On Fri Apr 18 2014 at 5:03:33 PM, Ezio Melotti ezio.melo...@gmail.com
wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon
On 18.04.2014 23:03, Ezio Melotti wrote:
Hi,
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon wrote:
Now the question is whether the
Hi,
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 9:09 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon wrote:
Now the question is whether the maintenance cost of having to rebuild
Python
On Wed Apr 16 2014 at 4:53:25 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:57:35 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu
mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
PS. In the user process sys.modules, there are numerous null
entries like these:
Hi.
On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon wrote:
Now the question is whether the maintenance cost of having to rebuild
Python for a select number of stdlib modules is enough to warrant
putting in the effort to make this work.
I would really love to have better startup times in production, but
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
I would really love to have better startup times in production,
What's your use case? I understand why startup time is important for Hg,
but I'd like to understand what other situations occur frequently
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On 14.4.2014. 23:51, Brett Cannon wrote:
Now the question is whether the maintenance cost of having to rebuild
Python for a select number of stdlib modules is enough to warrant
putting in the
I think he meant modifying the source files themselves for debugging
purposes (e.g. putting print statements in itertools.py).
2014-04-17 14:09 GMT-04:00 Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 1:34:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:09:22 +
Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
I would really love to have better startup times in production, but I
would also really hate to lose the ability to hack around in stdlib
sources during development just to get better startup performance.
In
I still do that!
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:17 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.netwrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:09:22 +
Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
I would really love to have better startup times in production, but
I
would also really hate to lose the ability to
Hi.
On 17.4.2014. 20:15, Mark Young wrote:
I think he meant modifying the source files themselves for debugging
purposes (e.g. putting print statements in itertools.py).
Exactly! :-)
Best regards,
Jurko Gospodnetić
___
Python-Dev
On 04/17/2014 10:33 AM, Jurko Gospodnetić wrote:
In general, what I really like about using Python for software development
is the ability to open any stdlib file and
easily go poking around using stuff like 'import pdb;pdb.set_trace()' or simple
print statements.
+1
--
~Ethan~
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 8:17 PM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
On Thu, 17 Apr 2014 18:09:22 +
Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
I would really love to have better startup times in production, but
I
would also really hate to lose the ability to hack around in
Hi.
On 17.4.2014. 19:57, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr mailto:jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
I would really love to have better startup times in production,
What's your use case? I understand why startup time is
I'm sorry to keep asking dumb questions, but your description didn't job my
understanding of what you are comparing here. What is slower than what?
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 11:47 AM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up the
On Apr 17, 2014, at 2:23 PM, Jurko Gospodnetić jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
Hi.
On 17.4.2014. 19:57, Guido van Rossum wrote:
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 10:33 AM, Jurko Gospodnetić
jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr mailto:jurko.gospodne...@pke.hr wrote:
I would really love to have better
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 3:21:49 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
I'm sorry to keep asking dumb questions, but your description didn't job
my understanding of what you are comparing here. What is slower than what?
Startup where the stdlib is entirely in a zip file is slower than the
On Thu, Apr 17, 2014 at 1:31 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 3:21:49 PM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org
wrote:
I'm sorry to keep asking dumb questions, but your description didn't job
my understanding of what you are comparing here. What is slower than
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon:
Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up
the interpreter to include a sys.path entry for ./python35.zip instead
of hard-coding to /usr/lib/python35.zip and simply zipped up Lib/
recursively. TL;DR, zipimport performance no
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon:
Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up
the interpreter to include a sys.path entry for ./python35.zip instead
of hard-coding to /usr/lib/python35.zip and simply zipped up Lib/
recursively. TL;DR, zipimport performance no
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 5:21:14 PM, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de
wrote:
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon:
Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of hacking up
the interpreter to include a sys.path entry for ./python35.zip instead
of hard-coding to
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-
Hash: SHA1
On 04/17/2014 06:06 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
On Thu Apr 17 2014 at 5:21:14 PM, Martin v. Löwis
mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Am 17.04.14 20:47, schrieb Brett Cannon:
Because people keep bringing it up, below is the results of
hacking up the
Am 14.04.14 23:51, schrieb Brett Cannon:
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we
could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or
read them from disk.
[...]
Thoughts?
They still get read from disk, except that it is the operating system
On 4/16/2014 12:25 PM, Martin v. Löwis wrote:
Am 14.04.14 23:51, schrieb Brett Cannon:
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we
could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or
read them from disk.
[...]
Thoughts?
They still get read from
Is this Python 2 or 3? In Python 2 it means an attempt to perform a
relative import failed but an absolute in succeeded, e.g. from idlelib you
imported os, so import tried idlelib.is and then os. You should definitely
consider using a future import to guarantee absolute imports.
On Wednesday,
On 16 April 2014 12:25, Martin v. Löwis mar...@v.loewis.de wrote:
Am 14.04.14 23:51, schrieb Brett Cannon:
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we
could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or
read them from disk.
[...]
Thoughts?
They
On Wednesday, April 16, 2014 2:57:35 PM, Terry Reedy tjre...@udel.edu
mailto:tjre...@udel.edu wrote:
PS. In the user process sys.modules, there are numerous null
entries like these:
sys.modules['idlelib.os']
sys.modules['idlelib.tokenize'__]
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
In my work environment (Python 2.7.2, all the heavy lifting done in
C++), startup costs are dominated by dynamic linking of all our C++
libraries and their Boost wrappers:
Sure, but not everyone uses Boost or has long
On 14 Apr 2014 18:37, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.com wrote:
On 4/14/2014 2:51 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Freezing everything except encodings.__init__, os, and _sysconfigdata,
I suppose these are omitted because they can vary in different
environments?
But isn't Python built for a
On 15.04.2014 09:45, Chris Angelico wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 8:21 AM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
In my work environment (Python 2.7.2, all the heavy lifting done in
C++), startup costs are dominated by dynamic linking of all our C++
libraries and their Boost wrappers:
Sure,
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 3:51 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we could
now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or read them
from disk. So for day 1 of the sprints I I decided to hack up a
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Specific use-case that I can see: Mercurial. In a git vs hg shoot-out,
git will usually win on performance, and hg is using Py2; migrating hg
to Py3 will (if I understand the above figures correctly) widen that
gap, so any
IIRC it is no longer the case that ZIP imports (involving only one
file for a lot of modules) are much faster than regular FS imports?
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 10:34 AM, Eric Snow ericsnowcurren...@gmail.com wrote:
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 1:45 AM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
Specific
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 11:19 AM, Daniel Holth dho...@gmail.com wrote:
IIRC it is no longer the case that ZIP imports (involving only one
file for a lot of modules) are much faster than regular FS imports?
It's definitely minimized since Python 3.3 and the caching of stat results
at the
Le 15/04/2014 09:45, Chris Angelico a écrit :
Specific use-case that I can see: Mercurial. In a git vs hg shoot-out,
git will usually win on performance, and hg is using Py2;
Keep in mind those shoot-outs usually rely on large repositories and/or
non-trivial operations, so startup time is
Le 14/04/2014 23:51, Brett Cannon a écrit :
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we
could now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or
read them from disk. So for day 1 of the sprints I I decided to hack up
a proof-of-concept to see what kind of
On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 2:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net wrote:
Le 15/04/2014 09:45, Chris Angelico a écrit :
Specific use-case that I can see: Mercurial. In a git vs hg shoot-out,
git will usually win on performance, and hg is using Py2;
Keep in mind those shoot-outs usually
Can we please stop the argument about Hg vs. Git?
On Tue, Apr 15, 2014 at 12:54 PM, Chris Angelico ros...@gmail.com wrote:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 2:40 AM, Antoine Pitrou solip...@pitrou.net
wrote:
Le 15/04/2014 09:45, Chris Angelico a écrit :
Specific use-case that I can see:
On Wed, Apr 16, 2014 at 4:54 AM, Guido van Rossum gu...@python.org wrote:
Can we please stop the argument about Hg vs. Git?
My apologies. All I was saying was that hg is a use case where startup
performance really does matter, as opposed to the ones presented
earlier in the thread where a
Brett Cannon, 14.04.2014 23:51:
It was realized during PyCon that since we are freezing importlib we could
now consider freezing all the modules to cut out having to stat or read
them from disk. So for day 1 of the sprints I I decided to hack up a
proof-of-concept to see what kind of
On 4/14/2014 2:51 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
consider freezing all the modules
...
Now the question is whether the maintenance cost of having to rebuild
Python for a select number of stdlib modules
all versus select number.
So I'm guessing the proposal is to freeze all the modules that Python
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
Interesting idea, but YAGNI?
In my work environment (Python 2.7.2, all the heavy lifting done in
C++), startup costs are dominated by dynamic linking of all our C++
libraries and their Boost wrappers:
% time
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:15 PM, Skip Montanaro s...@pobox.com wrote:
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 4:51 PM, Brett Cannon bcan...@gmail.com wrote:
Thoughts?
Interesting idea, but YAGNI?
Not at all. Think of every script you execute that's written in Python. One
of the things the Mercurial folks
On Mon, Apr 14, 2014 at 6:07 PM, Glenn Linderman v+pyt...@g.nevcal.comwrote:
On 4/14/2014 2:51 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
consider freezing all the modules
...
Now the question is whether the maintenance cost of having to rebuild
Python for a select number of stdlib modules
all versus
On 4/14/2014 2:51 PM, Brett Cannon wrote:
Freezing everything except encodings.__init__, os, and _sysconfigdata,
I suppose these are omitted because they can vary in different environments?
But isn't Python built for a particular environment... seems like os
could be included?
Seems like
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