of HP or
Agilent.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Mike Feher wrote:
> ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
> Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
>
>
> I could not find the HP 10811A oscillator manual on the Agilent web site.
> Obviously I am doing some thing wrong. I do have an original of
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
Gold mixes with solder to from an "intermetallic" that
suffers from "embrittlement". I am not aware of silver
solder being a remedy. I have heard of assembly lines
that do not allow any gold whatsoever in the building!
I heard
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
E1938A phase noise should be similar to 10811,
possibly even a little better far out.
Short term stability should be similar to 10811
except down around 1 second, where the AFC circuit
degrades it a little to 10^11 or so.
The
); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
Errors-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] RETRY
I have sent all my E1938A documentation to Brooke Clarke.
He will be posting it.
Regarding pinout: I sent him a really definitive pinout
diagram consisting of a photograph of the top and bottom
of the board with red arrows poi
han cesium.
Ask someone else about H masers and homebrewing. Don't know much
about those. They seem "simple" to me, as an ignorant bystander.
Rick Karlquist
michael taylor wrote:
> ); SAEximRunCond expanded to false
> Errors-To:
> [EMAIL PROTECTED]
>
> Has the
e control loop would respond to this within its time constant.
So, admittedly, you might have a temporary frequency shift.
However, there is no known application where a clock needs
to work upside down, so even Len couldn't justify worrying about this.
I hope this clears up any confusion about t
mind that ECO's can be and often are applied
to products without incrementing the suffix. The chances
are like you said, some component went obsolete, and they
needed to do a lifetime buy, etc.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
11729 without an 8662? It's not like you
can
feed any old 640 MHz reference into it.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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vailable anyway.
This has nothing to do with "setting" the 5071A to the
correct frequency.
I hope this clears up any confusion.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Member 5071A design team
and 10816A Rubidium design team
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I have the JPL zero crossing detector paper scanned in.
(John Dick, et al, 1990 PTTI). It is definitely a must
read.
Do you want me to email to you?
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Peter Vince
> Sen
I have now read all email regarding the oscillator
distribution. It appears there are nearly 3 times
as many requests as oscillators. I will be
implementing a selection process soon, and get back
to you at that time.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PRO
I would like to ship to only USA addresses.
Can you provide a USA shipping address?
Rick Karlquist, N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Dr Bruce Griffiths
> Sent: Friday, May 25, 2007 5:53 PM
> To: Discussion of p
decide who does or does not get a FREE
oscillator for any reason or no reason.
Again, thank you for your patience.
Rick Karlquist
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Bill Beam
> Sent: Friday, June 15, 2007 12:26 AM
> To
homes
for the rest of them. Thank you for being patient.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Bill Beam
> Sent: Thursday, June 14, 2007 1:42 PM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
I don't buy this theory. The 5061 has very extensive magnetic
shielding and any solar disturbance would have to be enough
to spin compass needles before it could possibly affect the
accuracy.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAI
ll surface on the surplus
market. It's not like the 37 I have are the only ones
in existence.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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The 10514/34 design is nothing remarkable. You could
build a considerably better design with currently
available technology. You would have difficulty copying the
design due to the legacy parts used.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:
.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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nventing the wheel?
>
> Google for E1938A, what else ;-)
> http://www.leapsecond.com/museum/e1938a/
>
> > I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
> > wants one. They are in "worked the last time it
> > was turned on, but no guarantee of specs" co
> I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
> wants one. They are in "worked the last time it
> was turned on, but no guarantee of specs" condition.
> I can't accept money for these units.
>
> Rick Karlquist N6RK
> E1938A circuit designer
Due to
wheel?
I still have dozens of surplus E1938A's if anyone
wants one. They are in "worked the last time it
was turned on, but no guarantee of specs" condition.
I can't accept money for these units.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
E1938A circuit designer
> -Original Message-
&g
different times in an
attempt to solve metastability w/o giving up a clock period. This
is unlikely to work well. You need one long settling period, not
a bunch of short ones.
Rick Karlquist
Peter Vince wrote:
> Bruce, et al,
>
> "Metastability" was mentioned again r
To pass the hammer blow test, the unit has to still function
electrically after the blow. It is OK if it suffers structural
damage as long as it still works.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> OK, the DUT is sitting on a big steel table and the hammer hits the
> table not the piece, but still...you
You're thinking of the 5062 that fits into the hatch
of a submarine (a 5061 won't). The test is called
the "hammer blow" test.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Magnus Danielson wrote:
> From: "Rick Karlquist" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] Questio
That project made it as far as a pilot run of a half dozen
working prototypes and assignment of a model number, but HP never
sold any of them. I still have one of these "valuable"
collector's items :-)
You probably never heard of the HP 5063
cesium either, but that's an
own a Rb plasma lamp.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Tom Van Baak wrote:
>> Having worked on the HP 10816A rubidium clock 25 years ago,
>> it is hard for my to believe the lamp alone could last 56
>> years on the average. Even ordinary light bulbs don't last
>> that long.
>>
Having worked on the HP 10816A rubidium clock 25 years ago,
it is hard for my to believe the lamp alone could last 56
years on the average. Even ordinary light bulbs don't last
that long.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 3/16/2007 18:32:58 Pacif
because of the high temperatures involved.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Jack Hudler wrote:
> It seems to me that like all good things they must come to and end.
>
> If all CBTs have a life expectancy that varies depending on the
> manufacturer.
>
> What are we going to do when all the CB
ly by 5: been there, done that, got the coffee
mug and T-shirt. Don't do this at home kids.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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ution. We didn't give this up until the 53181 came
out. It can do an honest 12 digits thanks to our FPGA
wizard Eric. It would be unreasonable to expect the '34 to
be able to match that.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> In a message dated 2/22/2007 23:15:
unter, move up to the 53181 which
is much more modern, even being 15 years old.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
R&D Project Manager of 5334B (circa 1986)
Hal Murray wrote:
> (Interesting timing given the SR620 discussion.)
>
> I'm (finally) getting my GPIB gizmo working.
>
> I have a H
ly to make it stiffer. There
is probably little or no chance of damaging the
oscillator, so you might as well try it and see what
happens.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jason Rabel
> Sent: Saturday,
is certain that a leak
would lower the Q of the crystal. It could possibly
affect the frequency, especially if contaminants get
inside. Any frequency shift from this would be to the
low side.
Hope that clears up some of the questions.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
_
You need a parallel resonant crystal (~20 pF) at 10 MHz.
If you get a series resonant one, it will be high in frequency
in the 10811.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Scott Newell wrote:
> At 03:45 PM 2/2/2007 -0500, Mark Amos wrote:
>>
>>Now I know that it won't be as stable as the o
It would help if you spelled his name Vig.
It should be posted on the IEEE UFFC site under tutorials.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Rob Kimberley wrote:
> Can anyone point me to a link where I might get a copy of John Vigg's
> excellent application note on oscillators? I had a copy some years
crystal assembly. The pins are not coated; that would
prevent welding.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Jack Hudler wrote:
> If you clean it then any solder (63/37) will do.
>
> Could they have coated the leads?
>
> The thermal properties and CTE of Beryllium copper are not unknown to
concern that the heat of
soldering to the pins wasn't good for the crystal.
If you are going to solder, watch the heat.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Message-
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Jim Palfreyman
> Sent: Tuesday, January 23,
ground wire to the board.
The wires are welded to the crystal, so if you want to
disconnect one of them, you have to unsolder it from the
PC board.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Jack Hudler wrote:
> It's probably the thermistor. What model are you playing with?
>
> -Original Message-
sign takes care of all this.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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t looks bizarre, there is very solid engineering
behind it.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Normand Martel wrote:
> It's bizarre..
>
> The oscillator is some kind of Colpitts but with coils
> instead of capacitors in the feedback path.
>
> (i don't call it a Hartley, bcause Hartley&#
80 degrees or might oscillate and
it would be too hot to handle.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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imply held in by friction. Instead of pulling on the
test point, you might push on the assy through the adjustment hole.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Jack Hudler wrote:
>
> Could physical damage to the crystal account for this deviation?
Pretty unlikely. If you drop a crystal, it will just break and
not work. The only way it could go down 100 Hz is by mass loading.
I don't know how this could happen in a sealed unit.
Rick Kar
ver made one on purpose.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Mark Amos wrote:
> Didier,
>
> My experience with 4 10811's with widely separated serial numbers is
> consistent with your
> numbers below. Between 6 and 8 minutes of warm up from ambient (18C) and
> they're stable at the
>
m would burn up and out-gas toxic fumes. Ovens very
> > rarely run away.
> >
> > The unit that is 500 Hz off is not due to a cold oven. There isn't
> > that much tempco in the crystal.
> >
> > Rick Karlquist N6RK
>
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early that long for the oven current to
cut back, plus you need a few minutes, even with an SC cut, for the
frequency to settle down even after reaching oven temperature.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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No I'm not sure, but 164 ppm sounds high. My anecdotal
memory may be faulty.
In any event, a 10811 with a bad fuse is obvious:
it draws no oven power and the case never gets warm.
Rick
Jeroen Bastemeijer wrote:
> Dear Rick,
>
> Are you sure the 500Hz is too much for a cold oven? I checked my 5
with the socket is poor.
I think the reason for it was that if the oven ran away, the
thermal foam would burn up and out-gas toxic fumes. Ovens very
rarely run away.
The unit that is 500 Hz off is not due to a cold oven. There isn't
that much tempco in the crystal.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
g bad in the
field.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Mark Amos wrote:
> Time-nuts,
>
> Seems like a bad batch of HP10811's was dumped on e-bay over the
> holidays... Some (at least
> 2) won't tune up to 10MHz: one won't adjust above 9,999,530 and the other
> peaks around
>
hile for no particular
reason. Not only that, but crystals will jump a part in 1E^9
or so every so often. I've never seen a 10811 crystal without
jumps if you wait long enough. I don't know of any other crystal
makers who claim to not have jumps.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
___
#x27;s, that I have never seen
one that had anything like that level of aging.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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n set it
within 1 Hz, or 1E-7 if you are careful, and the expected annual
aging is in that ballpark).
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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Greg Burnett wrote:
> The 5345A does not have a EFC adjustment, so your only option is the
> frequency adjust pot on top side of the 10811 oscillator.
> Greg
It's not a pot, it is a piston trimmer type capacitor.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
___
year, but setting them to that degree of precision was a real
> pain.
I think you meant 1E-10 per DAY, not per year.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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This alone restricts the modulation bandwidth to a 10 Hz at best.
In particular, in the 10811, the ALC loop will react adversely to
fast modulation, and turns out to the be limiting factor.
If you want to clean up a crystal oscillator, you need to use a phase
modulator following the oscill
hidden fuse somewhere that I should check?
>>Also is there some test points I can check to see if a signal is getting
>>through the front?
>>
>>Jason
>
Some HP equipment had a fuse built in to the front panel connector.
I would verify with a scope that
house frequency standard, so we never used a built in
oscillator in a counter. Due to time and cost pressures, we unfortunately
inherited the same oscillator in the 5334B.
So in both products, please plan on getting a 10811 or using an
external frequency reference.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Project manager,
e
> or
> even point to some suitable document.
For other info on the 5071 design process, see our papers from
1992 FCS.
Rick Karlquist
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d. The remaining random
error is typically a few parts in 10^13. The systematic error
seems to be below 10^-14.
As Magnus said, the solution to this is beam reversal, however that
would be too complicated in a compact clock like the 5071.
Rick Karlquist
s may likely have failed.
Rick Karlquist
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
> My HP8568B has started to do weird things, and as far as I can find
> out, the A15U37 Eprom is hosed.
>
> According to the label, the HP partno for the contents is 85660-80080
>
> The chip has a HP partno of
I talked to the Agilent Library, and they said that
if I donate these manuals, they will be stored but
not scanned at this time. I thought I would ask
here if there is any interest in any of these manuals.
Perhaps I can scan a few myself if there is sufficient
interest.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
s interested in owning any of the original paper
manuals, let me know what you are interested in.
I need to dispose of these one way or another.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
Agilent Technologies
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ut it was OK to go out of lock momentarily!
Anyway, this test was probably one of the motivating factors in
HP discontinuing the 5062 despite Navy pleading to the contrary.
Rick Karlquist
(worked at HP after the 5062 era)
Christopher Hoover wrote:
> Should I expect a healthy Cs beam standard
About 30 years ago, someone gave me an HP524 counter, which
is the one this plug in was for. It had I don't know how
many dozens of tubes. There was a huge filament transformer
for all these tubes. I cannibalized the transformer and folded up a
box out of sheet metal as a case for it and made i
cuit.
(10 ppm is "high precision" when it comes to using inverters).
If you care about performance, use a transistor to make
the oscillator and use the inverter to convert the
sine wave to logic levels. If you "cannot" use a transistor,
relax your specs about an order
out then
back in could be affected by the environment or removing the top
cover. The 5061 had a frequency coefficient of microwave power that
doesn't exist in the 5071. It wouldn't surprise me if humidity
affected the 5061, although I don't have any direct evidence of it.
Rick
frequency. Early on in the development of
the 10811, they had a bad problem with aging that
turned out to be lubricant in the piston trimmer.
They switched to unlubricated trimmers. The varactor
diode might also be a possible source of drift.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
> -Original Mess
ficsites.com/~brooke/PRC68COM.shtml
> http://www.precisionclock.com
>
>
>
> Richard (Rick) Karlquist wrote:
>
>>>Given that HP's engineers have done such a good job with
>>>the oven and oscillator design, is there anything to be gained
>>>by adding extra thermal insulatio
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Behalf Of Richard (Rick) Karlquist
> Sent: Tuesday, June 20, 2006 1:03 AM
> To: Discussion of precise time and frequency measurement
> Subject: Re: [time-nuts] 10811 Extra Lagging etc
>
>
>> Given that HP's engineers hav
imate stability was limited by crystal frequency jumps,
which didn't seem so bad with the 10811 due to the large
environment errors in it. In the E1938 they stuck out like
a sore thumb.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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that fact
that you still have the electronics and oven to worry about, which
the BVA structure has no effect on.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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I have several of these, but the electromechanical relay contacts
have become dirty on all of them. Is anyone familiar with
rejuvenating them? Especially the idea of running a fairly high
power RF signal through them and hot switching them to burn off
the oxide.
Rick N6RK
Mike Feher wrote:
> Th
> It specifically
> addresses the gain/bandwidth zerocrossing detector issues.
> Peter ZL2AYX
Also see John Dick's 1990 PTTI paper on JPL zero crossing detectors.
Excellent.
Rick Karlquist
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It is trivial to build your own out of a couple of flip flops.
You can read Michael Fischer's patent on it (circa 1980).
Rick Karlquist N6RK
NE8S wrote:
> Gentlemen:
>
> Happy Holidays to All Time, Frequency, and Phase Domainers.
>
> I am looking for an HP Linear Phase C
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
>
> But did you test it both in horizontal an vertical orientation ?
>
I am not aware of any vertical testing, although the burn racks
may have been vertical. The end application had random orientation
and no one reported any orientation dependence.
Rick
ol loop is awesome.
BTW, the intended application was as a card in a VXI cage, etc.
Many of those cages have the card in a vertical orientation.
Rick Karlquist
Poul-Henning Kamp wrote:
> In message <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "Richard
> \(Ric
> k\) Karlquist \(N6RK\)" writes
he cheapest crystals are housed in a metal can with a
>solder seal; cold welding of the can is a much better procedure; and a
>glass envelope is the best. Cheaper than cheap are the WW2 "FT243"
Many decades ago, glass was the "gold standard".
s no way you would
want to use this with an OCXO.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
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ion,
low phase noise amplifiers to produce a large sine wave which
is then passively limited with diodes.
You can also get away with driving a differential pair with
a common current source for the emitters.
A classic paper on zero crossing detectors by JPL's John Dick
at the 1990 PTTI ex
spent a lot of his time
cutting apart tubes. I suggest that you
should do this first, and then you can see into
the tube and it should be obvious where you can
cutaway the center section without damaging the
working parts. Don't get any loose pieces of steel
near the magnets!
Rick Karl
Slightly OT: Does anyone know if there is an "atomic clock"
(the WWVB driven type) that interfaces to a PC via USB or
something, such that the PC time is regularly updated?
This would solve my PC time problem. (I need this to work
w/o internet access).
Rick Karlquist
Poul-Henning
ciates". In any event, the 5071 CBTs
have never been outsourced.
Rick Karlquist
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f cesium molecules for the detector to detect.
Atoms not molecules
>
> A c-beam is essentially a notch filter. The beam is modulated
No, it's a bandpass filter.
Rick Karlquist
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Ideally, all tubes should be pumped at all times.
I have heard that you should never go more than
18 months without pumping.
The pumping issue is the same with new or old designs.
Rick Karlquist
george said:
> How often does Cesium frequency standards require cesium tube pumping.
>
&
rceded years ago by the 10811D/E, in terms of
model numbers.
Rick Karlquist
R&D Engineer at HP Santa Clara Division 1979-1998
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interfaced with GP-IB. It might have actually worked
correctly. I remember that the HP5183 had a bug where it
would go into serial poll by mistake after about 12 hours
of continuous bus activity. There was no way to fix this
bug, AFAIK.
Rick Karlquist
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said:
> Hi David,
>
I just donated a 5370A manual and a 5370B manual to the Agilent
Libraries manual collection. My understanding is that these will
be scanned in.
Rick Karlquist
Mike S said:
> As the proud new owner of a 5370A, a couple of requests of the list:
>
> 1) What do you use/recommend for an H
t method by which an outside person accesses this
collection, but I was told it was in response to many customer
phone calls about manuals.
Rick Karlquist N6RK
(employed by Agilent Technologies)
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5071A's is randomly
distributed with a mean within 10-14 of laboratory
standards, such as Cs fountains. Knowing the way we
overdesigned the 5071A, I am not surprised that it
is this good.
Rick Karlquist
(member of 5071A design team)
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