RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
Nancy, Two caving parties on which I have been have reported encountering a porcupine within the cave. They seem to prefer caves for their lodging. Fritz -Original Message- From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
A very small cave at CBSPark has a small little cave named after such that has porcupine's in it quite often. Fritz Holt fh...@townandcountryins.com wrote: Nancy, Two caving parties on which I have been have reported encountering a porcupine within the cave. They seem to prefer caves for their lodging. Fritz -Original Message- From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Even though bats do use caves as a dwelling (place of rest), it should still be considered part of their habitat because without caves many species would definitely die (and go extinct!) due to mortality from cold exposure and mortality of pups...endangered gray bats and Indiana bats are good examples. Gotta be careful with the way back bones observations. Sometimes floods carry bones deep into caves (repeated over time and a virtual mausoleum develops), sometimes tigres and other cave-dwelling carnivores bring their quarry into caves (floods push bones deeper), sometimes lost/trapped creatures (and candle-carrying teenagers) wander way back than they normally would, or human disturbance may push bats into cave passages they normally wouldn't roost in (if unsuitable, they may die during hibernation or from flood sumping). Or as others have mentioned small creatures use small passages near way back portions. Very great topic (often overlooked) to discuss and investigate. Alas, more questions than answers... -Original Message- From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2008 9:02 AM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice Lots of nice responses, thanks all. The consensus would appear to be that a great variety of mammals (and others) utilize caves to an equal extent as bats. And that all use the cave as a dwelling rather than a habitat. I'd surmise that the examples found 'way back into the cave' are accidentals and likely unsuccesful experiements based on the bones. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
Lots of nice responses, thanks all. The consensus would appear to be that a great variety of mammals (and others) utilize caves to an equal extent as bats. And that all use the cave as a dwelling rather than a habitat. I'd surmise that the examples found 'way back into the cave' are accidentals and likely unsuccesful experiements based on the bones. Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice (UNCLASSIFIED)
Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE Usage of caves by bats depends upon several factors, two of the most important (which are likely linked) are ceiling temperature/passage humidity and life cycle stage (hibernating and popping out pups). Layered upon the 2 big factors are several smaller factors like ceiling/wall architecture (domes, ledges, etc), cave length, cave depth, passage orientation, passage dimensions, cave streams, cave pools, overall cave architecture, surface topography, dominant surface winds, vegetation encroachment around entrances...it gets messy and complicated quickly! But all of these factors combine (some more than others) to help direct bats to an ideal roost site based upon temperature requirements and life cycle stage (warm moist areas for the naked pups or cool/cold areas for hibernation). Some bats cluster near entrances while some may be found several km into the passage...it all depends upon the mess mentioned above and what humans have done or are doing to the cave (messing with air flow, disturbing the bats, etc.). Bat caves are very exciting places to investigate and study, although some cavers fell they ruin a perfectly good cave. -Original Message- From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice (UNCLASSIFIED)
and jikes, I'd imagine that some bats think the same about us: oh, bat caves are very exciting places to live, but these silly humans ruin a perfectly good home/environment/planet ... Bat caves are very exciting places to investigate and study, although some cavers fell they ruin a perfectly good cave. -Original Message- From: Nancy Weaver [mailto:nan...@io.com] Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:50 PM To: Texascavers@texascavers.com Subject: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com Classification: UNCLASSIFIED Caveats: NONE - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice (UNCLASSIFIED)
Long and Short of it. Some bats live in the twilight zone area (entrances) some live very deep in the cave IE Honey Creek I'm sure folks have had bats land on them deep in the spring entrance of Honey Creek. Some bats of the same species don' live in caves at all some live in bridges,tree bark,palm frawns,barns, window frames,etc etc etc Bob Cowell/Treasurer Bexar Grotto/Land Steward Bracken Cave 5806 Cactus Sun San Antonio,Tx 78244-1260 HP 210-662-9171 Cell 210-724-9365 WP 210-655-2144
[Texascavers] bats cats and mice
someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
Nancy Weaver wrote: someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . How far do raccoons go in? -- Lyndon Tiu - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
RE: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
Nancy, When I worked at Carlsbad Caverns, we found mice and mouse scat in the lunchroom. We suspected they hitched a ride on the elevator either somewhere on the frame or in the boxes of food which were taken down in the elevator. One summer, we also found a couple of mice in one of the trashcans along the trail in the Big Room. We also found mice scat along the entrance trail. I'm guessing they dine on whatever is available. As far as other mammals go, we often found Bassariscus astutus (the ringtail or ringtail cat) scat all the way back to the bat cave. They apparently like to dine on fallen pups. We found all sorts of other things in the elevator. The elevators were sent down to the lunchroom level when the Visitor Center closed in the evening. The person who opened the Visitor Center in the morning had to take a key and bring them back to the surface. One morning I brought them up, the doors to one opened and a desert centipede was in the car--a big guy, very fast. I went to the restaurant and got a big jar and was finally able to wrangle it into the jar. I kept it in the jar on the Natural History Association (sales) counter until I could take him out and let it go. (I realize that centipedes are not mammals, but interesting story nevertheless.) Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2008 15:49:48 -0600 To: Texascavers@texascavers.com From: nan...@io.com Subject: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice someone mentioned to me a trivial pursuit question regarding what mammal lives in caves? the answer of course is bats . . . which got me to wondering if bats habitually live any further into a cave than the bears, cats etc which use caves as dens. I've personally seen evidence of mice thriving way past the light zone and a climb or two down . . . Nancy - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
Re: [Texascavers] bats cats and mice
In Borneo I observed that most species of bat which commonly inhabit the caves of Gunung Buda (Sarawak, Malaysia), including some cave-roosting fruit bats, tend to roost near the entrances. There, it is the swiftlets (birds) which travel kms into the caves. They echolocate using clicks. They nest on cave walls by building nests with their specialized sticky saliva, and sometimes moss. We also observed seriously heavily traveled small rodent trails well into the dark zone there. Their little rodent bones practically formed drifts in some areas. There are some major snake trails too. The cave racer snakes also travel well into the dark zone and hang out at constrictions in the passage to catch the swiftlets commuting in and out of the caves. It's pretty impressive. Back to mammals- British cavers exploring in nearby Mulu National Park had reported that their snacks had been chewed into by some mysterious mammal some kms underground. We set about trying to trap whatever previously-unknown troglobitic slow loris might be present with a pretty good sized rat trap. But it turned out that the porcupine we later saw scurrying away was far too big for our trap. We saw some really cute brown rats with white bellies in another cave. They were hanging out in the dark zone too, but pretty close to entrances. They seemed unafraid of us and just went about their rat business as long as they were underground and blinded by our lights. Another time I was overnighting alone just about 200' into the dark zone of a small California cave. I made fast friends with a very docile and friendly little mouse who would let me pet him. We met when he woke me up chewing my Hershey's with Almonds by my ear. I was happy to share. -Vivian - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com - Visit our website: http://texascavers.com To unsubscribe, e-mail: texascavers-unsubscr...@texascavers.com For additional commands, e-mail: texascavers-h...@texascavers.com
