RE: [Texascavers] Re: Digital vs. Print
I'm in the process of pursuing the bulk mail rate/permit for us, Logan, as I plan on continuing to do the newsletter for the foreseeable future. (Sorry to tell y'all that!) I'll let the membership know how it's proceeding in January, but, I'm not stepping foot in the post office until after Christmas! Good point about the back issues, Anyway you or Lee Jay could bring ~12 of the recent issues to the winter meeting at CBSP? A certain vivacious Vice-Chair Elect is hounding me to get her some back issues! Thanks, Mark From: Logan McNatt [mailto:lmcn...@austin.rr.com] Sent: Sun 12/13/2009 7:21 PM To: 'TexasCavers' Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Digital vs. Print I am one of those antiquated bibliophiles who prefers a hard copy of The Texas Caver, but I certainly support the use of electronic copies for all that prefer them. I would be willing to pay the extra cost of printed issues. Questions for Mark: What happened to using the Bulk Mailing Rate? I assume it requires a minimum number of copies, and perhaps we don't meet that? I like the color photos, but how much do they add to the cost of printing compared to the same photos in BW? Just curious; I'm not advocating all BW. Logan (Caretaker of approximately 20,000 back issues of The Texas Caver owned by TSA, most of which are not available electronically, but can be yours for about 25 to 50 cents each. A treasure trove of maps, photos, trip reports, etc.; buy now before they're all gone!) - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Digital
I want the quality copy for my Library. I have a collection going back into the 60 tys. --- On Fri, 12/11/09, Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org wrote: From: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Digital To: Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org Cc: Pete Lindsley caverp...@gmail.com, TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com, Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com List-Post: texascavers@texascavers.com Date: Friday, December 11, 2009, 3:00 PM I'm ok with you wanting a high quality print Jim, and most people are. But why should the majority of the TSA membership pay for a few people that want the high quality? If the majority of the whole membership wants to continue paying, I'm ok with it, but it always seems that the people who want the hardcopy is in the minority. My opinion, we put a monetary value with it, if you want a printed hard copy, mailed to you, you get to pay extra :) That would help cover the rising costs of printing and mailing it, and would push more people to use the digital copy. I know a lot of people are against this, no one wants to spend more money, but lets be realistic for a bit and humor me. Prices are going to continue to go up on postage and printing costs. TSA is in the black right now, largely due to the few who went Digital. As overhead continues to go up, do we adjust membership fees? My vote, drop mailing copies (cept to those who want to pay a surcharge for it) and go Digital completely. This would save TSA a lot of money, save Mark's sanity, and free up a lot of TSA money for other things. You could even drop rates for TSA membership if you wanted. Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org wrote: We have already. It was decided to offer both. Libraries in particular (including the TSS) don't like digital publications. And bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Digital vs. Print
I am one of those antiquated bibliophiles who prefers a hard copy of The Texas Caver, but I certainly support the use of electronic copies for all that prefer them. I would be willing to pay the extra cost of printed issues. Questions for Mark: What happened to using the Bulk Mailing Rate? I assume it requires a minimum number of copies, and perhaps we don't meet that? I like the color photos, but how much do they add to the cost of printing compared to the same photos in BW? Just curious; I'm not advocating all BW. Logan (Caretaker of approximately 20,000 back issues of The Texas Caver owned by TSA, most of which are not available electronically, but can be yours for about 25 to 50 cents each. A treasure trove of maps, photos, trip reports, etc.; buy now before they're all gone!) George Veni wrote: Many organizations now offer two membership rates: 1) Includes the cost of general newsletter production, web hosting, and other support for the organization, and those members get a digital copy of the publication. 2) Includes the above costs plus the cost of printing and mailing the publications to those who need or want hardcopies. It is understood that with fewer printed copies, the cost per copy will increase and those asking for hardcopies will pay a higher rate than when the publications were printed for everyone. I won't be able to make the next TSA meeting, but hope this dual membership rate is voted on. Digital members should not have to subsidize hardcopy members, and hardcopy members should not have to do without a product that is important to them and relatively simple for the organization to produce. George -Original Message- From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:jkenn...@batcon.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:55 PM To: Charles Goldsmith; Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Digital We have already. It was decided to offer both. Libraries in particular (including the TSS) don't like digital publications. And bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: Digital
Many organizations now offer two membership rates: 1) Includes the cost of general newsletter production, web hosting, and other support for the organization, and those members get a digital copy of the publication. 2) Includes the above costs plus the cost of printing and mailing the publications to those who need or want hardcopies. It is understood that with fewer printed copies, the cost per copy will increase and those asking for hardcopies will pay a higher rate than when the publications were printed for everyone. I won't be able to make the next TSA meeting, but hope this dual membership rate is voted on. Digital members should not have to subsidize hardcopy members, and hardcopy members should not have to do without a product that is important to them and relatively simple for the organization to produce. George -Original Message- From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:jkenn...@batcon.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:55 PM To: Charles Goldsmith; Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Digital We have already. It was decided to offer both. Libraries in particular (including the TSS) don't like digital publications. And bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] RE: Digital
George certainly makes good sense. After all, we vote on our political leaders (?) every two to four years. Fritz -Original Message- From: George Veni [mailto:gv...@warpdriveonline.com] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:18 PM To: 'TexasCavers' Subject: RE: [Texascavers] RE: Digital Many organizations now offer two membership rates: 1) Includes the cost of general newsletter production, web hosting, and other support for the organization, and those members get a digital copy of the publication. 2) Includes the above costs plus the cost of printing and mailing the publications to those who need or want hardcopies. It is understood that with fewer printed copies, the cost per copy will increase and those asking for hardcopies will pay a higher rate than when the publications were printed for everyone. I won't be able to make the next TSA meeting, but hope this dual membership rate is voted on. Digital members should not have to subsidize hardcopy members, and hardcopy members should not have to do without a product that is important to them and relatively simple for the organization to produce. George -Original Message- From: Jim Kennedy [mailto:jkenn...@batcon.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 1:55 PM To: Charles Goldsmith; Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: [Texascavers] RE: Digital We have already. It was decided to offer both. Libraries in particular (including the TSS) don't like digital publications. And bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] RE: Digital
On Dec 11, 2009, at 3:31 PM, Fritz Holt wrote: George certainly makes good sense. After all, we vote on our political leaders (?) every two to four years. Fritz All elected officials should have their services limited to two terms. One term in office and a second term in prison. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] Re: Digital
Like I stated a few months back I want both, will to pay if I have to... Bill - Original Message - From: Charles Goldsmith wo...@justfamily.org To: Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org Cc: Pete Lindsley caverp...@gmail.com; TexasCavers texascavers@texascavers.com; Stefan Creaser stefan.crea...@arm.com Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 3:00 PM Subject: [Texascavers] Re: Digital I'm ok with you wanting a high quality print Jim, and most people are. But why should the majority of the TSA membership pay for a few people that want the high quality? If the majority of the whole membership wants to continue paying, I'm ok with it, but it always seems that the people who want the hardcopy is in the minority. My opinion, we put a monetary value with it, if you want a printed hard copy, mailed to you, you get to pay extra :) That would help cover the rising costs of printing and mailing it, and would push more people to use the digital copy. I know a lot of people are against this, no one wants to spend more money, but lets be realistic for a bit and humor me. Prices are going to continue to go up on postage and printing costs. TSA is in the black right now, largely due to the few who went Digital. As overhead continues to go up, do we adjust membership fees? My vote, drop mailing copies (cept to those who want to pay a surcharge for it) and go Digital completely. This would save TSA a lot of money, save Mark's sanity, and free up a lot of TSA money for other things. You could even drop rates for TSA membership if you wanted. Charles On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 2:55 PM, Jim Kennedy jkenn...@batcon.org wrote: We have already. It was decided to offer both. Libraries in particular (including the TSS) don't like digital publications. And bibliophiles like myself and Mixon definitely prefer old-fashioned hard copy, and I don't mean cheap, single-sided inkjet copies that fade over time and bleed if they get damp. -- Jim -Original Message- From: Charles Goldsmith [mailto:wo...@justfamily.org] Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 2:51 PM To: Pete Lindsley Cc: TexasCavers; Stefan Creaser Subject: Re: [Texascavers] Please Become a Digital Online Member of the TSA and Save My Sanity - DANGER! Rant Mode Fully On! LONG You know, we can easily put this to a vote at the next meeting. - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
[Texascavers] Re: Digital Underground Survey Instrument
Does anyone have any experience/comments/criticisms for this device? It's a Digital Underground Survey Instrument http://www.digitalsurveyinstruments.com/node/16
[Texascavers] RE: Digital (cave) Photography
Scott Nicholson said: Does anyone out there have any feedback/suggestions as I make the leap into the digital photography world?? A really nice, small camera for quick point-and-shoot underground is the Pentax Optio WP and its successors the W10 and W30 http://www.pentaximaging.com/products/product_details/digital_camera--Optio_W30/reqID--9587364/subsection--optio. It won't give you the kind of quality that an SRL will, but you can't beat it for routine photos on the go. We use one for documentation on almost every trip we take, and get some remarkably good pictures. It is waterproof and has a real optical zoom. The only thing it really needs is a better and/or external flash. It costs $200 - $300. Mark Minton
