font color with disabled 3D button

[Piotr Chabot Stadhouders via 4D_Tech]

Hi,

We are setting a font color for 3D buttons

However, when the button is disabled on Windows this font color becomes gray, 
but on OSX the color stays the same as the original color

Is this normal behavior (So the behavior on OSX and Windows differs) ?

Gr,

Piotr

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Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

I finally got around to checking, and LOG EVENT is not a thread-safe
command. Pity! It would be very handy if this command were usable from a
preemptive process as it would give us a great way to stream log data out
to the system for collection by an "agentless" (cough-cough) tool like
Loggly.

Given the open bug that prevents me from rolling log files safely, I've got
to use memory-based solutions to get logs out of 4D. Since LOG EVENT isn't
usable preemptively, I'm down to HTTP Get/Request pushing data over HTTP to
the Loggly API. Not ideal, but that's the only thing that I can figure
that's even workable from a preemptive process at the moment.

If anyone else cares and agrees, would you mind posting a feature request
on the Forums to make LOG EVENT thread-safe? Or, if not, to tell us
definitively that LOG EVENT falls into the too hard basket. If I'm never
going to get a feature, it's better to know sooner rather than later.
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RE: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

A question:
What other approaches did you try to implement a logging feature using 
preemptive threads. I'm pretty sure there is something buried in the threads of 
this mailinglist but I'm not able to find it.

Thanks
Lutz Epperlein

> -Original Message-
> From: 4D_Tech [mailto:4d_tech-boun...@lists.4d.com] On Behalf Of David Adams 
> via
> 4D_Tech
> I finally got around to checking, and LOG EVENT is not a thread-safe
> command. Pity! It would be very handy if this command were usable from a
> preemptive process as it would give us a great way to stream log data out
> to the system for collection by an "agentless" (cough-cough) tool like
> Loggly.
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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 10:43 AM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) <
lutz.epperl...@agendo.de> wrote:

> A question:
> What other approaches did you try to implement a logging feature using
> preemptive threads. I'm pretty sure there is something buried in the
> threads of this mailinglist but I'm not able to find it.
>
>
I would very likely have used files and an external collector...but this
didn't work out. Within 15 minutes of trying this, I discovered that it's
*very* easy to throw 4D into a fatal race condition when rolling log files.
(It's also possible in cooperative mode, for that matter.) I created a
database that reproduces the error within about a minute of running.
Submitted and, I'm told, accepted during version 16.0. Since then, zero
news and no change. So, for now, I can't rely on files because there is
*no* way to log to files if you can't safely roll them without bringing
down the server.

On macOS, I saw the system pushing errors and launching workers over and
over until I had to force quit it. Wayne Stewart tried it out on Windows
where it crashed 4D. This is for a Windows deployment, for what it's worth.
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RE: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech]

I asked because we use a little own implementation of writing log files. This 
is all before V16. We use semaphores to avoid race conditions while writing to 
the file. 
And one of our first projects after updating to V16 should be the rewriting of 
this code using workers. So I'm a bit disappointed to hear that.

Regards
Lutz
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Re: METHOD OPEN PATH Equivalent For Forms

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 24 sept. 2017 à 05:53, Jim Labos - infobase via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a écrit :
> 
> I asked the same question and got same answer a few months back.
> 
> Maybe if we push enough they will add it in?





push * 3…

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 


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Re: Server Process "Frozen"-ish

[Koen Van Hooreweghe via 4D_Tech]

Dani,

We’ve had the same problem. After switching from v15 to v16 (both 64bit) the 
server crashed regularly upon creation of PDF documents with PDF Creator.
We planned to move the batch generation of those pdf docs to a separate client, 
but forgot to change some settings causing some types of docs still being 
generated on the server.
This is a W10 server.

On another site running the same app, but using W2008 no issues reported so far 
(running for some weeks).

Did not investigate further because the client is running fine and we plan to 
move away from PDF Creator.

Kind regards,
Koen

> Op 11 sep. 2017, om 15:32 heeft Dani Beaubien via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> het volgende geschreven:
> 
> We have run into issues where the server is running on windows 64bit and it 
> is producing PDFs using PDF Creator directly. Our solution was to move away 
> from doing that and using php and FPDF to create the PDFs instead.




Compass bvba
Koen Van Hooreweghe
Kloosterstraat 65
9910 Knesselare
Belgium
tel +32 495 511.653

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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
I asked because we use a little own implementation of writing log files.
This is all before V16. We use semaphores to avoid race conditions while
writing to the file.
And one of our first projects after updating to V16 should be the rewriting
of this code using workers. So I'm a bit disappointed to hear that.

Yes, centralizing a log writer seems like the most obvious use of a worker,
so I also was disappointed. But perhaps I'm wrong? It would not be the
first time that I've done something stupid. Just in case I'm missing
something obvious, I've posted a copy of the test database I've used to
demonstrate the bug here:

http://www.4dcompanion.com/LogWorker.zip

It's a crude test database. What I was doing is compiling it and running
LogWorker_CallABunch_Coop or LogWorker_Test_Preemptive.

The test isn't to see if you can use CALL WORKER to execute code that
passes a log entry to a worker.
You can.

The test isn't to see if you can then keep the log file open just in the
worker to avoid contention on the file.
You can.

The test is to see what happens when you need to "roll" the log. Namely,
close the current log, rename it and open a new log.
This is where things go sideways.

If I remember correctly, I've retested this as far as 16.2 and R3 but not
R4. Perhaps a fresh set of eyes would help here. I do see that I tried
putting in a 3 second delay when rolling the log in case that gave 4D
and/or the OS a chance to catch up. Didn't help.

So, if I'm doing something foolish and wrong *please* tell me. I hate being
wrong, but I'd also rather know when I'm wrong. So, yeah, let me know. If
there's another way to approach this that's reliable, also please say. If
that way requires semaphores then, well, nothat kind of defeats the
whole purpose. At that point, I'd use non-preemptive code with NTK IPC
channels. That's been working flawlessly for years.

One thing: Any solution has to be 100% reliable. For server-side code like
this, a success rate of 99.9% isn't even close. When an error can bring the
server down, it's a non-starter. Particularly an error that's super easy to
generate.

The truth is that I'd really like to use disk files for logs. They're
simple, lightweight, cheap and robust. You can feed them into your
aggregator of choice in a million different ways, they take up no room in
the database, you can resume posting of entries after a crash, they're just
a solid choice. Hence, their near-universal popularity.

P.S. I know that using CALL WORKER inevitably means some log entries will
be lost during restart. That's an acceptable cost in this particular case.
Crashing/freezing the server is not.
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Re: Listbox Column Font Color Change

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 23 sept. 2017 à 22:42, Cannon Smith via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> Does this work for you?
> 
> $lDesiredFontColor:=0x00CC  //Or whatever grey you are after
> OBJECT GET RGB COLORS(*;Widget;$lForeground;$lBackground;$lAltBackground)
> OBJECT SET RGB 
> COLORS(*;Widget;$lDesiredFontColor;$lBackground;$lAltBackground)
> 
> Then you don’t have to guess what the background scheme is.

There is also the value -255, means "leave unchanged" - see § "Managing styles 
and colors" in this page:


-- 
Arnaud de Montard 


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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Douglas

I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich 
framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time context 
it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!

 At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i can 
say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas on all 
my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the framework 
in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto field based 
listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to listbox if you you 
want to farm the job out). 



Nigel Greenlee




> On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Sannyasin:
> 
> "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
> 
> I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does what
> I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
> grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
> from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
> 
> In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
> allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky UI
> things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
> work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
> so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
> 
> BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
> hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that would
> be a piece of cake.
> 
> 
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
> 
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
>> 
>> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
>> 
>> 
>> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
>> decades…
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>> 
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v13+ - Feature or bug?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

I am working on importing a text file.
I inadvertently closed the document.

After closing the document, the command Get document Size(Document 
reference)
returns a valid number for the file in question.

ex:
$Doc_Ref:=Open document("")

If ($Doc_Ref#?00:00:00?)
RECEIVE PACKET($Doc_Ref;$Temp_Text;15000)
CLOSE DOCUMENT($Doc_Ref)
End if 
$File_Size:=Get document size($Doc_Ref)+Get document size($Doc_Ref;*)

$File_Size is set to the correct value for the file in question.
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

Please forgive me if I’m being dim, but isn’t a solution (maybe not the best, 
but a solution) to maintain the log as records in a table, which is 
periodically emptied into a file by a process which opens, writes and closes 
that file, then deletes the records in the table?

It’s not an approach which I’ve tried, and you may have good reasons for 
rejecting it. I’m just curious to know what they are.

Jeremy

Jeremy Roussak
j...@mac.com



> On 25 Sep 2017, at 13:57, David Adams via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Epperlein, Lutz (agendo) via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> I asked because we use a little own implementation of writing log files.
> This is all before V16. We use semaphores to avoid race conditions while
> writing to the file.
> And one of our first projects after updating to V16 should be the rewriting
> of this code using workers. So I'm a bit disappointed to hear that.
> 
> Yes, centralizing a log writer seems like the most obvious use of a worker,
> so I also was disappointed. But perhaps I'm wrong? It would not be the
> first time that I've done something stupid. Just in case I'm missing
> something obvious, I've posted a copy of the test database I've used to
> demonstrate the bug here:
> 
> http://www.4dcompanion.com/LogWorker.zip
> 
> It's a crude test database. What I was doing is compiling it and running
> LogWorker_CallABunch_Coop or LogWorker_Test_Preemptive.
> 
> The test isn't to see if you can use CALL WORKER to execute code that
> passes a log entry to a worker.
> You can.
> 
> The test isn't to see if you can then keep the log file open just in the
> worker to avoid contention on the file.
> You can.
> 
> The test is to see what happens when you need to "roll" the log. Namely,
> close the current log, rename it and open a new log.
> This is where things go sideways.
> 
> If I remember correctly, I've retested this as far as 16.2 and R3 but not
> R4. Perhaps a fresh set of eyes would help here. I do see that I tried
> putting in a 3 second delay when rolling the log in case that gave 4D
> and/or the OS a chance to catch up. Didn't help.
> 
> So, if I'm doing something foolish and wrong *please* tell me. I hate being
> wrong, but I'd also rather know when I'm wrong. So, yeah, let me know. If
> there's another way to approach this that's reliable, also please say. If
> that way requires semaphores then, well, nothat kind of defeats the
> whole purpose. At that point, I'd use non-preemptive code with NTK IPC
> channels. That's been working flawlessly for years.
> 
> One thing: Any solution has to be 100% reliable. For server-side code like
> this, a success rate of 99.9% isn't even close. When an error can bring the
> server down, it's a non-starter. Particularly an error that's super easy to
> generate.
> 
> The truth is that I'd really like to use disk files for logs. They're
> simple, lightweight, cheap and robust. You can feed them into your
> aggregator of choice in a million different ways, they take up no room in
> the database, you can resume posting of entries after a crash, they're just
> a solid choice. Hence, their near-universal popularity.
> 
> P.S. I know that using CALL WORKER inevitably means some log entries will
> be lost during restart. That's an acceptable cost in this particular case.
> Crashing/freezing the server is not.
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: v13+ - Feature or bug?

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 25 sept. 2017 à 16:57, Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a 
> écrit :
> 
> I am working on importing a text file.
> I inadvertently closed the document.
> 
> After closing the document, the command Get document Size(Document 
> reference)
> returns a valid number for the file in question.

I've never used a document reference with this command, always the path… 
So I don't have to bother about a possible bug with reference  ;-)

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 




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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Nigel:

It sounds like list boxes suit your needs. Good to hear that.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:50 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Douglas
>
> I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich
> framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time
> context it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!
>
>  At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i
> can say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas
> on all my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the
> framework in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto
> field based listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to
> listbox if you you want to farm the job out).
>
>
>
> Nigel Greenlee
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sannyasin:
> >
> > "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> > close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in
> Listboxes
> > for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing
> for
> > this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
> >
> > I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does
> what
> > I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
> > grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
> > from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
> >
> > In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
> > allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky
> UI
> > things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
> > work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
> > so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
> >
> > BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
> > hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that
> would
> > be a piece of cake.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Douglas von Roeder
> > 949-336-2902
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
> >>
> >> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> >> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in
> Listboxes
> >> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing
> for
> >> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
> >>
> >>
> >> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> >>
> >> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a
> couple of
> >> decades…
> >> **
> >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> >> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> >> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> >> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
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> >> **
> >>
> > **
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RE: 4D v16 issues - speed on VM

[Mike Beatty via 4D_Tech]

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 5:49 PM, 4d_tech-requ...@lists.4d.com wrote:
> 
> I ask because we have been upgrading our customers to V15 R5 and are seeing 
> the opposite, especially on all our VM systems.


I can confirm speed issues with v15 and VM machines — verified on multiple 
servers, with different databases. I had posted an earlier message some time 
ago, but can’t find in reviewing past email.

Mike
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Win32API 8.2.0 Release

[Seth Leeper via 4D_Tech]

Win32API version 8.2.0 is available now on GitHub.

Changes in this version:

* Security enhancements.

* Updated Win32API to include Orchard Utilities 1.17.518.0 and TWAIN 1.2.0.



You can download this and previous versions from GitHub:



Seth Leeper

Software Engineer

Orchard Software Corporation

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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Please forgive me if I’m being dim, but isn’t a solution (maybe not the
> best, but a solution) to maintain the log as records in a table, which is
> periodically emptied into a file by a process which opens, writes and
> closes that file, then deletes the records in the table?
>
> It’s not an approach which I’ve tried, and you may have good reasons for
> rejecting it. I’m just curious to know what they are.
>
>
Jeremy,

Using a 4D table as a sort of cache for log lines is a perfectly sensible
idea, but also one I'd like to avoid. I did this some years back in a very
high-volume system and ended up killing a lot of performance as a
consequence. (Just ask Justin Leavens.) Now, you could take steps to reduce
the network activity involved, to be sure, but there are still a few points
that come to mind:

* 4D doesn't do well (or at least hasn't historically done well) with
tables that get thrashed a lot. Add-delete-add-delete. Gets really slow and
horrible. So then you have to do compacts, or hijinks with reusing records,
or all kinds of special magic with never deleting records. Life is too
short for any of that, if at all avoidable.

* There's no _real_ reason to have the data in 4D at any point. 4D isn't an
analysis platform and it isn't something that I'd use for
high-volume/low-data-content material like log entries. So, there's no good
reason for it to be in 4D other than as a cache. I would consider using a
small table as a cache for storing lines that didn't upload/output to a log
file, but only if the % of failure was pretty low.

* With a post-to-table-log-and-clear system, you now need a process to poll
the table. You can do this in a way that is relatively inexpensive, but
it's not free.

* Potentially lots of network traffic for zero gain.

But there are tons of ways to think about this sort of thing, and lots of
different setups and requirements. My judgment calls and current
constraints are likely different to what other people are dealing with. So,
there are plenty of good arguments for any particular design. I'm just
trying to be clear that while I'm not keen on the approach you suggest in
this case, it's not because I think it's inherently bad - I've used it
before. It's just that in this case I don't want the log data in 4D, if at
all possible. I see that as pure cost with no gain.

Hopefully, someone will find something silly in what I'm doing as the CALL
WORKER idea is really ver nice. You have n processes doing their thing -
running code, serving Web requests, handling windows, etc. Then they can
send log data (events, behaviors, errors, etc.) over to a central log
worker. Using CALL WORKER, this is quite fast. (4D can stack up tons of
these little requests quite well.) From there, you've got one process
handling all of the log data. A single external file for a particular log
is perfect at this point. It's fast and super easy to use. The whole point
of using a single process for this is to avoid contention on the file
amongst processes. That can otherwise be a *huge* and totally unworthy
bottleneck. So, one process for logging which has the file open in
read-write all the time. So good. Such a standard design. Simple, clean,
cheap, efficient...doesn't work in 4D. Unless there's a bug in my bug
report ;-)
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

I too made the switch a year or so ago. For me it was relatively easy as, is my 
habit, I wrapped nearly all the AeaList commands and so only had to modify my 
wrapping methods to make the switch. I have not looked back and to date have 
not found anything I could do with AreaList that I could not make happen in a 
Listbox.

ALPro is great and super feature rich but ListBoxes are really much simpler to 
configure and use. After the switch I discovered using Named Selections for the 
source of a listbox. Don’t remember if AreaList Pro had this functionality, 
don’t think so, but having multiple list boxes on the same form displaying 
different selections from the same table without using arrays makes, for me, 
the switch well worth the effort.

John


> On Sep 25, 2017, at 3:50 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Douglas
> 
> I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich 
> framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time 
> context it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!
> 
> At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i can 
> say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas on 
> all my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the 
> framework in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto 
> field based listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to listbox 
> if you you want to farm the job out). 
> 
> 
> 
> Nigel Greenlee
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Sannyasin:
>> 
>> "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
>> 
>> I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does what
>> I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
>> grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
>> from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
>> 
>> In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
>> allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky UI
>> things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
>> work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
>> so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
>> 
>> BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
>> hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that would
>> be a piece of cake.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Douglas von Roeder
>> 949-336-2902
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
>>> 
>>> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
>>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
>>> decades…
>>> **
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>> **
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John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: 4D v16 issues

[Chuck Miller via 4D_Tech]

You might but be aware if you use cross table reports in quick reports, they 
are not as yet available in 64 bit client. If you compile 64 bit server and 32 
bit client on macs you use the new network layer

Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
 mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  

This message and any attached documents contain information which may be 
confidential, subject to privilege or exempt from disclosure under applicable 
law.  These materials are intended only for the use of the intended recipient. 
If you are not the intended recipient of this transmission, you are hereby 
notified that any distribution, disclosure, printing, copying, storage, 
modification or the taking of any action in reliance upon this transmission is 
strictly prohibited.  Delivery of this message to any person other than the 
intended recipient shall not compromise or waive such confidentiality, 
privilege or exemption from disclosure as to this communication. 

> On Sep 22, 2017, at 5:58 PM, Tim Nevels via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> And since you are using the legacy network that means you are still running 
> 32bit 4D Client. If you want to run 64bit client — macOS or Windows — you are 
> required to use the new network layer. Is that your understand too?
> 
> I would think you would get an additional, small speed bump if you ran 64bit 
> 4D Client. Is that your understand too?
> 
> Tim

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Re: Is it possible to put a SVG file directly on a form?

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

The only way to display the SVG in a form that I know of is in a picture 
variable or field. 

Using SVG_Export_To_picture, store the SVG in a picture field or variable and 
display it on the form.

I store the SVG in a field. On a form I retrieve the SVG from the picture field 
with SVG_Open_picture then display it in the form in a picture variable with 
SVG_Export_To_picture. I can then update the SVG based on user inputs and 
display the changes in real time in the form’s picture variable using 
SVG_Export_To_picture. When the record is saved the SVG is sent back to the 
field with SVG_Export_To_picture.

Hope that helps.

John

> On Sep 24, 2017, at 12:51 PM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> 
> wrote:
> 
> or does it have to be converted to a picture?
> 
> -- 
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> ===
> 
> *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> nothing.*
> 
> *- Edmund Burke*
> **
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John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Arnaud de Montard via 4D_Tech]

> Le 24 sept. 2017 à 04:40, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> a écrit :
> 
> Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as that 
> would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?

Use unbreakable space instead, it works (alt+space with keyboard, char code = 
0x00A0 / 160). 

-- 
Arnaud de Montard 




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v13+ is there a size limit to receive packet?

[Chip Scheide via 4D_Tech]

Is there a limit to how much can be read in one 'chunk' via Receive 
Packet?
(form : Receive Packet(Document_reference;Variable;number_of_Characters)

I am trying to test some code which is attempting to import text from a 
file.
In this case the file is known to be larger then 4D can handle as one 
text/blob. File size is 3.6gb.

So.. I am trying to read into text array elements. This may end up 
being a futile task, but I want to try  :/

I tried Receive Pack with a character count of 1.6gb (maxlong - 
450,000,000) - 4D Chokes, regardless of memory given to the process -- 
somewhat expected. So, smaller blocks of text at one time.
Shift down the size of the block read by a factor of 10 (169meg). 4D 
now will read in the block, yea!
but Receive Packet fails after the 4th iteration on the loop. No error 
code is generated (there is an error handler running) 4 * 169mb # 
3.6gb, OK variable is simply set to 0, which terminates the repeat loop.

I almost forgot, one more complicating factor, the method doing the 
work is in a component.
CODE:


ON ERR CALL("err_File_Errors")

If ($Doc_Ref#?00:00:00?)
$Max_Text_Length:=2*10^9
$File_Size:=Get document size($Doc_Ref)+Get document size($Doc_Ref;*)

If ($File_Size>$Max_Text_Length) & (Not($Filling_Array)) & 
(Not(Nil($Errors)))
utl_errtxt_Add ("File size exceeds capacity of the text variable. First 
2GB of data imported.")
End if 
End if 
$Block_Size:=Int(1.5*(10^8))  //150 megs
SET TIMEOUT(1)  //insure that if there is a problem, a time out occurs

$Pole_ID:=utl_thrm_Start_Barber_Pole ("Reading Data from File...")
  //load the array with text in 150meg blocks
Repeat 

Case of 
: ($Filling_Array)
APPEND TO ARRAY($Text_to_Fill->;"")

If ($Doc_Ref#?00:00:00?)
RECEIVE PACKET($Doc_Ref;$Text_to_Fill->{Size of 
array($Text_to_Fill->)};$Block_Size)
Else 
RECEIVE PACKET($Text_to_Fill->{Size of 
array($Text_to_Fill->)};$Block_Size)
End if 
$Exit_Loop:=(OK=0)
  //code not involved removed
End case 
Until ($Exit_Loop)  //receive packet fails, or text var is full
---
Gas is for washing parts
Alcohol is for drinkin'
Nitromethane is for racing 
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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[Doug Hall via 4D_Tech]

Not having my server crash sounds like a very good reason to use records.
At least until a better solution comes along.

My 2¢

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 1:03 PM, David Adams via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:06 PM, Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > Please forgive me if I’m being dim, but isn’t a solution (maybe not the
> > best, but a solution) to maintain the log as records in a table, which is
> > periodically emptied into a file by a process which opens, writes and
> > closes that file, then deletes the records in the table?
> >
> > It’s not an approach which I’ve tried, and you may have good reasons for
> > rejecting it. I’m just curious to know what they are.
> >
> >
> Jeremy,
>
> Using a 4D table as a sort of cache for log lines is a perfectly sensible
> idea, but also one I'd like to avoid. I did this some years back in a very
> high-volume system and ended up killing a lot of performance as a
> consequence. (Just ask Justin Leavens.) Now, you could take steps to reduce
> the network activity involved, to be sure, but there are still a few points
> that come to mind:
>
> * 4D doesn't do well (or at least hasn't historically done well) with
> tables that get thrashed a lot. Add-delete-add-delete. Gets really slow and
> horrible. So then you have to do compacts, or hijinks with reusing records,
> or all kinds of special magic with never deleting records. Life is too
> short for any of that, if at all avoidable.
>
> * There's no _real_ reason to have the data in 4D at any point. 4D isn't an
> analysis platform and it isn't something that I'd use for
> high-volume/low-data-content material like log entries. So, there's no good
> reason for it to be in 4D other than as a cache. I would consider using a
> small table as a cache for storing lines that didn't upload/output to a log
> file, but only if the % of failure was pretty low.
>
> * With a post-to-table-log-and-clear system, you now need a process to poll
> the table. You can do this in a way that is relatively inexpensive, but
> it's not free.
>
> * Potentially lots of network traffic for zero gain.
>
> But there are tons of ways to think about this sort of thing, and lots of
> different setups and requirements. My judgment calls and current
> constraints are likely different to what other people are dealing with. So,
> there are plenty of good arguments for any particular design. I'm just
> trying to be clear that while I'm not keen on the approach you suggest in
> this case, it's not because I think it's inherently bad - I've used it
> before. It's just that in this case I don't want the log data in 4D, if at
> all possible. I see that as pure cost with no gain.
>
> Hopefully, someone will find something silly in what I'm doing as the CALL
> WORKER idea is really ver nice. You have n processes doing their thing -
> running code, serving Web requests, handling windows, etc. Then they can
> send log data (events, behaviors, errors, etc.) over to a central log
> worker. Using CALL WORKER, this is quite fast. (4D can stack up tons of
> these little requests quite well.) From there, you've got one process
> handling all of the log data. A single external file for a particular log
> is perfect at this point. It's fast and super easy to use. The whole point
> of using a single process for this is to avoid contention on the file
> amongst processes. That can otherwise be a *huge* and totally unworthy
> bottleneck. So, one process for logging which has the file open in
> read-write all the time. So good. Such a standard design. Simple, clean,
> cheap, efficient...doesn't work in 4D. Unless there's a bug in my bug
> report ;-)
> **
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Re: Is it possible to put a SVG file directly on a form?

[Jeremy French via 4D_Tech]

Kirk, 

Have you tried:

1) Place SVG file in database’s “Resources” folder.
2) Restart 4D.
3) Locate SVG file in "Design -> Tool Box -> Resources".
4) Drag SVG from the Tool Box’s "Resources” window to the form.
5) Resize SVG as needed.

Note the Property Inspector’s “Name/ID” attribute records the path to SVG file.

- Jeremy French


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[OFF] Mac OS High Sierra PHP and Apache Versions & 15.4 compatibilty

[Perkins, Bradley D via 4D_Tech]

If anyone has installed the just released version of Mac OS High Sierra can you 
confirm which versions of Apache and PHP are installed?

$ http -v
$ php -v

I have a customer that runs a 4D web system on Sierra and their IT/Cyber people 
have complained the installed versions Apache 2.4.25 and PHP 5.6.30 are 
vulnerable and are threatening network blocks. If High Sierra provides 
compliant versions we might update them.

More importantly  4D 15.4 certified for High Sierra? Any known problems.

Thanks,

Brad Perkins
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Re: Is it possible to put a SVG file directly on a form?

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Hi Jim,
Thanks for the reply. I recall some discussion a while ago when I was
having issues with text resolution in SVG I was creating and then rendering
into pics. Someone (Miyako?) mentioned placing the file directly on the
form. The thing I wanted was to preserver the 'scalable' part of the SVG.
Plus the files are really small natively. I'm playing with icons again and
looking for a way to embed the files without having to create pic vars.


On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 11:25 PM, Jim Dorrance via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Of course you can display the source in a text variable (either visible or
> invisible) on a form if you need to save the SVG temporarily. What are you
> trying to do?
>
> On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 12:51 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > or does it have to be converted to a picture?
> >
> > --
> > Kirk Brooks
> > San Francisco, CA
> > ===
> >
> > *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> > nothing.*
> >
> > *- Edmund Burke*
> > **
> > 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> > FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> > Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
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> > **
>
>
>
>
> --
> Jim Dorrance
> jim.dorra...@gmail.com
> 4...@dorrance.eu
> www.4d.dorrance.eu
>
> PS: If you know of anyone that needs an experienced 4D programmer to add
> energy and experience to their team, please let me know. I have
> experience in many areas. Reasonable rates. Remote or Paris only.
> **
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-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

> Not having my server crash sounds like a very good reason to use records.
> At least until a better solution comes along.

Plan B in this case is to push the data to Loggly via HTTP.

As stupid as it sounds, another option is to push the log entries to
something else locally - even a stand-alone built 4D app - and let it write
the disk files. Then you could use a service with a custom agent, like
SumoLogic or Splunk. Actually, that's not a terrible idea at all...who
cares if that data file gets bloaty? Clear it out, throw it out, start a
new one.
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Re: Making LOG EVENT thread-safe

[David Adams via 4D_Tech]

> At least until a better solution comes along.

I have zero reason to assume that this bug will ever be fixed.
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