[ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
I have just tried kubuntu 8.10 Live CD for the first time and I am deeply troubled by what I find. I have had difficulty trying to run it, and when I have found a machine and a way to run it, I find I am then totally confused. This is all bad news for advocacy activities - I am an energetic advocate and have a monthly place in my local computer fair and give talks to clubs etc also. I have found that KDE (kubuntu) has been very useful because for some windows escapees it is easier to relate to than gnome. I also use kubuntu for my elderly friends because it has a more feature rich experience and this is useful - including for ex windows users. I should perhaps mention that I have both gnome and kde installed on all of my own machines. I have tried kubuntu 8.10 live cd in four machines, 3 desktops and a laptop, first as normal then as Safe Graphics mode. The laptop gave no display at all. On all of the desktop PCs normal graphics did not work at all. Safe Graphics mode was required but on one PC the low resolution was unusable as an initial experience. With another of the PCs the display would not start - I had to use ctrl alt backspace to restart the xserver, then it displayed. The final PC worked. Unfortunately I then found that trying to use this (kde4.1?) environment left me totally confused. I am not saying that personally I can not or will not find out how to use it, I am saying that as a newcomer to the environment, and most particularly as a possible newcomer from windows to linux, it would be a non starter. From the point of view of a total newcomer to linux (Kubuntu that is) - this experience would be out of the question. It would certainly not endear an unsuspecting newcomer to the kubuntu experience. I regret I must now change my advocacy strategy and simply stop offering kubuntu! At least until both - it works in typical PCs - and also something is offered that a new user can relate to! This is a blow because kubuntu has been a most useful weapon in my armoury to attract windows escapees. For me personally, I am sure that I can discover, ask, experiment, and enjoy what is offered as the future unfolds, but I will continue to use kde3 for a long time yet, I suspect, to get my work done. Also, this message is the last one in which I will use a sig which advertises kubuntu because - particularly in the non computer related forums I use - I will not want to encourage new users into what is currently a difficult experience. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
2008/11/8 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have just tried kubuntu 8.10 Live CD for the first time and I am deeply troubled by what I find. I just booted Kubuntu 8.10 on my Dell XPS laptop and it seemed quite nice. I'm no fan of KDE but I can see how it might appeal to someone looking at XP or Vista alternatives. Everything seemed to work on my hardware and the screen resolution was correctly set. I only had it up and running for half an hour to poke about. I keep threatening to switch to KDE for at least one whole development cycle of Ubuntu - so that's 6 months at least. I'd like to try it out and see if it could work for me as a standard desktop OS. It would also give me the opportunity to be able to support Kubuntu users - which at the moment I can't do because I have very little clue about KDE. Sorry to hear you are having problems with Kubuntu Alan, and I hope you can take time out to diagnose the issues and perhaps file bugs against the relevant packages, or ask specific questions here so we can help you get the systems up and running. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
On 08/11/2008, Bruce Beardall [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? Hi Bruce, I think you bring up a very good point, that it's all too easy to get sucked into the release cycles for distros. When advocating Linux I think it's important to consider the audience. Introducing a friend who enjoys discovering new things and is keen to play around and learn, would be very different (imo) to introducing someone who just wants to use their computer for checking their email once a week. For the latter, sticking to the LTS releases would certainly be sensible. Alan's also made me think more about KDE, different people have different preferences and different ways of learning. I tend to prefer gnome, so am more inclined to introduce people to gnome, but I think giving them the opportunity to choose is important. I'm sorry that Alan has had problems with Kubuntu. In defense of Kubuntu, I've also had problems with the latest Ubuntu and I think some of the problems he's experienced could also affect Ubuntu too. Oddly enough though I'm quite keen to try out KDE again, to see how I feel with it's latest changes. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? It would have been interesting to hear other people's views. Regards Bruce (this subject would have been a good topic for last night's recording of the podcast - maybe the next one?) On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 11:03 AM, alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have just tried kubuntu 8.10 Live CD for the first time and I am deeply troubled by what I find. I have had difficulty trying to run it, and when I have found a machine and a way to run it, I find I am then totally confused. This is all bad news for advocacy activities - I am an energetic advocate and have a monthly place in my local computer fair and give talks to clubs etc also. I have found that KDE (kubuntu) has been very useful because for some windows escapees it is easier to relate to than gnome. I also use kubuntu for my elderly friends because it has a more feature rich experience and this is useful - including for ex windows users. I should perhaps mention that I have both gnome and kde installed on all of my own machines. I have tried kubuntu 8.10 live cd in four machines, 3 desktops and a laptop, first as normal then as Safe Graphics mode. The laptop gave no display at all. On all of the desktop PCs normal graphics did not work at all. Safe Graphics mode was required but on one PC the low resolution was unusable as an initial experience. With another of the PCs the display would not start - I had to use ctrl alt backspace to restart the xserver, then it displayed. The final PC worked. Unfortunately I then found that trying to use this (kde4.1?) environment left me totally confused. I am not saying that personally I can not or will not find out how to use it, I am saying that as a newcomer to the environment, and most particularly as a possible newcomer from windows to linux, it would be a non starter. From the point of view of a total newcomer to linux (Kubuntu that is) - this experience would be out of the question. It would certainly not endear an unsuspecting newcomer to the kubuntu experience. I regret I must now change my advocacy strategy and simply stop offering kubuntu! At least until both - it works in typical PCs - and also something is offered that a new user can relate to! This is a blow because kubuntu has been a most useful weapon in my armoury to attract windows escapees. For me personally, I am sure that I can discover, ask, experiment, and enjoy what is offered as the future unfolds, but I will continue to use kde3 for a long time yet, I suspect, to get my work done. Also, this message is the last one in which I will use a sig which advertises kubuntu because - particularly in the non computer related forums I use - I will not want to encourage new users into what is currently a difficult experience. -- alan cocks Kubuntu user#10391 Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 12:41:08PM +, Bruce Beardall wrote: I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? As the last couple of releases have had a bumpy start I've been putting LTS versions, currently 8.04.1 Ubuntu on new installs for people recently. I think I'll stick with the 8.04.1 Ubuntu disc for a while yet. This does ask the question of why the latest releases have had a bumpy start, is the new features cut off coming too late? is it not being tested on a wide enough variety of hardware? Or is it something else? Everything seems to be patched quite quickly and a .1 release seems to follow shortly that solves most of the release day problems. Should we be advising people to wait a week, or even a month before upgrading to a new version of Ubuntu? -- Gav Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Deflect the sonar slot signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Conversion from .oma to mp3
On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 12:19 +, Javad Ayaz wrote: Does anyone know if any of the open source programs like winff can decode from Sony's .oma format. To those who dont know Sony's sonicstage wraps mp3 files in .oma and then puts it on the player. I dont have access to a windows pc anymore so i would ideally like to carry on using something opensource but not lose all my music as well. I hope this makes sense Regards -- Javad er sorry can't help but I'll back up the request :P I've looked around a bit but can't find anything. Unless soundconverter works? unlikely... I have a friend who's just moved completely to linux and he's lost his whole collection too cos it's in .oma. attachment: smiley-10.png-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] video playback
On Mon, 2008-11-03 at 22:06 +, Farran wrote: On Sun, 2008-11-02 at 22:39 +, Jason Liquorish wrote: Farran Lee wrote: hi all just upgraded, now basic video formats like .avi won't play :( help please :) thanks === Farran Lee I'm only 16 :P Hi Farran, Installing the 'ubuntu-restricted-extras' package should fix video playback problems for proprietary formats. If you also want to play restricted formats like .wmv then you can enable the medibuntu repository and install the 'w32codecs' package. Instructions to add the medibuntu repository can be found at https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Medibuntu#Adding%20the%20Repositories Hope that helps you out. -- Jason Liquorish [EMAIL PROTECTED] thanks... I had actually already done that in the last release - there just seemed to be something weird going on. Several things had changed and weren't right, but today it's all fine... strange! Thanks anyway :D === Farran Lee I'm only 16 :-P just realised, it's not all fine several things uninstalled themselves when i moved my pc back to my internetless room - nvidia driver, totem-gstreamer and several of it's plugins, and a few other things :( Which is all well annoying... so _some_ videos play, but others complain of a missing codec, and some still play in the wrong colour in certain programs, or change colour after being converted :O help!? attachment: smiley-2.pngattachment: smiley-6.pngattachment: smiley-10.pngattachment: smiley-1.png-- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
Bruce Beardall wrote: I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? It would have been interesting to hear other people's views. I agree with this, I'd be much more confident giving out an 8.04.1 disc than 8.10 going on what experience I've had of Intrepid so far. Don't get me wrong, I'm planning on upgrading my main Desktop to Intrepid in the next few days (just not had much time) and I do like what I've seen but I have also found some compatibility issues with hardware. Something which is putting me off is the lack of 3D support for older GeForce cards (i.e. GeForce 256 and GeForce 2MX). Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Conversion from .oma to mp3
On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 04:14:37PM +, Farran wrote: On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 12:19 +, Javad Ayaz wrote: Does anyone know if any of the open source programs like winff can decode from Sony's .oma format. To those who dont know Sony's sonicstage wraps mp3 files in .oma and then puts it on the player. I dont have access to a windows pc anymore so i would ideally like to carry on using something opensource but not lose all my music as well. er sorry can't help but I'll back up the request :P I've looked around a bit but can't find anything. Unless soundconverter works? unlikely... I have a friend who's just moved completely to linux and he's lost his whole collection too cos it's in .oma. This is always a danger when storing your data in closed/DRM'ed formats. I don't know about the specifics of the .oma format but could you not burn the tracks to a CD using the Sony .oma playing software then rip them back in ogg/vorbis under Ubuntu? Similar to dealing with DRM'ed tracks from the iTunes music store? -- Gav Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Realign the radar processor signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Conversion from .oma to mp3
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 16:47, gav [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 04:14:37PM +, Farran wrote: On Wed, 2008-11-05 at 12:19 +, Javad Ayaz wrote: Does anyone know if any of the open source programs like winff can decode from Sony's .oma format. To those who dont know Sony's sonicstage wraps mp3 files in .oma and then puts it on the player. I dont have access to a windows pc anymore so i would ideally like to carry on using something opensource but not lose all my music as well. er sorry can't help but I'll back up the request :P I've looked around a bit but can't find anything. Unless soundconverter works? unlikely... I have a friend who's just moved completely to linux and he's lost his whole collection too cos it's in .oma. This is always a danger when storing your data in closed/DRM'ed formats. I don't know about the specifics of the .oma format but could you not burn the tracks to a CD using the Sony .oma playing software then rip them back in ogg/vorbis under Ubuntu? Similar to dealing with DRM'ed tracks from the iTunes music store? -- Gav Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Realign the radar processor -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkkVwroACgkQXb7GbL/bCboZaACfajRvt9diYKlYWyWhGAQtX2od q1cAni4sgeGzaIro7TXu5uIXSZC4nScB =lay6 -END PGP SIGNATURE- -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ I'm not certain of this, is it possible to use VLC to play them back, and then use the save stream function to save them as your desired format? I have no ways to test this, but after a small amount of googles, I saw a hint to the possibility of being able to play them back in VLC. -- Kris Douglas Softdel Limited Hosting Services Web: www.softdel.net Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Company No. 6135915 Registered in England and Wales -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] Conversion from .oma to mp3
On Wednesday 05 November 2008 12:19:54 Javad Ayaz wrote: Does anyone know if any of the open source programs like winff can decode from Sony's .oma format. To those who dont know Sony's sonicstage wraps mp3 files in .oma and then puts it on the player. I dont have access to a windows pc anymore so i would ideally like to carry on using something opensource but not lose all my music as well. I hope this makes sense Regards There is something about .oma/.omg files here - http://forum.dbpoweramp.com/printthread.php?t=7532 - which states that they are not simply mp3s wrapped in oma, but a completely different format with DRM. -- Registered Linux User #466407 http://counter.li.org -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
gav wrote: On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 12:41:08PM +, Bruce Beardall wrote: I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? As the last couple of releases have had a bumpy start I've been putting LTS versions, currently 8.04.1 Ubuntu on new installs for people recently. I think I'll stick with the 8.04.1 Ubuntu disc for a while yet. This does ask the question of why the latest releases have had a bumpy start, is the new features cut off coming too late? is it not being tested on a wide enough variety of hardware? Or is it something else? Everything seems to be patched quite quickly and a .1 release seems to follow shortly that solves most of the release day problems. Should we be advising people to wait a week, or even a month before upgrading to a new version of Ubuntu? I thought this was a matter of course for most operating systems, wait a while, see if there any major issues then upgrade, of course if everyone did that we would not identify issues, perhaps also as advocates we should install out selves and be able to fix issues before giving copies away to users to just want it to work and not worry about fixing stuff that much. its a difficult one to call but it looks far better on us if we are told by a user of a problem and we know how to fix it quickly, rathar than having to explain why a simple thing like disc eject is not working properly. perhaps once a few issues are fixed the cd image (iso file) should be updated with these fixes, so 8.10.1 8.10.2 etc, each month, until 9.04 is released, this would sound more logical, as that way it would not just be fixes but updates too, and once installed it won't be taking as long to download the updates to fix issues, the software cd will never then be more than 1 or 2 months out of date, where as 8.10 in march will be about 5 months out of date and still carry know issues from when it was pressed. I would also guess that 8.10.5/6 would have certain bits in there that will make any transition to 9.04 much easier,. just my thoughts really. I will send off for some 8.10 cd. Paul Paul -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
Sean Miller wrote: We now seem to have a relatively stable system for him, but I've told him to leave NVDIA graphics out for the time being. That REALLY screws everything. Ahh so I'm not the only one to think this then? When I upgrade I'll be most probably going back to an ATI X300 video card. Rob -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] video playback
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 4:18 PM, Farran [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: just realised, it's not all fine several things uninstalled themselves when i moved my pc back to my internetless room - nvidia driver, totem-gstreamer and several of it's plugins, and a few other things Which is all well annoying... so _some_ videos play, but others complain of a missing codec, and some still play in the wrong colour in certain programs, or change colour after being converted help!? Personally, I'd install VLC and be done with it. Should play pretty much anything you can throw at it. Codecs come with the package so minimal arsing around. -- Steve When one person suffers from a delusion it is insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion. 09 F9 11 02 9D 74 E3 5B D8 41 56 C5 63 56 88 C0 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
That could be right, Alan... I'm not sure what my friend has done exactly, but what's happened is that on bootup nvidia fails to load and if we select the restricted driver the machine won't boot... it won't even go into x at all. We then have to do a dpkg-reconfigure to reset the graphics to the defaults. If I Google for nvidia and intrepid I get many sob stories and I don't have the time to spend my entire life helping him as I need to also work, so for the moment he's got no graphics accelleration etc. BUT at least he has what is - effectively - a working Intrepid install for most things. If he wants Google Earth then he's out of luck - but if he wants shell, word processor, e-mail or whatever he'll be fine! Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
On Sat, Nov 8, 2008 at 6:06 PM, Alan Pope [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2008/11/8 Rob Beard [EMAIL PROTECTED]: Sean Miller wrote: We now seem to have a relatively stable system for him, but I've told him to leave NVDIA graphics out for the time being. That REALLY screws everything. Ahh so I'm not the only one to think this then? When I upgrade I'll be most probably going back to an ATI X300 video card. I have two machines with Nvidia cards in. A laptop with a 6800Go and a desktop with twin 7900GTs. I have zero problems upgrading these days. I stick to the general recommendation to use only the binary driver from the repository, and not from the nvidia website, and not using any helper applications (envy / automatix / ultimatix). Just works here. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/ Automatix *shivers in memory* What an awful thing that was. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
I've spent the day trying to help a potter with his Kubuntu 8.10 woes. Great laugh on a Saturday! We now seem to have a relatively stable system for him, but I've told him to leave NVDIA graphics out for the time being. That REALLY screws everything. Sean -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 05:55:46PM +, Paul Sutton wrote: I thought this was a matter of course for most operating systems, wait a while, see if there any major issues then upgrade, of course if everyone did that we would not identify issues, perhaps also as advocates we should install out selves and be able to fix issues before giving copies away to users to just want it to work and not worry about fixing stuff that much. I've never really had this before, but I went from Windows 95 where there was no option of downloading updates to Slackware that is for the most part bullet proof if a bit savage by today's standards. Ubuntu is the first OS I've used that takes a release-on-time, fix-later approach. It's a bit spooky really, it seemed to work perfectly until the releases this year. But that said, Ubuntu really is the simplest, cleanest and most complete OS for new Linux users so it's what I give to switchers. its a difficult one to call but it looks far better on us if we are told by a user of a problem and we know how to fix it quickly, rathar than having to explain why a simple thing like disc eject is not working properly. The eject thing is really embarrassing. The drive on my machine can't close automagically so I've not seen it, but it's a shamefully silly fault. -- Gav Ford [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://revford.pwp.blueyonder.co.uk I think we need to: Vent the secondary EPS resistor signature.asc Description: Digital signature -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
Lucy wrote: [...] I've also had problems with the latest Ubuntu and I think some of the problems he's experienced could also affect Ubuntu too. Oddly enough though I'm quite keen to try out KDE again, to see how I feel with it's latest changes. Newbie nightmares aside, the new kubuntu - (kde 4.1?) looks like a toolkit for a lot of real pleasure and fun - I look forward to enjoying it in a rather similar way to compiz, which I *love* to show off. The trick is to get somebody who is not expecting stuff, and hope to arrange for a jaw drop situation. I am not that good at the performance though -- alan cocks Ubuntu user Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
gav wrote: On Sat, Nov 08, 2008 at 12:41:08PM +, Bruce Beardall wrote: I think you raise some important concerns, Alan. As a Gnome user, I can't really say I've had much recent experience beyond a cursory glance at KDE 4 but I think this leads to an interesting question: If we're to advocate Linux [and as far as this list is concerned, Ubuntu] should we be concentrating our advocacy on the LTS release? It's all too easy for anyone on this list to get carried away with the latest and greatest but the vast majority of those we're trying to introduce Linux to are used to the years between each Windows release. Should we be concentrating on introducing them to a release which is intended to be around for a number of years and expected to have a certain level of stability and accessibility? As the last couple of releases have had a bumpy start I've been putting LTS versions, currently 8.04.1 Ubuntu on new installs for people recently. I think I'll stick with the 8.04.1 Ubuntu disc for a while yet. This does ask the question of why the latest releases have had a bumpy start, is the new features cut off coming too late? is it not being tested on a wide enough variety of hardware? Or is it something else? Everything seems to be patched quite quickly and a .1 release seems to follow shortly that solves most of the release day problems. Should we be advising people to wait a week, or even a month before upgrading to a new version of Ubuntu? I notice that when regular updates arrive and are completed, there is always a prominent notice saying 'New Version Available' Version Upgrade - Click here! or similar. I usually resist this temptation until I know I am actually ready for the show, which is sometimes an ok non event - a very smooth ride. However, if I am faced with glitches or unexpected consequences, I can hopefully cope. But one of the elderly people I help with ubuntu/Kubuntu (aged 85) did on one occasion click the Version upgrade innocently going from LTS 6.06 to the next version, and there were a few problems - which I later caught up with ok, but it did make me think. My current inclination is to consider getting such users to have a non sudo account, but I would still wish them to do security updates themselves, but not version upgrades. Will think on this some more. -- alan cocks Ubuntu user Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
Alan Pope wrote: 2008/11/8 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: I have just tried kubuntu 8.10 Live CD for the first time and I am deeply troubled by what I find. I just booted Kubuntu 8.10 on my Dell XPS laptop and it seemed quite nice. I'm no fan of KDE but I can see how it might appeal to someone looking at XP or Vista alternatives. Everything seemed to work on my hardware and the screen resolution was correctly set. I only had it up and running for half an hour to poke about. I keep threatening to switch to KDE for at least one whole development cycle of Ubuntu - so that's 6 months at least. I'd like to try it out and see if it could work for me as a standard desktop OS. It would also give me the opportunity to be able to support Kubuntu users - which at the moment I can't do because I have very little clue about KDE. Sorry to hear you are having problems with Kubuntu Alan, and I hope you can take time out to diagnose the issues and perhaps file bugs against the relevant packages, or ask specific questions here so we can help you get the systems up and running. It seems that some problems are associated with xorg and its (now) lack of visible configuration. I could usually stumble in the right direction when xorg.conf was meaningful, even using vi, but I am quite lost in the current situations, with the minimal xorg.conf. I will be reassured if those looking for alternatives do find kubuntu to be attractive. People who use a PC like a toaster - it should just work.. may still get confused by the avant guard facilties. Does XP have configurable Widgets? -- alan cocks Ubuntu user Linux user #360648 -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
Re: [ubuntu-uk] [marketing] Intrepid 8.10 Kubuntu - disaster
2008/11/8 alan c [EMAIL PROTECTED]: It seems that some problems are associated with xorg and its (now) lack of visible configuration. I could usually stumble in the right direction when xorg.conf was meaningful, even using vi, but I am quite lost in the current situations, with the minimal xorg.conf. There's nothing stopping you using a normal populated xorg.conf on a recent install of Ubuntu or Kubuntu. Whilst recent Xorg can cope with a minimal (or even no) xorg.conf, it can also be used with a fully populated configured xorg.conf. You could for example take an xorg.conf from an earlier version of Ubuntu and use it on a recent version. Cheers, Al. -- ubuntu-uk@lists.ubuntu.com https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/ubuntu-uk https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UKTeam/
