On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 18:20 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> >> Who said anything about requiring users to "SysAdmin type things"? I
> >> never did.
> >
> > You said:
> >
> > "Meanwhile, storing network passwords in a place that only root/NM
> > can get to it?"
> >
> > I interpreted that as requiring
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 18:20 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> >> Because I don't want my kerberos password cached.. Anywhere.. Anytime.
> >
> > What is the threat, exactly? Laptop theft? In that case, since the
> > password is only cached in memory, as
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>> Because I don't want my kerberos password cached.. Anywhere.. Anytime.
>
> What is the threat, exactly? Laptop theft? In that case, since the
> password is only cached in memory, as soon the thief reboots the laptop,
> the password is gone. Note al
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 13:55 -0400, warlord wrote:
Not having network is by
far the exception, not the rule, so IMHO life should be optimized
for dealing
with the common (have network) case.
Are you from another planet, and can I live there? :)
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 13:55 -0400, warlord wrote:
> Not having network is by
> far the exception, not the rule, so IMHO life should be optimized for dealing
> with the common (have network) case.
Are you from another planet, and can I live there? :)
Seriously...while always-available network ma
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:55 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> > no offense intended, but I still disagree with that design choice. It
> > means you
> > cannot use NM in a situation where you have wireless network and
> > network-based
> > logi
Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Note that I'm really only considering user/desktop apps here. We
shouldn't expect server stuff like Apache to assume no network, since
the whole point of Apache is that there _is_ a network to serve stuff
to. But if somebody has a laptop that's alway
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 10:14 -0400, warlord wrote:
> Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:27 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> >> Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> >>
> >> > Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
> >>
> >> Having to type their pas
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 12:58 -0400, warlord wrote:
> Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> >> Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
> >> race condition between login and network startup?
>
> You ignored this issue...
I ignored it because Dan answered it: all appli
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 10:14 -0400, warlord wrote:
> Dan, you keep conflating two issues which are not the same. You seem to be
> confusing "network exists at startup" from "network changes from under
> you". I'm concerned about the former, you seem to talking about the
> latter.
I would confla
Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:27 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
Having to type their password first?
Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
rac
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
race condition between login and network startup?
You ignored this issue...
Caching credentials is a HARD problem. How is PAM supposed to
know my kerberos password, unless it stores it s
2005/7/26, Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 03:05 +0200, Sebastien ESTIENNE wrote:
> > D
> > I also need it for other reasons than kerberos:
> > - i can't acces my samba shares until i log in, using my laptops as
> > mobile file server, sometimes i expect to just power it
On Tue, 2005-07-26 at 03:05 +0200, Sebastien ESTIENNE wrote:
> D
> I also need it for other reasons than kerberos:
> - i can't acces my samba shares until i log in, using my laptops as
> mobile file server, sometimes i expect to just power it on and be able
> to acces my files.
> - the same for a
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:27 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
>
> Having to type their password first?
Not necessarily:
> Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
> race condition
Robert Love wrote:
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
IMNSHO it would be much better to store this information globally so that NM can
choose from pre-defined networks before the user is logged in. This certainly
works fine for WEP or unprotected networks, and even for
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:27 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
>
> Having to type their password first?
> Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
> race condition between login and n
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 18:15 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> I think something like this would work.. But how would one configure the
> "available" or "preferred" networks in the nobody context? Provided there is
> some way for a user to push this list of networks/keys into the nobody context
> I have
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 20:27 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
>
> > Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
>
> Having to type their password first?
> Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
> race condition between login and n
Nobody?
Rgds,
Joris
>
> 1.) Is there a possibility to make networkmanager connect from
> commande-line?
>
> 2.) My nm-applet only show "Disconnect VPN..." in the "VPN Connections"
> menu. Is there something special to configure to create a new VPN
> connection?
>
> Regards,
> Joris
>
> __
Derek Atkins wrote:
Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
- when someone logs in the nm-applet managed by gdm goes away and is
replaced with the nm-applet in the user session (this, similar schemes
for e.g. fast-user-switching).
As we've talked about before, something like this would be
Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes:
> Seriously, what's the difference to the end user?
Having to type their password first?
Having to restart gaim or psi or other apps because there's a
race condition between login and network startup?
> As far as technical implementation I don't see usi
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 18:30 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > > > Why does it matter whether the credentials are "real" or cached?
> > >
> > > Because cached credentials probably don't work on the net because they've
> > > expired?
> >
> > In this mode
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > > Why does it matter whether the credentials are "real" or cached?
> >
> > Because cached credentials probably don't work on the net because they've
> > expired?
>
> In this model you get a new Kerberos ticket when the network becomes
> available (a
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 18:08 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:57 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> >
> > > but I shouldn't have to use cached credentials -- I can acquire real
> > credentials
> > > if I were just on the network. I d
Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > - when someone logs in the nm-applet managed by gdm goes away and is
> > replaced with the nm-applet in the user session (this, similar schemes
> > for e.g. fast-user-switching).
>
> As we've talked about before, something like this would be completel
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:57 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
>
> > but I shouldn't have to use cached credentials -- I can acquire real
> credentials
> > if I were just on the network. I don't need to use PAM cached creds in
> this
> > situation. I just ne
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:55 -0400, David Zeuthen wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> > no offense intended, but I still disagree with that design choice. It
> > means you
> > cannot use NM in a situation where you have wireless network and
> > network-based
> > logi
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:57 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> but I shouldn't have to use cached credentials -- I can acquire real
> credentials
> if I were just on the network. I don't need to use PAM cached creds in this
> situation. I just need IP before login.
Why does it matter whether the cre
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> > Actually, that's not true at all. I could be in any of a dozen different
> > buildings at MIT, at my house, at Usenix or IETF or some other conference
> --
>
> Yep, NetworkManager rocks for this.
Except it wont bring me up on the network until I'm
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> no offense intended, but I still disagree with that design choice. It means
> you
> cannot use NM in a situation where you have wireless network and network-based
> login (e.g. Kerberos/Hesiod, NIS, etc). In the current design you have to
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:36 -0400, Colin Walters wrote:
> A while ago some Fedora hackers were working on "cached credentials" for
> PAM; the idea is that when you logged in, the credentials would be
> cached locally, so that if you were ever away from the network, you
> could still log in. I'm n
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:41 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
> If its broken, hopefully it won't be saying that it's got a link. If it
> does, then we get to play the "how can I disable you system-wide" game.
> Either BIOS or knock it out of HAL somehow. NM should allow you to use
> what HAL provides.
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:17 -0400, Robert Love wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:14 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > Intended. If you wanted a wireless network, why would you have a cable
> > plugged in? If you want a wireless network, why are you docked and why
> > does the docking station have
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:24 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > If you're using network login, your computer is tied specifically to
> > that network; you can't switch networks, which invalidates a lot of the
> > point of NetworkManager as it is today. Fo
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > All the wireless keys, preferred network, and which networks you're
> > actually allowed to connect to are stored per-user, as designed, and
> > also as designed, NetworkManager won't attempt t
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:24 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Moreover, I have a bunch of network services that don't like to startup
> without
> network. Even now I have to restart ntpd, sendmail, and athena-zhm by hand..
> And I don't even want to think about the hell that OpenAFS would be! It's
Quoting Colin Walters <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> If you're using network login, your computer is tied specifically to
> that network; you can't switch networks, which invalidates a lot of the
> point of NetworkManager as it is today. For the short term you could
> just use your OS native wireless net
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:16 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> For a standard WEP key I see no reason to keep it per-user. If you're sharing
> your machine with multiple people you're generally sharing your network, too.
It might not be "my" network. It might be my office versus my
girlfriend's borde
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
>
> > All the wireless keys, preferred network, and which networks you're
> > actually allowed to connect to are stored per-user, as designed, and
> > also as designed, NetworkManager won't attempt t
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:14 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
> Intended. If you wanted a wireless network, why would you have a cable
> plugged in? If you want a wireless network, why are you docked and why
> does the docking station have a cable plugged in?
Say if my Ethernet is broken or on a diffe
Quoting Robert Love <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
>
> > IMNSHO it would be much better to store this information globally so that
> NM can
> > choose from pre-defined networks before the user is logged in. This
> certainly
> > works fine for WEP or
On 7/25/05, Robert Love <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
>
> > IMNSHO it would be much better to store this information globally so that
> > NM can
> > choose from pre-defined networks before the user is logged in. This
> > certainly
> > works
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 17:05 -0400, Robert Love wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:57 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
>
> > I've had it fail in weird cases sometimes. I've even had it get into a
> > situation where it wouldn't do wired or wireless, and the applet was
> > completely
> > ineffective in d
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:54 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> IMNSHO it would be much better to store this information globally so that NM
> can
> choose from pre-defined networks before the user is logged in. This certainly
> works fine for WEP or unprotected networks, and even for shared-key WPA
>
Quoting Robert Love <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> Tangentially, I have a somewhat similar problem where NM won't let me
> override its decision: if I am on wired and select a wireless network,
> it will switch to the wireless network but moments later switch back to
> wired.
Yea.. I also can't seem to
Quoting Dan Williams <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> All the wireless keys, preferred network, and which networks you're
> actually allowed to connect to are stored per-user, as designed, and
> also as designed, NetworkManager won't attempt to connect to a wireless
> network without that data since it coul
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:57 -0400, Derek Atkins wrote:
> I've had it fail in weird cases sometimes. I've even had it get into a
> situation where it wouldn't do wired or wireless, and the applet was
> completely
> ineffective in doing anything. A reboot cleared that up, but I think there's
> so
Quoting Robert Love <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:45 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > Yeah, I wasn't sure about it. I just tested it though, and it worked
> > for me. The only thing that would make NM _not_ do it is if it doesn't
> > know that your wired interface is up, I thi
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:45 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
> Yeah, I wasn't sure about it. I just tested it though, and it worked
> for me. The only thing that would make NM _not_ do it is if it doesn't
> know that your wired interface is up, I think? Feel free to investigate
> if you like. As I s
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 15:35 -0500, Steev wrote:
> -BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
> Hash: SHA1
>
> Joris Vuffray wrote:
> > I just want to have NetworkManager initiate the connection b4 I login in
> > gdm.
> >
> >
> >
> > I have vpnc installed and the two nm-vpnc-service* installed
> > in /u
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:36 -0400, Robert Love wrote:
> On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:32 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
>
> > This isn't something we really support right now, since
> > nm-applet/NetworkManagerInfo aren't running before you log in, therefore
> > NetworkManager cannot know stored preference
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 16:32 -0400, Dan Williams wrote:
> This isn't something we really support right now, since
> nm-applet/NetworkManagerInfo aren't running before you log in, therefore
> NetworkManager cannot know stored preferences and other per-user config
> information. If you have an Ether
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
Joris Vuffray wrote:
> I just want to have NetworkManager initiate the connection b4 I login in
> gdm.
>
>
>
> I have vpnc installed and the two nm-vpnc-service* installed
> in /usr/bin. ("Disconnect VPN..." is not highlighted).
> It should be a bug
Forwarded Message
> > > > From: Joris Vuffray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > > To: networkmanager-list@gnome.org
> > > > Subject: 2 questions...
> > > > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:39:0
TECTED]>
> > > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > > To: networkmanager-list@gnome.org
> > > Subject: 2 questions...
> > > Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:39:03 +0200
> > >
> > > 1.) Is there a possibility to make networkmanager connect from
> > > comma
On Mon, 2005-07-25 at 21:59 +0200, Joris Vuffray wrote:
> Nobody?
>
> Rgds,
> Joris
>
> Forwarded Message
> > From: Joris Vuffray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > To: networkmanager-list@gnome.org
> > Subje
Nobody?
Rgds,
Joris
Forwarded Message
> From: Joris Vuffray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: networkmanager-list@gnome.org
> Subject: 2 questions...
> Date: Sat, 16 Jul 2005 15:39:03 +0200
>
> 1.) Is there a possibility to
1.) Is there a possibility to make networkmanager connect from
commande-line?
2.) My nm-applet only show "Disconnect VPN..." in the "VPN Connections"
menu. Is there something special to configure to create a new VPN
connection?
Regards,
Joris
--
Joris Vuffray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
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