Re: [Talk-us] Blue Ridge Parkway

[Mike Thompson]

On Tue, Jan 31, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Frederik Ramm  wrote:

>   I added the takeaway from this discussion to the wiki:
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%
> 3Aboundary%3Dnational_park=revision=1424102=1373291
>
> Feel free to amend as necessary.
>
> I made an amendment to state that one of the purposes of a national park
may be to protect the cultural heritage of an area.
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/w/index.php?title=Tag%3Aboundary%3Dnational_park=revision=1425148=1424249
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[Talk-us] weeklyOSM #341 24/01/2017-03/02/2017

[weeklyteam]

The weekly round-up of OSM news, issue # 341,
is now available online in English, giving as always a summary of all things 
happening in the openstreetmap world:

http://www.weeklyosm.eu/en/archives/8683/

Enjoy!

weeklyOSM?
who?: https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/WeeklyOSM#Available_Languages 
where?: 
https://umap.openstreetmap.fr/en/map/weeklyosm-is-currently-produced-in_56718#2/8.6/108.3
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Re: [Talk-us] Combined parking/bike lanes

[Harald Kliems]

Bradley, in colder climates the difference is more than aesthetic. A lot of
these bike become unusable for people riding bikes in the winter because
they don't get fully plowed to the curb and then parked cars take up the
whole remainder of the lane. Admittedly, this often also happens where
there is a striped bike lane, but the paint seems to keep the bad parking
somewhat in check. Example, also from Madison, of painted separation
between bike lane and parking:
https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/915muSHHc8hk1qgOe6eDlA You can see that
some cars on the left are encroaching to some extent, but it's much better.
But yeah, not sure what a good solution for tagging is.

 Harald.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 12:12 PM Bradley White 
wrote:

> > Hi all. Has anyone worked out a good tagging scheme for combined
> > bike/parking lanes? I'm not sure how common they are elsewhere but there
> > are a number of such facilities in my city.
> >
> > For reference, you can see an example here:
> >
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=43.06056159=-89.45121134=17=XByvWxyrk9quLK-noyoB5g=photo=mapbox_streets
> > Notice the bike lane sign above the speed limit sign and the cars parked
> on
> > the side. These are also accompanied with pavement markings indicating it
> > is a bicycle facility. In effect it's like a regular bike lane next to a
> > parking lane, but there's no stripe to separate the two.
>
> These types of lanes are relatively common in parts of northern
> California as well; since the physical space is still set aside for
> both parking and cycling, and the only difference is the inner line of
> paint (which is more a "stylistic" choice on part of the agency), I'm
> not convinced this needs special tagging. The tags suggested earlier
> are what I would use:
>
> > parking:lane:(right/left) = parallel
> > cycleway:(left/right) = lane
>
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Re: [Talk-us] tagging rumble-strip-separated road shoulders

[Spencer Gardner]

shoulder(left/right)=yes
shoulder:(left/right):rumble_strip=yes

Would make sense to me.

Just a side note that rumble strips are decidedly not better for cyclists
if the shoulder is narrow enough that the cyclist is left with insufficient
space to navigate without riding over them. It might be good to note the
shoulder width in such cases.
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Re: [Talk-us] Combined parking/bike lanes

[Bradley White]

> Hi all. Has anyone worked out a good tagging scheme for combined
> bike/parking lanes? I'm not sure how common they are elsewhere but there
> are a number of such facilities in my city.
>
> For reference, you can see an example here:
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=43.06056159=-89.45121134=17=XByvWxyrk9quLK-noyoB5g=photo=mapbox_streets
> Notice the bike lane sign above the speed limit sign and the cars parked on
> the side. These are also accompanied with pavement markings indicating it
> is a bicycle facility. In effect it's like a regular bike lane next to a
> parking lane, but there's no stripe to separate the two.

These types of lanes are relatively common in parts of northern
California as well; since the physical space is still set aside for
both parking and cycling, and the only difference is the inner line of
paint (which is more a "stylistic" choice on part of the agency), I'm
not convinced this needs special tagging. The tags suggested earlier
are what I would use:

> parking:lane:(right/left) = parallel
> cycleway:(left/right) = lane

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Re: [Talk-us] tagging rumble-strip-separated road shoulders

[Volker Schmidt]

Hi Paul
Thanks for the quick reaction - I knew you would reply.

>
> Well, the shoulder wouldn't count as a lane (a bicycle lane would,
> however).  Not quite sure how to tag the bicycle use shoulder case (though
> I am aware that it is extremely common in the US), but if it were an
> actual, bicycle-only lane instead, assuming three lanes on a side with the
> right lane being bicycle only, and signage indicating that bicycles must
> use the bicycle lane:
>
> lanes=3
> oneway=yes
> cycleway=lane
> motor_vehicle:lanes=yes|yes|no
> bicycle:lanes=no|no|designated
>

This does not reflect the real situation, which is the presence of an
emergency stop lane for motor vehicles, which may be used by bicycles. It
is different from a dedicated cycle lane, which is what your tagging
describes.  I have seen and ysed a number of bicycle lanes in the US that
"deserve" your tagging.
The shoulder=yes tag is being used a lot in combination with bicycle=yes
http://overpass-turbo.eu/map.html?Q=%2F*%0AThis%20has%20been%20generated%20by%20the%20overpass-turbo%20wizard.%0AThe%20original%20search%20was%3A%0A%E2%80%9Cshoulder%3Dyes%20and%20bicycle%3Dyes%E2%80%9D%0A*%2F%0A%5Bout%3Ajson%5D%5Btimeout%3A25%5D%3B%0A%2F%2F%20gather%20results%0A(%0A%20%20%2F%2F%20query%20part%20for%3A%20%E2%80%9Cshoulder%3Dyes%20and%20bicycle%3Dyes%E2%80%9D%0A%20%20node%5B%22shoulder%22%3D%22yes%22%5D%5B%22bicycle%22%3D%22yes%22%5D(33.17434155100208%2C-116.773681640625%2C36.98939086733937%2C-112.48901367187499)%3B%0A%20%20way%5B%22shoulder%22%3D%22yes%22%5D%5B%22bicycle%22%3D%22yes%22%5D(33.17434155100208%2C-116.773681640625%2C36.98939086733937%2C-112.48901367187499)%3B%0A%20%20relation%5B%22shoulder%22%3D%22yes%22%5D%5B%22bicycle%22%3D%22yes%22%5D(33.17434155100208%2C-116.773681640625%2C36.98939086733937%2C-112.48901367187499)%3B%0A)%3B%0A%2F%2F%20print%20results%0Aout%20body%3B%0A%3E%3B%0Aout%20skel%20qt%3B


> This may seem overkill to some people, but I'm aware of quite a few places
> where there's multiple bicycle lanes, where the bicycle lane is not the
> curb lane, and other arrangements that would otherwise just mess up lane
> guidance if you omit this and I've found fun edge cases in almost as many
> places as I've found bicycle lanes.
>

That is OK, but, as I said , is different from the cases I am describing


>
>
>> (2) how to tag longitudinal rumble strips,
>> (situated between motorized-traffic lanes and shoulders, example: [1],
>> not the "sleeping policeman" type that goes across the road nd which is
>> normally tagged as traffic_calming=rumble_strip on a node of the highway)
>> To tag their presence is important because they represent an augmented
>> protection of cyclists on the shoulder from cars invading the shoulder by
>> mistake, i.e. reduced risk of being killed.
>> To note that I have encountered rumble-strip-separated shoulders also on
>> roads below the rank of trunk or motorway
>>
>
> I'm not quite sure how necessary it is at this point.  The kind of example
> you have provided is being phased out in favor of strips with gaps in them
> so bicyclists can get on and off the shoulder without dealing with the
> rumbles, or eliminated on roads with a narrow hard shoulder.  In both
> cases, for the reason for that is that not taking bicycles into account
> does more harm than good.  This is true even on routes that are normally
> closed to bicyclists except when police tell you to use it anyway (like
> Interstate 70 in Kansas).
>
My point maybe was not clear enough: I would like to tag the longitudinal
rumble strips, independently of whether they are continuous or interrupted,
because I want to be able to classify route sections according to their
level of bicycle safety. If I have a stretch of motorway with a shoulder,
this same stretch is safer for bicycle use when a rumble strip is present
than when it is not, because it reduces the risk of a motor vehicle
invading the shoulder.


Volker
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Re: [Talk-us] Combined parking/bike lanes

[Spencer Gardner]

The problem I see with that approach is that it doesn't distinguish between
a road with a striped bike lane next to a parking lane and a road with the
combined lane. In terms of the distribution of space on the road it might
be the same but it's different psychologically and is considered a
different facility from an engineering perspective.

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 11:44 AM, David Chiles  wrote:

>
> Would the following tags work?
>
> parking:lane:(right/left) = parallel
> cycleway:(left/right) = lane
>
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:parking:lane
> https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dlane
>
> On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Spencer Gardner 
> wrote:
>
>> Hi all. Has anyone worked out a good tagging scheme for combined
>> bike/parking lanes? I'm not sure how common they are elsewhere but there
>> are a number of such facilities in my city.
>>
>> For reference, you can see an example here:
>> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=43.06056159=-89.45121
>> 134=17=XByvWxyrk9quLK-noyoB5g=photo=mapbox_streets
>> Notice the bike lane sign above the speed limit sign and the cars parked
>> on the side. These are also accompanied with pavement markings indicating
>> it is a bicycle facility. In effect it's like a regular bike lane next to a
>> parking lane, but there's no stripe to separate the two.
>>
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>>
>
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Re: [Talk-us] Combined parking/bike lanes

[David Chiles]

Would the following tags work?

parking:lane:(right/left) = parallel
cycleway:(left/right) = lane

https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Key:parking:lane
https://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Tag:cycleway%3Dlane

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 9:11 AM, Spencer Gardner 
wrote:

> Hi all. Has anyone worked out a good tagging scheme for combined
> bike/parking lanes? I'm not sure how common they are elsewhere but there
> are a number of such facilities in my city.
>
> For reference, you can see an example here:
> https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=43.06056159=-89.45121134=17=
> XByvWxyrk9quLK-noyoB5g=photo=mapbox_streets
> Notice the bike lane sign above the speed limit sign and the cars parked
> on the side. These are also accompanied with pavement markings indicating
> it is a bicycle facility. In effect it's like a regular bike lane next to a
> parking lane, but there's no stripe to separate the two.
>
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[Talk-us] Combined parking/bike lanes

[Spencer Gardner]

Hi all. Has anyone worked out a good tagging scheme for combined
bike/parking lanes? I'm not sure how common they are elsewhere but there
are a number of such facilities in my city.

For reference, you can see an example here:
https://www.mapillary.com/app/?lat=43.06056159=-89.45121134=17=XByvWxyrk9quLK-noyoB5g=photo=mapbox_streets
Notice the bike lane sign above the speed limit sign and the cars parked on
the side. These are also accompanied with pavement markings indicating it
is a bicycle facility. In effect it's like a regular bike lane next to a
parking lane, but there's no stripe to separate the two.
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Re: [Talk-us] [Talk-US] tagging rumble-strip-separated road shoulders

[Paul Johnson]

On Fri, Feb 3, 2017 at 7:15 AM, Volker Schmidt  wrote:

> Last fall I travelled by bike the ACA Route 66 westbound. Long stretches
> are on freeway/trunk shoulders.
> I think I know how to map shoulders:
> highway=motorway|trunk
> oneway=yes
> shoulder=right
> shoulder:surface= ...
> shoulder:width= ...
> shoulder:smoothness ...
>
> In the case of undivided roads:
> highway= ...
> oneway=no
> shoulder=right|left|both
> shoulder:surface= ... OR shoulder:right:surface= ... OR
> shoulder:left:surface=
> shoulder:width= ... OR shoulder:right:width= ... OR shoulder:left:width=
> shoulder:smoothness ... OR shoulder:right:smoothness= ... OR
> shoulder:left:smoothness=
>


Two questions arise:
>
>
>
> *(1) How to tag the bicycle access:*
> on the highway with bicycle=yes
> or restricted to the shoulder with the lane= tag: lane:bicycle=no|no|yes
> (in case of a two lane-plus-shoulder highway.
> Problem with the bicycle tagging on the shoulder only is that bicycle
> routing algorithms won't route you across access ramps, which are
> implicitly bicycle=no.
> In fact there is even a legal problem there: many freeways have signs:
> "bicycle use shoulder" which you cannot obey at the ramps.
>

Well, the shoulder wouldn't count as a lane (a bicycle lane would,
however).  Not quite sure how to tag the bicycle use shoulder case (though
I am aware that it is extremely common in the US), but if it were an
actual, bicycle-only lane instead, assuming three lanes on a side with the
right lane being bicycle only, and signage indicating that bicycles must
use the bicycle lane:

lanes=3
oneway=yes
cycleway=lane
motor_vehicle:lanes=yes|yes|no
bicycle:lanes=no|no|designated

This may seem overkill to some people, but I'm aware of quite a few places
where there's multiple bicycle lanes, where the bicycle lane is not the
curb lane, and other arrangements that would otherwise just mess up lane
guidance if you omit this and I've found fun edge cases in almost as many
places as I've found bicycle lanes.


> (2) how to tag longitudinal rumble strips,
> (situated between motorized-traffic lanes and shoulders, example: [1], not
> the "sleeping policeman" type that goes across the road nd which is
> normally tagged as traffic_calming=rumble_strip on a node of the highway)
> To tag their presence is important because they represent an augmented
> protection of cyclists on the shoulder from cars invading the shoulder by
> mistake, i.e. reduced risk of being killed.
> To note that I have encountered rumble-strip-separated shoulders also on
> roads below the rank of trunk or motorway
>

I'm not quite sure how necessary it is at this point.  The kind of example
you have provided is being phased out in favor of strips with gaps in them
so bicyclists can get on and off the shoulder without dealing with the
rumbles, or eliminated on roads with a narrow hard shoulder.  In both
cases, for the reason for that is that not taking bicycles into account
does more harm than good.  This is true even on routes that are normally
closed to bicyclists except when police tell you to use it anyway (like
Interstate 70 in Kansas).
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[Talk-us] [Talk-US] tagging rumble-strip-separated road shoulders

[Volker Schmidt]

Last fall I travelled by bike the ACA Route 66 westbound. Long stretches
are on freeway/trunk shoulders.
I think I know how to map shoulders:
highway=motorway|trunk
oneway=yes
shoulder=right
shoulder:surface= ...
shoulder:width= ...
shoulder:smoothness ...

In the case of undivided roads:
highway= ...
oneway=no
shoulder=right|left|both
shoulder:surface= ... OR shoulder:right:surface= ... OR
shoulder:left:surface=
shoulder:width= ... OR shoulder:right:width= ... OR shoulder:left:width=
shoulder:smoothness ... OR shoulder:right:smoothness= ... OR
shoulder:left:smoothness=

Two questions arise:



*(1) How to tag the bicycle access:*
on the highway with bicycle=yes
or restricted to the shoulder with the lane= tag: lane:bicycle=no|no|yes
(in case of a two lane-plus-shoulder highway.
Problem with the bicycle tagging on the shoulder only is that bicycle
routing algorithms won't route you across access ramps, which are
implicitly bicycle=no.
In fact there is even a legal problem there: many freeways have signs:
"bicycle use shoulder" which you cannot obey at the ramps.

(2) how to tag longitudinal rumble strips,
(situated between motorized-traffic lanes and shoulders, example: [1], not
the "sleeping policeman" type that goes across the road nd which is
normally tagged as traffic_calming=rumble_strip on a node of the highway)
To tag their presence is important because they represent an augmented
protection of cyclists on the shoulder from cars invading the shoulder by
mistake, i.e. reduced risk of being killed.
To note that I have encountered rumble-strip-separated shoulders also on
roads below the rank of trunk or motorway

Volker
(Padova, Italy)

[1] https://www.mapillary.com/map/im/4SFBFwxPLQHq2g-FJ2Qaag
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