Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Malcolm Stone via 4D_Tech]

Mon, 25 Sep 2017, Arnaud de Montard said:
> Use unbreakable space instead, it works (alt+space with keyboard, char code = 
> 0x00A0 / 160). 

I have tried and tried this without success. 
Forgetting about number format, even a text field (horizontal alignment = 
right) will not display trailing spaces.
-
Malcolm
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

I too made the switch a year or so ago. For me it was relatively easy as, is my 
habit, I wrapped nearly all the AeaList commands and so only had to modify my 
wrapping methods to make the switch. I have not looked back and to date have 
not found anything I could do with AreaList that I could not make happen in a 
Listbox.

ALPro is great and super feature rich but ListBoxes are really much simpler to 
configure and use. After the switch I discovered using Named Selections for the 
source of a listbox. Don’t remember if AreaList Pro had this functionality, 
don’t think so, but having multiple list boxes on the same form displaying 
different selections from the same table without using arrays makes, for me, 
the switch well worth the effort.

John


> On Sep 25, 2017, at 3:50 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Douglas
> 
> I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich 
> framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time 
> context it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!
> 
> At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i can 
> say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas on 
> all my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the 
> framework in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto 
> field based listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to listbox 
> if you you want to farm the job out). 
> 
> 
> 
> Nigel Greenlee
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
>> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>> Sannyasin:
>> 
>> "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
>> 
>> I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does what
>> I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
>> grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
>> from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
>> 
>> In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
>> allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky UI
>> things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
>> work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
>> so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
>> 
>> BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
>> hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that would
>> be a piece of cake.
>> 
>> 
>> --
>> Douglas von Roeder
>> 949-336-2902
>> 
>> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
>> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>> 
>>> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
>>> 
>>> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
>>> 
>>> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
>>> 
>>> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
>>> decades…
>>> **
>>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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>>> 
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Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Nigel:

It sounds like list boxes suit your needs. Good to hear that.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Mon, Sep 25, 2017 at 6:50 AM, Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Douglas
>
> I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich
> framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time
> context it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!
>
>  At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i
> can say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas
> on all my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the
> framework in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto
> field based listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to
> listbox if you you want to farm the job out).
>
>
>
> Nigel Greenlee
>
>
>
>
> > On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> > Sannyasin:
> >
> > "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> > close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in
> Listboxes
> > for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing
> for
> > this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
> >
> > I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does
> what
> > I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
> > grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
> > from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
> >
> > In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
> > allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky
> UI
> > things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
> > work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
> > so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
> >
> > BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
> > hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that
> would
> > be a piece of cake.
> >
> >
> > --
> > Douglas von Roeder
> > 949-336-2902
> >
> > On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
> > 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> >
> >> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
> >>
> >> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> >> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in
> Listboxes
> >> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing
> for
> >> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
> >>
> >>
> >> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> >>
> >> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
> >>
> >> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a
> couple of
> >> decades…
> >> **
> >> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
> >> FAQ:  http://lists.4d.com/faqnug.html
> >> Archive:  http://lists.4d.com/archives.html
> >> Options: http://lists.4d.com/mailman/options/4d_tech
> >> Unsub:  mailto:4d_tech-unsubscr...@lists.4d.com
> >> **
> >>
> > **
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Nigel Greenlee via 4D_Tech]

Douglas

I undertook a project a long long long time back to convert a pretty rich 
framework(for its time) from Area List to Listbox..to put that in time context 
it was when you could not buy any licences for Area List!

 At the time LB did not have anything like the abilities it had now but i can 
say i have never missed Area List and implement very easy listbox areas on all 
my forms even on new databases where i have only put bits of the framework 
in-including nice stuff like putting formula based columns onto field based 
listboxes. .(I would happily undertake to move anyone to listbox if you you 
want to farm the job out). 



Nigel Greenlee




> On 24 Sep 2017, at 20:20, Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Sannyasin:
> 
> "I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!"
> 
> I haven't delved into LB's at much depth. Part of it is that ALP does what
> I need it to do and, to their credit, LB's are an easy transition from
> grouped scrollable areas. Having done multiple"no new features" upgrades
> from legacy versions of 4D this year, I appreciate that.
> 
> In contrast, I worked on a project where LB's were required (ALP was not
> allowed) and it was absolutely clear that "the little glitches and funky UI
> things make a difference" to the point of having to figure out a *lot* of
> work arounds. I offered to buy ALP for the client but they were adamant
> so the UI was limited but chacun a son gout.
> 
> BTW, converting the array to a text array and keeping the numeric array
> hidden might be your best bet. If LB's offer calculated columns, that would
> be a piece of cake.
> 
> 
> --
> Douglas von Roeder
> 949-336-2902
> 
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 8:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
>> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
>> 
>> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s
>> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes
>> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for
>> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
>> 
>> 
>> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
>> 
>> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
>> 
>> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
>> decades…
>> **
>> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Miyako,
That's a really good point.

So the better way would be to get the local thousands separator and filter
that. I suppose the best approach would be to convert each string value to
a real and then string in back in with no formatting. But that gets
complicated when the string is from a listbox cell and the user is making a
change to a formatted number.

Regarding v15 choking on commas - is that specifically a comma or would it
be the case for any thousands separator in an execute statement?

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> even if it doesn't seem applicable to your immediate deployment target,
> it is good practice as a programmer
> to not assume that a thousand (decimal) separator would always be a comma
> (period).
>
> 2017/09/25 7:43、Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com d_t...@lists.4d.com>> のメール：
> $exe_string:=Replace string($exe_string;",";"")
>
>
>
> **
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-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

I guess string like "123,456" evaluates as an undefined, variable name in v15 
or later.

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Get-pointer.300-2018637.en.html
2017/09/25 7:43、Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
(in v15 they started choking execution)



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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

even if it doesn't seem applicable to your immediate deployment target,
it is good practice as a programmer
to not assume that a thousand (decimal) separator would always be a comma 
(period).

2017/09/25 7:43、Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com> のメール：
$exe_string:=Replace string($exe_string;",";"")



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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Sannyasin,
It works with any text. Outside of listboxes I let users write formulas for
things like pricing and commissions. It's nice to let them do this in terms
of things they understand so a formula can look like:

P= (Cost * x) + Z
P= (MSRP * (1 - x)) + Z


There are two ways you can evaluate them.
Native 4D code:
You need to have a a process var defined for the result, I use:
'pfcr_price'. Here's a simplified version of a method used to calculate
selling prices. $1 would be a formula like the ones above. x and Z are most
likely static and the cost and msrp vary depending on the item.

$formula:=$1

$x:=$2
$z:=$3
$cost:=$4
$MSRP:=$5

$exe_string:=Price_formula_insert_values ($formula;$x;$z;$MSRP;$cost)
$exe_string:=Replace string($exe_string;",";"")
$exe_string:=Replace string($exe_string;"P=";"pfcr_price:=")

EXECUTE FORMULA($exe_string)

$0:= pfcr_price


Price_formula_insert_values handles inserting the actual values for the 4
variables, x, z, cost and msrp. Then I remove any commas (in v15 they
started choking execution) and swap "P=" for the name of my variable. Now
just execute the line and return the result.

NTK from Rob Laveaux
Since acquiring NTK I've started using Rob's execute function. Preparation
is the same but it works in a single call. Plus he let's you tokenize the
formula which is good if you will be applying it to large data sets.
Another cool tidbit in NTK.

You have to be careful here about how sophisticated you want to get. You
could let users reference any 4D math functions, for example. But you will
need to do the error checking for things like unclosed parens and such. I
keep things pretty simple for the most part. And like I say to provide
on-the-fly ability to do something like add a string of numbers or enter an
amount with a 3.25% discount in a single line is pretty cool.

If you have really sophisticated users you can provide an formula window on
a form, or a listbox line, and give them access to any variables you have
defined.

Speed becomes an issue if you start looking at thousands of operations but
for the flexibility the trade off can be worth it. Or you can look into NTK
as I mentioned.

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 12:04 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Very cool idea! Does this formula evaluation only work with arrays? Or
> text fields too?
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Thanks. This does work reasonably well for this circumstance. As I’m using 
field based listboxes, I used the following to make the spacer column:

LISTBOX INSERT COLUMN FORMULA(*;"CCTransactionsLB";3;"SpacerCol";" ";Is 
text;"";$HeaderVar)
LISTBOX SET COLUMN WIDTH(*;"SpacerCol";10)
OBJECT SET ENTERABLE(*;"SpacerCol";False)  //make column unenterable



Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Sep 23, 2017, 5:19 PM -1000, wrote:

This may not work for your situation, but I have used a dummy column to provide 
visual spacing between columns. Not a great solution but it has worked well 
enough for me in the past.
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Very cool idea! Does this formula evaluation only work with arrays? Or text 
fields too?

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Sep 24, 2017, 3:20 AM -1000, wrote:

Next approach is to read the real arrays into text arrays. In this case
since they are just display it doesn't really matter. In lots of cases it's
a benefit using text arrays for user input as it lets you accept formulas
for input and then evaluate them. (eg. "1+34+2.2") Useful for forms where
users are updating real world data. For me that's things like inventory
worksheets.
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Kirk:

Interesting idea - convert to text so that users can enter formulas. Thanks
for posting that.

--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Sun, Sep 24, 2017 at 6:20 AM, Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Sannyasin,
> Sorry about that - could have sworn I'd used that before.
>
> Next approach is to read the real arrays into text arrays. In this case
> since they are just display it doesn't really matter. In lots of cases it's
> a benefit using text arrays for user input as it lets you accept formulas
> for input and then evaluate them. (eg. "1+34+2.2") Useful for forms where
> users are updating real world data. For me that's things like inventory
> worksheets.
>
> On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as
> > that would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?
> >
> >
> --
> Kirk Brooks
> San Francisco, CA
> ===
>
> *The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
> nothing.*
>
> *- Edmund Burke*
> **
> 4D Internet Users Group (4D iNUG)
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Sannyasin,
Sorry about that - could have sworn I'd used that before.

Next approach is to read the real arrays into text arrays. In this case
since they are just display it doesn't really matter. In lots of cases it's
a benefit using text arrays for user input as it lets you accept formulas
for input and then evaluate them. (eg. "1+34+2.2") Useful for forms where
users are updating real world data. For me that's things like inventory
worksheets.

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:40 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as
> that would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?
>
>
-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Jeremy Roussak via 4D_Tech]

I reformat the text on the fly, adding spaces to the start. Not tidy, but it 
does work.

Jeremy


Jeremy Roussak
j...@mac.com



> On 24 Sep 2017, at 03:40, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as that 
> would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?
> 
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
**
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[John Baughman via 4D_Tech]

This may not work for your situation, but I have used a dummy column to provide 
visual spacing between columns. Not a great solution but it has worked well 
enough for me in the past.

John


> On Sep 23, 2017, at 5:10 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)
> 
> I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s 
> close, but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes 
> for heavy data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for 
> this, so little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!
> 
> 
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> 
> On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:
> 
> Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
> decades…
> **
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John Baughman
Kailua, Hawaii
(808) 262-0328
john...@hawaii.rr.com





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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Me too! (well not a couple of decades—at least 1 decade)

I’m looking again seriously at Listboxes as a replacement for ALP. It’s close, 
but there’s a couple things that don’t quite work well in Listboxes for heavy 
data editing. I do both the programming and the data editing for this, so 
little glitches and funky UI things make a difference!


Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Sep 23, 2017, 5:04 PM -1000, wrote:

Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
decades…
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Sorry, that’s about it for me. I’ve been using AreaList Pro for a couple of
decades…


On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 7:40 PM Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as
> that would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?
>
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
>
> On Sep 23, 2017, 12:03 PM -1000, wrote:
>
> Have you tried a format that has a trailing space?
> **
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-- 
--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Excellent idea, unfortunately trailing spaces are ignored. Too bad, as that 
would have been perfect for this circumstance. Any other ideas?

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami

On Sep 23, 2017, 12:03 PM -1000, wrote:

Have you tried a format that has a trailing space?
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Douglas von Roeder via 4D_Tech]

Have you tried a format that has a trailing space?

Something along these lines:

"$###,###,##0.00 ;($###,###,##0.00 ) ; "




--
Douglas von Roeder
949-336-2902

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Aloha!
>
> I have a listbox column for dollar amounts (aligned right) followed by a
> Description column with text aligned left. Unfortunately, that means the
> text of those two columns are butting up against each other. Is there a way
> to add a bit more space between columns?
>
> See screen shot:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0kjr3bfdm8t6t1/Credit_Card_
> Transactions.jpg?dl=0
>
> macOS does this in the Finder under the same circumstances:
> https://www.dropbox.com/s/skpd8qi1ro9lylw/Dropbox.jpg?dl=0
>
> Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
> **
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Re: Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Kirk Brooks via 4D_Tech]

Aloha,
Probably the simplest solution is to tweak the format in the number column
and add a couple of spaces at the right.

eg. "$###,##0.00  ;($###,##0.00)  ; -  "

Add more spaces if you like.

On Sat, Sep 23, 2017 at 2:21 PM, Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Aloha!
>
> I have a listbox column for dollar amounts (aligned right) followed by a
> Description column with text aligned left. Unfortunately, that means the
> text of those two columns are butting up against each other. Is there a way
> to add a bit more space between columns?
>

-- 
Kirk Brooks
San Francisco, CA
===

*The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do
nothing.*

*- Edmund Burke*
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Listbox Spacing Between Columns

[Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami via 4D_Tech]

Aloha!

I have a listbox column for dollar amounts (aligned right) followed by a 
Description column with text aligned left. Unfortunately, that means the text 
of those two columns are butting up against each other. Is there a way to add a 
bit more space between columns?

See screen shot:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w0kjr3bfdm8t6t1/Credit_Card_Transactions.jpg?dl=0

macOS does this in the Finder under the same circumstances:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/skpd8qi1ro9lylw/Dropbox.jpg?dl=0

Sannyasin Siddhanathaswami
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