Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Mon, February 25, 2013 1:31 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: Actually there is an extension for inkscape for CMYK support, but that's besides the point. Inkscape is a vector program and is different from Krita which works with raster graphics (which is what one would use to create so called Digital Art). For those interested, I have added Krita to the seeds tonight. It will also be part of the graphics meta (ubuntustudio-graphics). -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
Krita handle CMYK, and the is missing in Inkscape ! Antoine THOMAS Tél: 0663137906 2013/2/25 Ho Wan Chan smartbo...@gmail.com Len, even the almighty Calligra doesn't kill me to package GIMP+GPS won't be a big problem to me. I want to practice my packaging skills:-P smartboyhw On 2013-2-25 上午8:10, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
Actually there is an extension for inkscape for CMYK support, but that's besides the point. Inkscape is a vector program and is different from Krita which works with raster graphics (which is what one would use to create so called Digital Art). On 02/25/2013 02:53 PM, ttoine wrote: Krita handle CMYK, and the is missing in Inkscape ! Antoine THOMAS Tél: 0663137906 2013/2/25 Ho Wan Chan smartbo...@gmail.com mailto:smartbo...@gmail.com Len, even the almighty Calligra doesn't kill me to package GIMP+GPS won't be a big problem to me. I want to practice my packaging skills:-P smartboyhw On 2013-2-25 ??8:10, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net mailto:l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com mailto:Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Graphics apps, kde stuff
This morning, a user asked about krita and was given the normal reply about us only including enough apps to cover workflows etc. No problem. I know we have not included KDE apps in the past because of the libs it pulls in. However, we have added kdenlive and so we now have the kde libs anyway. (2mb seems less of a problem on a 2G iso than on a 700M iso) I would suggest we maybe need to reassess our workflows with regard to best apps now that we can easily include kde apps. For example, is krita better than what we have now? A question for the artists in our midst. Speaking of kde programs, kdenlive adds k3b. I have personally had problems with k3b in that it has borked two dvds now (out of two). brasero works fine for me. I have heard other people have the same kind of problem. IS there anyone who uses k3b here that can confirm there is a problem? (or that it works fine?) I can't afford to waste DVDs testing it. I have been told that the problem is k3b works well with cdrecord but not with wodem (which we have). Wodem is one of those we (debian I would guess) don't like the licence on cdrecord so we are forking it so we can have GPL things, but once it is forked it doesn't get the love and care of the original author :P (yes who is cantankerous and hard to get along with, must be an artist, So what?) Maybe we have a reason to put cdrecord into the ubuntu repos over wodim? I don't think the licence is that bad from what I have heard. (I am not a lawyer :) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Sun, February 24, 2013 8:02 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: On 02/24/2013 09:23 PM, Len Ovens wrote: This morning, a user asked about krita and was given the normal reply about us only including enough apps to cover workflows etc. No problem. I know we have not included KDE apps in the past because of the libs it pulls in. However, we have added kdenlive and so we now have the kde libs anyway. (2mb seems less of a problem on a 2G iso than on a 700M iso) I would suggest we maybe need to reassess our workflows with regard to best apps now that we can easily include kde apps. For example, is krita better than what we have now? A question for the artists in our midst. I presume the existing setup for Digital art is GIMP + GPS (2.8 comes with half the GPS brushes anyways). While that is a good setup, it does have a steeper learning curve, compared to Krita at least. That is understandable since GIMP was primarily intended as an image editing software ( and does that pretty well), whereas Krita is specifically a program made for digital art. With the the recent 2.6 release (PSD support anyone?) Krita is definitely a very high quality program to include in a FLOSS workflow for art, especially for artists who are trying to migrate from the Windows+Photoshop arena. GPS equals Gimp Paint Studio? We don't have it. The guy who was interested in packaging it seems to have vanished. I did suggest we would like to include it in US by default, but I think he is really only interested in doing that for an LTS release as it is a lot less work for him. I think Mypaint or inkscape are the only painting programs we have. There are some 3D things in here like blender and synfig. I am not a graphic artist really so I don't know what is good or not. However it sounds like this may be an area we have not covered at all. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
Now hmm I am the packager of Calligra (which includes Krita) for it's last two versions (2.6.0 2.6.1) since I'm now a Kubuntu packager. I thought that Krita is really a great app. However we aren't using KDE anymore. Even though we have KDE libs in the ISOs, I disagree that we should put it in. It's sort of not integrated. However since I'm not a member of the Ubuntu Studio Development Team, I shall not have any problems with it being added to the ISOs. As for GIMP Paint Studio, I can absolutely volunteer to package it (since I now have more experience). However I need to find a sponsor to get it in the Ubuntu archive, otherwise we can't add it in into the ISOs. smartboyhw (Howard Chan) On 2013-2-25 上午12:28, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: On Sun, February 24, 2013 8:02 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: On 02/24/2013 09:23 PM, Len Ovens wrote: This morning, a user asked about krita and was given the normal reply about us only including enough apps to cover workflows etc. No problem. I know we have not included KDE apps in the past because of the libs it pulls in. However, we have added kdenlive and so we now have the kde libs anyway. (2mb seems less of a problem on a 2G iso than on a 700M iso) I would suggest we maybe need to reassess our workflows with regard to best apps now that we can easily include kde apps. For example, is krita better than what we have now? A question for the artists in our midst. I presume the existing setup for Digital art is GIMP + GPS (2.8 comes with half the GPS brushes anyways). While that is a good setup, it does have a steeper learning curve, compared to Krita at least. That is understandable since GIMP was primarily intended as an image editing software ( and does that pretty well), whereas Krita is specifically a program made for digital art. With the the recent 2.6 release (PSD support anyone?) Krita is definitely a very high quality program to include in a FLOSS workflow for art, especially for artists who are trying to migrate from the Windows+Photoshop arena. GPS equals Gimp Paint Studio? We don't have it. The guy who was interested in packaging it seems to have vanished. I did suggest we would like to include it in US by default, but I think he is really only interested in doing that for an LTS release as it is a lot less work for him. I think Mypaint or inkscape are the only painting programs we have. There are some 3D things in here like blender and synfig. I am not a graphic artist really so I don't know what is good or not. However it sounds like this may be an area we have not covered at all. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Sun, February 24, 2013 8:52 am, Ho Wan Chan wrote: Now hmm I am the packager of Calligra (which includes Krita) for it's last two versions (2.6.0 2.6.1) since I'm now a Kubuntu packager. I thought that Krita is really a great app. However we aren't using KDE anymore. Even though we have KDE libs in the ISOs, I disagree that we should put it in. It's sort of not integrated. However since I'm not a member of the Ubuntu Studio Development Team, I shall not have any problems with it being added to the ISOs. My opinion is that integration is over rated :) Adding krita is 38Mb on the ISO or so. I am downloading it now to try. I find mypaint hard to use, but that is mostly because there is not an artist using the mouse :P Generally I find xpaint easier to use because it helps me do straight lines ;) What would probably be more useful to me is a simple drafting program. Anyway, I find krita easier to use than mypaint. It also looks a lot more complete. When run from a terminal, it does seem to output quite a bit. As for GIMP Paint Studio, I can absolutely volunteer to package it (since I now have more experience). However I need to find a sponsor to get it in the Ubuntu archive, otherwise we can't add it in into the ISOs. Please be aware that this would be an ongoing project as the GPS package has to be repackaged every time there is a new GIMP package as it has to be compiled against it. There are some other quirks as well to packaging that require some scripting to be run during install. On the whole it would be better to package a GIMP+GPS package. (which BTW would replace the standard gimp binaries if they happened to be installed) shnatsel is the last person who has done this work and would be able to tell you what needed doing. Even downloading his package (way out of date BTW) and examining the install scripts would be helpful. His PPA (if it is still around) is: ppa:shnatsel/gimp-paint-studio -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
I have kdenlive installed in all of my systems, but not k3b. I'm using the Sunab PPA versons but did not always, and I don't see k3b listed as a dependancy or even as a recoomendation. I do see DVDauthor as a recommends, it does not depend on k3b either. I checked the Ubuntu packages website, the standard version of kdenlive and Kdenlive-data do not include k3b in their dependancies or recommends either. I do not have recommendations treated as dependancies in Synaptic, but haven't found anything that would pull in K3b in Kdenlive in today's examination for it. - I am using a 64 bit system always following the alpha release, now Raring, using Cinnamon as the DE on the big video editing systems and a personal fork of the old Hardy Heron era US themes and icons(my versions support GTK3). Kdenlive,Audacity. and GIMP are the main media handling programs. Avidemux and Blender are also installed and used for particular tasks. I've had good luck with dvdstyler for making DVDs that play in ordinary DVD players, but if I'm just sending files somewhere they go out as full HD 1080p files on data DVDs. Maybe the k3b problem has been a matter of not checking to ensure the files are actually usable by a DVD player, or has it been something else? To make any kind of video DVD that plays on a DVD player hooked to a TV, all the video files need to be in the exact format the DVD player will be looking for. That means interlaced 720x 480 video in mpeg-2 codec in VOB containers. Full specs below: f=dvd vcodec=mpeg2video acodec=ac3 s=720x480 vb=6000k maxrate=9000k minrate=0 bufsize=1835008 packetsize=2048 muxrate=1008 ab=192k ar=48000 g=18 me_range=63 trellis=1 mlt_profile=dv_ntsc pass=%passes If you burn a DVD using a program that does not check to see that the video files can in fact be played by an old-school DVD player, and it lets you burn the disc, the result is a disc containing nonstandard VOB files that a computer can play but a DVD player cannot. The only thing the burning program can do about this is make sure that standard NTSC (or PAL for those players) files are being used, and either error out or display a warning if a nonstandard file is detected. There is also a long-standing bug in Brasero, could be shared by other frontends like k3b, involving attempts to burn directly to disk without first making an image of the filesystem. On my systems, this NEVER works, and always makes a totally unreadable disk. You must first make in image when using Brasero, then burn this image to disk. This affects all types of disks: audio, data, presumably DVD, and so on. I have forgotten some of the details, but I'm pretty sure I made images first when usng DVDstyler too. snip Speaking of kde programs, kdenlive adds k3b. I have personally had problems with k3b in that it has borked two dvds now (out of two). brasero works fine for me. I have heard other people have the same kind of problem. IS there anyone who uses k3b here that can confirm there is a problem? (or that it works fine?) I can't afford to waste DVDs testing it. I have been told that the problem is k3b works well with cdrecord but not with wodem (which we have). Wodem is one of those we (debian I would guess) don't like the licence on cdrecord so we are forking it so we can have GPL things, but once it is forked it doesn't get the love and care of the original author :P (yes who is cantankerous and hard to get along with, must be an artist, So what?) Maybe we have a reason to put cdrecord into the ubuntu repos over wodim? I don't think the licence is that bad from what I have heard. (I am not a lawyer :) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Sun, February 24, 2013 11:25 am, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: I have kdenlive installed in all of my systems, but not k3b. I'm using the Sunab PPA versons but did not always, and I don't see k3b listed as a dependancy or even as a recoomendation. I do see DVDauthor as a recommends, it does not depend on k3b either. I checked the Ubuntu packages website, the standard version of kdenlive and Kdenlive-data do not include k3b in their dependancies or recommends either. k3b lists that is a dependency of: kmediafactory dvd95 uck quodlibet-plugins kubuntu-full kubuntu-desktop k3b-i18n k3b-dbg ezgo-multimedia aptoncd We don't ship any of these. In fact none of them are listed as installed on my 13.04 system. I will have to look but I am pretty sure K3B is not in our seeds either. It did show up at the same time as I added kdenlive though. Weird. I've had good luck with dvdstyler for making DVDs that play in ordinary DVD players, but if I'm just sending files somewhere they go out as full HD 1080p files on data DVDs. I mostly make data disks. Maybe the k3b problem has been a matter of not checking to ensure the files are actually usable by a DVD player, or has it been something else? After burning the DVD, the computer that burned it wouldn't even recognize it. I did the second one just in case I had not made sure the disk was fixed, but had the same problem. So I used Brasero which worked fine. There is also a long-standing bug in Brasero, could be shared by other frontends like k3b, involving attempts to burn directly to disk without first making an image of the filesystem. That is a possibility... that could just as easily be a wodem bug. I haven't tried cdrecord, but word is it just works. I certainly never had a problem with cdrecord before wodem showed up either. Replacing a working program with one that doesn't is just dumb. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Sun, February 24, 2013 11:57 am, Benjamin Turner wrote: On 02/24/2013 09:44 AM, Len Ovens wrote: My opinion is that integration is over rated :) Adding krita is 38Mb on the ISO or so. I am downloading it now to try. I find mypaint hard to use, but that is mostly because there is not an artist using the mouse :P I agree with you about integration, mostly. One major thing to be said about the 'kde' integration is the ease of setting up custom keybindings for wacom tablets (what digital artist uses a mouse anymore?! ;) ). That was sort of my point. I am not an artist. So I do use a mouse, cause I don't have a tablet :) I would like to have one though, because I think it would make a great midi controller surface. Print out a mixer or other controller (or even an organ like keyboard, or drawbars just to name a few) and touch the four corners to set up the program and instant midi controller. I know that XFCE has some basic setup for tablets, and the pressure sensitivity is still used in Mypaint etc while under xfce, but being able to specifically configure the tablet for KDE apps in general is the real plus of KDE+Krita. Good to know. There are a few areas I would like to see fixed in xfce. Dual monitors is another. It would be great to know how kde does it. One day when I feel rich I will have to buy a tablet to play with. I wonder if just the kde settings app(let) is usable in xfce? I wonder if it uses a setup file, a driver or environment variables. (or just talks to x about it) I would say that I tend to use Mypaint for quick sketches in xfce, but if I'm going to do some real intensive painting sessions, I boot up a Kubuntu session with my specific tablet settings. The main drawback for me is that I always feel like there is A LOT of overhead using KDE just to get this functionality, but I don't have the time, or really the technical know-how to implement this type of thing in xfce. Yes KDE is a bit of a resource hog. I would like to slim down xfce even. I would like to get rid of anything that puts icons on the desktop, like the instance of thunar that runs at session start. This alone is reason enough to add it to US, but perhaps some effort upstream to make XFCE's tablet configuration more robust would be the real winner for every piece of digital painting software in US! That makes +3 and -1 so far. Scott? I know you do more graphics than I do. Any other artists? -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
No icons on the desktop is a deal-breaker for a lot of people. GNOME tried to do that, and was quickly forced to bring back that option. An empty default desktop is one thing, but not being able to use it would make what I do much more difficult. I have heard things like fat pig used to describe KDE, but even ultralight environments can be set up to run the file manager and have icons on the desktop. One of the lightest there is, although development is minimal these days, is Icewm. By default it is just a taskbar, tray, and window manager, but you can put anything you want in the startup scripts. I use it in my netbook with gnome-settings-daemon, nemo, and nm-applet to make a very light but fully usable desktop. Main advantage is rapid responsiveness-and the ability to play 720p video because almost all of that tiny processor is available. Main disadvantage is that all menu and taskbar launcher editing must be done by hand editing text files. A few GUI applications to edit the menus and startup scripts, and Icewm could be the basis of an ultralight desktop used for almost any purpose. No more being stuck with a particular file manager or an integration issue-it doesn't even depend on GTK. Very good as the basis of a custom nonaccelerated DE. snip Yes KDE is a bit of a resource hog. I would like to slim down xfce even. I would like to get rid of anything that puts icons on the desktop, like the instance of thunar that runs at session start. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
On Sun, February 24, 2013 2:17 pm, lukefro...@hushmail.com wrote: No icons on the desktop is a deal-breaker for a lot of people. GNOME tried to do that, and was quickly forced to bring back that option. An empty default desktop is one thing, but not being able to use it would make what I do much more difficult. I can accept your judgment and experience on that even if I don't agree :) I personally find desktop icons less than useful as they tend to be hidden by whatever app I happen to be using. But that is just my personal experience. There was a time I thought of them as must haves, or at least nice to have. I have heard things like fat pig used to describe KDE, but even ultralight environments can be set up to run the file manager and have icons on the desktop. One of the lightest there is, although development is minimal these days, is Icewm. By default it is just a taskbar, tray, and window manager, but you can put anything you want in the startup scripts. DBUS seems to be one of those things we need to have. Not hard to add though, I have managed to have a working dbus on just VTs with no X session running. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps, kde stuff
Len, even the almighty Calligra doesn't kill me to package GIMP+GPS won't be a big problem to me. I want to practice my packaging skills:-P smartboyhw On 2013-2-25 上午8:10, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Wed, July 25, 2012 4:06 pm, Shubham Mishra wrote: On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Scott Lavender wrote, one thing i wouldn't want to do is make a install image that was 4GB for everyone to download. therefore, i am concerned about incurring tonnes of new libraries for a particular application. also, i would be cautious about trying to include applications for _every_ possible creative use for content creation. I completely understand your situation (although Krita isn't just yet another graphics app). Would it be possible to implement what Len said about not actually including the application in shipped list, but having links to recommended programs that the user can view and download if he wants to? It is in the works. It is actually quite trivial. I have done office, dtp, effects, midi, mixers, and synths so far. I can include things that are not on the ubuntu repos and if the user adds the PPA that goes with them they will work after that. For example, I have included non-mixer in the mixers, but it doesn't show up right now. However if the user adds the kxstudio ppa, it will. Please send me a list of applications it might be useful to add this way. (I already will add kritta) I need the exact name of the package. Anyone else can send package names too please. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Thu, July 26, 2012 7:20 am, Len Ovens wrote: effects, midi, mixers, and synths so far. I can include things that are not on the ubuntu repos and if the user adds the PPA that goes with them they will work after that. For example, I have included non-mixer in the mixers, but it doesn't show up right now. However if the user adds the kxstudio ppa, it will. What I should have added... should we add a small gui that adds these PPAs? Something that explains the the benefits and risks and then has buttons to add PPAs individually with perhaps a list of apps available there. As with all installers this would have to be sudo using pkexec or something similar. (I happen to know that pk comes with ubuntu already) I would do this with tk/tcl (which we include already) but others might use the python equiv. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 10:37 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 7:59 PM, Len Ovens wrote I want to add a menu item that opens software-center with libreoffice, abiword and gnumeric so that if the user wants it they don't have to search. Hmm.. Right. And then that could be done for the other sections as well, like the list of recommended apps that you were talking about (which can also include Krita under graphics, thereby removing the need to include KDE libs beforehand). That is the idea. I have just looked through our meta files.. and they are all full of depends rather than recommends :P Like why should our whole audio install depend on meterbridge? I would include krita for sure in that item because there has already been at least one user ask for it. This does mean a bit more testing... I will have to try installing some of these extra packages to make sure they run nice with whatever else we have. We will also have to make sure they show up in the right submenu. The vision of our leader is to include enough to get any job done without including every known software in the repo. We also want the user to be able at system install to just install the workflow/area they are interested in. For that possibility the meta that goes with area should be listed so that someone who wants to add a meta later can do so easily. It is hard thinking of all the possibilities to try to cover. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel one thing i wouldn't want to do is make a install image that was 4GB for everyone to download. therefore, i am concerned about incurring tonnes of new libraries for a particular application. also, i would be cautious about trying to include applications for _every_ possible creative use for content creation. if gimp paint studio is in process into the repos, i would be happy to wait a cycle to include it rather than make a reactionary decision and include krita with the additional dependencies. likewise, i hope our work flows are well though out and provide enough competent functionality for the majority of users. i feel it would be disastrous if we felt compelled to include every possible application solution to a need, not only for those maintaining ubuntu studio but also (and especially) for the users as i believe it would confuse many of them. as to the OP: alchemy is an amazing application and i have watched numerous videos for it, including a renowned contemporary graphics designer who made something rather incredible withing ten minutes using alchemy. unfortunately, alchemy appeared to have zero development for years and it is not in the repos. this doesn't mean we can't work up a supported work flow for it, which would need to include instructions or a link for installation. i already mentioned that i would rather wait a reasonable period for gimp paint studio rather than rashly include krita. however, i do very much appreciate the input and i think ubuntu studio benefits when we get user feedback like this. oh, and len, i agree with not making ubuntustudio-audio depend on meterbridge. that does seem a little silly. scottl -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Wed, Jul 25, 2012 at 6:25 PM, Scott Lavender wrote, one thing i wouldn't want to do is make a install image that was 4GB for everyone to download. therefore, i am concerned about incurring tonnes of new libraries for a particular application. also, i would be cautious about trying to include applications for _every_ possible creative use for content creation. I completely understand your situation (although Krita isn't just yet another graphics app). Would it be possible to implement what Len said about not actually including the application in shipped list, but having links to recommended programs that the user can view and download if he wants to? On 7/25/12, Scott Lavender scottalaven...@gmail.com wrote: On Sun, Jul 22, 2012 at 4:17 PM, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 10:37 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 7:59 PM, Len Ovens wrote I want to add a menu item that opens software-center with libreoffice, abiword and gnumeric so that if the user wants it they don't have to search. Hmm.. Right. And then that could be done for the other sections as well, like the list of recommended apps that you were talking about (which can also include Krita under graphics, thereby removing the need to include KDE libs beforehand). That is the idea. I have just looked through our meta files.. and they are all full of depends rather than recommends :P Like why should our whole audio install depend on meterbridge? I would include krita for sure in that item because there has already been at least one user ask for it. This does mean a bit more testing... I will have to try installing some of these extra packages to make sure they run nice with whatever else we have. We will also have to make sure they show up in the right submenu. The vision of our leader is to include enough to get any job done without including every known software in the repo. We also want the user to be able at system install to just install the workflow/area they are interested in. For that possibility the meta that goes with area should be listed so that someone who wants to add a meta later can do so easily. It is hard thinking of all the possibilities to try to cover. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel one thing i wouldn't want to do is make a install image that was 4GB for everyone to download. therefore, i am concerned about incurring tonnes of new libraries for a particular application. also, i would be cautious about trying to include applications for _every_ possible creative use for content creation. if gimp paint studio is in process into the repos, i would be happy to wait a cycle to include it rather than make a reactionary decision and include krita with the additional dependencies. likewise, i hope our work flows are well though out and provide enough competent functionality for the majority of users. i feel it would be disastrous if we felt compelled to include every possible application solution to a need, not only for those maintaining ubuntu studio but also (and especially) for the users as i believe it would confuse many of them. as to the OP: alchemy is an amazing application and i have watched numerous videos for it, including a renowned contemporary graphics designer who made something rather incredible withing ten minutes using alchemy. unfortunately, alchemy appeared to have zero development for years and it is not in the repos. this doesn't mean we can't work up a supported work flow for it, which would need to include instructions or a link for installation. i already mentioned that i would rather wait a reasonable period for gimp paint studio rather than rashly include krita. however, i do very much appreciate the input and i think ubuntu studio benefits when we get user feedback like this. oh, and len, i agree with not making ubuntustudio-audio depend on meterbridge. that does seem a little silly. scottl -- HAVE A GOOD DAY. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Sat, July 21, 2012 10:28 am, óÅÒÇÅÊ äÁ×ÙÄÏ× wrote: Krita got really weird recently. Could you please elaborate? On Sun, July 22, 2012 7:59 PM, Len Ovens wrote I want to add a menu item that opens software-center with libreoffice, abiword and gnumeric so that if the user wants it they don't have to search. Hmm.. Right. And then that could be done for the other sections as well, like the list of recommended apps that you were talking about (which can also include Krita under graphics, thereby removing the need to include KDE libs beforehand). On 7/22/12, Len Ovens l...@ovenwerks.net wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 6:52 am, óÅÒÇÅÊ äÁ×ÙÄÏ× wrote: If it makes it to Debian we just request sync pretty much... However that is not a decision I can make. I would guess 13.04 for an eta as people seem to have more time in the winter months. AFAIK Debian is frozen and does not accept new uploads to testing which Ubuntu auto-syncs. So uploading it upstream is not an option at the moment. Right, ok, I don't know how we would get it into ubuntu repos (micahg might know). There are some ways of installing things that are not on the live session at the end of install... and I am working on an install after the fact setup too. For example, our office section comes empty except gedit and the pdf reader. I want to add a menu item that opens software-center with libreoffice, abiword and gnumeric so that if the user wants it they don't have to search. Just opening software center and searching for office makes things a pain to find. If I include the packages we ship, they can be removed as well. According to the man page I can add an apt-url as well. I can't really test it on this system though because your repo is already listed. So gimp-paint-studio already shows if I list it. There are some other apps we would like to be able to add like linux sampler for example that will never be on the ubuntu repos because of licensing issues. (free but not GPL) A general question for everyone: Is there anything in ubuntu policy that prevents us from adding extra PPAs to apt at install time? -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel -- HAVE A GOOD DAY. -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
On Sun, July 22, 2012 10:37 am, Shubham Mishra wrote: On Sun, July 22, 2012 7:59 PM, Len Ovens wrote I want to add a menu item that opens software-center with libreoffice, abiword and gnumeric so that if the user wants it they don't have to search. Hmm.. Right. And then that could be done for the other sections as well, like the list of recommended apps that you were talking about (which can also include Krita under graphics, thereby removing the need to include KDE libs beforehand). That is the idea. I have just looked through our meta files.. and they are all full of depends rather than recommends :P Like why should our whole audio install depend on meterbridge? I would include krita for sure in that item because there has already been at least one user ask for it. This does mean a bit more testing... I will have to try installing some of these extra packages to make sure they run nice with whatever else we have. We will also have to make sure they show up in the right submenu. The vision of our leader is to include enough to get any job done without including every known software in the repo. We also want the user to be able at system install to just install the workflow/area they are interested in. For that possibility the meta that goes with area should be listed so that someone who wants to add a meta later can do so easily. It is hard thinking of all the possibilities to try to cover. -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Graphics apps
Here is the start of a list for requested graphics apps, They can be either to be shipped or supported. Here is a quote from one of our users: -8-- For me a FOSS 2d artist workflow would be laying out ideas in Alchemy (http://al.chemy.org/), then sketching and inking in Mypaint, and finish off with painting and touch ups in Krita. -8-- That would be: Alchemy Mypaint (we ship already) Krita (uses KDE libs, but as Scott wanted to try kdenlive anyway) Feel free to post comments on these and add to the list. Please comment on what part of the workflow a suggested application would cover too. If we keep the whole list in each email we will always have an updated list. Note: Supported = stuff not installed by default but included in a submenu software center selector. (feel free to change this definition.. it's my best way of saying it) -- Len Ovens www.OvenWerks.net -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
Re: Graphics apps
Krita got really weird recently. GIMP with GIMP Paint Studio is much better for post-processing MyPaint drawings, that's what was used e.g. for Sintel production. In addition, Krita pulls an unholy mess of KDE libs, including KOffice libraries. GIMP Paint Studio was updated for GIMP 2.8 and it should be much easier to package now (no more complicated postinst hacks for sneaking in tool presets, w00t!). I can do the packaging if needed (well, I'm too lazy to do it just for the hell of it, but I can do that for the sake of shipping it in a distro by default). I have no idea about submission processes to Debian or Ubuntu repos, though. -- Sergey Shnatsel Davidoff -- Ubuntu-Studio-devel mailing list Ubuntu-Studio-devel@lists.ubuntu.com Modify settings or unsubscribe at: https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-studio-devel
