Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Kirk:

No idea.

I got an email that allowed me to resubscribe to the list and I did so,
apparently successfully.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 7:02 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> I got the bounce warning too. Do we know what caused it?
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Douglas von Roeder 
> wrote:
>
> > Tom:
> >
> > Interesting…
> >
> > I got unsubbed from the list last week because of too many bounce backs.
> > That's sorta weird because I've been using the same gMail account for
> over
> > a decade.
> >
> > "Click harder", perhaps?
> >
> > --
> > Douglas von Roeder
> > 949-336-2902
> >
> > On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > > Cannon,
> > >
> > > I'm getting From: 4D Tech and CC to the original poster.
> > >
> > > I've also noticed that some of my posts to 4D Tech list get bounced. I
> > > should cut back on my wildly offensive SIG lines, I guess.
> > >
> > > --
> > >--
> > >Tom Dillon   825 N. 500 W.
> > >DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
> > >tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
> > >--
> > >  What kind of stpid sig line is this? --- Sunastar
> > >--
> > >
> > >
> > > **
> > > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > > Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> > > **
> > >
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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> > **
> >
>
>
>
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> ===
> **
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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

I got the bounce warning too. Do we know what caused it?

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 9:08 AM, Douglas von Roeder 
wrote:

> Tom:
>
> Interesting…
>
> I got unsubbed from the list last week because of too many bounce backs.
> That's sorta weird because I've been using the same gMail account for over
> a decade.
>
> "Click harder", perhaps?
>
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
>
> On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > Cannon,
> >
> > I'm getting From: 4D Tech and CC to the original poster.
> >
> > I've also noticed that some of my posts to 4D Tech list get bounced. I
> > should cut back on my wildly offensive SIG lines, I guess.
> >
> > --
> >--
> >Tom Dillon   825 N. 500 W.
> >DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
> >tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
> >--
> >  What kind of stpid sig line is this? --- Sunastar
> >--
> >
> >
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> > Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> > Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> > **
> >
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> **
>



-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===
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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile

[Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech]

Sannyasin, Doug, Chris, Jody & Tom:

Thanks for your input—I spoke to a local developer yesterday where I stated 
that I was the last 4D developer to understand 4D Mobile and he said I’m at 
least the second-to-last… :)

Robert

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 7:54 AM, Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Thanks for this discussion - keep posting your experiences and opinions.

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Re: Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Cannon:

Oh, *that* command!

They hid it right there in the docs! :-)



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:26 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Thanks to everyone who replied. I just remembered that 4D has an On System
> Event database method that fires whenever the application moves to the
> front or back. I think I’ll just track the changes here.
>
> Thanks again for all the ideas!
>
> --
> Cannon.Smith
> Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
> Hill Spring, AB Canada
> 403-626-3236
> 
> 
>
>
> > On Feb 17, 2017, at 4:15 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > And I thought the Win32API plug-in had a command to do this, but I'm not
> 100% certain...
>
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to everyone who replied. I just remembered that 4D has an On System 
Event database method that fires whenever the application moves to the front or 
back. I think I’ll just track the changes here.

Thanks again for all the ideas!

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Feb 17, 2017, at 4:15 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> And I thought the Win32API plug-in had a command to do this, but I'm not 100% 
> certain...

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Re: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Balinder Walia via 4D_Tech]

I already did clear my browser's cache.

On 17 February 2017 at 23:21, npdennis  wrote:

> Also GoDaddy https:// website is down and it says:
>
> Access DeniedYou don't have permission to access "http://www.godaddy.com/";
> on this server.
>
> Reference #18.7157dd58.1487372136.fb3e3ec
> Try: https://www.godaddy.com
>
>
> It works for me, try clearing your cache
>
>
> Neil
> --
> Neil Dennis
> 4D Developer since 1990
>
> GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
> 716 East 1850 N
> North Ogden, UT 84414
>
> mailto:npden...@greatext.com 
> http://www.greatext.com/
>
>
>
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Re: Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Jeffrey:

You nailed it - docs in 8.1.2 list

   -

   sys_IsAppFrontmost


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 3:15 PM, Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> And I thought the Win32API plug-in had a command to do this, but I'm not
> 100% certain...
>
> Jeff
>
> --
> Jeffrey Kain
> jeffrey.k...@gmail.com
>
> > On Feb 17, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > If you're on the Mac, you might be able to get that info using
> Applescript.
> >
> > This is from the payback machine so I don't remember the details. Check
> the
> > NUG archives for this "applescript".
>
> **
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Re: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[npdennis via 4D_Tech]

> Also GoDaddy https:// website is down and it says:
> 
> Access DeniedYou don't have permission to access "http://www.godaddy.com/";
> on this server.
> 
> Reference #18.7157dd58.1487372136.fb3e3ec
> Try: https://www.godaddy.com


It works for me, try clearing your cache


Neil
--
Neil Dennis
4D Developer since 1990

GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
716 East 1850 N
North Ogden, UT 84414

mailto:npden...@greatext.com
http://www.greatext.com/


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Re: Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Jeffrey Kain via 4D_Tech]

And I thought the Win32API plug-in had a command to do this, but I'm not 100% 
certain...

Jeff

--
Jeffrey Kain
jeffrey.k...@gmail.com

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 4:49 PM, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> If you're on the Mac, you might be able to get that info using Applescript.
> 
> This is from the payback machine so I don't remember the details. Check the
> NUG archives for this "applescript".

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Re: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Balinder Walia via 4D_Tech]

Randy you're welcome.
Letsencrypt auto renewals works great.

Also GoDaddy https:// website is down and it says:

Access DeniedYou don't have permission to access "http://www.godaddy.com/";
on this server.

Reference #18.7157dd58.1487372136.fb3e3ec
Try: https://www.godaddy.com

It's NoDaddy!!!

On 17 February 2017 at 22:42, Randy Engle via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> Hi Tim,
>
> Cool.  Thanks for the extra info
>
> Randy Engle
> XC2 Software LLC
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy
> Penner via 4D_Tech
> Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 2:21 PM
> To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Timothy Penner 
> Subject: RE: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy
>
> I second the suggestion for Letsecrypt - free and automated sums it up
> nicely!
> I would also like to remind everyone that there is also a Let's Encrypt
> client for 4D:
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77671
> http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77708
>
> -Tim
>
>
>
> **
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RE: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

Hi Tim,

Cool.  Thanks for the extra info

Randy Engle
XC2 Software LLC


-Original Message-
From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of Timothy Penner 
via 4D_Tech
Sent: Friday, February 17, 2017 2:21 PM
To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Timothy Penner 
Subject: RE: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

I second the suggestion for Letsecrypt - free and automated sums it up nicely!
I would also like to remind everyone that there is also a Let's Encrypt client 
for 4D:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77671
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77708

-Tim



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RE: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

I second the suggestion for Letsecrypt - free and automated sums it up nicely!
I would also like to remind everyone that there is also a Let's Encrypt client 
for 4D:
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77671
http://kb.4d.com/assetid=77708

-Tim



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Re: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Balinder Walia via 4D_Tech]

Letsencrypt.org is the way to go. Free open source, updates automatically
so forget about renewals. Install once, set auto renewals using crontab or
4D hosuekeeping/daemon process - on Mac / Linux / Cygwin on windows. There
is Letsencrypt Win-Simple for IIS which should work for 4D too:
https://weblog.west-wind.com/posts/2016/feb/22/using-lets-encrypt-with-iis-on-windows

On 17 February 2017 at 16:50, npdennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> > Anybody have any experience with goDaddy and SSL?
>
> I use GoDaddy’s SSL, no problems.
>
>
> Neil
>
> --
> Neil Dennis
> 4D Developer since 1990
>
> GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
> 716 East 1850 N
> North Ogden, UT 84414
>
> mailto:npden...@greatext.com
> http://www.greatext.com/
>
>
> **
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Re: Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Cannon

If you're on the Mac, you might be able to get that info using Applescript.

This is from the payback machine so I don't remember the details. Check the
NUG archives for this "applescript".

I needed to bring 4D to the front when I was working in an all Mac shop and
I ended up doing it with an Applescript. I realize that's bassackwards for
what you're trying to do but it might get you headed in the right
direction.



--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 1:20 PM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Is there a way to detect whether 4D is the frontmost application? I have a
> small status window that I show/hide from time to time and am finding that
> if 4D is hidden, when I call SHOW WINDOW, 4D comes becomes the frontmost
> application which is really annoying. I’m thinking that if I can detect
> whether 4D is frontmost, I can choose whether or not to show the window at
> all. If anyone has other ideas, I’m open to them.
>
> Thanks.
>
> --
> Cannon.Smith
> Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
> Hill Spring, AB Canada
> 403-626-3236
> 
> 
>
>
> **
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Detecting if 4D is Frontmost App

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Is there a way to detect whether 4D is the frontmost application? I have a 
small status window that I show/hide from time to time and am finding that if 
4D is hidden, when I call SHOW WINDOW, 4D comes becomes the frontmost 
application which is really annoying. I’m thinking that if I can detect whether 
4D is frontmost, I can choose whether or not to show the window at all. If 
anyone has other ideas, I’m open to them.

Thanks.

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

I’d like to thank Tim for helping with this. I never would have thought it was 
a contact that needed to be deleted!

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:22 PM, Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> You may have a contact in your address book with the address of 
> 4D_Tech@lists.4d.com and a display name of "4D iNug Tech"... If so it is 
> likely that your email client is auto-replacing the From field in the list of 
> emails using the display name from the contact... That was what was going on 
> for Cannon.

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RE: iNUG List "From" Change

[bob.miller--- via 4D_Tech]

Per Tim Penner > The new behavior you see is called munging the address

Wow, a new tech word!  Actually not new at all - the origin per Wikipedia 
is actually in 1958 at MIT.  Geez, where was I?

"Mung or munge is computer jargon for a series of potentially destructive 
or irrevocable changes to a piece of data or a file.  It is sometimes used 
for vague data transformation steps that are not yet clear to the speaker. 
 Common munging operations include removing punctuation or html tags, data 
parsing, filtering, and transformation."

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mung_(computer_term)

Hmmm...sounds like a counterrevolution to the guys who promote data 
quality...


Bob Miller
Chomerics, a division of Parker Hannifin Corporation




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RE: iNUG List "From" Change

[Timothy Penner via 4D_Tech]

Hi Lee,

You may have a contact in your address book with the address of 
4D_Tech@lists.4d.com and a display name of "4D iNug Tech"... If so it is likely 
that your email client is auto-replacing the From field in the list of emails 
using the display name from the contact... That was what was going on for 
Cannon.

-Tim



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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Lee Hinde via 4D_Tech]

Whatever you did fixed the issue. Thanks!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/22eh2ueu3umf186/Screen%20Shot%202017-02-17%20at%2010.57.30%20AM.png?dl=0


> On Feb 17, 2017, at 9:43 AM, Timothy Penner  wrote:
> 
> In outlook the from address shows up like this:
> http://imgur.com/a/logbQ
> 
> The old "From" header was the actual sender even though the origination was 
> lists.4d.com (this can be problematic for some email servers because it looks 
> like spam).
> The new "from" header is the actual lists server was a display name of the 
> sender +"via 4D_Tech"
> 
> -Tim
> 
> 
> 
>> Actually, here’s another screenshot that shows when the change happened and 
>> what it looks like before and after.
>> 
>> Is this what everyone else is seeing in Apple Mail?
> 
> 

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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile

[Tom DeMeo via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

I worked with 4D Mobile and Wakanda for a couple of years, and for simply 
publishing grids and detail views of data from 4D, its pretty impressive how 
quickly you can put something together. Unfortunately, once you get into 
editing data and client side business logic, (which is what most of us do for a 
living), a developer will have to dig in every bit as much as they might using 
any other technology stack on the market. Personally, I have found it easier 
having my client side code making AJAX calls directly to 4D. You can write 
server side response code right into 4D methods, use Active4D (what I would 
recommend) or even try working with the new javascript framework in the latest 
version of NTK toolkit . 

I also don’t think using Wakanda as a back end is any easier than making calls 
to 4D via AJAX. Either way, 4D developers will need to learn some new things, 
but Wakanda is a whole new framework. At least with 4D, you are on familiar 
ground.

So, for simply browsing data in situations where the licensing is not a major 
issue, the 4D Mobile/Wakanda stack is a real time saver. When you are servicing 
larger numbers of users or building web apps that require significant business 
logic,  use a Web Expansion with unlimited connections, and manage your own 
requests and responses. A number of client side framework combinations will 
semi-automate your requests and your client side data modeling for you, and the 
server side responses aren’t really that hard to build from 4D.



Tom DeMeo
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Re: [off] DreamWeaver replacement for maintaining 4D based website?

[Bertrand SOUBEYRAND]

> Le 17 févr. 2017 à 09:29, Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> FWIW I use the lightning component on 4d and oxygen for editing and checking
> syntax. However since Lightning uses templates I have found Stylizer
> http://www.skybound.ca/  for edting css is the best 
> thing since sliced bread
> (if you hate css as much as I do).


I discover and I confirm: magnifique !


Bertrand SOUBEYRAND
---
La Soub Compagnie
33 bd de la Liberté - 13001 Marseille
Bureau : +33 4 84 25 21 99
http://www.soubeyrand-4d-developer.eu 

Belgique : +32 87 84 00 88




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Re: using sql to duplicate remote structure

[Jeremy French]

http://livedoc.4d.com/4D-SQL-Reference-16-R2.1620/Using-SQL-in-4D/System-Tables.300-3235254.en.html

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 12:00 PM, Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> point me in the right direction to system table documentation

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RE: iNUG List "From" Change

[Timothy Penner]

In outlook the from address shows up like this:
http://imgur.com/a/logbQ

The old "From" header was the actual sender even though the origination was 
lists.4d.com (this can be problematic for some email servers because it looks 
like spam).
The new "from" header is the actual lists server was a display name of the 
sender +"via 4D_Tech"

-Tim



> Actually, here’s another screenshot that shows when the change happened and 
> what it looks like before and after.
>
> Is this what everyone else is seeing in Apple Mail?



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Re: Permanently Sort Data

[Douglas von Roeder]

Scott:

Heh, good of you to bring that up.

Like you, I snagged a copy of Olivier's shell and was very impressed by it.
One of the constraints that we work against is that what we've done in the
past has brought us success and so we tend to keep doing it. Of course,
that has it's pros and cons - we keep customers happy but it also can lead
to stagnation.

That changes when good folks like Olivier have the ingenuity and skills to
bring new techniques to life and then share his work with us.

Tip of the hat to Olivier.


--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 9:29 AM, Scott Staley  wrote:

> Steven,
>
> I thought I would pass on something that has been helpful for me in regards
> to sorting.
>
> Back on September 1, 2016 a gentleman by the name of Flury Oliver posted a
> link to a 4D shell he calls the data browser.  Here is the link to his post
> (not sure if I can post a link).
>
> http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Shell-or-not-so-much-
> td5747143.html#a5747180
>
> I checked his link to his shell and it appears to still work.
>
> As a part of his shell he included a set of utility routines in a component
> called FSUty.4dbase.  The utility routines include two methods called
> UtyLB_SaveUserSort and UtyLB_SetUserSort.  The Save User Sort method is
> placed in a listbox "on after sort" event and the Set User Sort method is
> placed anywhere you want to update/resort the listbox.  I've created a
> shell
> of my own in which I provide many simple ways to modify a listbox selection
> and I needed a simple way to maintain the sort order.  This has worked
> wonderfully with one exception... it doesn't handle calculated column
> sorts.
>
> The methods are pretty short so I could post them here but not sure if that
> would be appropriate.
>
> Also, not sure if this will help you but I thought I would pass it on.
>
> fyi...  Just a note on the data browser shell.  I've found it to be a
> wonderful resource not just because of some excellent sample code that is
> included but I've learned a lot of programing techniques from how Mr Oliver
> does his programing.  Much of it is still over my head (his use of language
> objects for example) but I am very grateful for his sharing this with the
> 4D
> community.
>
>
>
>
> --
> View this message in context: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.
> com/Permanently-Sort-Data-tp5750242p5750350.html
> Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
> **
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Re: Permanently Sort Data

[Scott Staley]

Steven,

I thought I would pass on something that has been helpful for me in regards
to sorting.  

Back on September 1, 2016 a gentleman by the name of Flury Oliver posted a
link to a 4D shell he calls the data browser.  Here is the link to his post
(not sure if I can post a link).

http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Shell-or-not-so-much-td5747143.html#a5747180

I checked his link to his shell and it appears to still work.  

As a part of his shell he included a set of utility routines in a component
called FSUty.4dbase.  The utility routines include two methods called
UtyLB_SaveUserSort and UtyLB_SetUserSort.  The Save User Sort method is
placed in a listbox "on after sort" event and the Set User Sort method is
placed anywhere you want to update/resort the listbox.  I've created a shell
of my own in which I provide many simple ways to modify a listbox selection
and I needed a simple way to maintain the sort order.  This has worked
wonderfully with one exception... it doesn't handle calculated column sorts.

The methods are pretty short so I could post them here but not sure if that
would be appropriate.

Also, not sure if this will help you but I thought I would pass it on. 

fyi...  Just a note on the data browser shell.  I've found it to be a
wonderful resource not just because of some excellent sample code that is
included but I've learned a lot of programing techniques from how Mr Oliver
does his programing.  Much of it is still over my head (his use of language
objects for example) but I am very grateful for his sharing this with the 4D
community.




--
View this message in context: 
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/Permanently-Sort-Data-tp5750242p5750350.html
Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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RE: iNUG List "From" Change

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Cannon,

Yes this was a change I implemented earlier this week when I upgraded the 
mailing list software to resolve an issue with respect to DMARC policies.

I may be able to get the original "From" to show up again for everyone except 
for those sending from a domain with a DMARC policy set to reject (such as 
aol.com and yahoo.com), those domains are the precise reason it was changed. 
Without the change it would cause messages we relay for those domains (aol.com 
and yahoo.com) to have the delivery rejected by other domains like gmail.com 
which causes a cascading effect where the mailing list server processes the 
bounce back from the gmail.com addresses and then disables mail delivery for 
the subscriber thinking there is an issue with the gmail account, when really 
the issue is that the message was relayed when the dmarc policy is set to 
reject so gmail properly rejected it as per the dmarc rule.

The new behavior you see is called munging the address, and it is the nicer 
alternative to rejecting all messages from aol.com and yahoo.com - I just 
applied to everyone when I may not have needed to, I have relaxed the setting 
back and it should now only "munge from" for anyone who posts to the list from 
a domain with a DMARC reject/quarantine policy.

Although if I continue to see bounces due to relaying messages for other 
domains I may need to re-enable it for everyone.

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER



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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Douglas von Roeder]

Tom:

Interesting…

I got unsubbed from the list last week because of too many bounce backs.
That's sorta weird because I've been using the same gMail account for over
a decade.

"Click harder", perhaps?

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Fri, Feb 17, 2017 at 8:54 AM, Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Cannon,
>
> I'm getting From: 4D Tech and CC to the original poster.
>
> I've also noticed that some of my posts to 4D Tech list get bounced. I
> should cut back on my wildly offensive SIG lines, I guess.
>
> --
>--
>Tom Dillon   825 N. 500 W.
>DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
>tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
>--
>  What kind of stpid sig line is this? --- Sunastar
>--
>
>
> **
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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Actually, here’s another screenshot that shows when the change happened and 
what it looks like before and after.



Is this what everyone else is seeing in Apple Mail?

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




> On Feb 17, 2017, at 10:02 AM, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I’m using Apple Mail. I uploaded a screenshot showing what what I’m seeing:
> 
>   

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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

I’m using Apple Mail. I uploaded a screenshot showing what what I’m seeing:



--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236



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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Pierre Coulombe via 4D_Tech]

That’s what I getting as well.


> On 17 Feb 2017, at 11:54 AM, Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Cannon,
> 
> I'm getting From: 4D Tech and CC to the original poster.
> 
> I've also noticed that some of my posts to 4D Tech list get bounced. I should 
> cut back on my wildly offensive SIG lines, I guess.
> 
> -- 
>   --
>   Tom Dillon   825 N. 500 W.
>   DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
>   tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
>   --
> What kind of stpid sig line is this? --- Sunastar
>   --
> 
> 
> **
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using sql to duplicate remote structure

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

Hi All,

I know I have seen commands to do this but can not find on 4d.com. Can someone 
point me in the right direction to system table documentation
Thanks and regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby 
notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, 
modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is 
strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person other than the 
intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, 
privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Tom Dillon via 4D_Tech]

Cannon,

I'm getting From: 4D Tech and CC to the original poster.

I've also noticed that some of my posts to 4D Tech list get bounced. I should 
cut back on my wildly offensive SIG lines, I guess.

-- 
   --
   Tom Dillon   825 N. 500 W.
   DataCraft   Moab, UT 84532
   tomdil...@datacraft-inc.com   720/209-6502
   --
 What kind of stpid sig line is this? --- Sunastar
   --


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Re: SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[npdennis via 4D_Tech]

> Anybody have any experience with goDaddy and SSL?

I use GoDaddy’s SSL, no problems.


Neil

--
Neil Dennis
4D Developer since 1990

GreaText - Designing Software for the Way You Work
716 East 1850 N
North Ogden, UT 84414

mailto:npden...@greatext.com
http://www.greatext.com/


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SSL Certificates - GoDaddy

[Randy Engle via 4D_Tech]

We have a client getting ready to set up an SSL certif. for use with the 4D Web 
Server in our product.

I've use QualitySSL in the past, as those guys know 4D and it's easy to create 
the cert.pem and key.pem files.

However, our customer is a city government and they want to do it their way...  
 ;-)

They want to use GoDaddy's SSL , however seems that I've had trouble producing 
SSL certs with goDaddy in the past.

Anybody have any experience with goDaddy and SSL?

Thanks to all!

Randy Engle
XC2 Software LLC



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CONNECTION BROKEN

[stardata.info via 4D_Tech]

hi all,

In one my 4d client server sometime i have a CONNECTION BROKEN error on 
a client.
This can happen for the antivirus action? ( Trend micro and Mricrosoft 
essential are on client )


Thanks
Ferdinando
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Re: AW: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I use a record.
document to blob then Blob to document - client to server, or server to 
client.

An alternative would be to use FTP and launch this with LEP, but I see 
that as just another piece to have to manage.

Variable to variable - I don't like (see various comments by David 
Adams)
Never tried the resource folder.

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 09:39:19 +0100, flury olivier via 4D_Tech wrote:
> Hi Maurice,
> 
> That sounds reasonable. And how do you move the BLOB from the Server 
> to the Client?
> 
> I see several possibilities:
> 
> - Keep the BLOB in a variable and move the variable from the Server 
> to the Client.
> - Store the BLOB in a field (Record), the Client can access the 
> Record by e.g. a query.
> - Move the Document (not a BLOB) from the Server to the Client by use 
> of the Resources folder.
> 
> I see advantages/disadvantages for each of the solutions.
> 
> What works well for you?
> 
> Olivier
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
> Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech
> Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Februar 2017 08:23
> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR 
> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
> 
> Hello Olivier,
> 
> Blob to document And Document to blob with a method set to be 
> executed on server is an easy and reliable solution !
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Maurice Inzirillo
> --
> AJAR S.A.
> 
> 4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
> Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
> twitter: ajar_info
> Tél : +41 (0)323422684
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 07:45, flury olivier via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I am currently thinking of rewriting an existing document management 
>> system. What is the "best" way to move files from the clients to the 
>> server and back from the server to the client?
>> 
>> VARIABLE TO VARIABLE? Execute on Client / Execute on Server? Using a 
>> kind of caching table (store the last x used files)? ...
>> 
>> Gladly appreciate all sharing of experience.
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
>> G-Mail via 4D_Tech
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 23:55
>> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Cc: G-Mail 
>> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
>> 
>>> On 02/16/2017, at 11:09 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech 
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you like to exchange your know-how? I did similar system, and 
>>> there are some tricky parts in case of C/S.
>> 
>> 
>> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are 
>> different ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various 
>> security regulations therefore we changed some of the ways we did 
>> things over the 20 or so years that we had built it. Of course new 
>> technologies came along too that permitted us to change that up.
>> 
>> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jody Bevan
>> 
>> **
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Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

one caveat:
OS X 10.6 and 4D v12 
I have not tested on newer systems

I have had problems with very large files (500 meg and over).
Also - beside to "clean" your file names before trying to save them, 
this is especially true if your system(s) run ion a mixed platform 
environment. Windows can be very picky about file names.

here is some code to 'clean' file names.
(I hope any of the called other utility methods are self explanatory)

  //Project Method:  utl_File_Cleanup_Filenames
  // $1 - text - file NAME (only) to check for bad characters

  //looks for, and changes "bad" characters (determined by windows 
limits) to a dash ("-")

  //RETURNS - text - altered filename
  //• Created 6-15- 09 by Chip
  //• Updated 1/11/17 by Chip - replaced char 202 with char 160 for 
non-breaking space
  //difference between ascii and unicode, also check for trailing 
period
C_TEXT($1;$Source;$Bad_Characters;$0)
C_TEXT($Replacement_Character)
C_LONGINT($Bad_Char_Count;$i)

$Source:=$1
$Bad_Characters:="!$~[]/:;*?<>|#^'&()"+<>x_Quote+<>x_Cr+<>x_Tab+\
Char(Character code("•"))+Char(92)+Char(160)  //char 92 = \ , 
char(160)= 'hard' non breaking space"

$Replacement_Character:="-"
$Bad_Char_Count:=Length($Bad_Characters)

For ($i;1;$Bad_Char_Count)
$Source:=Replace 
string($Source;$Bad_Characters[[$i]];$Replacement_Character)
End for 

  //windows file names can not end with a period
$Source:=utl_text_Strip_Characters ($Source;"R";".")  //removes 
trailing '.'
$0:=utl_text_Strip_Characters ($Source)  //remove leading and trailing 
spaces
  //end

On Fri, 17 Feb 2017 08:22:53 +0100, Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR via 
4D_Tech wrote:
> Hello Olivier,
> 
> Blob to document And Document to blob with a method set to be 
> executed on server is an easy and reliable solution !
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Maurice Inzirillo
> -- 
> AJAR S.A.
> 
> 4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
> Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
> twitter: ajar_info
> Tél : +41 (0)323422684
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 07:45, flury olivier via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> I am currently thinking of rewriting an existing document management 
>> system. What is the "best" way to move files from the clients to the 
>> server and back from the server to the client?
>> 
>> VARIABLE TO VARIABLE? Execute on Client / Execute on Server? Using a 
>> kind of caching table (store the last x used files)? ...
>> 
>> Gladly appreciate all sharing of experience.
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
>> G-Mail via 4D_Tech
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 23:55
>> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Cc: G-Mail 
>> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
>> 
>>> On 02/16/2017, at 11:09 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech 
>>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you like to exchange your know-how? I did similar system, and 
>>> there are some tricky parts in case of C/S.
>> 
>> 
>> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are 
>> different ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various 
>> security regulations therefore we changed some of the ways we did 
>> things over the 20 or so years that we had built it. Of course new 
>> technologies came along too that permitted us to change that up.
>> 
>> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jody Bevan
>> 
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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> 
> **
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---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: [off] DreamWeaver replacement for maintaining 4D based website?

[Paul Dennis via 4D_Tech]

FWIW I use the lightning component on 4d and oxygen for editing and checking
syntax. However since Lightning uses templates I have found Stylizer
http://www.skybound.ca/ for edting css is the best thing since sliced bread
(if you hate css as much as I do).



--
View this message in context: 
http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/off-DreamWeaver-replacement-for-maintaining-4D-based-website-tp5733085p5750322.html
Sent from the 4D Tech mailing list archive at Nabble.com.
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Re: Permanently Sort Data

[Steven Prins via 4D_Tech]

Thanks to all who replied.  


Have not had time to explore the suggestions offered.  Although I have no 
previous experience with SQL, I look forward to experimenting with Miyako's 
sample code to sort data permanently.  I have considered, and will probably 
implement Chip's suggested alternative to sort data programmatically before 
presenting it to the user, which would not be very difficult to incorporate 
into my modular, generic search code.  But I was still curious as to whether or 
not this old functionality of 4D Tools could be replicated programmatically 
within subsequent versions of 4D.  



Thanks again.


Best from sunny Santa Fe,


Steven

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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 17 févr. 2017 à 14:54, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Has anyone else noticed a change in the list? When I view messages coming 
> from the list in Mail, the From field is always “4D iNUG Technical”, making 
> it difficult to see who actually sent the message. All messages since the one 
> sent by Jeff Kain on February 13 at 2:50 PM (subject “Re: Error Message”) 
> have been like this. However, I really do doubt it was Jeff’s fault. :-)
> 
> Previous to this time, all messages have the person who sent it in the From 
> field.
> 
> I can’t think of anything I changed on my end. Is anyone else seeing this?

I have this:
  To: 4D iNUG Technical <4D_Tech@lists.4D.com>
  From: Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
  Reply-To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
  Cc: Cannon Smith 
  Sender: "4D_Tech" <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>
In apple mail, the "from" column displays "Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech". 
The "via 4D_tech" is since 02/13/17, before I see:
  From: Cannon Smith 
  To: 4D iNUG Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
  Reply-To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
  Sender: "4D_Tech" <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 


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Re: iNUG List "From" Change

[Ken Geiger Gmail via 4D_Tech]

Apple mail shows the sender's name + "via 4D_Tech".

Sent from my iPhone

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 7:15 AM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Which mailer do you use? Apple Mail? Outlook on Windows shows something like 
> that:
> "4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>; im Auftrag von; Cannon Smith via 
> 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>" 
> 
> It's a German Outlook version, "im Auftrag von"  means "on behalf of".
> 
> In the headers there is presently (showing only a part):
> 
> MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\))
> Subject: iNUG List "From" Change
> Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 06:54:55 -0700
> To: 4D iNUG Technical <4D_Tech@lists.4D.com>
> List-Id: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech.lists.4d.com>
> List-Unsubscribe: ,
> 
> List-Post: 
> List-Help: 
> List-Subscribe: ,
> 
> From: Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Reply-To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Cannon Smith 
> Errors-To: 4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com
> Sender: "4D_Tech" <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>
> 
> Regards
> Lutz
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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RE: iNUG List "From" Change

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

Which mailer do you use? Apple Mail? Outlook on Windows shows something like 
that:
"4D_Tech <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>; im Auftrag von; Cannon Smith via 
4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>" 

It's a German Outlook version, "im Auftrag von"  means "on behalf of".

In the headers there is presently (showing only a part):

MIME-Version: 1.0 (Mac OS X Mail 10.2 \(3259\))
Subject: iNUG List "From" Change
Date: Fri, 17 Feb 2017 06:54:55 -0700
To: 4D iNUG Technical <4D_Tech@lists.4D.com>
List-Id: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech.lists.4d.com>
List-Unsubscribe: ,
 
List-Post: 
List-Help: 
List-Subscribe: ,
 
From: Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Reply-To: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Cannon Smith 
Errors-To: 4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com
Sender: "4D_Tech" <4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com>

Regards
Lutz
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iNUG List "From" Change

[Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech]

Has anyone else noticed a change in the list? When I view messages coming from 
the list in Mail, the From field is always “4D iNUG Technical”, making it 
difficult to see who actually sent the message. All messages since the one sent 
by Jeff Kain on February 13 at 2:50 PM (subject “Re: Error Message”) have been 
like this. However, I really do doubt it was Jeff’s fault. :-)

Previous to this time, all messages have the person who sent it in the From 
field.

I can’t think of anything I changed on my end. Is anyone else seeing this?

--
Cannon.Smith
Synergy Farm Solutions Inc.
Hill Spring, AB Canada
403-626-3236




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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile

[Jody Bevan via 4D_Tech]

Thanks for this discussion - keep posting your experiences and opinions. I have 
three 4D to the web interfaces that I will be working on late this year. I 
worked on one that we delivered in 2004 and enhanced over the years.

It seems that every six months is a generation for web tools. That is great in 
that it is advancing, but once the tool get 'old' it does nit advance.

Knowing what wants to develop is key, BUT knowing software requirements - that 
once it is developed much more will be wanted makes deciding on the tools all 
very hard.

Right now I think I would lean toward using a tool(s) that make the stated 
objectives as easy as possible. Then be looking to use tools that will give us 
much more control and long term advancement. Cost is obviously a factor.

Thanks all the contribute.


Sincerely
Jody Bevan
Argus Productions Inc.

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 04:14, Chris Curnow via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Yeah, I pretty much agree with you.
> 
> I’ve gone the other way and don’t use 4D at all. Just Wakanda and Angular.
> 
> Adding 4D to the mix makes it hard to develop the business case for it.
> 
> What I would say is if you want a web interface don’t use Wakanda Studio to 
> develop it. Wakanda Studio is really now just a prototyping tool.
> 
> Use Wakanda Server. It’s really really good.
> 
> But use some other framework for the client side.
> 
> I can recommend Angular (i.e. Angular 2) but there are other frameworks.
> 
> Best regards
> Chris
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Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

When I wrote a document management system, I used FTP to move files to correct 
locations, which included creating directory etc.
FTP is agnostic. No problem with bob to server etc. Another approach might be 
to create another table that holds document in a blob. On server have a process 
that runs every x minutes that moves these documents to correct location and 
then marks record available again

Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby 
notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, 
modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is 
strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person other than the 
intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, 
privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

> On Feb 17, 2017, at 5:53 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:55 PM, G-Mail via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> 
>> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are
>> different ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various security
>> regulations therefore we changed some of the ways we did things over the 20
>> or so years that we had built it. Of course new technologies came along too
>> that permitted us to change that up.
>> 
>> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>> 
> 
> What I do is not pass the file to client when record is loaded, it is moved
> to client only if needed. For example, if the file is an image, only
> thumbnail is part of record and moved to client, the file is transferred
> only if user wants to see image in original quality. There is a latency (I
> saw a 100MB inserted) that requires a user feedback and error handling.
> Then there are more complex cases, when user wants to edit file in external
> app etc.
> 
> -- 
> 
> Peter Bozek
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: Sierra 10.12.3

[Alan Chan via 4D_Tech]

Hi David,

It WORKS like a charm!

THANKS for sharing the tips.

Alan Chan

4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> writes:
>We ran into the v13 / MacBook Pro with touchbar crashing issue in Sierra 
>10.12.1 and 10.12.2.  The fix was maddeningly simple - instead of attempting 
>to connect to a remote database if you first choose to open a local database, 
>then cancel the file
>open window displayed in Finder you will be able to open remote databases 
>without crashing.
>
>David Stevenson
>Synergist Express Ltd

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Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech]

On Thu, Feb 16, 2017 at 11:55 PM, G-Mail via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
wrote:

> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are
> different ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various security
> regulations therefore we changed some of the ways we did things over the 20
> or so years that we had built it. Of course new technologies came along too
> that permitted us to change that up.
>
> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>

What I do is not pass the file to client when record is loaded, it is moved
to client only if needed. For example, if the file is an image, only
thumbnail is part of record and moved to client, the file is transferred
only if user wants to see image in original quality. There is a latency (I
saw a 100MB inserted) that requires a user feedback and error handling.
Then there are more complex cases, when user wants to edit file in external
app etc.

-- 

Peter Bozek
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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile

[Chris Curnow via 4D_Tech]

Yeah, I pretty much agree with you.

I’ve gone the other way and don’t use 4D at all. Just Wakanda and Angular.

Adding 4D to the mix makes it hard to develop the business case for it.

What I would say is if you want a web interface don’t use Wakanda Studio to 
develop it. Wakanda Studio is really now just a prototyping tool.

Use Wakanda Server. It’s really really good.

But use some other framework for the client side.

I can recommend Angular (i.e. Angular 2) but there are other frameworks.

Best regards
Chris

> On 17 Feb. 2017, at 8:43 pm, Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> When Wakanda was first released and the 4D mobile concept came about I got 
> really excited as I like you thought of all the small functions that I could 
> publish like little dashboards, public information, company news.  I was 
> never thinking lets re-write thousands of screens for internal users but via 
> a web page.
> 
> But like you I quickly realised that the licence cost made this type of 
> publication non viable.  For the type of function I would want to use I 
> would, in many cases, I have an unknown user base.
> 
> I thought that as I had already purchased a web server license and in some 
> cases also a web services license that I would have access to the nice 4D 
> Mobile REST services.  I stated 4 years ago and I still believe it today that 
> the decision that they made on licensing has held back adoption of the 4D 
> Mobile and Wakanda projects.  I simply have not been able to make a business 
> case for its use.  Whereas if it had been a simple license add on then I 
> would have been able to buy the connector and buy the Wakanda developer kit 
> and add the cost to the annual maintenance bill.
> 
> What I have done instead is use 4D’s web server and develop my own mini apps 
> to hang off it.  My next project longer term project which I just started is 
> to deliver a RESTful interface for a number of tables and functions so other 
> people can do the pretty front end bit and I can concentrate on the data.
> 
> Regards,  Dougie
> 
> 
> telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
> Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
> 2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
> Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com   Web : 
> http://www.telekinetix.com 
> 
> 
> 
> **
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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile

[Douglas Cryer via 4D_Tech]

When Wakanda was first released and the 4D mobile concept came about I got 
really excited as I like you thought of all the small functions that I could 
publish like little dashboards, public information, company news.  I was never 
thinking lets re-write thousands of screens for internal users but via a web 
page.

But like you I quickly realised that the licence cost made this type of 
publication non viable.  For the type of function I would want to use I would, 
in many cases, I have an unknown user base.

I thought that as I had already purchased a web server license and in some 
cases also a web services license that I would have access to the nice 4D 
Mobile REST services.  I stated 4 years ago and I still believe it today that 
the decision that they made on licensing has held back adoption of the 4D 
Mobile and Wakanda projects.  I simply have not been able to make a business 
case for its use.  Whereas if it had been a simple license add on then I would 
have been able to buy the connector and buy the Wakanda developer kit and add 
the cost to the annual maintenance bill.

What I have done instead is use 4D’s web server and develop my own mini apps to 
hang off it.  My next project longer term project which I just started is to 
deliver a RESTful interface for a number of tables and functions so other 
people can do the pretty front end bit and I can concentrate on the data.

Regards,  Dougie


telekinetix Limited- J. Douglas Cryer
Phone : 01234 761759  Mobile : 07973 675 218
2nd Floor Broadway House, 4-6 The Broadway, Bedford MK40 2TE
Email : jdcr...@telekinetix.com   Web : 
http://www.telekinetix.com 

 

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Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech]

And if you want to track where you store your files, you can save the path

In my case, I’m using a UUID as a file name, because I don’t care really about 
the file name of such file and in a 4D table “document” I store the uuid, the 
relative path, a time stamp, etc.

In top of this storing mechanism I’m using a Path generator which is defining a 
hierarchical path based on a max number of files to be stored in each folder.




Best regards,

Maurice Inzirillo
-- 
AJAR S.A.

4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
twitter: ajar_info
Tél : +41 (0)323422684




> On 17 Feb 2017, at 09:39, flury olivier via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Maurice,
> 
> That sounds reasonable. And how do you move the BLOB from the Server to the 
> Client?
> 
> I see several possibilities:
> 
> - Keep the BLOB in a variable and move the variable from the Server to the 
> Client.
> - Store the BLOB in a field (Record), the Client can access the Record by 
> e.g. a query.
> - Move the Document (not a BLOB) from the Server to the Client by use of the 
> Resources folder.
> 
> I see advantages/disadvantages for each of the solutions.
> 
> What works well for you?
> 
> Olivier
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von Maurice 
> Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech
> Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Februar 2017 08:23
> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR 
> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
> 
> Hello Olivier,
> 
> Blob to document And Document to blob with a method set to be executed on 
> server is an easy and reliable solution !
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Maurice Inzirillo
> --
> AJAR S.A.
> 
> 4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
> Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
> twitter: ajar_info
> Tél : +41 (0)323422684
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 07:45, flury olivier via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am currently thinking of rewriting an existing document management system. 
>> What is the "best" way to move files from the clients to the server and back 
>> from the server to the client?
>> 
>> VARIABLE TO VARIABLE? Execute on Client / Execute on Server? Using a kind of 
>> caching table (store the last x used files)? ...
>> 
>> Gladly appreciate all sharing of experience.
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
>> G-Mail via 4D_Tech
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 23:55
>> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Cc: G-Mail 
>> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
>> 
>>> On 02/16/2017, at 11:09 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you like to exchange your know-how? I did similar system, and 
>>> there are some tricky parts in case of C/S.
>> 
>> 
>> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are different 
>> ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various security regulations 
>> therefore we changed some of the ways we did things over the 20 or so years 
>> that we had built it. Of course new technologies came along too that 
>> permitted us to change that up.
>> 
>> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jody Bevan
>> 
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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>> 
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> 
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Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech]

No no no


the blob is sent automagically by 4D.

Nothing to do. Your parameters are sent by 4D to the server to be executed.


Best regards,

Maurice Inzirillo
-- 
AJAR S.A.

4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
twitter: ajar_info
Tél : +41 (0)323422684




> On 17 Feb 2017, at 09:39, flury olivier via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> Hi Maurice,
> 
> That sounds reasonable. And how do you move the BLOB from the Server to the 
> Client?
> 
> I see several possibilities:
> 
> - Keep the BLOB in a variable and move the variable from the Server to the 
> Client.
> - Store the BLOB in a field (Record), the Client can access the Record by 
> e.g. a query.
> - Move the Document (not a BLOB) from the Server to the Client by use of the 
> Resources folder.
> 
> I see advantages/disadvantages for each of the solutions.
> 
> What works well for you?
> 
> Olivier
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von Maurice 
> Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech
> Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Februar 2017 08:23
> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR 
> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
> 
> Hello Olivier,
> 
> Blob to document And Document to blob with a method set to be executed on 
> server is an easy and reliable solution !
> 
> 
> 
> Best regards,
> 
> Maurice Inzirillo
> --
> AJAR S.A.
> 
> 4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
> Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
> twitter: ajar_info
> Tél : +41 (0)323422684
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 17 Feb 2017, at 07:45, flury olivier via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> I am currently thinking of rewriting an existing document management system. 
>> What is the "best" way to move files from the clients to the server and back 
>> from the server to the client?
>> 
>> VARIABLE TO VARIABLE? Execute on Client / Execute on Server? Using a kind of 
>> caching table (store the last x used files)? ...
>> 
>> Gladly appreciate all sharing of experience.
>> 
>> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
>> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
>> G-Mail via 4D_Tech
>> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 23:55
>> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
>> Cc: G-Mail 
>> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
>> 
>>> On 02/16/2017, at 11:09 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> Would you like to exchange your know-how? I did similar system, and 
>>> there are some tricky parts in case of C/S.
>> 
>> 
>> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are different 
>> ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various security regulations 
>> therefore we changed some of the ways we did things over the 20 or so years 
>> that we had built it. Of course new technologies came along too that 
>> permitted us to change that up.
>> 
>> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Jody Bevan
>> 
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> **
>> 
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
>> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
>> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
>> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
>> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
>> **
> 
> **
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> 
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AW: Question about storing data outside of datafile

[flury olivier via 4D_Tech]

Hi Maurice,

That sounds reasonable. And how do you move the BLOB from the Server to the 
Client?

I see several possibilities:

- Keep the BLOB in a variable and move the variable from the Server to the 
Client.
- Store the BLOB in a field (Record), the Client can access the Record by e.g. 
a query.
- Move the Document (not a BLOB) from the Server to the Client by use of the 
Resources folder.

I see advantages/disadvantages for each of the solutions.

What works well for you?

Olivier

-Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von Maurice 
Inzirillo - AJAR via 4D_Tech
Gesendet: Freitag, 17. Februar 2017 08:23
An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
Cc: Maurice Inzirillo - AJAR 
Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile

Hello Olivier,

Blob to document And Document to blob with a method set to be executed on 
server is an easy and reliable solution !



Best regards,

Maurice Inzirillo
--
AJAR S.A.

4D v16: http://www.ajar.ch/
Wakanda Wednesday Lab : http://www.ajar.ch/wwl
twitter: ajar_info
Tél : +41 (0)323422684




> On 17 Feb 2017, at 07:45, flury olivier via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> I am currently thinking of rewriting an existing document management system. 
> What is the "best" way to move files from the clients to the server and back 
> from the server to the client?
> 
> VARIABLE TO VARIABLE? Execute on Client / Execute on Server? Using a kind of 
> caching table (store the last x used files)? ...
> 
> Gladly appreciate all sharing of experience.
> 
> -Ursprüngliche Nachricht-
> Von: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] Im Auftrag von 
> G-Mail via 4D_Tech
> Gesendet: Donnerstag, 16. Februar 2017 23:55
> An: 4D iNug Technical <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> Cc: G-Mail 
> Betreff: Re: Question about storing data outside of datafile
> 
>> On 02/16/2017, at 11:09 AM, Peter Bozek via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Would you like to exchange your know-how? I did similar system, and 
>> there are some tricky parts in case of C/S.
> 
> 
> There is lots of decisions we made for our purposes, and there are different 
> ways to do things for sure. We had to meet various security regulations 
> therefore we changed some of the ways we did things over the 20 or so years 
> that we had built it. Of course new technologies came along too that 
> permitted us to change that up.
> 
> Is there something specific that you are wanting to discuss?
> 
> 
> 
> Jody Bevan
> 
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> **
> 
> **
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> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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Re: Understanding 4D Mobile...

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

We use 4D internally. Some of our people like web interfaces better than 
straight 4D. With that in mind, we created a web interface using 4D 
Mobile/Wakanda to allow users to easily add simple info to identify credit card 
charges they make.

For this, 4D Mobile/Wakanda works fantastically. Its really a simple web 
editable version of a 4D output form. But, I guess like with anything web 
related, it get’s very complex very quickly after that with much needed 
knowledge of JS and Wankanda.

And as you mention, licensing is an issue. Be sure you have extra wakanda user 
licenses as sometimes it takes awhile for one user to timeout. I think you get 
2 wakanda/4D mobile license for the same cost as one normal 4D user license.

I don’t see 4D mobile being viable for a general web app because of the license 
cost, but I’m never going to use it for that anyway.

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Feb 16, 2017, 6:09 PM -1000, Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>, wrote:
Not such a hot topic I see…. :)

R

On Feb 16, 2017, at 12:53 PM, Robert ListMail via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

Care to describe 4DM and explain how Wakanda and/or 4DM fits into your strategy?

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