Re: (313) EZMLM problem
I don't recommend changing to googlegroups. My office uses it extensively for staff and external lists and we are finding intermittent but persistent issues with delivery delays ranging up to 48 hours. Apparently the internal spam filtering there is very sensitive to small changes in text or delivery patterns and implements holds of varying lengths. Our inquiries to Google have, of course, not been answered. Fred - Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect- our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
We have the same issues with Google Groups for our corporation. I would highly recommend against using it unless they fix the spam filtering procedures. On Sat, Apr 26, 2014 at 9:06 AM, Fred Heutte ph...@sunlightdata.com wrote: I don't recommend changing to googlegroups. My office uses it extensively for staff and external lists and we are finding intermittent but persistent issues with delivery delays ranging up to 48 hours. Apparently the internal spam filtering there is very sensitive to small changes in text or delivery patterns and implements holds of varying lengths. Our inquiries to Google have, of course, not been answered. Fred - Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect- our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
OK, clarifications... You will see bounces on e-mail services other than Yahoo. GMail implements DMARC but it doesn't itself bounce emails that fail DMARC tests. But when Yahoo servers get your e-mail, they will check the DMARC and reject it, because the way EZMLM (and every other e-mail list software) works is by re-writing the headers. You re-write the headers you break the check-sum or some-such baloney. And there's several negative votes on Google Groups. Fair enough. At this point, it's probably best if we encourage Yahoo 313 subscribers to move to a GMail account, and sit tight while Brian Behlendorf figures stuff out.
(313) EZMLM problem
Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and ( br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our- dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know.
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
The partial solution would be to switch from a Yahoo e-mail account if you have one. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.comwrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and ( br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy- destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our- dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know.
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
Yeah we'll see what Brian decides. Switching over all the hyperreal.orglists will be kind of a chore. I'd just switch to a google group if I didn't think that would cause other problems. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Kane m...@hydrogenproject.comwrote: Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic http://hydrogenproject.com
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
I'm no techy. But we've been using g groups privately for years now. It's watertight. Of course the need to migrate would be offensive for a lot of subscribers, though, I guess. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. From: kent williamsSent: Friday, 25 April 2014 15:50To: Matthew KaneCc: list 313Subject: Re: (313) EZMLM problemYeah we'll see what Brian decides. Switching over all the hyperreal.org lists will be kind of a chore.I'd just switch to a google group if I didn't think that would cause other problems. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Kane m...@hydrogenproject.com wrote: Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
I'm seeing this problem on my gmail address too... On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Ken k...@bleep43.com wrote: I'm no techy. But we've been using g groups privately for years now. It's watertight. Of course the need to migrate would be offensive for a lot of subscribers, though, I guess. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *kent williams *Sent: *Friday, 25 April 2014 15:50 *To: *Matthew Kane *Cc: *list 313 *Subject: *Re: (313) EZMLM problem Yeah we'll see what Brian decides. Switching over all the hyperreal.orglists will be kind of a chore. I'd just switch to a google group if I didn't think that would cause other problems. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Kane m...@hydrogenproject.comwrote: Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming/migration talent to contribute) let me know. -- matt kane twitter: the_real_mkb / nynexrepublic
Re: (313) EZMLM problem
same... On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 6:31 PM, aron schoppert norapo...@gmail.com wrote: I'm seeing this problem on my gmail address too... On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:12 AM, Ken k...@bleep43.com wrote: I'm no techy. But we've been using g groups privately for years now. It's watertight. Of course the need to migrate would be offensive for a lot of subscribers, though, I guess. Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone. *From: *kent williams *Sent: *Friday, 25 April 2014 15:50 *To: *Matthew Kane *Cc: *list 313 *Subject: *Re: (313) EZMLM problem Yeah we'll see what Brian decides. Switching over all the hyperreal.orglists will be kind of a chore. I'd just switch to a google group if I didn't think that would cause other problems. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Matthew Kane m...@hydrogenproject.comwrote: Mailman 2.1.16 has the Threadable change. On Fri, Apr 25, 2014 at 10:12 AM, kent williams chaircrus...@gmail.com wrote: Apparently there is a problem with something called DMARC that big e-mail providers are implementing. I've quoted the e-mail from Brian Behlendorf (who is the man behind hyperreal.org) on the subject. The big problem is people with yahoo.com e-mail addresses. The way EZMLM works is that it takes your e-mail and resends it to all the list members. Any mail server implementing DMARC rejects e-mails where the FROM: address is x...@yahoo.com, but it doesn't come from a yahoo mail server. This has resulted in people getting bounce notices from hyperreal. It has happened to me, and I don't even have a yahoo.com e-mail address. Bottom line is the hyperreal team is working on a solution, but this will likely screw up 313 emails for the near term. If you're an e-mail list wizard and can suggest a linux based mailing list server that can circumvent this stupidity, please let me and (br...@hyperreal.org) know. - If you list is still active and hasn't been swept away by folks moving to Facebook or whatever, you might have heard complaints from yahoo.comusers, or possibly even folks who have started to see strange bounces where yahoo.com senders are involved. This is due to a current hullabaloo about an anti-spam tech called DMARC and Yahoo's recent and strict implementation of it. http://thehackernews.com/2014/04/yahoos-new-dmarc-policy-destroys-every.html DMARC is a system designed to allow domain owners to specify policies and rules regarding how to deal with email from senders using that domain. For example, for an email with a From header like: From: Brian brianbehlend...@yahoo.com Yahoo published a policy that says unless that email came from Yahoo's servers, it should be rejected. This is a great anti-spam technique given that lots of spammers use yahoo.com addresses fraudulently (I guess?). But what it means for senders to mailing lists like those we host at Hyperreal, when that mail goes through Hyp and comes back to Yahoo's servers, it bounces. Not only that, but that Yahoo sender's mail bounces at Gmail and other mail service providers who implement DMARC. Those bounces can cause chaos, of course. Ezmlm/qmail will keep track of those bounces and at least let subscribers know they're missing messages and why, and shouldn't unsub those users automatically, but it still causes chaos. More details on technically why this is wrong: http://www.ietf.org/mail-archive/web/ietf/current/msg87153.html Yahoo appears to not get why this is a big deal: http://yahoo.tumblr.com/post/82426971544/an-update-on-our-dmarc-policy-to-protect-our-users There is no good fix here. Changing the From: header to say something like From: Brian Behlendorf via sfra...@hyperreal.org seems wacky, but it's what Threadable did, specifically for DMARC-checking recipients and DMARC-policy-publishing sender domains: http://blog.threadable.com/how-threadable-solved-the-dmarc-problem Sadly, though, no open source mailing list manager has implemented this well. Mailman seems to have implemented this partially, but no one's even talking about this for ezmlm and I doubt it'll happen. I've not decided whether to move the Hyperreal mailing lists to Mailman or something else, but clearly we need to move off of ezmlm anyways. I was hoping to be able to choose between a couple of them, but now that choice seems much more narrow (and not necessarily the best - Sympa was looking promising too). Anyways - I am sad that this is how things have played out, that I can't provide a quick resolution to this. For now all I can suggest is asking youryahoo.com users to switch to another domain if they want to participate. But that sucks as an answer. If anyone has better ideas (or programming
