Re: I'm stopping contributing
On 06/06/2017 07:51 PM, C de-Avillez wrote: Let me be clear on this: I*know* the Reporting Bugs is a mess. I *agree* the pages have to be re-organised, cleaned up, re-written Sorry if this is a useless plug and/or wrong place but I don't follow the bug mailing list. Having that said, instead of the wiki, after it's re-written to make more sense, would be worth it to have those pages on community.u.c or help.u.c? Just a thought here. -- Svetlana Belkin A.K.A: belkinsa User Wiki page: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/belkinsa -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Odp: Re: I'm stopping contributing
As I wrote in my previous message Alberto though You shouldn't record movies, I support You with all my heart. Some developer told me once "Unity was intuitive and was tested". My answer was: give a Mate desktop to a 5year old child which can't read and tell him to start a game. No problem in Mate, mission impossible in Unity. I slowed down my contribution for Ubuntu with the 12.04 release cause I'm like a good market player who sees which company/project is worth investing. It was clear for me that Unity will not succeed. Ubuntu 11.xx was one of the first and last releases where Bluetooth used to work correctly and without problems with all devices. Someone decided to replace that working packages with new ones: bug reports for this decision are open till today and Ubuntu payed for that a few months ago with Ubuntu Touch project. Someone wanted to built convergence devices without working Bluetooth. "First things first"! I know development is needed to not finish the way Nokia did but I support with all my heart Alberto: someone make thoughtless decisions who makes system unreliable and unstable. I caused that many people stoped using Windows and started using Linux but if I had installed them Ubuntu version from 12.04 they would have come back to Windows. I do not agree with Your Greenpeace comparison but I can confirm that Ubuntu as a system for people is dead. Ubuntu is a system for playing developers who show their fantasy without respect for an end user. I thank God that there are still people like guys from Ubuntu Mate who just show respect for end users. Cheers Marcin Dnia śr., cze 7, 2017 o 1:03, Alberto Salvia Novellanapisał: Speaking about the Roman's king, I have just received this email from a familiar which I have installed Ubuntu: Cousin: > It gets worse every time, especially at start-up, it hangs and > needs to restart. Other mentions in the latests two months: Father: > It usually hangs at start-up, and mouse stops working from time to > time. Friend: > Ubuntu was no longer booting up. I needed it for my end of career > work, so you know what I did? Removed it and installed Windows 10. So it seems that all of these happens nearly all of the time: (https://askubuntu.com/questions/760934/graphics-issues-after-while-installing-ubuntu-16-04-16-10-with-nvidia-graphics) Root cause: nobody is reporting bugs and nobody is triaging them, as it's too hard to read the manuals. And people won't allow the needed change because of: (https://plus.google.com/+AlbertoSalviaNovella/posts/6fmD4E2vKfP) -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: I'm stopping contributing
On Tue, 6 Jun 2017 21:57:55 +0200 Alberto Salvia Novellawrote: > Speaking about the Roman's king, I have just received this email from > a familiar which I have installed Ubuntu: > > Cousin: > > It gets worse every time, especially at start-up, it hangs and > > needs to restart. > > > Other mentions in the latests two months: > > Father: > > It usually hangs at start-up, and mouse stops working from time to > > time. > > Friend: > > Ubuntu was no longer booting up. I needed it for my end of career > > work, so you know what I did? Removed it and installed Windows > > 10. So would you open a bug with the following description: "it gets worse every time, specially at start-up, it hangs and needs to restart" What are we supposed to do with this bug? > So it seems that all of these happens nearly all of the time: > (https://askubuntu.com/questions/760934/graphics-issues-after-while-installing-ubuntu-16-04-16-10-with-nvidia-graphics) Ah. So these are all symptoms of a nVidia driver issue? I agree this is a bug. The problem -- specifically for nVidia -- is: who fixes it? It is closed source, so we cannot; or it depends (as what happened on 16.04 release) on a future kernel support, at the time to be coded, tested, and released (perhaps some of us would be able to code it in; I am not, though. I also do not know if this has been solved, I left nVida a long time ago because I was tired of their crappy coding and continuous bugs. I am pretty sure there are already many nVidia bugs recorded in LP, still open. I wonder what having more of them (supposing all new bugs are clearly set against nVidia, not against Ubuntu, or other wrong package) would help. > Root cause: nobody is reporting bugs and nobody is triaging them, as > it's too hard to read the manuals. Wrong root cause, but let's move on. So, by all means, let's re-write the Reporting Bugs wiki and related pages. But keep in mind my point, throughout this series of email threads: it does NOT help triagers and maintainers to have a LOT of badly-reported bugs. We need *good quality* bugs. [A good start on re-writing, perhaps, would be adding a list of high-impact bugs, that people can look at and add a "me too" if their bug fits). For whatever definition of "high-impact".] But what you proposed is not a good re-write, as far as I can see it. You proposed to simplify to such a point the reporting bugs could as well be written as "go to LP and write whatever you want". There. One single line (if you replace "LP" by the correct link). Which is BAD bug reporting, but so what? > And people won't allow the needed > change because of: > > (https://plus.google.com/+AlbertoSalviaNovella/posts/6fmD4E2vKfP) [Now I am completely lost. What does political correctness have to do with good reporting of bugs? Anyway.] For the record, "people won't allow the needed change" is wrong in a few points: * you have the power to re-write the wiki. Other people *also* have the power to undo what they perceive as wrong. The same right you have others have. If this escalates, some with more power will take whatever actions deemed necessary to stop the write/re-write cycle. * or, perhaps, you want those that did not agree with you *NOT* to be able to do so? * nobody prohibited you on working on the re-write. Many did not agree with it, I grant. But you were NOT, by a long shot, prohibited from giving a new view. * what once happened was you changing a wiki page *without* a proposal, and doing it in a way that some that were working with it disagreed. This was, indeed, *your* fault: you do not, unilaterally, change something that is used by a lot of people. You *propose* your changes, and reach a consensus. * but you do not seem to want a consensus. You want *your* way, or the highway. This is not how a community, be it a democracy or meritocracy, works. This is, on the other hand, how dictatorships work. So what you have experienced is /not/ people not allowing the "needed change", it was people -- community members just like you -- disagreeing with your proposed changes. Let me be clear on this: I *know* the Reporting Bugs is a mess. I *agree* the pages have to be re-organised, cleaned up, re-written. I *disagree* with your approach, for reasons already discussed ad nauseam. But this is *my* view. OK, I agree it is biased by my years of technical support. But it is still my view. Personal. I do not speak, formally, for the project -- I have no authority to do so. But I *do* speak in the community based on my personal interest in bugs and triaging. After all, I am a member of this community -- which, by the way, would be as true if I were not to be an official Ubuntu member(as you also are). Cheers, ..C.. pgpwwriYZ4rpn.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at:
Re: I'm stopping contributing
Speaking about the Roman's king, I have just received this email from a familiar which I have installed Ubuntu: Cousin: > It gets worse every time, especially at start-up, it hangs and > needs to restart. Other mentions in the latests two months: Father: > It usually hangs at start-up, and mouse stops working from time to > time. Friend: > Ubuntu was no longer booting up. I needed it for my end of career > work, so you know what I did? Removed it and installed Windows 10. So it seems that all of these happens nearly all of the time: (https://askubuntu.com/questions/760934/graphics-issues-after-while-installing-ubuntu-16-04-16-10-with-nvidia-graphics) Root cause: nobody is reporting bugs and nobody is triaging them, as it's too hard to read the manuals. And people won't allow the needed change because of: (https://plus.google.com/+AlbertoSalviaNovella/posts/6fmD4E2vKfP) -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality
Re: I'm stopping contributing
Alberto, I have been following you closely for the past few years and have always admired you for the fact that you have tried to keep the bug control scene alive and have actively proposed new ideas. Thank your for contributing and helping to make Ubuntu better. On Sun, Jun 4, 2017 at 8:16 AM, Alberto Salvia Novellawrote: > https://youtu.be/c7Vzg0svBXI > > > -- > Ubuntu-quality mailing list > Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com > Modify settings or unsubscribe at: > https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality > -- Ubuntu-quality mailing list Ubuntu-quality@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-quality