Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks and trails

2011-05-13 Thread Paul Johnson 
On 05/13/2011 09:48 AM, PJ Houser wrote:
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:16:04 -0700
> From: Paul Johnson  <mailto:ba...@ursamundi.org>>
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> <mailto:talk-us@openstreetmap.org>
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails
> Message-ID:  <mailto:1...@dough.gmane.org>>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
> 
> On 05/12/2011 07:05 PM, PJ Houser wrote:
> 
> > It's more like an access path to the trail.
> >
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25 
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25>
> >
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25
> <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25>>
> 
> Looks like a sidewalk for the adjacent park and ride driveway, intended
> for pedestrians only.  I wouldn't give it a name, and I'd tag it as a
> footway.  Also, the powell boulevard access, I noticed someone
> disconnected them from Powell, and gave it names that aren't.  Names
> should be the name only, not a description.
> 
> 
> If I remember right, the Powells access point was incorrect. It connects
> further down the road, like a zigzag, but it is connected to the road.
> However, I'll check on it again when I get a chance! Thanks for the
> heads up.

I don't recall any barrier at the stop sign other than the lack of a
ramp, and most (all?) people turning at Powell ignore that...

> Will you be able to make it today?

I got roped into a trip down to Dallas with friends to go see movies at
the drive-in tonight...



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Re: [Talk-us] Sidewalks and trails

2011-05-13 Thread PJ Houser 
>
> Message: 2
> Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:16:04 -0700
> From: Paul Johnson 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 05/12/2011 07:05 PM, PJ Houser wrote:
>
> > It's more like an access path to the trail.
> > http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25
> > <http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25>
>
> Looks like a sidewalk for the adjacent park and ride driveway, intended
> for pedestrians only.  I wouldn't give it a name, and I'd tag it as a
> footway.  Also, the powell boulevard access, I noticed someone
> disconnected them from Powell, and gave it names that aren't.  Names
> should be the name only, not a description.
>

If I remember right, the Powells access point was incorrect. It connects
further down the road, like a zigzag, but it is connected to the road.
However, I'll check on it again when I get a chance! Thanks for the heads
up.

As for the sidewalk thing, it is for the bikepath, but the naming looks
weird on a renderer. Maybe today at the meet and greet, we can figure out
the best way to go about it. Maybe no name...  I know as a cyclist,
sometimes I can't figure out how I'm supposed to get onto a multi-use path,
so I personally like having access paths on there, routed from a road to the
path.

Will you be able to make it today?
--
PJ Houser
Trimet
GIS intern, 503-962-5711 (office)
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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-13 Thread Sax-Barnett, Melelani 
There is definitely at least one segment where it's a sidewalk over by
the slough near the airport (I used to ride it all the time to
Vancouver). It's just for a block or two, but it's on the sidewalk.
Looks like it's just tagged as a cycleway along the side of the road for
now: http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.567406&lon=-122.551772&zoom=18
(take a look at it in Potlach to see the aerial).

-Mele Sax-Barnett
TriMet
GIS Intern

> On 05/03/2011 05:39 PM, PJ Houser wrote:
> > Sidewalks as separate ways.
> >
> > I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for
some
> > portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping
sidewalks
> > as a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do
this
> > for the parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile.
However,
> > the approved tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The
trails
> > I'm working on are multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so
would
> > I need to add path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?
>
> Where is it a sidewalk?  I could be wrong, but I swear I've been up
and
> down this several times and can't recall a segment where it runs on
the
> sidewalks.
>

It's more like an access path to the trail.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25


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Message: 2
Date: Thu, 12 May 2011 20:16:04 -0700
From: Paul Johnson 
To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
Subject: Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

On 05/12/2011 07:05 PM, PJ Houser wrote:

> It's more like an access path to the trail.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25
>
<http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25>

Looks like a sidewalk for the adjacent park and ride driveway, intended
for pedestrians only.  I wouldn't give it a name, and I'd tag it as a
footway.  Also, the powell boulevard access, I noticed someone
disconnected them from Powell, and gave it names that aren't.  Names
should be the name only, not a description.

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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-12 Thread Paul Johnson 
On 05/12/2011 07:05 PM, PJ Houser wrote:

> It's more like an access path to the trail.
> http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25
> 

Looks like a sidewalk for the adjacent park and ride driveway, intended
for pedestrians only.  I wouldn't give it a name, and I'd tag it as a
footway.  Also, the powell boulevard access, I noticed someone
disconnected them from Powell, and gave it names that aren't.  Names
should be the name only, not a description.



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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-12 Thread PJ Houser 
>
> Message: 4
> Date: Wed, 11 May 2011 21:53:17 -0700
> From: Paul Johnson 
> To: talk-us@openstreetmap.org
> Subject: Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails
> Message-ID: 
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"
>
> On 05/03/2011 05:39 PM, PJ Houser wrote:
> > Sidewalks as separate ways.
> >
> > I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
> > portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks
> > as a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this
> > for the parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However,
> > the approved tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails
> > I'm working on are multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would
> > I need to add path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?
>
> Where is it a sidewalk?  I could be wrong, but I swear I've been up and
> down this several times and can't recall a segment where it runs on the
> sidewalks.
>

It's more like an access path to the trail.
http://www.openstreetmap.org/?lat=45.4958719&lon=-122.5673215&zoom=25


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Trimet
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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-11 Thread Paul Johnson 
On 05/03/2011 05:39 PM, PJ Houser wrote:
> Sidewalks as separate ways.
> 
> I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
> portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks
> as a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this
> for the parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However,
> the approved tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails
> I'm working on are multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would
> I need to add path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?

Where is it a sidewalk?  I could be wrong, but I swear I've been up and
down this several times and can't recall a segment where it runs on the
sidewalks.



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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-03 Thread Nathan Edgars II 

On 5/3/2011 8:39 PM, PJ Houser wrote:

Sidewalks as separate ways.

I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks
as a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this
for the parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However,
the approved tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails
I'm working on are multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would
I need to add path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?


If it's truly a sidewalk (rather than a sidepath) it should probably be 
highway=footway, with bicycle=yes (or bicycle=designated?) if bikes are 
allowed.


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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-03 Thread Serge Wroclawski 
On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:39 PM, PJ Houser
 wrote:
> Sidewalks as separate ways.
>
> I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
> portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks as
> a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this for the
> parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However, the approved
> tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails I'm working on are
> multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would I need to add
> path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?

"Approved" is an odd term in OSM.

There's no editor support for it, no renderer support for it, etc.

I'd suggest that if you have paths, they're not sidewalks, they're
paths. And if you have sidewalks along roads, I should bring up my
proposal for simple sidewalk tagging back on the tagging list. I
already have editor support, and have been talking with the mapnik
folks about ways to make renderers support it, as well as routers.

The problem with doing sidewalks as separate ways is that unless you
use a relation, you lose the road data, and there's no relation which
is supported for this. That was never voted on or brought up in the
proposal, which is why I thought it was so ill-conceived.

- Serge

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Re: [Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-03 Thread Josh Doe 
This probably should belong on tagging, so I've cc'ed it there, also
you could add to the talk page.

That's a good question, and something I've thought about recently as
well. I've really liked the footway=crossing tag, even more so than
footway=sidewalk, so I've started using path=crossing as well. This of
course opens the possibility of path=sidewalk, cycleway=sidewalk and
cycleway=crossing, and who knows what else.

I think "sidewalk" might be an unfortunate term, since what we're
really talking about is a way/"path" that is associated with a roadway
to provide an alternate path of travel for non-motor vehicles, usually
pedestrians but could include cyclists as well. After using
footway=sidewalk for a while now, I tend to see it as a temporary
measure, in other words that once type=street relations are created
for every street+sidewalk combination, we'll no longer need the tag.
In that sense footway=sidewalk is more of a hint to data consumers and
a guide for future contributors to "fix" the situation be creating a
relation (perhaps assisted by a semi-automatic tool to generate
street+sidewalk pairs). If you take this interpretation of things then
path=sidewalk is perfectly fine, in spite of sidewalk being a bit of a
misnomer.

Regards,
-Josh

On Tue, May 3, 2011 at 8:39 PM, PJ Houser
 wrote:
> Sidewalks as separate ways.
>
> I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
> portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks as
> a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this for the
> parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However, the approved
> tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails I'm working on are
> multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would I need to add
> path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?
>
>  http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sidewalk_as_separate_way
> --
> PJ Houser
> Trimet
> GIS intern, 503-962-5711 (office)
>
>
>
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[Talk-us] sidewalks and trails

2011-05-03 Thread PJ Houser 
Sidewalks as separate ways.

I am working on some multi-use paths that travel on sidewalks for some
portions, like the I-205 corridor in Portland, Oregon. Mapping sidewalks as
a separate way is now an approved practice, and I'd like to do this for the
parts of the trail that become a sidewalk for awhile. However, the approved
tagging is highway=footway, footway=sidewalk. The trails I'm working on are
multi-use, thus they should be highway=path, so would I need to add
path=sidewalk to indicate they are a sidewalk?


http://wiki.openstreetmap.org/wiki/Proposed_features/Sidewalk_as_separate_way
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