Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
Why should those who follow God in this age or era expect a test which is different from that faced by people who follow God in any other age or era, if that is what you are saying? Most people do not have an opportunity to do great and special things for which their names will go down in history, but are called to do their work in their families and their neighborhoods. Or are you suggesting that only those who do some thing that earns them a place in history will qualify for exaltation? At 06:38 AM 7/17/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I don't buy that completely as that could be the test of any age or era. Stacy. At 06:28 AM 07/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
He works off of a checklist. Broken heart Contrite Spirit Ordinances completed Not a member of silly email lists Jon Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Luke 18:13. Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart and a contrite spirit? // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
Ronn! Blankenship wrote: Luke 18:13. Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart and a contrite spirit? At 08:21 PM 8/11/03 -0400, Jon Spencer wrote: He works off of a checklist. __x_ Broken heart __x_ Contrite Spirit __x_ Ordinances completed Not a member of silly email lists Oh, drat. -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
At 12:58 AM 7/13/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: It says after all we can do, not after all we do. That's not to say we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he hardly notices. It is certainly nothing to go to the bishop about, at least that's what he thinks. He says to himself at first, Boy, that was a very dumb thing to do. The doorbell rings. He answers the door. Then after he takes care of that the telephone rings. He takes care of that. Soon he decides to balance his checkbook. After a while he figures he'll watch a little television. Finally he may or may not remember to pray, another sin in and of itself. He forgets he hasn't confessed the sin of which he was guilty. Now what? What about many more than one like that? Finally he dies. Oops? After all he could have done? Luke 18:13. Again, does God work off a checklist, or does He desire a broken heart and a contrite spirit? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 04:04 PM 7/13/03 -0600, George Cobabe wrote: I am not sure that any personal story I could come up with would be of any interest to any of you, and of course would not be any of your concerns. However, I am personally convinced that the test will consist of what ever it takes to try you to the core of your being - not a test that will be impossible or perhaps even that much if given to another person. I believe it will consist of you needing to put the will of God ahead of everything else. Which means that you will need to know and understand the will of God. And it may be something which no one else may ever know about . . . -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 06:48 AM 7/17/03 -0700, Bill Johnson wrote: I don't think one will know for sure that their election has been made sure until one has died. As long as we live and breathe, we are sinning. A scripture that says something to the effect of: All has sinned and has come short of the glory of God is very true. It comes down to the thought that if you are sinning, how for heavens sake cane one have their calling made sure? You can't at least in this life time. AFAIK, the only way you could know in this life is if God told you, as he did Alma: Blessed art thou, Alma, [...] Thou art my servant; and I covenant with thee that thou shalt have eternal life; and thou shalt serve me and go forth in my name, and shalt gather together my sheep. (Mosiah 26:15, 20) which might provide an answer to the question which started this thread: as far as we know from the account we have in the scriptures, did Alma start out with a checklist, or did he go about doing the will of God without thought of reward and then God surprised him one day by telling him the above? -- Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
Paul Osborne wrote: As far as this life being a nightmare? (as was suggested) - that does not seem like a loving Father at all. I think that this life is a wonderful experience and every challenge only adds to the fun. And the small challenges are only there to prepare us for the big one. I don't agree with you George. Life can be a nightmare. Father in Heaven is loving but he also very mean. Paul, that has to be one of the worst things I have ever heard you say. Our Father in Heaven is NOT mean. No more than a loving earthly parent who has to follow through with a promised punishment for deliberate disobedience. He loves us far beyond our own comprehension. What you perceive as meanness on His part is either the consequences of disobedient actions of yours or those around you, or else is challenges He has given you for your own benefit. These latter are for your benefit and improvement and are given to you out of the Purest Love, not from meanness. If you really feel the way you wrote, I feel truly sorry for you. Scott -- The family that prays together, stays together. --- Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Factthat Most
John W. Redelfs wrote: My list would be much shorter: 1. A testimony that there is a God. 2. A testimony that his Son is Jesus Christ. 3. A testimony that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. 4. A testimony that the current leadership are prophets including the Church President, the Stake President, and the Bishop. 5. A current temple recommend obtained honestly. 6. Successful temple marriage. 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, Family Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast Offering contributions. 9. Enduring to the end. Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it would qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. But for all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. Very few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly humble either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. I made it to number six. I can't claim to have made number six. My first wife, to whom I was sealed, left me and violated our covenant. I found Jo, whom I love immensely, but so far, the Lord has not seen fit to inspire the first presidency to approve me for being sealed to her. I am not doing much better on 7 through 9 either. My grandfather is one of those great men whom I feel did meet this list in all particulars. He was a spiritual giant and one whom I am certain was worthy of celestial glory. I wish I could live up to his example better. Scott -- The family that prays together, stays together. --- Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:10:36 -0400 Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul Osborne wrote: As far as this life being a nightmare? (as was suggested) - that does not seem like a loving Father at all. I think that this life is a wonderful experience and every challenge only adds to the fun. And the small challenges are only there to prepare us for the big one. I don't agree with you George. Life can be a nightmare. Father in Heaven is loving but he also very mean. Paul, that has to be one of the worst things I have ever heard you say. Our Father in Heaven is NOT mean. No more than a loving earthly parent who has to follow through with a promised punishment for deliberate disobedience. He loves us far beyond our own comprehension. What you perceive as meanness on His part is either the consequences of disobedient actions of yours or those around you, or else is challenges He has given you for your own benefit. These latter are for your benefit and improvement and are given to you out of the Purest Love, not from meanness. If you really feel the way you wrote, I feel truly sorry for you. Scott Ok, Scott-- I stand corrected. I should have used the word, STRICT. Does that sound better? I think Father in Heaven is very loving but he is also strict. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
Yes Paul, much better. I agree He is strict. It is that whole demands of justice thing, though, not just because he wants to be. He could have been much less strict and let us stay eternally with Him in our pre-mortal state, but we wanted so too be like Him, and this life (and the consequent strictness) is the results. He has to stick by His word. Scott Paul Osborne wrote: On Sat, 19 Jul 2003 14:10:36 -0400 Scott McGee [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Paul Osborne wrote: I don't agree with you George. Life can be a nightmare. Father in Heaven is loving but he also very mean. Paul, that has to be one of the worst things I have ever heard you say. Our Father in Heaven is NOT mean. No more than a loving earthly parent who has to follow through with a promised punishment for deliberate disobedience. He loves us far beyond our own comprehension. What you perceive as meanness on His part is either the consequences of disobedient actions of yours or those around you, or else is challenges He has given you for your own benefit. These latter are for your benefit and improvement and are given to you out of the Purest Love, not from meanness. If you really feel the way you wrote, I feel truly sorry for you. Scott Ok, Scott-- I stand corrected. I should have used the word, STRICT. Does that sound better? I think Father in Heaven is very loving but he is also strict. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / -- The family that prays together, stays together. --- Scott McGee ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) web site: http://themcgees.org/scott/ // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
At 07:52 AM 7/13/2003 -0400, you wrote: Paul Osborne wrote to our BLT: I'm a bigger jerk than you and that's pretty bad! ;-) Grampa Bill comments: But Till lives in a deeper (and more humble) hole than either of you. Yes, yes, and his floor is so covered with electrons from all the back e-mail that he can hardly crawl through them without drowning. Actually, his mother just had an emergency valve replacement and triple by-pass Monday. She has been getting more and more frail lately. Guess that's why. She was up and moving around a little and sounding in pretty good spirits last night. I'm making (yet another) pilgrimage to Rochester tonight to see her. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
At 10:03 AM 7/13/2003 -0600, Cousin St George wrote: One of the points that ought to worry you that is not on your list is the idea that you will be tried to the limit of your ability. Just like Abraham was tested so you will be tested - differently but as severe. Just as others that we can list have been tested so will you. How can you expect to be in the presence of such men and women unless you have a similar heritage of proving yourself? Ouch Till tends to not like to dwell on that one. Till the wienie // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
At 10:03 AM 7/13/2003 -0600, Cousin St George wrote: One of the points that ought to worry you that is not on your list is the idea that you will be tried to the limit of your ability. Just like Abraham was tested so you will be tested - differently but as severe. Just as others that we can list have been tested so will you. How can you expect to be in the presence of such men and women unless you have a similar heritage of proving yourself? Ouch! Till tends not to dwell on that one. Till the wienie // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? Till suspects that those what has them would rather not tell them. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 09:22 PM 7/13/2003 -0800, BLT wrote: Still, the only thing that keeps me going is the fact that it won't last forever. Death will bring some relief when it finally comes. All I have to do is endure to the end. Relief from what, John?Us We're here to take care of eachother. I well know how bleak things look from inside a depression, but all in all, Till would say that we have a lot going for us. Till // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
I don't buy that completely as that could be the test of any age or era. Stacy. At 06:28 AM 07/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . --Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
I don't think one will know for sure that their election has been made sure until one has died. As long as we live and breathe, we are sinning. A scripture that says something to the effect of: All has sinned and has come short of the glory of God is very true. It comes down to the thought that if you are sinning, how for heavens sake cane one have their calling made sure? You can't at least in this life time. Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't buy that completely as that could be the test of any age or era. Stacy. At 06:28 AM 07/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . --Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
I understand you concerns Bill, for as you I have also sinned and stand still condemned in this world - until the atonement takes action in my life at least. In fact, however, there is an ordinance of confirming that you have attained this status. It used to be more common than now and is only known by those who have received it. After receiving it the person is not in some perfect state of sinlessness, but in the status of understanding that the atonement fully takes place in their life. It can, and does, take place in this life. Understanding your status before God is THE great mystery that we all want to seek and attain. We are promised that these mysteries will be given to the faithful. If you disagree that is OK, as I am not willing to debate or contend over this issue. But this is a true principle. George - Original Message - From: Bill Johnson [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, July 17, 2003 7:48 AM Subject: Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ... I don't think one will know for sure that their election has been made sure until one has died. As long as we live and breathe, we are sinning. A scripture that says something to the effect of: All has sinned and has come short of the glory of God is very true. It comes down to the thought that if you are sinning, how for heavens sake cane one have their calling made sure? You can't at least in this life time. Stacy Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I don't buy that completely as that could be the test of any age or era. Stacy. At 06:28 AM 07/17/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 07:16 AM 7/17/03 -0400, Elmer L. Fairbank wrote: At 01:55 PM 7/13/2003 -0500, St Stacy wrote: What would such a test consist of? Physical endurance? Brainwashing? Torture or something less diabolical such as integrity? What about martyrdom? Can we have any stories? I wonder if for many of us the test may not be being asked to endure torture or kill someone, but may be more like enduring to the end despite things such as chronic illness, handicap, poverty, loneliness, etc. . . . --Ronn! :) // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / - Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Search - Faster. Easier. Bingo. -- [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
It says after all we can do, not after all we do. That's not to say we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he hardly notices. It is certainly nothing to go to the bishop about, at least that's what he thinks. He says to himself at first, Boy, that was a very dumb thing to do. The doorbell rings. He answers the door. Then after he takes care of that the telephone rings. He takes care of that. Soon he decides to balance his checkbook. After a while he figures he'll watch a little television. Finally he may or may not remember to pray, another sin in and of itself. He forgets he hasn't confessed the sin of which he was guilty. Now what? What about many more than one like that? Finally he dies. Oops? After all he could have done? Stacy. Stacy. At 12:57 AM 07/13/2003 -0500, you wrote: At 04:40 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. 2. 3. ... At 04:41 PM 7/12/03 -0800, John W. Redelfs wrote: My list would be much shorter: 1. 2. 3. ... At 05:54 PM 7/12/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: I can't say I've met all your list either. If I can't say I've met all mine or all yours it looks like Jesus may have pity on me or I won't make it either. WADR, I think that anyone who thinks there is a list of things they are supposed to do to accomplish this is missing the point. For we labor diligently to write, to persuade our children, and also our brethren, to believe in Christ, and to be reconciled to God; for we know that it is by grace that we are saved, after all we can do. (2 Nephi 25:23) At 11:53 PM 7/12/03 -0400, Noel B wrote: I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the difference. Thou hast said well. I will go further and say that anyone who sets having my calling and election made sure as a goal is missing the point. IMO, God wants us to love Him and to do what He tells us to do ***because we love Him***. If we have any other motivation as our primary motivation, we are off-track, and perhaps are looking beyond the mark as did the ancient Jews. Some of the greatest spiritual experiences I have had came when I was not seeking any spiritual experience, in fact, some of them came when I was feeling like an utter failure and had no idea how to proceed. God wants us to love Him, trust Him, and follow Him, period. If we do that, we are likely to be pleasantly surprised when some of these things happen to us. (And yes, I am writing many of these things as much to myself as to anyone else.) FWIW, it has occurred to me that receiving a promise of eternal life from God may not be so much a reward for having lived a perfect life and accomplished completely everything on some checklist as perhaps God saying to that person I trust you. You are still human and are still going to make mistakes in trying to do My will, but I know your heart, and I know that you are trying your best to serve me, so don't be afraid to do the things you think you should because you might make mistakes: they won't be fatal mistakes. My 2¢ (probably not worth that much) . . . --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Factthat Most
Paul Osborne wrote to our BLT: I'm a bigger jerk than you and that's pretty bad! ;-) Grampa Bill comments: But Till lives in a deeper (and more humble) hole than either of you. Love y'all, Grampa Bill in Savannah // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
Concerning 2 Nephi 25:23 . . . At 12:58 AM 7/13/03 -0500, Stacy Smith wrote: It says after all we can do, not after all we do. Exactly. No matter how much we do, we can never do enough to save ourselves. We are all dependent upon God's grace, even after doing everything we can possibly do. Which is why I said that anyone who thinks s/he can get there by checking off items on a list is missing the point. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
At 10:03 AM 7/13/03 -0600, George Cobabe wrote: Come on folks - this is an easy list. You can do all of this and still have time left over for all the rest you might want to do. Your exaltation depends more upon your acceptance of the atonement, which no one has mentioned so far, than ANYTHING else you do. All the rest is fluff - important fluff - but fluff compared to the necessity for accepting and understanding the Atonement. That's what I was saying (in different words, of course). [snip] One of the points that ought to worry you that is not on your list is the idea that you will be tried to the limit of your ability. Just like Abraham was tested so you will be tested - differently but as severe. Just as others that we can list have been tested so will you. How can you expect to be in the presence of such men and women unless you have a similar heritage of proving yourself? Again, something I was trying to get at. --Ronn! :) I always knew that I would see the first man on the Moon. I never dreamed that I would see the last. --Dr. Jerry Pournelle // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure...
Stacy Smith favored us with: It says after all we can do, not after all we do. That's not to say we don't repent and repent often. I'll give you a scenario. Suppose someone commits sin no. 760 of the day but it is a tiny thing and he hardly notices. It is certainly nothing to go to the bishop about, at least that's what he thinks. He says to himself at first, Boy, that was a very dumb thing to do. The doorbell rings. He answers the door. Then after he takes care of that the telephone rings. He takes care of that. Soon he decides to balance his checkbook. After a while he figures he'll watch a little television. Finally he may or may not remember to pray, another sin in and of itself. He forgets he hasn't confessed the sin of which he was guilty. Now what? What about many more than one like that? Finally he dies. Oops? After all he could have done? It was the Pharisees that counted their steps to synagog on the Sabbath, not God. Heavenly Father is not a nit picker. He knows our hearts. And if we are doing our best, that is all we can do. For myself, I think all we can do is just getting up out of bed on many mornings. This life is a nightmare by any reasonable measure. I think Heavenly Father takes that into consideration when he decides how much is all we can do. Heavenly Father is not a hanging judge. He is a loving father. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
I am sorry that your life is so terrible that you need to disagree. I have noticed that when the burden is great and is heavy to bear it is a result of sin and of ignoring the promise of the Savior: My burden is light. Challenges? Yes, but manageable and to be celebrated as opportunities to have our soul refined in preparation for the next life. Not a nightmare - a sweet life with challenges. At least in my limited experience. George - Original Message - From: Paul Osborne [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 4:21 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ... As far as this life being a nightmare? (as was suggested) - that does not seem like a loving Father at all. I think that this life is a wonderful experience and every challenge only adds to the fun. And the small challenges are only there to prepare us for the big one. I don't agree with you George. Life can be a nightmare. Father in Heaven is loving but he also very mean. Paul O [EMAIL PROTECTED] The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
George Cobabe favored us with: I am sorry that your life is so terrible that you need to disagree. I have noticed that when the burden is great and is heavy to bear it is a result of sin and of ignoring the promise of the Savior: My burden is light. Challenges? Yes, but manageable and to be celebrated as opportunities to have our soul refined in preparation for the next life. Not a nightmare - a sweet life with challenges. At least in my limited experience. Was Marine Corps boot camp a nightmare, George? --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ...
Well I did not go through Boot Camp, but rather OCS. But it was not a nightmare and certainly was not representative of life in general. It was challenging and not a lot of fun, but it was manageable. The point is that bad experiences are not the sum total of what life is or what life is about. Life generally is great experiences with family and friends. It is attending to church assignments. It is working with clients and solving problems. But it is not scary, it is not horrible and it is something I look forward to every day. I have kids that drive me crazy - that reject the church, but I also have more kids that are all that a father would want. It all balances out and I get out of life what I expect and what God wants me to have to experience all that I need to perfect myself through living the best I can and relying on the atonement of the Savior. Attitude, not Circumstances is one of the keys to a happy life. George - Original Message - From: John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, July 13, 2003 9:30 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and ... George Cobabe favored us with: I am sorry that your life is so terrible that you need to disagree. I have noticed that when the burden is great and is heavy to bear it is a result of sin and of ignoring the promise of the Savior: My burden is light. Challenges? Yes, but manageable and to be celebrated as opportunities to have our soul refined in preparation for the next life. Not a nightmare - a sweet life with challenges. At least in my limited experience. Was Marine Corps boot camp a nightmare, George? --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
[ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop
I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
Stacy Smith favored us with: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? My list would be much shorter: 1. A testimony that there is a God. 2. A testimony that his Son is Jesus Christ. 3. A testimony that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. 4. A testimony that the current leadership are prophets including the Church President, the Stake President, and the Bishop. 5. A current temple recommend obtained honestly. 6. Successful temple marriage. 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, Family Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast Offering contributions. 9. Enduring to the end. Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it would qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. But for all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. Very few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly humble either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
Re: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
I can't say I've met all your list either. If I can't say I've met all mine or all yours it looks like Jesus may have pity on me or I won't make it either. Stacy. At 04:41 PM 07/12/2003 -0800, you wrote: Stacy Smith favored us with: I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? My list would be much shorter: 1. A testimony that there is a God. 2. A testimony that his Son is Jesus Christ. 3. A testimony that Joseph Smith was a true prophet. 4. A testimony that the current leadership are prophets including the Church President, the Stake President, and the Bishop. 5. A current temple recommend obtained honestly. 6. Successful temple marriage. 7. Attention to all family duties such as regular family prayer, Family Home Evening, food storage, genealogy and scripture study, etc. 8. True charity towards ones fellow man including generous Fast Offering contributions. 9. Enduring to the end. Number seven is the sticky wicket with me. Sometimes I think it would qualify me for having my Calling and Election Sure all by itself. But for all my outward observances, I am often not particularly charitable. Very few people would describe me as sweet or kind. I'm not particularly humble either. So I have to work on number seven or I'll never make it. John W. Redelfs [EMAIL PROTECTED] === There is no place in this work for those who believe only in the gospel of doom and gloom. The gospel is good news. It is a message of triumph. --Gordon B. Hinckley === All my opinions are tentative pending further data. --JWR // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most P
Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most
This is what Enos received after his wrestle with God which took him into the forest for a day and night of prayer. There are a number of descriptions in the scriptures on this topic: Mosiah 4, Enos, 3Nephi 12:1-2, and one of my favorites, DC39:6. I don't think it is the same thing. Noel -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mos
All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Stacy. At 09:49 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: This is what Enos received after his wrestle with God which took him into the forest for a day and night of prayer. There are a number of descriptions in the scriptures on this topic: Mosiah 4, Enos, 3Nephi 12:1-2, and one of my favorites, DC39:6. I don't think it is the same thing. Noel -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 7:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Isn't that what we seek when we take the Sacrament? Stacy. At 08:54 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: Before one's calling and election is made sure, one key step is remission of sins through the baptism of fire and the Holy Ghost. I would venture that few there are that have sought after and received this blessing that, according to 2 Nephi 31:17-18, is a requirement before you are solidly on the strait and narrow path which leads to eternal life King Benjamin talks about this in his last sermon also. What think ye? NB -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 5:40 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Most Peop I suppose I could make a list of what I think one ought to do to have one's calling and election made sure, but I think many people, including myself, would never be able to do it. What do I think it would take? 1. A testimony of the truthfulness of the Book of Mormon. 2. Belief and acceptance of Jesus Christ as God the Son, Messiah, Redeemer and a knowledge that He died for our sins. 3. Belief and acceptance of God the Father. 4. Belief and acceptance of God the Holy Spirit. 5. Belief and acceptance of the Articles of faith as duly constituted. 6. Belief and acceptance of Joseph Smith as first modern prophet and restitution of the gospel to the earth. 7. Belief and acceptance of all the rest of the Presidents of the church as prophets of God and heads of the modern church on earth. 8. Belief in the acknowledged and accepted doctrines of the church as officially constituted, unless God should point out error Himself. 9. Going beyond that, attendance at all pertinent meetings of the church in one's local area whenever possible. 10. Family loyalty unless doing so would violate church standards. 11. Love for family and friends. 12. Love for neighbors and strangers. 13. Love for enemies. 14. Obedience to the prophet and apostles, even in areas of hardship. 15. Loving every food that God has created? 16. It goes without saying that a person ought to be able to have a current temple recommend. 17. Daily study of every one of the Scriptures? 18. Daily prayer. 19. Integrity. 20. Repentance. I don't think this list has even scratched the surface and I've already fallen short. See what I mean? However, some things I am in doubt about I've put question marks on. Also points that could be mentioned concerning temple recommend requirements were left unsaid because I already indicated the person should have a temple recommend. Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure
Stacy Smith: All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. Larry Jackson: I believe it would take a successful temple marriage. Stacy: But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Larry: Someone could do a lot of the preparation there, I think. Stacy: Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? Larry: Not at all. Stacy: And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Larry: I don't think so. They would have to qualify for a temple marriage and be successful at it, I believe, before the additional blessings would be received. Larry Jackson The best thing to hit the internet in years - Juno SpeedBand! Surf the web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER! Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today! // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mo
Unfortunately, the reality is that I'd have to have a temple marriage first. I'm not sure I have a shot at that anymore but at least I'm hoping like all the others who have decided to gamble on a nonmember because they love them. Stacy. At 11:53 PM 07/12/2003 -0400, you wrote: I watched a special on the biblical David last night on PBS. (By the way, it was great to see Leonard Nimoy in the part of Samuel the prophet.) They took some of the spiritual insights out of the story but one item they did leave in was that God looks at the heart. It is by our heart that he judges us. Where is your heart? Are you willing to diligently seek him? Even in an apartment? That, I think, will make the difference. Noel -Original Message- From: Stacy Smith [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, July 12, 2003 8:46 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [ZION] Having One's Calling and Election Made Sure and the Fact that Mos All right. Let's get practical. If one hasn't the temple marriage one wants I suppose it's fruitless to even try for anything like this. But if one were to eventually get that and everything else being equal, how would someone do this in a modern setting? In an apartment? Do you mean to tell me one would have to go hunting, go to a remote region in the mountains, etc., to get it? And what about people who have been married civilly, then get divorced, etc.? Have they ever forfeited the chance to ever have a temple marriage and everything else? I have never been married and then divorced afterwards, but suppose I was? Do these things make it impossible? Stacy. // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / --- Incoming mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.489 / Virus Database: 288 - Release Date: 06/10/2003 // /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// / ==^ This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^
