--- "Edward W. Porter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> If bliss without intelligence is the goal of the machines you imaging
> running the world, for the cost of supporting one human they could
> probably keep at least 100 mice in equal bliss, so if they were driven to
> maximize bliss why wouldn't th
Matt,
Create a numeric "pleasure" variable in your mind, initialize it with
a positive number and then keep doubling it for some time. Done? How
do you feel? Not a big difference? Oh, keep doubling! ;-))
Regards,
Jiri Jelinek
On Nov 3, 2007 10:01 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> ---
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> Create a numeric "pleasure" variable in your mind, initialize it with
> a positive number and then keep doubling it for some time. Done? How
> do you feel? Not a big difference? Oh, keep doubling! ;-))
The point of autobliss.cpp is to illus
On 11/4/07, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Let's say your goal is to stimulate your nucleus accumbens. (Everyone has
> this goal; they just don't know it). The problem is that you would forgo
> food, water, and sleep until you died (we assume, from animal experiments).
We have no need
Matt,
We can compute behavior, but nothing indicates we can compute
feelings. Qualia research needed to figure out new platforms for
uploading.
Regards,
Jiri Jelinek
On Nov 4, 2007 1:15 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > Matt,
> >
> >
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> We can compute behavior, but nothing indicates we can compute
> feelings. Qualia research needed to figure out new platforms for
> uploading.
>
> Regards,
> Jiri Jelinek
Of course you realize that qualia is an illusion? You believe that y
>Of course you realize that qualia is an illusion? You believe that
your environment is real, believe that pain and pleasure are real,
"real" is meaningless. Perception depends on sensors and subsequent
sensation processing.
>believe that you can control your thoughts and actions,
I don't. Seems
I've often heard people say things like "qualia are an illusion" or
"consciousness is just an illusion", but the concept of an illusion
when applied to the mind is not very helpful, since all our thoughts
and perceptions could be considered as "illusions" reconstructed from
limited sensory data and
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >Of course you realize that qualia is an illusion? You believe that
> your environment is real, believe that pain and pleasure are real,
>
> "real" is meaningless. Perception depends on sensors and subsequent
> sensation processing.
Reality depends
Matt,
> > >believe that you can control your thoughts and actions,
> >
> > I don't. Seems unlikely.
> >
> > > and fear death
> >
> > Some people accept things they cannot (or don't know how to) change
> > without getting emotional.
> >
> > >because if you did not have these beliefs you would not p
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
> > > >But logically you know that your brain is just a machine, or else AGI
> would
> > > not be possible.
> > >
> > > I disagree with your logic because human brain does things AGI does
> > > not need to do AND the stuff the AGI needs to do doe
On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > We just need to control AGIs goal system.
>
> You can only control the goal system of the first iteration.
..and you can add rules for it's creations (e.g. stick with the same
goals/rules unless authorized otherwise)
> > > But
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > We just need to control AGIs goal system.
> >
> > You can only control the goal system of the first iteration.
>
>
> ..and you can add rules for it's creations (e.g. stick with t
Matt Mahoney wrote:
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We just need to control AGIs goal system.
You can only control the goal system of the first iteration.
..and you can add rules for it's creations (e.g. stick with
--- Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt Mahoney wrote:
> > --- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> We just need to control AGIs goal system.
> >>> You can only control the goal system of the firs
Matt Mahoney wrote:
--- Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Matt Mahoney wrote:
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We just need to control AGIs goal system.
You can only control the goal system of the first
Matt,
You algorithm is too complex.
What's the point of doing step 1?
Step 2 is sufficient.
Saturday, November 3, 2007, 8:01:45 PM, you wrote:
> So we can dispense with the complex steps of making a detailed copy of your
> brain and then have it transition into a degenerate state, and just skip
--- Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt Mahoney wrote:
> > --- Richard Loosemore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> >> Matt Mahoney wrote:
> >>> --- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >>>
> On Nov 11, 2007 5:39 PM, Matt Mahoney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> We just
Matt,
>autobliss passes tests for awareness of its inputs and responds as if it has
qualia. How is it fundamentally different from human awareness of pain and
pleasure, or is it just a matter of degree?
If your code has feelings it reports then reversing the order of the
feeling strings (without
Jiri:If your code has feelings it reports then reversing the order of the
feeling strings (without changing the logic) should magically turn its
pain into pleasure and vice versa, right?
The notions above - common in discussions here - are so badly in error.
*Codes don't have emotions.
*Compute
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> >autobliss passes tests for awareness of its inputs and responds as if it
> has
> qualia. How is it fundamentally different from human awareness of pain and
> pleasure, or is it just a matter of degree?
>
> If your code has feelings it re
Matt,
>Printing "ahh" or "ouch" is just for show. The important observation is that
the program changes its behavior in response to a reinforcement signal in the
same way that animals do.
Let me remind you that the problem we were originally discussing was
about qualia and uploading. Not just abo
ldren.
-Original Message-
From: Matt Mahoney [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Sunday, November 18, 2007 5:32 PM
To: agi@v2.listbox.com
Subject: Re: Introducing Autobliss 1.0 (was RE: [agi] Nirvana? Manyana?
Never!)
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> >
--- Jiri Jelinek <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Matt,
>
> >Printing "ahh" or "ouch" is just for show. The important observation is
> that
> the program changes its behavior in response to a reinforcement signal in
> the
> same way that animals do.
>
> Let me remind you that the problem we were ori
--- Gary Miller <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Too complicate things further.
>
> A small percentage of humans perceive pain as pleasure
> and prefer it at least in a sexual context or else
> fetishes like sadomachism would not exist.
>
> And they do in fact experience pain as a greater pleasure
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