[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones
Well - before we start to discuss this... it might be helpful to have English translations of what Corbetta says in the preface - and to have to hand the music. The French preface is slightly different for the Italian French Preface You will see the example of a batterie placed in a caprice de chacone [p.72] where the note with the longer stem indicates that the thumb should be used for both up and down strokes; and you will observe that when you see four notes tied together, you ought to use the second finger descending, and then after with the first finger you will do the same upwards in a very quick beat; and you will continue always with the fingers and the thumb following the example which you will see there. In another chaconne [p.75] there is another batterie which I have printed previously (desia). And because it has the gift of pleasing, I wanted to place it here, where you will see that there are six strokes in the form of quavers. You will play four [quavers] on the first, second and third strings carrying the hand downwards; after you will make the other two strokes on the two fourth and fifth strings carrying the hand upwards without touching the others; after changing the fingering [of the left hand] you do the same with the other six. Changing the fingers for the next four which follow, you will strike the first chord a little strongly and the other three very sweetly. You will play the others in the same way changing the fingering as you commence the first of each six. This is why you will find an f that indicates that you strike rather strongly on the first stroke and in this way the batterie will be more delicate. Italian Preface You will see an example of a repicco placed in a ciaccona [on p.72], where the longer tail to the note signifies the thumb; having already begun with the fingers [i.e. played the chord once with all four fingers], then do the same, upwards with the thumb, making the same upwards. Observe that the four tied notes signify that one must first make the note with second finger and then with the first close to it, and thus again as upstrokes at a quicker tempo, and continue with the fingers and thumb. In another next ciaccona [on p.75] you will see another repicco already placed in the press where to confusion I have place the same more perfect thing. Where you see six quaver strokes, play four of them from the third course downwards, and moving the hand make the next two strokes on the other two courses, the first and second i.e. 5th 4th], without touching the others [1st , 2nd 3rd]. After changing the fingers on the frets, play in the same way for the other six quavers, and changing the fingers at the next four, strike the first quaver loudly, and the other three softly. Do the same on changing the fingers at the other [groups of four] until the first six begin again. Where you find an f this means play the first of the four beats loudly, and thus you will achieve a beautiful repicco. Marchetti's exlanation of the repicco is much simpler... The repicco is made giving four strokes, that is two down and two up. The first stroke is played downwards with the middle finger and the second down with the thumb; the third stroke is played upwards with the thumb and the fourth up with the index finger playing however [with the index finger] only the cantino, or first course. One repicco equals two strokes. Over to you now... Monica - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Vihuela Dmth vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com; Early Guitar Dmth early-gui...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:57 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones To Vihuela (early guitar) list: The aside by Chris on the 'trill' he was taught to execute raises an important issue not, I think, much discussed: the precise manner of strumming used by the Old Ones. The repertoire of strumming styles used by players of the 'baroque' guitar these days often seems to me to more related to modern robust flamenco play than the precise technique used by earlier players (at least based on what they wrote). Chris's description of his strum is, of course, similar to the 'repicco' described by Corbetta in his 1671 collection (NB bourdon on 4th course!). Translation of extract 'Note that the four tied beats strike down the first note with the middle finger then with the index and then the same as upstroke' (I hope this is accurate if not a a literal translation). That an experienced player Stuart thought it a new (to him) style of strumming may perhaps illustrate how many of us (me included!) fail to adhere always to the earlier instructions. Incidentally, I think to call it a trill (or more correctly 'trillo') as Chris was told, is perhaps wrong: my understanding of this term is that it is a strum
[VIHUELA] Early guitar image
Dear List, Does this look like a 5-course baroque guitar to you? I’m wondering whether to use this as an illustration of an “early guitar” and perhaps be even more specific (5-course?), but I wanted to see what list members think. I need to use a public domain image. Here’s the link: http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php Many thanks, Jocelyn To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones
On 17/04/2011 17:07, Monica Hall wrote: Well - before we start to discuss this... it might be helpful to have English translations of what Corbetta says in the preface - and to have to hand the music. The French preface is slightly different for the Italian French Preface You will see the example of a batterie placed in a caprice de chacone [p.72] where the note with the longer stem indicates that the thumb should be used for both up and down strokes; and you will observe that when you see four notes tied together, you ought to use the second finger descending, and then after with the first finger you will do the same upwards in a very quick beat; and you will continue always with the fingers and the thumb following the example which you will see there. In another chaconne [p.75] there is another batterie which I have printed previously (desia). And because it has the gift of pleasing, I wanted to place it here, where you will see that there are six strokes in the form of quavers. You will play four [quavers] on the first, second and third strings carrying the hand downwards; after you will make the other two strokes on the two fourth and fifth strings carrying the hand upwards without touching the others; after changing the fingering [of the left hand] you do the same with the other six. Changing the fingers for the next four which follow, you will strike the first chord a little strongly and the other three very sweetly. You will play the others in the same way changing the fingering as you commence the first of each six. This is why you will find an f that indicates that you strike rather strongly on the first stroke and in this way the batterie will be more delicate. Italian Preface You will see an example of a repicco placed in a ciaccona [on p.72], where the longer tail to the note signifies the thumb; having already begun with the fingers [i.e. played the chord once with all four fingers], then do the same, upwards with the thumb, making the same upwards. Observe that the four tied notes signify that one must first make the note with second finger and then with the first close to it, and thus again as upstrokes at a quicker tempo, and continue with the fingers and thumb. In another next ciaccona [on p.75] you will see another repicco already placed in the press where to confusion I have place the same more perfect thing. Where you see six quaver strokes, play four of them from the third course downwards, and moving the hand make the next two strokes on the other two courses, the first and second i.e. 5th 4th], without touching the others [1st , 2nd 3rd]. After changing the fingers on the frets, play in the same way for the other six quavers, and changing the fingers at the next four, strike the first quaver loudly, and the other three softly. Do the same on changing the fingers at the other [groups of four] until the first six begin again. Where you find an f this means play the first of the four beats loudly, and thus you will achieve a beautiful repicco. Marchetti's exlanation of the repicco is much simpler... The repicco is made giving four strokes, that is two down and two up. The first stroke is played downwards with the middle finger and the second down with the thumb; the third stroke is played upwards with the thumb and the fourth up with the index finger playing however [with the index finger] only the cantino, or first course. One repicco equals two strokes. Over to you now... Monica And Monica has translated Foscarini's instructions on playing the Trillo, Picco and Repicco in her essay 'Giovanni Paulo Foscarini: Plagiarist or Pioneer? (at the very end) http://www.monicahall.co.uk/ (and there is another translation of Foscarini in Tyler's 'The Early Guitar'.) And looking at all that, many people (like me) probably decide to give up! Maybe the really showy stuff is for some alfabeto and/or for some chaconnes/passaccales rather than general application in mixed tablatures? Taro Takeuchi has evolved some impressive sounding strumming techniques and he has not used flamenco techniques. I was interested in Chris's first chord in the Roncall Preludio because it sounds quite different from other strums I've heard. Stuart - Original Message - From: Martyn Hodgson hodgsonmar...@yahoo.co.uk To: Vihuela Dmth vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Cc: Chris Despopoulos despopoulos_chr...@yahoo.com; Early Guitar Dmth early-gui...@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sunday, April 17, 2011 9:57 AM Subject: [VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones To Vihuela (early guitar) list: The aside by Chris on the 'trill' he was taught to execute raises an important issue not, I think, much discussed: the precise manner of strumming used by the Old Ones. The repertoire of strumming styles used by players of the 'baroque' guitar these days often seems to me to more related to
[VIHUELA] Re: Early guitar image
I can't say whether it looks like a 5-course instrument -- the image is too small for me to make out the pegs. But it looks well enough like a baroque guitar to me. OTOH, I can't say anything about the gentleman's garb. Is it baroque, or earlier? I just don't know enough about costume of the period... I can't say why but it seems a little off to me. cud __ From: Nelson, Jocelyn nels...@ecu.edu To: Vihuelalist vihuela@cs.dartmouth.edu Sent: Sun, April 17, 2011 1:01:03 PM Subject: [VIHUELA] Early guitar image Dear List, Does this look like a 5-course baroque guitar to you? I'm wondering whether to use this as an illustration of an early guitar and perhaps be even more specific (5-course?), but I wanted to see what list members think. I need to use a public domain image. Here's the link: [1]http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php Many thanks, Jocelyn To get on or off this list see list information at [2]http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- References 1. http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php 2. http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/%7Ewbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Strumming techniques - was With/Without Bordones
Another thing that bothers me in general is the way in which the sound in many recordings seems to be amplified. Even turning the volume down doesn't in any way soften the music - it just makes it sound indistinct and further away. The Foscarini CD e.g. sounded like heavy metal whereas in a live performance even with the odd line up it wouldn't sound like that. Surely it is possible to capture the sound of a live performance more faithfully. I could go on for ever Who couldn't?...are there entry qualifications? - but most of these matters are too complex to discuss intelligently in a hurry and on a list like this. Phooey! And this message when I received it was a complete mess. I have tried to tidy it up. I do think at least we should agree whether we will reply at the end or the beginning and everyone do the same things. Monica To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html
[VIHUELA] Re: Early guitar image
It´s an engraving from 1847, perhaps not the most reliable source for a ´proper´ 5-course Baroque guitar. Weird bridge position (and size!), just for starters. David On 17 April 2011 19:01, Nelson, Jocelyn nels...@ecu.edu wrote: Dear List, Does this look like a 5-course baroque guitar to you? I’m wondering whether to use this as an illustration of an “early guitar” and perhaps be even more specific (5-course?), but I wanted to see what list members think. I need to use a public domain image. Here’s the link: http://www.istockphoto.com/stock-photo-7536315-love.php Many thanks, Jocelyn To get on or off this list see list information at http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html -- *** David van Ooijen davidvanooi...@gmail.com www.davidvanooijen.nl ***
