psuger wrote:
Dear colleagues,
I am a member of a lead user project planning to run real live RFID
use tests. This test intends to use the [RFC 5395] Private Use 0xFFF0,
65520 Class as "PERFID" (for Provisional Experimentation RFID) since
there is no Experimentation Classes assig
Dear colleagues,
I am a member of a lead user project planning to run real live RFID use
tests. This test intends to use the [RFC 5395] Private Use 0xFFF0, 65520
Class as "PERFID" (for Provisional Experimentation RFID) since there is no
Experimentation Classes assigned.
I wished to k
of life. There is a risk that the T-shirts may
contain chemicals you are allergic too, there is even a risk that
you could get mugged in Hiroshima (althought my personal estimate
is that you are about 100 times less likely to experience that as
compared to say, Chicago). The risk that (somehow) the
On Sep 14, 2009, at 12:41 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
It means that the data will be deleted at the end of the expiriment
once the analysis is done. Educated guess: within 30 days of the end
of the meeting, I know how busy the folkds running the meeting are.
The bluesheets, on the other hand, are
nd/or their sponsors) are not without
liability in today's unfortunately litigious world. By making the
results available, we have made some level of express or implied
warranty about those results. There may also be some liability toward
the experimental subjects (those of us with RFI
involved. And that is different from saying "it is an
experiment", "...help improve many operational and
privacy/security aspects of the experiment", without any signs
of being willing to entertain the null hypothesis of "maybe this
isn't a good idea without time an
--On Monday, September 14, 2009 10:06 -0400 Donald Eastlake
wrote:
> John,
>
> I can back most of your statement and the things you do but
> that below is just absolutely absurd.
>
> The RFID badge thing originated in the >HOST< not in IASA. It
> is entire
It means that the data will be deleted at the end of the expiriment
once the analysis is done. Educated guess: within 30 days of the end
of the meeting, I know how busy the folkds running the meeting are.
The bluesheets, on the other hand, are retained.
There is no need to retain this data onc
On Sep 10, 2009, at 3:23 PM, Ole Jacobsen wrote:
Data rentention
---
The data collected in this experiment will only be used for basic
statistical purposes. Since there is a blue-sheet component to this
experiment it will be useful to compare the real bluesheet data with
the electro
and note that non-sequential and unpredictable are not at all the
>>> same thing).
>>
>> So don't carry it. Or carry it in your faraday cage passport holder.
>
> Maybe we could do a test of this as part of the meeting. I often tell
> people that a metal lunch box
ent, but it might be good to see how
good they (plus the holders you can buy)
really are.
Also, since the RFID readers can be bought easily (they're probably at
Fry's), I would hope to hear of some good hack uses of this technology.
Regards
Marshall
I think it's fair to say th
Eric,
On Sep 13, 2009, at 11:09 PM, Eric Rescorla wrote:
As Richard and I have both indicated,
however, this system seems to have substantial residual privacy
risk, even if the identifiers are assigned completely unpredictably
(and note that non-sequential and unpredictable are not at all the
sa
Excerpts from Ole Jacobsen on Mon, Sep 14, 2009 12:05:25AM -0700:
> I suppose we could do what
> the Fastrak people did when they sent me the RFID gizmo for bridge
> tolls: They included a foil-lined bag and explained that the system
> was being used to monitor traffic (as well as c
Excerpts from Eric Rescorla on Sun, Sep 13, 2009 11:09:31PM -0700:
> At Sun, 13 Sep 2009 21:19:53 -0700 (PDT),
> Ole Jacobsen wrote:
> >
> >
> > Eric,
> >
> > The local hosts are reading the messages on this list and will take
> > appropriate steps including:
> >
> > * Not displaying the ID nu
a doofus).
>
> Okay, so that's not an example with too many negatives, unless
> JoeBob decides to sue us for making him look like a doofus.
>
> Now let's presume that some people remember (and that some other
> people don't remember) JoeBob being in the room duri
John,
I can back most of your statement and the things you do but that below
is just absolutely absurd.
The RFID badge thing originated in the >HOST< not in IASA. It is
entirely within normal facilities arrangement and negotiation to use
pre-existing badge arrangements, particularly where
Neither privacy/security nor discussion of such is being neglected or
discouraged. That's part of the experiment too.
Ole
Ole J. Jacobsen
Editor and Publisher, The Internet Protocol Journal
Cisco Systems
Tel: +1 408-527-8972 Mobile: +1 415-370-4628
E-mail: o...@cisco.com URL: http://www.cisc
I'm with Eric on this. Part of our dog food is a decent regard for
security and privacy; we shouldn't neglect in the name of
experimentation.
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
So far this has been an interesting experiment in trying to have an
experiment within the IETF culture.
___
Ietf mailing list
Ietf@ietf.org
https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/ietf
On Mon, Sep 14, 2009 at 12:05:25AM -0700,
Ole Jacobsen wrote
a message of 53 lines which said:
> I am sure the organizers never expected this amount of feedback
> either,
They don't know the IETF, then :-) They can expect a lot of feedback
on sushi and cookies, too.
> particularly not since
ical distance from reader to card is about
18 inches. In having these discussions we've probably highlighted a
number of *potential* risks much more than what the average credit
card or cell phone customer is informed of. I suppose we could do what
the Fastrak people did when they sent me the
not saying that the IETF can never experiment with anything
(e.g., a new brand of pen at registration) without going through this
kind of review, but given that there has historically been quite a bit
of concern about the about the privacy implications of this sort of
RFID tagging (see, for
ing.
I think it's a real stretch to link this to any BCP, RFC or IASA
founding document, but please don't read this as saying that your
questions aren't worth considering and/or answering. (But, as an
individual IAOC member I won't be doing that here).
Just to be clear, the I
this
type of RFID experiment is a policy matter. Another portion,
perhaps overlapping, believes that a version of the "eat our own
dogfood" principle says that we should set an example by
utilizing RFID only properly and with due consideration. Some
of that group believes that &q
ble Web sites.
>
> Well, I for one don't want people to know that I'm actually showing up for the
> first ten minutes of each meeting I chair, replacing myself with an inflatable
> dummy, and then going off to the bar. It would be revealing that I'm too
> stupi
Eric,
The local hosts are reading the messages on this list and will take
appropriate steps including:
* Not displaying the ID number <--> attendee mapping anywhere
* Not assigning numbers sequencially
Again, anyone may opt out, but this IS an experiment and it is
certainly hoped that people
This brings us to the question of the identifiers: it's certainly
true that systems which are anonymous but linkable offer a higher
level of privacy than those which do not. However, it's often
possible to determine which identifier a given person has
(e.g., by observing a specific persons card b
Eric Rescorla wrote:
> At Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT),
> Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>>
>> Inline.
>>
>> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>>
>>> At Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT),
>>>> * Each attendee will be issued an RF
showing up
for the first ten minutes of each meeting I chair, replacing myself
with an inflatable dummy, and then going off to the bar. It would be
revealing that I'm too stupid to remove my RFID tag and attach it to
the dummy, and that would be a blow to my professional credibility.
At Fri, 11 Sep 2009 07:57:02 -0700 (PDT),
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>
>
> Inline.
>
> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>
> > At Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT),
>
> > > * Each attendee will be issued an RFID card at the registration desk.
> &
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
I am also not sure what value there is in knowing that 3478273983421
spent 10 minutes in trill and then moved on to behave (pun intended).
To amplify, I'm not sure why the security risks of being tracked while
attending these meetings are considered so much greater than t
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
> Inline.
>
> On Fri, 11 Sep 2009, Eric Rescorla wrote:
>
>> At Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT),
>
>>> * Each attendee will be issued an RFID card at the registration desk.
>>> The information stored on the card is ONLY a nu
Inline.
On Fri, 11 Sep 2009, Eric Rescorla wrote:
> At Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT),
> > * Each attendee will be issued an RFID card at the registration desk.
> > The information stored on the card is ONLY a number, no personal
> > data is stored on the card
At Thu, 10 Sep 2009 12:23:31 -0700 (PDT),
Ole Jacobsen wrote:
>
>
> An Overview of the RFID Experiment for IETF 76 in Hiroshima.
>
>
> Some of the details are still being worked out, but here is a su
An Overview of the RFID Experiment for IETF 76 in Hiroshima.
Some of the details are still being worked out, but here is a summary:
Basics
--
* Each attendee will be issued an RFID card at the registration desk.
The
gt; To: sip; sipping; ietf@ietf.org; Omer Boyaci; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Subject: [Sipping] Names of People Encoded On RFID Cards
>
> Names of people attending SIP / SIPPING who requested before
> noon Saturday were encoded in NYC and handed to "Omer Boyaci"
> <[EM
Names of people attending SIP / SIPPING who requested before noon
Saturday were encoded in NYC and handed to "Omer Boyaci"
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>.
The names are located here : http://groups.google.com/group/ietfrfid/files
You dont need to login but if its inconvenient email me to request
status of y
We've thought about the blue sheet replacement, but wanted to start a
bit smaller and reduce the impact of failure. (With the current
experiment, presumably the worst-case outcome is no worse than what
we've had for the past 70+ IETFs, but losing blue sheet information
might make some lawye
On Nov 14, 2008, at 7:36 AM, Andrew G. Malis wrote:
I just added my name to the database. What I would REALLY like is to
just have my badge scanned when I enter a meeting room instead of
signing a blue sheet.
That would have required Henning and/or Athar to coordinate with the
Secretariat b
I just added my name to the database. What I would REALLY like is to
just have my badge scanned when I enter a meeting room instead of
signing a blue sheet.
Cheers,
Andy
On Thu, Nov 13, 2008 at 10:39 PM, Athar Shiraz Siddiqui
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dr. Henning has asked us to install a syst
Dr. Henning has asked us to install a system which will help
participants identify themselves with their name and affiliation.
If you want to know more about the raison d'être for the project
please view this presentation (see[1]).
Briefly: the purpose of the badge is to permit people (with names
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 02:42:19 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are so many Process Wonks in the IETF who feel it is their
sworn duty to yell "State your name please!"
I guess I am one of those process wonks.
In the PCN meeting last week, I was taking notes, a feed
Philip Guenther wrote:
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote:
...
I find it rather annoying to listen to the constant interruptions,
reminding people of the process. The only reasons for such an
interruption are:
...
2) you plan to base your opinion of the imminent comment on eithe
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote:
...
> I find it rather annoying to listen to the constant interruptions,
> reminding people of the process. The only reasons for such an
> interruption are:
...
> 2) you plan to base your opinion of the imminent comment on either
> who says it
> "Andy" == Andy Bierman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
Andy> I find it rather annoying to listen to the constant
Andy> interruptions, reminding people of the process. The only
Andy> reasons for such an interruption are:
Andy> 1) it is very important to you that detailed and ac
age-
> From: Marshall Eubanks [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 8:49 PM
> To: Andy Bierman
> Cc: ietf@ietf.org; Jeffrey Hutzelman
> Subject: Re: RFID
>
> Speaking as a frequent scribe, I consider it good manners for
> speakers to identify themselves,
Speaking as a frequent scribe, I consider it good manners for
speakers to identify themselves, even
if they are well known.
Regards
Marshall
On Mar 27, 2007, at 8:10 PM, Andy Bierman wrote:
Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 03:51:56 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED
Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 03:51:56 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonk_%28slang%29
According to wikipedia, a policy wonk is
someone knowledgeable about and fascinated by details of government
policy and programs
If t
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 03:51:56 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wonk_%28slang%29
According to wikipedia, a policy wonk is
someone knowledgeable about and fascinated by details of government
policy and programs
If that is derogatory then I'm
Jeffrey Hutzelman wrote:
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 02:42:19 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are so many Process Wonks in the IETF who feel it
is their sworn duty to yell "State your name please!"
I think it's unfair to call people who do that "process wonks" or any
On Tuesday, March 27, 2007 02:42:19 PM -0700 Andy Bierman
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
There are so many Process Wonks in the IETF who feel it
is their sworn duty to yell "State your name please!"
I think it's unfair to call people who do that "process wonks" or any other
derogatory term.
Schliesser, Benson wrote:
Eric-
It sounds like your argument is: "We're too incompetent to say our names
at the mic, so we're probably too incompetent to use a RFID system."
Did I get that right?
This sounds like a Rube Goldberg joke, not a serious thread.
Could we
Steven M. Bellovin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> "Schliesser, Benson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > On the other hand, I am amused by your idea of scanning the streets
> > for RFID responses that look like IETF-badges. Then my robot army
> > could t
On Tue, 27 Mar 2007 11:27:29 -0500
"Schliesser, Benson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Eric-
>
> It sounds like your argument is: "We're too incompetent to say our
> names at the mic, so we're probably too incompetent to use a RFID
> system."
Eric-
It sounds like your argument is: "We're too incompetent to say our names
at the mic, so we're probably too incompetent to use a RFID system."
Did I get that right?
While I'm certainly not going to defend the competence of every IETF
participant, I don't fi
arify.
Cheers,
-Benson
From: Eric Gray (LO/EUS) [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 5:49 PM
To: Schliesser, Benson
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: RFID (was: identifying yourself at th
fore
even thinking to use them at a movable feast like the IETF.
From: Andrew G. Malis [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 10:55 AM
To: David Morris
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: RFID (was: identifying y
csson
From: Schliesser, Benson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2007 12:27 PM
To: Eric Gray (LO/EUS)
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: RE: RFID (was: identifying yourself at the mic)
Importance: High
the tendency to forget to identify yourself at the
mike.
So, we get a nice RFID protective wallet and - remembering how
absent
minded we are - we keep our name tags (with all of our other RFID
badges,
and passes) in that protective wallet.
As a result, unless you need to get it out to get
Eric,
Why not? We each already receive a unique identifier when we register for
the meeting - all the RFID tag needs to contain is that identifier, no
personal info is required.
There could also be an opt-in locator service to let other attendees look up
what meeting room you're in at that
Morris
Cc: ietf@ietf.org
Subject: RFID (was: identifying yourself at the mic)
RFID would be a great way to replace the blue sheets as well -
put an RFID reader at the door of each meeting room. Embed the chip in
the name tag so you don't need to rem
RFID would be a great way to replace the blue sheets as well - put an RFID
reader at the door of each meeting room. Embed the chip in the name tag so
you don't need to remember to bring anything else from your hotel room in
the morning.
Cheers,
Andy
On Mon, 26 Mar 2007, Schliesser, B
Daniel,
I wasn't at the BoF so if I understand your question correctly, ZigBee
and RFID are very different solutions for very different applications -
remote monitoring, control, sensory applications vs. automatic
identification (at the highest level). As such, the standardization
aroun
In 61st IETF meeting, a new BOF as IPv6 over 802.15.4 (ZigBee)
was
held and many guys were of interest. I am wondering of what explicit
issues are available arounding RFID against previous work.
Please let me know it if I am missing anything.--- Original Message ---Sender : Scott
I'm writing to announce the opening of the [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailing
list as the next step towards the formation of an IETF Working Group
that would develop open standards for scalable, multi(air)-protocol
Radio Frequency Identification (RFID) reader control and data
acquisition opera
On Thu, 2003-11-20 at 10:52, Richard Shockey wrote:
> EPCglobal is focusing on the standards though I suspect there are aspects
> of the protocols being discussed that should come to the IETF or IEEE for
> proper peer review and/or standardization. There is an extensive discussion
> of the use o
At 08:45 AM 11/20/2003, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Besides what Bill Manning said about reviewing
what's been done in the auto-id center (now closed),
there are a number of research projects/initiatives
around the world (e.g., Japan's ubiquitous id center at
uidcenter.org). For a list of some relate
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