Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

I'm not making these figures up. It was the only major discrepancy when we redid the numbers and caught us by surprise (William Stucke and I). We were not looking at numbers to support the Internet Shutdown policy but purely for research purposes for our ICANN DNS Africa study. Occam's razor - /Am

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Ali No one supports a shutdown but not supporting it does not mean using the wrong avenue to ensure it does not happen. Just like in any relationship, we only move forward if we respect each other. Any policy by an external organization seeking to put a sovereign government on notice is see

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Mark On 5/14/17, 11:48 AM, "Mark Elkins" wrote: > > >There was one glaring exception, Cameroon. > >November 2016: 63,023 > >May 2017: 31,801 > >That is, over the period of the Cameroon shutdown, the number of domains >registered under .CM decreased by more than 50% > >That

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

haahaaa, am not sure :-). But I guess to me 'legitimate aims' may vary country by country.  But most countries would define these legitimate aims around the 'National Security' umbrella. Which ties into the second point - is it covered/prescribed in law? So as long as the country has negotiated h

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi Walu, On 18/05/17 19:35, Walubengo J wrote: > a) The shutdown must serve legitimate aim > b) The shutdown is supported/established by (domestic or international) law How can Afrinic "measure" the legitimacy of an action? Afrinic cannot do the job of local courts I presume. In order to suppor

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

@Walu What, pray is *Legitimate Aim*'? :-) *Ali Hussein* *Principal* *Hussein & Associates* Tel: +254 713 601113 Twitter: @AliHKassim Skype: abu-jomo LinkedIn: http://ke.linkedin.com/in/alihkassim 13th Floor , Delta Towers, Oracle Wing, Chiromo Ro

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Those lawyers dealing Internet rights suggest that Internet rights could be violated only if the following three conditions apply: a) The shutdown must serve legitimate aimb) The shutdown is supported/established by (domestic or international) lawc) The shutdown is  necessary and proportionate. w

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi Ali, On 15/05/17 12:05, Ali Hussein wrote: > Protests are an expression of freedom of association and speech. Shutting > down the Internet because people are protesting is unjustified. The very > Governments that are elected by the people should be responsible to the > people. I can see wher

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Ish Protests are an expression of freedom of association and speech. Shutting down the Internet because people are protesting is unjustified. The very Governments that are elected by the people should be responsible to the people. I can see where in some extreme (really extreme) circumstances w

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi Ali, On 14/05/17 19:43, Ali Hussein wrote: > I've been following this discourse for a few days and I'm getting the feeling > that no one in the community is supporting a shut down right? I would not say no one is supporting a shutdown. The discussions on the RPD list prompted that some found

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi, Speaking for myself only. On May 12, 2017, 11:35 AM +0200, Tutu Ngcaba , wrote: > Only the Icann chairs is saying will support in that ripe video. That is NOT what Steve Crocker said. He said that _if_ someone submits a proposal to have a ccTLD removed as punishment for government action, t

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Ish, On May 12, 2017, 9:04 PM +0200, Ish Sookun , wrote: > On 12/05/17 13:33, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > > Only the Icann chairs is saying will support in that ripe video. But he is > > not aware of challenges like why internet is such reason behind like > > polical ones which is not technical. > Are yo

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

This is the second time that I will show my dissaproval of the text change proposed by Ish Sookun. For the same proposal again. Best Regards, Codarren On May 14, 2017 00:35, "Ish Sookun" wrote: > Hi Tutu, > > On 14/05/17 00:23, Tutu Ngcaba wrote: > > Now you find we technicians want to preten

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi, While I am ICANN's CTO, in this context I speak only for myself, but do so with a bit of background in creating and running a Regional Internet Registry and formerly being responsible for the IANA functions. I have hesitated to comment on this thread as I am not a resource holder in the Afr

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Mark Thanks for sharing. That Cameroon example is important. I've been following this discourse for a few days and I'm getting the feeling that no one in the community is supporting a shut down right? Or is there among us that do support a shut down? If we then all agree that an Internet S

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

With regard to the damage a shutdown can do: Many of you will know that I am part of a team who has put together a Paper on behalf of ICANN - the project which we call the African DNS Market Study. This includes getting ccTLD stats from all African countries. Because of the difficulty of getting r

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

2017-05-13 23:52 GMT+04:00 Boubakar Barry : > Sorry, but with all respect, should we waste more time on this? YES WE SHOULD. While AFRINIC policy may not be right tool for this work, and organisation who mission is "Spearhead Internet development in Africa" cannot keep silent. I like to see so

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Brother David Ok you meet with ICANN Steve please you tell him i am not understood him well in the beggining when i watch this video first time. I got the confused but got it when you explained to me. Sorry for my confusion in the begging. But i thank you for clarification now. But you know of

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

On 13/05/2017 21:52, Boubakar Barry wrote: > On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Ish Sookun > wrote: > > The debate seems to focus more on whether "this is our problem or not" > rather than improving the proposal to address the problem. > > > Sorry, but with all resp

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

On Sat, May 13, 2017 at 7:43 PM, Ish Sookun wrote: > The debate seems to focus more on whether "this is our problem or not" > rather than improving the proposal to address the problem. > Sorry, but with all respect, should we waste more time on this? Boubakar > > > > _

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi David, On 13/05/17 12:35, David Conrad wrote: > > What Steve Crocker said during the RIPE meeting was not wrong: ICANN is a > multi-stakeholder organization, the ccNSO would probably be the place a > policy about punishing governments by removing ccTLDs from the root would be > initiated, a

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi Arnaud, On 12/05/17 11:43, Arnaud AMELINA wrote: > > @Saul, I confirm that this shutdown policy is inappropriate on the PDP, it > is a real waste of time because other policies are on the PDP table and > nobody has yet reacted with them [...] If there are other policies on the PDP table to wh

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Hi Mirriam, On 11/05/17 22:23, Mirriam wrote: > I totally agree with what Badru has stated and I really hope the PDP update > policy proposal on the table before us can help to improve the Afrinic policy > development process and environment notwithstanding quality of work so as to > avoid such

Re: [Community-Discuss] [rpd] Controversial anti-shutdown policy discussed at RIPE

Brother David Conrad I thank you for a long email and explaination which i will 100% agree with you David. I will not respond now to btother Owen as you got idea i was about to say about government of our Africa which is angry at the Afrinic actionz and decide to punish ISP furthers which makes w