and deal with the printing if we finished the localisation. I also contacted Frederik (Geofabrik chef), if he is ok with replacing their promotion at the flyer with an OSGeo 'advertising'. He is very ok with that and offered us to create a *high res map rendering* for the flyer. So now the question is, *which areas* we like to see at the flyer? There is one place at one folding segment and second one what covers 2xsegments. At the german flyer they use the city Münster with low zoom and Berlin for the bigger area. Hmm so use Lisboa and Porto? Matthias - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 21/10/2013 20:38:19 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? As nobody replyed, I like to ask more specific: Woul it be ok to you, if *I ask some locals* to create portueuse translation of the official flyer? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2010_thumb.png (I think I will use the more recent version, but sadly its just in DE http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2011_german.jpg) For *printing* a few thousands that can be spread to local mappers, will there be a organization that likes to sponsor and get's a attribution on the flyer? I would replace the german book with the english edition, ok? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Books#OpenStreetMap:_Using_and_Enhancing_the_Free_Map_of_the_World Should I ask OSMF or do you know any local sponsor or at least a Portuguese online service to order the prints? I will try to create another A5 flyer dedicated to the use of the notes function, that allows locals to easily contribute more details. IMHO this makes sense, as if they see some empty buildings, they might remember about local POIs? Matthias Am 16.09.2013 18:14, schrieb Matthias Meisser: Hi everybody, as I nearly finished tracing Bing aerials the past weeks, I like to start with on-the-ground survey which will be photo and penpaper mapping: http://www.openstreetmap.org/#map=16/38.7222/-9.1230layers=N As I'm not looking like a usual Portuguese guy and I can't make me understandable in the language, I would like to have something like a flyer, so people can understand what I'm doing. In Germany there is one [1] and it helped me
Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Am 25.10.2013 19:35, schrieb Mauro Santos: The translation looks good. I've spotted a couple typos s/eligações/e ligações/ and s/azona/a zona/. Obrigado! The other thing I've noticed, and I don't know very well how to explain it in english, is that the verbs have been conjugated in a way that it seems the writer knows the reader personally (and are friends). What I mean is, Podes encontrar o web... is similar to Tu podes encontrar o web..., using Tu is not polite if you don't know the other person. Personally I prefer to see Pode encontrar o web I suppose that teenagers don't care about how it's written but someone the age of their parents (or older) might not like it, I'd say that the flyer should try not to give a bad first impression. I guess this was mixed as english just knows 'you' (you boy vs. you sir), so I think Miguel just choose what sounds reasonable to him. A more serious tone would b appreciated IMHO and is used in DE edition, too. Finally, where it says open-source software, does it mean open source or free software[1]? [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html#open-source Wow, I guess this is getting political ;) I made just the translation an DE also used open source that is IMHO more a buzzword to non-geeks than free software. As the topic of the flyer is free mapping, we IMHO should avoid to get to close into details, but maybe you prefer using a different term for FLOSS? Matthias On 25-10-2013 18:36, Matthias Meisser wrote: Hi, thanks to my colleague Miguel here at ISCTE, we have a first translation in Portuguese: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/PT_flyer So please review and improve it if you like. We also need a new paragraph on the OSGeo PT, ideally with the same length. Bom fim-de-semana, Matthias Am 23.10.2013 18:42, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: Funny, today there's a blog speaking of promotional leaflets : http://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/ I see that the idea of a portuguese flyer is in good shape but didn't know how I can help you, I can't speak german ;-) I also think the best pictures are for Lisboa in the low zoom and Porto with the high zoom. Francisco. - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 23/10/2013 14:56:47 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? Am 21.10.2013 20:45, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: I've not replied because I don't know ;-) Não tem problema ;) All the mapping party I've heard have been organized by the OSGeo Local Chapter, I don't think they have an OSM flyer (I hope someone could prove me wrong :-) but it's a very good idea to have one. They used to have a wiki and a dedicated page for mapping events (but it's down) : http://wiki.osgeopt.pt/index.php/Vamos_mapear_Portugal Hopefully some OSGeo members read this list and you'll get an answer, if not we can cross-post to the OSGeo mailing list for a larger audience : http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/portugal/ Their list is not OSM related but they are a bigger community so they will have better idea for sponsors and publishing partners. I contacted the OSGeoPT and the president Jorge agreed, that the *chapter will spend the money* and deal with the printing if we finished the localisation. I also contacted Frederik (Geofabrik chef), if he is ok with replacing their promotion at the flyer with an OSGeo 'advertising'. He is very ok with that and offered us to create a *high res map rendering* for the flyer. So now the question is, *which areas* we like to see at the flyer? There is one place at one folding segment and second one what covers 2xsegments. At the german flyer they use the city Münster with low zoom and Berlin for the bigger area. Hmm so use Lisboa and Porto? Matthias - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 21/10/2013 20:38:19 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? As nobody replyed, I like to ask more specific: Woul it be ok to you, if *I ask some locals* to create portueuse translation of the official flyer? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2010_thumb.png (I think I will use the more recent version, but sadly its just in DE http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/File:OSM_flyer_2011_german.jpg) For *printing* a few thousands that can be spread to local mappers, will there be a organization that likes to sponsor and get's a attribution on the flyer? I would replace the german book with the english edition, ok? http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Books#OpenStreetMap:_Using_and_Enhancing_the_Free_Map_of_the_World Should I ask OSMF or do you know any local sponsor or at least a Portuguese online service to order the prints? I will try to create another A5 flyer dedicated to the use of the notes function, that allows locals to
Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!)
Olá Procurámos seguir o texto, mas em algumas frases fizemos um pequeno trabalho de adaptação. Como critica construtiva ao texto, um dos nossos colaboradores dizia que estava demasiado german e pouco user friendly -motivating -USA way se nos fazemos entender. Acabámos por acordar nesta redacção: INICIO TEXTO / ADAPTAÇÂO Junta-te ao OpenStreetMap! Explora com um mapa mundial livre e gratuito. Podes encontrar o website em www.openstreetmap.org. Existe uma Wiki com muita informação e um mapa livre e gratuito. Em www.openstreetmap.pt encontrarás a entrada para a comunidade Portuguesa e ligações para fóruns e listas de correio electrónico. O livro “Using and Enhancing the Free Map of the World” de Frederik Ramm e Jochen Top foi publicado pela Lehmanns Media e explica todos os detalhes desde gravar os dados até desenhar os teus próprios mapas. O OpenStreetMap distribui todos os dados sob a licença Open Database License 1.0; qualquer um os pode usar, desde que quaisquer alterações também sejam publicadas sob a mesma licença aberta. O mapa de Lisboa nesta página e a zona em destaque, incluindo o Mundo na página principal, foram criados através de software de código aberto usando os dados do OpenStreetMap. O custo para criar e imprimir este panfleto foi suportado pela Geofabrik GmbH (www.geofabrik.de), que oferece serviços de desenvolvimento de software, consultoria, e serviços de dados e mapas para o OpenStreetMap. turn page Porquê um mapa da Terra livre e gratuito? Na internet é possível encontrar muitos mapas e plantas de cidades gratuitos. Mas estes serviços são oferecidos para uso privado e não é permitida a sua republicação; assim, num panfleto como este não seria permitido usá-los. A informação também não é muitas vezes actual ou completa, e erros óbvios demoram muito tempo a ser corrigidos. Mas, ainda mais importante, apenas recebemos as imagens do mapa - não os dados, a base para criar o mapa. É necessário ter acesso a estes dados se quiseres produzir os teus próprios mapas, alterar mapas existentes para mostrar num serviço móvel, ou para calcular uma rota personalizada. Como funciona o OpenStreetMap? Recolhemos dados para o OpenStreetMap de várias formas. Dispositivos GPS e notas manuais são a maneira mais clássica; o GPS grava a rota por onde caminhamos e tomamos nota dos pontos de interesse por onde passamos. Neste momento também podemos usar imagens aéreas. Um editor para o OpenStreetMap mostra-te imagens aéreas e caminhos percorridos com o GPS, para além de mostrar dados já adicionados. Estradas, edifícios, florestas ou lagos podem ser traçados através das imagens aéreas. Mas detalhes como números de edifícios, nomes de ruas, ou pontos de interesse não estão lá. Estes detalhes interessantes como um pelourinho, uma fonte, podem ser adicionados com o teu conhecimento local, ou de um outro colaborador. Os dados resultantes são transferidos para uma base de dados do projecto. Assim, criamos automaticamente o mapa final e, após um curto espaço de tempo (normalmente menos de uma hora), todos podem ver as novas alterações. (at the sketch): GPS-Track, imagens aéreas, editor, mapa resultante FIM DO TEXTO A equipa TopoLusitania PS: Atendendo ao publico alvo do folheto, o tratamento tu em vez de você não nos levanta problemas. In english and some french to try to pass the ideias ;-) We tried to follow the text but adapted it sligtly. One of the points is that the text is not so much user friendly - motivating as it could be We agreed in the presented translation Prenant en conte le public ciblé, le tutoier du texte pose pas de probleme. Public ciblé - Target public - Comme Tintim , pour les jeunes volontaires de 7 a 77 Target public - Young volunteers from 7 to 77 years old On Friday, October 25, 2013 9:28 PM, f.dos.san...@free.fr f.dos.san...@free.fr wrote: I'll add one more : the first 2 sentences use the word gratuito (free as in free beer), it should use the word livre (free as in free speech). It doesn't matter much in the turn page as it discuss the other online free map but it's important to make it clear on the first sentence. I recommend to use both terms in the same sentence to make it obvious : um mapa livre e gratuito - Mail original - From: Mauro Santos registo.maill...@gmail.com To: talk-pt talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 25/10/2013 20:35:37 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!) The translation looks good. I've spotted a couple typos s/eligações/e ligações/ and s/azona/a zona/. The other thing I've noticed, and I don't know very well how to explain it in english, is that the verbs have been conjugated in a way that it seems the writer knows the reader personally (and are friends). What I mean is, Podes encontrar o web... is similar to Tu podes encontrar o web..., using Tu is not polite if you don't know the other person. Personally I prefer to see Pode encontrar o web
Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!)
I've updated the wiki. I think the tone is good, very directed to the reader, as in OSM needs you ! Surely it will bring a reaction on the reader :-) I'm ok too with the word open-source, some other word need probably a bit more thinking, for example the word notas looks too much as a translation from english (I think as something like apontamentos). There's another big mistake in the text : Em www.openstreetmap.pt encontrarás a entrada para a comunidade Portuguesa e ligações para fóruns e listas de correio electrónico. The openstreetmap.pt domain have been reserved, there is a wordpress running but it seems nobody touch it recently, actually is not very useful. If we want to keep it in the leaflet, it's best to do something on the website (to the people who has the key of the website, feel free to ask for help on this list ;-). And we have no forum, just the mailing list (and an IRC channel which nobody have heard of it :-). Francisco - Mail original - De: Mauro Santos registo.maill...@gmail.com À: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Envoyé: Samedi 26 Octobre 2013 00:28:25 Objet: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? (needs YOUR review!) On 25-10-2013 22:57, Matthias Meisser wrote: Am 25.10.2013 19:35, schrieb Mauro Santos: The translation looks good. I've spotted a couple typos s/eligações/e ligações/ and s/azona/a zona/. Obrigado! The other thing I've noticed, and I don't know very well how to explain it in english, is that the verbs have been conjugated in a way that it seems the writer knows the reader personally (and are friends). What I mean is, Podes encontrar o web... is similar to Tu podes encontrar o web..., using Tu is not polite if you don't know the other person. Personally I prefer to see Pode encontrar o web I suppose that teenagers don't care about how it's written but someone the age of their parents (or older) might not like it, I'd say that the flyer should try not to give a bad first impression. I guess this was mixed as english just knows 'you' (you boy vs. you sir), so I think Miguel just choose what sounds reasonable to him. A more serious tone would b appreciated IMHO and is used in DE edition, too. Finally, where it says open-source software, does it mean open source or free software[1]? [1] http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/free-sw.html#open-source Wow, I guess this is getting political ;) I made just the translation an DE also used open source that is IMHO more a buzzword to non-geeks than free software. As the topic of the flyer is free mapping, we IMHO should avoid to get to close into details, but maybe you prefer using a different term for FLOSS? My idea was not to make it a political discussion but I agree that it might have come across looking like that. My idea was to be accurate/correct because ... we should/can be :p I do have to agree that for the general audience open source will be easier to recognize and identify with than free software. Matthias On 25-10-2013 18:36, Matthias Meisser wrote: Hi, thanks to my colleague Miguel here at ISCTE, we have a first translation in Portuguese: http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/User:!i!/PT_flyer So please review and improve it if you like. We also need a new paragraph on the OSGeo PT, ideally with the same length. Bom fim-de-semana, Matthias Am 23.10.2013 18:42, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: Funny, today there's a blog speaking of promotional leaflets : http://blog.gravitystorm.co.uk/ I see that the idea of a portuguese flyer is in good shape but didn't know how I can help you, I can't speak german ;-) I also think the best pictures are for Lisboa in the low zoom and Porto with the high zoom. Francisco. - Mail original - From: Matthias Meisser dig...@arcor.de To: talk-pt@openstreetmap.org Date: 23/10/2013 14:56:47 Subject: Re: [Talk-pt] Portuguese flyer? Am 21.10.2013 20:45, schrieb f.dos.san...@free.fr: I've not replied because I don't know ;-) Não tem problema ;) All the mapping party I've heard have been organized by the OSGeo Local Chapter, I don't think they have an OSM flyer (I hope someone could prove me wrong :-) but it's a very good idea to have one. They used to have a wiki and a dedicated page for mapping events (but it's down) : http://wiki.osgeopt.pt/index.php/Vamos_mapear_Portugal Hopefully some OSGeo members read this list and you'll get an answer, if not we can cross-post to the OSGeo mailing list for a larger audience : http://lists.osgeo.org/pipermail/portugal/ Their list is not OSM related but they are a bigger community so they will have better idea for sponsors and publishing partners. I contacted the OSGeoPT and the president Jorge agreed, that the *chapter will spend the money* and deal with the printing if we finished the localisation. I also contacted Frederik (Geofabrik chef), if he is ok with replacing their promotion at the flyer with an OSGeo 'advertising'.
