Re: [Oneiric-Topic] Integrate unity-2d/Qt / install media space
On Thu, Apr 7, 2011 at 10:25, Sebastien Bacher wrote: > Le jeudi 07 avril 2011 à 10:06 +0200, Martin Pitt a écrit : > > I hear that next cycle we will probably be required to ship unity-2d, > > and with it Qt. This means we'll need yet another round of "where to > > get the space from?". > > Hi, > > We should probably discuss dropping "classic GNOME" (i.e the GNOME2 > session) from the CD then if we do that. > > Cheers, > Sebastien Bacher > Sounds like a plausible path.. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Bug #1 must be closed.
Hello Jo-Erlend, On Sun, Mar 6, 2011 at 04:20, Jo-Erlend Schinstad < joerlend.schins...@gmail.com> wrote: > Thank you for your willingness to read my thoughts. I believe they are > worthy. > > I live in the dead centrre of Oslo, Norway. I personally started > playing with GNU+Linux in my late teens, when Microsoft still had the > inertia. They no longer have it. I was forced to accept Windows as a > replacement for GEM. And I remember the day when my father installed > Windows at the cost of GEM. I was born in 1980. > > I have hated Microsoft for 23 of my 30 years. I no longer do. I think > Microsoft is beginning to understand what Google, Facebook, Twitter, > Wikipedia You know the companies I'm talking about. And Microsoft > do support them. And that is not enough for me to support Microsoft, > but it does tell me something about their willingness to change. > > I also do not believe in change for the sake of change. I believe that > is what Apple is doing at this time. It seems to me that we should > give Microsoft the benefit of the doubt and focus our own passion for > freedom at what Apple is doing. What is it they're doing, are they > really just refining free software, or are they really doing something > that will be beneficial to the WWW and the Internet? > > I believe that it is better for us to help Microsoft as a worthy > competitor. This will make people angry, but I ask you to consider the > fact that I have worked actively against any form of Microsoft > dominated Internet since I was 13 years of age. I am 30. I do not > believe in the goals of Unity, Windows 7 or OS X. I believe them to be > mistakes that lots of people have to live with. I am fine with it. > Perhaps they really are better. > > Do we care? If they make something good, then we will make something > better. We are afraid of patents because we know that they can take > ours without giving us theirs. Do not be fooled. Apple is the best > GNU/Linux operating system for the desktop. Ok, so they don't use > Linux and probably not all of GNU. What does Microsoft have to lay on > the table? Microsoft has nothing we want, except for some aging > technologies that makes the game industry feel at home. Do you > remember the name of the company that was what Microsoft is today? > Novell? Novell Netware is about to be forgotten. It is a good thing. > Both Windows 7 and Ubuntu 10.04 does a better job. We do a better job > than Microsoft on most issues. > > Let us now stop the hatred against Microsoft and start focusing on how > we will defeat Apple. We have expertise on ARM. We can provide > software on any platform we want. There is no question about that. The > only question is how do we do it? > > Microsoft is not our enemy. They've proven that. We have proven that. > Those who appose free software, are our enemies and we will defeat > them, just like we defeated Microsofts ancient ideas, related to the > extreme development that the free internet and free software has > experienced. Well. Perhaps we didn't wear them down or defeat them. > Perhaps we just edjucated them and if they were willing to listen, > then we should listen to them. > > We have the burden of Free Software on our shoulders. It really is up > to us to decide whether or not knowing your environment gives you a > better environment. We believe so. We do. > > We are the power of the Linux desktop world. We make Linux available > to people who doesn't understand what a kernel is. > > If Microsoft gives us Silverlight DRM, then we will support them as a > newborns awakening. If they give us the choice, then we will choose > Ubuntu, but we will also support Microsoft as a modern competitor in a > market that has never been before. We will help them, if they help us. > > We will stop hating them if they stop forcing us to choose between > football and computers. > > We want Microsoft to succeed, as long as they just give us the chance > to compete. They say Free Software is communist whereas they're > capitalists. . Let's see if freedom of choice is chosen by freedom of > suppression or freedom of participation. > > I am not speaking on behalf of anyone other than myself. > > Jo-Erlend > It is true, there are many people who share the sentiments you describe above. In my personal opinion, neither defeat nor competition are among the top 3 goals a software developer or designer should be concerned with. The most important thing is Experience, then perhaps as an element of Experience the factors of Utility and Usability. That's my personal opinion, and i'm happy about any argument or thesis that falsifies me here. The main reason why bug #1 exists, imo, would be the fact that we are left without choice, since maximization of profit does not count of allowing the user free choice, free will or even "Free". Maximization of profit is a very narrow thing, when "profit" means "proprietary" wealth. Property is an illusion, if it does not satisfy your thirst or hunger, if
Re: Call for Natty Feedback!
Hi Vish, On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 13:00, Vishnoo wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 12:16 +0100, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > > people who know my posts are aware that i can get lengthy at times, so > > i'll keep it relatively compact today ;) > > Thanks! ;p > you're welcome, anytime ;) > > > Thanks to everyone who has already committed reviews to this thread, i > > enjoyed reading all of them and i learnt a great deal from seeing > > other people's reviews. > > > 8 indicators need more spacing > > Contrary to that, folks think current spacing is already too much: > <https://bugs.launchpad.net/indicator-application/+bug/527267> > yeah, good point, but that's Appindicators. I really mean Networking, Power, Sound, Messaging and the ones that follow (Date/Time, Me, Session). I don't see the reason for NOT having a wingpanel up there, and spacing the indicators a bit more, to make aiming and visual distinction easier.. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for Natty Feedback!
On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 12:34, Chris Coulson wrote: > On Wed, 2011-03-02 at 12:16 +0100, frederik.nn...@gmail.com wrote: > > > > > 26 Epiphany-webkit should be default browser, since it integrates with > > Unity and neither Chromium nor Firefox do that > > Hi, > > Well, that is going to improve right after Alpha 3 (see [1]). > thanks Chris, that's COOL! 'd like to add.. there's currently no serious replacement for Places, which worked quite well in Ubuntu/GNOME. It takes me forever to get to "Downloads" or to "Documents". -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Call for Natty Feedback!
On Tue, Mar 1, 2011 at 20:58, Jason Warner wrote: > Hello! > > Natty Feature Freeze is here and A3 is upon us! Anyone following along > closely should see and feel a fairly stable and usable system, complete with > Unity and classic Gnome. > > I'd like to hear people's thoughts on Unity...and I'd like it to be pretty > unfiltered and raw. In particular, I'm interested in seeing how people feel > about: > > * The look and feel > > * Usability > > * Stability (knowing that we are entering a heavy bug fixing time!) > > * Highlights and favorite features > > * Perceived shortcomings and/or "wishlist" items > > You can reply to this email if your feedback is general/conversational or > file a bug if you are experiencing a specific issue. Filing a bug with > 'ubuntu-bug unity' command would do the trick and would get seen by the > appropriate people for specific issues. > > It will be fun to hear what everyone thinks! I look forward to seeing the > feedback. > > Cheers, > Jason > people who know my posts are aware that i can get lengthy at times, so i'll keep it relatively compact today ;) Thanks to everyone who has already committed reviews to this thread, i enjoyed reading all of them and i learnt a great deal from seeing other people's reviews. 1 launcher backlight is generally without purpose (except workspace switcher and trash) 2 workspace switcher should be on top 3 gnome-www-browser undiscoverable 4 no way to access power preferences 5 no way to access ubuntu one preferences 6 no consistent UI for preferences in general 7 Presence doesn't integrate with Empathy 8 indicators need more spacing 9 panel covers entire top edge, but middle is always blank -> wasted display space 10 home button doesn't look pressed when pressed 11 dash doesn't work 12 in the (currently broken) dash, browsing is called "find" 13 ALT+F2 is not implemented -> big no-no 14 Indicator Menus should float above content transparently (-> wingpanel) 15 there is still no distinction between "close" vs "close&quit" 16 no visual feedback when pointer hits hot areas 17 fade-in / fade out of dock is stuck when pointer touches the top-right hot-corner, but there's no visual feedback to indicate that i touched any hot area (see 16) 18 totem doesn't integrate with Sound Menu's playback controls, although it is default playback app for single audio files -> bad 19 dash should appear center stage, not top-left 20 "add an appointment" should open a tiny dialog, not Evolution Calendar, maximized 21 three seperate configuration links on the bottom of one indicator menu is just hilariously confusing (Me Menu) 22 Messaging Menu and Session Menu are inconsistent, in that they have no "Preferences" or "Settings" item on the bottom, when Networking, Power, Sound, Time/Calendar, MeMenu all do 23 dmedia should be integrated into the dash for browsing/previewing videos 24 shotwell should be integrated into the dash for browsing/previewing photos 25 some MPRIS & IDO should be integrated into the dash for browsing/previewing audio (yet, outstanding work so far by Conor) 26 Epiphany-webkit should be default browser, since it integrates with Unity and neither Chromium nor Firefox do that 27 I'd like more drag-and-drop interaction with window previews, workspaces and workspace previews 28 Unity/Mutter was better with workspaces: it showcased the open windows with its equivalent of the compiz Scale plugin I love the Scale plugin / Window Picker. If docky had that, i'd use default GNOME until Unity is stable. Since Docky doesn't have that, i'm going to continue using Unity, even though it is terribly unstable and far from finished, since this one single feature already makes it so much more usable than any Desktop Environment i have used before. Ubuntu would be better as a whole, if Presence in the Me Menu would actually control Presence in Empathy. Since that bug has not been fixed, although it is quite easy to fix (comment out a few lines of code), the MeMenu, perhaps the most frequently visited indicator menu for me, doesn't work, and Ubuntu always has a bitter note to it when i turn it on. Thanks for the opportunity to review this beautiful DE-in-the-making.. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Byobu no longer installed by default?
On Wed, Feb 16, 2011 at 11:37, Martin Pitt wrote: > Hey Corey, > > Corey Burger [2011-02-15 15:10 -0800]: > > I noticed that Byobu is no longer installed by default. Is this a > > conscious decision and is the size of byobu so big that its space is > > required by something else? > > [...] screen/byobu aren't that important to have in the default desktop > installation is there a general definition for what exactly qualifies an application to deserve the title "important"? According to your statement, a definition might be found behind the word "default desktop installation". So i guess everything that goes beyond having a working Desktop Environment is also not "important", correct? This type of definition work helps a lot with deciding what packages will eventually be removed, replaced or added to make the "default desktop installation" more redundancy-free. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Shall we hide the GUI for Hibernate in Natty?
On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 20:40, Bryce Harrington wrote: > On Mon, Jan 31, 2011 at 11:04:22AM -0800, Rick Spencer wrote: > > Natty is currently NOT showing the Hibernate option in the list of > > shutdown choices. This is currently an experiment, but I thought it > > might be worth discussing the pros and cons on these lists as well. > > > > So, thoughts, discussion, feedback, options, suggestions, rants, raves, > > etc... ? > > I used to use hibernate a lot, even though it was slow like mentioned in > the original email, it was a nice way to save state. Handy when on > airplanes. > > But I agree it's so painfully slow and unreliable to be unusable in its > present state. Hiding the option in the menu and declaring it > officially unsupported (but making it configurable and still callable > from pm-utils and so on, just no bug reports) seems like a good > approach. > yeah. like a checkbox in the Power Management Preferences: [ ] show "hibernate" option in Session Menu (BETA) right? to me, it is not even BETA, since it works on 1 out of 5 machines i test it on. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: GNOME session saving dropped in natty
On Fri, Jan 21, 2011 at 16:16, Martin Pitt wrote: > Vishnoo [2011-01-21 20:41 +0530]: > > Is there a bug filed for this, which we could follow? > > I don't think we should bother. Session saving can't ever be perfect. > You won't ever get back things like your unsaved current documents, > undo buffers, network connections (chat), etc, and those are much more > interesting than the position of your windows (not that GNOME would or > could ever get that right even). I think this has always been a > half-baked misfeature. > What's wrong with wanting the window positions memorized? > For proper session saving/restoring there is suspend and hibernate. > yes, one would want to think so, but then again this is strongly hardware dependent, and therefore unreliable. As others state here already, "Hibernate" is about the most unreliable feature to avail in Ubuntu, closely followed by "Suspend." I'd opt for the window position thingy. And i'd use an engine such as "used with" from Zeitgeist to make it happen. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Searching in open windows
Hi Ratul, On Thu, Nov 25, 2010 at 15:03, Ratul wrote: > Hi all, > I am not quite sure if this is the way to express my concern. > I have met a lot of people who complains that they have a lot of windows > open at a time and find it difficult to navigate among them. > ALT+TAB is a great way, but you need a linear search (and reading all of > them) there. One suggestion I had was to use some plugin of compiz that > wroks with "show all open windows" and then searching with auto-complete > search box. Compiz is not a solution anyway. > My query is, is there any application (light enough) like gnome-do that > does it properly? If there is not is it advisable that one should try to > make one? > Thanks, > perhaps ask the Zeitgeist guys, they just came up with an ultra-fast semantic GNOME-Do like thingy, called Synapse. Your suggestion sounds interesting, and may bear fruit.. In German we say: "Fragen kostet nichts", which means, it doesn't cost you anything, to ask! ;) -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
automatic fsck blacks out screen during boot
hello, i noticed today that the automatic (periodic) fsck blanked out my screen completely, except of course for the CLI cursor on the top left. What i would have expected to happen: * i start the computer * it loads linux and shows me either progress or results until i see the login screen and my mouse cursor What happened: * i started the computer * fsck started invisibly without notification of any kind * for about a minute i didn't know what was wrong with the boot procedure due to a blank screen * suddenly the mouse cursor and login screen appeared -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Sporadic UI halts on Meerkat Netbook - how to debug
Hi Milan, On Tue, Oct 5, 2010 at 11:25, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > There's nothing specially related to GUIs in this problem, I think > that's a bug in the kernel. everything is connected, reliability in the UI *depends* on conditional reliability in the core/kernel > So I'm not "deferring the problem to another > list", I'm just saying that there's no hope the desktop team will fix > it [...] i agree totally with you, the desktop team can't fix this alone, this is bigger than only desktop team or only kernel hackers.. > and the only option is to discuss this with kernel developers. Have > a look at the bug report I linked to, and you'll see that's the only > guarantee to avoid talking with nobody listening... > true. it's difficult to get this one across to anybody, because nobody really feels responsible. If UI response gets improved on a UI level, I/O stutters will most likely still occur, if I/O misbehaviour is fixed, UI response might still have its problems and issues.. To reserve a legit amount of "power" for what i would call UI Reliability is a joint venture for all of the desktop and its core, i don't think anybody can go this one alone, we'd just end up in the same vicious circle of performance issues again next cycle.. safe -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
Re: Sporadic UI halts on Meerkat Netbook - how to debug
Hello Milan, On Mon, Oct 4, 2010 at 21:34, Milan Bouchet-Valat wrote: > If you're ready > to answer a long series of technical questions, then you can send a mail > to the kernel development list (lkml.org). > that's perhaps one way to go about it.. Another one would be to make a suggestion. >From the knowledge of this problem's existence alone we can already deduct that the linux kernel does not reserve resources for the graphical user interface, and if it does, then the reliability of this feature is our problem. AIUI todays default user interface to the linux kernel is a GUI, the DE in our case here. If the DE itself can not rely on a minimum of CPU and memory resources to be reserved for it, how can we assume that it will ever be reliable itself? It is easy to defer this problem to another list, but it is equally clear that this problem extends over all areas related to UI, DE or the underlying architectures.. -- ubuntu-desktop mailing list ubuntu-desktop@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-desktop
