Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Donald Koffman via 4D_Tech]

Thanks, Miyako. Yes, I know the structure file being read only is expected, 
just didn’t expect the warning, since it doesn’t occur when installing form a 
zipped file. 

> On Jul 29, 2018, at 8:36 PM, Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> is it not normal and expected that the structure file is read-only,
> if inside the application folder?
> 
> you can suppress the warning
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/DatabaseData-storage-page.300-3743476.en.html
> 
> and you can configure the application to use a "default data" read-only 
> placeholder for startup
> and use a read-write data file outside the package (e.g. application support)
> 
> http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/Data-file-management-in-final-applications.300-3743577.en.html
> 
> basically, on Mac, you have 2 choices: install in /Applications as read-only 
> or install outside /Applications.
> 
> of course,
> read-only does not mean you can never alter the contents of the app.
> otherwise, you won't be able to edit backup.xml which is always inside the 
> application (for now).
> 
> but the app must launch read-only on its first run.
> 
> 2018/07/30 2:54、donkoff via 4D_Tech 
> <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:
> 
> When I use a zip file to transfer the app, it opens with normally, no "your
> structure file is in read only mode" confirm dialog.  I can use a zip
> approach, but I a concerned that Apple will block this approach in the
> future. The pckg approach should be better, but it seems not to work.
> 
> 
> 
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DMK Concepts Inc.
Tel:  781-729-8384
Cell: 617-797-7514

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Keisuke Miyako via 4D_Tech]

is it not normal and expected that the structure file is read-only,
if inside the application folder?

you can suppress the warning

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/DatabaseData-storage-page.300-3743476.en.html

and you can configure the application to use a "default data" read-only 
placeholder for startup
and use a read-write data file outside the package (e.g. application support)

http://doc.4d.com/4Dv17/4D/17/Data-file-management-in-final-applications.300-3743577.en.html

basically, on Mac, you have 2 choices: install in /Applications as read-only or 
install outside /Applications.

of course,
read-only does not mean you can never alter the contents of the app.
otherwise, you won't be able to edit backup.xml which is always inside the 
application (for now).

but the app must launch read-only on its first run.

2018/07/30 2:54、donkoff via 4D_Tech 
<4d_tech@lists.4d.com>のメール:

When I use a zip file to transfer the app, it opens with normally, no "your
structure file is in read only mode" confirm dialog.  I can use a zip
approach, but I a concerned that Apple will block this approach in the
future. The pckg approach should be better, but it seems not to work.



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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[donkoff via 4D_Tech]

As I said in my post, I used a verified signed package to install the app.
This automatically copies it to the applications folder. The package was
created using a signed Single user Build (never opened) moved to the
Applications before creating the package. The package was created using
terminal and pkgbuild -- component etc.

When I use a zip file to transfer the app, it opens with normally, no "your
structure file is in read only mode" confirm dialog.  I can use a zip
approach, but I a concerned that Apple will block this approach in the
future. The pckg approach should be better, but it seems not to work.




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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Pat Bensky via 4D_Tech]

You're not trying to run it from within the disk image are you? IE instead
of copying the app from a disk image into the Applications folder you
simply open the disk image and run the app from there.

On Sun, 29 Jul 2018 at 12:59, Donald Koffman via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> No the data file is not open. The message refers to the structure file, not
> the data file. Does this indicate that it has been moved to a read only
> location?
>
> On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 11:19 PM Lloyd SIgler via 4D_Tech <
> 4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
>
> > Do you have the data files open on another Machine?
> >
> > I will get that message if I am trying to open while the data files are
> > already open on another machine.
> >
> > Lloyd
> >
> >
> > > On Jul 28, 2018, at 7:41 PM, donkoff via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com
> >
> > wrote:
> > >
> > > HI All,
> > > After successfully building and packaging a signed app
> (verified),opening
> > > the package installed in in High Sierra.
> > >
> > > When I launch it, a confirm Dialog asking "Are you sure you want to
> open
> > the
> > > structure file in red only mode."
> > > Yes, opens it and it seems fine.
> > >
> > > The structure file is compiled so read only mode seems appropriate. Why
> > the
> > > Confirm?
> > > Thanks,
> > > Don
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > --
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Donald Koffman via 4D_Tech]

No the data file is not open. The message refers to the structure file, not
the data file. Does this indicate that it has been moved to a read only
location?

On Sat, Jul 28, 2018 at 11:19 PM Lloyd SIgler via 4D_Tech <
4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:

> Do you have the data files open on another Machine?
>
> I will get that message if I am trying to open while the data files are
> already open on another machine.
>
> Lloyd
>
>
> > On Jul 28, 2018, at 7:41 PM, donkoff via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com>
> wrote:
> >
> > HI All,
> > After successfully building and packaging a signed app (verified),opening
> > the package installed in in High Sierra.
> >
> > When I launch it, a confirm Dialog asking "Are you sure you want to open
> the
> > structure file in red only mode."
> > Yes, opens it and it seems fine.
> >
> > The structure file is compiled so read only mode seems appropriate. Why
> the
> > Confirm?
> > Thanks,
> > Don
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > Sent from: http://4d.1045681.n5.nabble.com/4D-Tech-f1376241.html
> > **
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Lloyd SIgler via 4D_Tech]

Do you have the data files open on another Machine?

I will get that message if I am trying to open while the data files are already 
open on another machine.

Lloyd


> On Jul 28, 2018, at 7:41 PM, donkoff via 4D_Tech <4d_tech@lists.4d.com> wrote:
> 
> HI All, 
> After successfully building and packaging a signed app (verified),opening
> the package installed in in High Sierra. 
> 
> When I launch it, a confirm Dialog asking "Are you sure you want to open the
> structure file in red only mode."
> Yes, opens it and it seems fine. 
> 
> The structure file is compiled so read only mode seems appropriate. Why the
> Confirm?
> Thanks,
> Don
> 
> 
> 
> --
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[donkoff via 4D_Tech]

HI All, 
After successfully building and packaging a signed app (verified),opening
the package installed in in High Sierra. 

When I launch it, a confirm Dialog asking "Are you sure you want to open the
structure file in red only mode."
Yes, opens it and it seems fine. 

The structure file is compiled so read only mode seems appropriate. Why the
Confirm?
Thanks,
Don



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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[John DeSoi]

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 4:08 PM, James Crate  wrote:
> 
> However, you can’t call OPEN DATA FILE from the On Startup database method, 
> or any method called by it. Is there a recommended way to run code after the 
> On Startup method has finished? POST KEY to a special menu item in a special 
> menu is kind of a kluge. If you call OPEN DATA FILE from a new process, does 
> that process need to wait for On Startup to finish before calling OPEN DATA 
> FILE? If so, will it be accurate enough to check process status of the main 
> process? Or would we still have to start up whatever we are using for 
> interprocess communication so that On Startup can tell the other process that 
> it is finishing?

I agree it would be better if OPEN DATA FILE and CREATE DATA FILE would just 
abort startup and shutdown if called during startup. But it is not too much 
trouble to launch a separate process and wait for the startup to complete. Just 
have the process check process 1 for status = Waiting for user event.

John DeSoi, Ph.D.

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Keisuke Miyako]

though the original problem has been solved already (just move the app to 
/Applications)
I would just like to share some tips on how to package your app for 
distribution.

1. to code sign or not is a mostly financial question; there is nothing 
technically difficult about it, you just need to keep paying the annual fee to 
Apple.

you can manage your certificates needed to code sign directly from Xcode.
just make sure you add both certificates, "Application" and "Installer".
so you just click 2 buttons.

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/documentation/IDEs/Conceptual/AppDistributionGuide/MaintainingCertificates/MaintainingCertificates.html

2. there are basically 3 modes of deployment; zip, dmg or pkg

in all 3 cases it is preferred that the app itself is signed
it is preferred that the dmg and pkg are themselves signed
zip and dmg requires the app to be moved to /Applications by the user (pkg does 
that automatically)

Note: even if you do sign your app and zip or pkg, GateKeeper may still prevent 
it from being launched initially,
and a blocked application may still be launched from System Preferences. (and 
GateKeeper won't bother the user again)

a. app

first you want to sign your app.

you can use the build-in feature of 4D, or run the procedure from Terminal.

> codesign -s "Developer ID Application: keisuke miyako (Y69CWUC25B)" sample.app


you can omit the code in parenthesis if there is no ambiguity.

signing requires access to a timer server, so your network must be available.

to check the signature, do

> spctl --assess --type exec -vv sample.app


or

> codesign --verify --deep --strict --verbose=2 sample.app


b. dmg

you can use the Disk Utility app, or a simple terminal command to create a dmg 
of your application.

> hdiutil create -srcfolder sample.app sample.dmg


for fancier options, check out: https://github.com/andreyvit/create-dmg 
https://pypi.python.org/pypi/dmgbuild

to sign a dmg, follow the example (macOS 10.11.5 or later)

> codesign -s "Developer ID Application: keisuke miyako (Y69CWUC25B)" sample.dmg


you can check the validity of the signature itself

> codesign --verify --deep --strict --verbose=2 sample.dmg


but to assess the dmg signature you need to use Sierra

> spctl --assess --type open --context context:primary-signature -vv sample.dmg


c. zip

instead of a dmg, you could simply zip the app and share it.
there is no need to sign the zip.

d. pkg

as explained by Keith, you can also create a standard package installer

> productbuild --component sample.app --sign "Developer ID Installer: keisuke 
> miyako (Y69CWUC25B)" sample.pkg

it is really important that your source file (the app) is already installed in 
/Applications.
otherwise, the package will be created, but running it will create a blank app.

you can also create a pkg with pkgbuild

> pkgbuild --component sample.app --sign "Developer ID Installer: keisuke 
> miyako (Y69CWUC25B)" sample.pkg

but again, the installer won't install anything if the source was not in 
/Applications already, even if you specify the -install-location option.

to check the signature

> spctl --assess --type install -vv sample.pkg


or

> pkgutil --check-signature sample.pkg


rather than using a 4D app which is large,
I suggest you experiment with a small preinstalled app,
upload the zip, pkg or dmg to a convenient server,
download it and see what happens.

miyako


宮古 啓介
セールス・エンジニア

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〒150-0043
東京都渋谷区道玄坂1-10-2 渋谷THビル6F
Tel: 03-6427-8441
Fax: 03-6427-8449

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www.4D.com/JP

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[bobS]

I prefer to use DropDMG from c-command.

http://c-command.com/dropdmg/

$24 and makes a nicer package for a client to download.



-
--

Bob Shaffer
Western (The forgotten end of) Maryland

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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

Quote Jim:
>> 4D needs to alter the startup mechanism to allow developers to write code 
>> that 
>> runs before the datafile is opened. This would allow a developer to much 
>> more 
>> easily do “the right thing”, which is to put the database (you know, with 
>> data the 
>> user can change) in the Documents or Application Support directories. 
>> Alternatively, if the data is indeed fully static, then the embedded 
>> datafile could 
>> be opened in read-only mode.

Quote Bill: 
> Agreed. This has been long-standing issue, even before the latest changes in 
> OS strategies.

Actually, in v15.0 4D introduced the concept of the Default Data File. 

This feature was implemented in response to the feature request for 
"New Database Event--On Before Opening Database":
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/6265711/1/6265712#6265712 <- request
http://forums.4d.fr/Post/EN/6265711/1/6265712#16558316 <- implementation

more info: 
http://livedoc.4d.com/4Dv15/4D/15/Data-file-management-in-final-applications.300-2964259.en.html
 


Opening the data file  

When a user launches a merged application or an update (single-user or 
client-server applications), 4D tries to select a valid data file. Several 
locations are examined by the application successively.
The opening sequence for launching a merged application is:
1) 4D tries to open the Last data file opened, as described below (not 
applicable during initial launch).
2) If not found, 4D tries to open the data file in a default data folder next 
to the .4DC file in read-only mode (new in 4D v15, described below).
3) If not found, 4D tries to open the standard default data file (same name and 
same location as the .4DC file).
4) If not found, 4D displays a standard "Open data file" dialog box.


This allows you to include a read-only data file and write code to present your 
own dialog using your own logic to ask the end user to select or create a data 
file at the appropriate location, prior to / instead of  4D asking the end user 
to open/select a data file.

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Bill Weale]

Agreed. This has been long-standing issue, even before the latest changes in OS 
strategies.

—Bill


William W. Weale

Business Owners Support, LLC.

Operations Analysis
MIS Advising
Decision Support Systems

> On Nov 15, 2016, at 10:20 AM, James Crate  wrote:
> 
> Also, 4D needs to alter the startup mechanism to allow developers to write 
> code that runs before the datafile is opened. This would allow a developer to 
> much more easily do “the right thing”, which is to put the database (you 
> know, with data the user can change) in the Documents or Application Support 
> directories. Alternatively, if the data is indeed fully static, then the 
> embedded datafile could be opened in read-only mode.
> 
> 
> Jim Crate

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[James Crate]

On Nov 14, 2016, at 2:28 PM, Chip Scheide <4d_o...@pghrepository.org> wrote:
> 
> ANd is this the next step in forcing all applications t use the "app 
> store" and the forced end of most "free form" programming?  (4D 
> databases would fall into this category)

No, it is not. This measure is in response to published exploits:

https://papers.put.as/papers/macosx/2015/vb201503-dylib-hijacking.pdf

Note that the Gatekeeper Path Randomization which is being talked about here is 
also attempting to prevent “repackaging” exploits.

http://lapcatsoftware.com/articles/zero-day.html


The concept of having the default database inside the application package 
really needs to be abandoned. Also, 4D needs to alter the startup mechanism to 
allow developers to write code that runs before the datafile is opened. This 
would allow a developer to much more easily do “the right thing”, which is to 
put the database (you know, with data the user can change) in the Documents or 
Application Support directories. Alternatively, if the data is indeed fully 
static, then the embedded datafile could be opened in read-only mode.


Jim Crate

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Robert Livingston]

Thanks a lot, Tim.

This worked for me.

My app is unsigned. (I do not have an Apple Developer ID)




My "App" when it appeared after being "unzipped" happens to sit in a folder 
with some other files. The zipped file is a folder with the App and a couple 
other files. That just happens to be how I distributed it. Call that folder A

First I tried putting the zipped file in the Application folder and unzipping 
it there and trying to run the App from the folder (A) that it is distributed 
in. That did not work. At this point that folder (A) is a subfolder of the 
Applications folder. And the App is sitting in this subfolder of the 
Applications folder. The magic does not extend into a subfolder.

Then I took the unzipped App itself and took it from its created subfolder(A) 
and put it directly in the Applications folder. Then it DID work. I am very 
grateful to having been pointed to this solution.

Now, for my users, I have to include an additional layer of explanation but at 
least it is doable and I do not have to tell them to do something obscure with 
Terminal or whatever.



Once it has been run once, I can take that App and put it back in the folder A 
and it will continue to work. In fact, I can put it anywhere and it will run. 
Just like any application you might have. Putting apps in the Application 
folder has always been an arbitrary sensible thing to do, but not required. 
Just like putting pictures in the Pictures folder.

This is the first time to my knowledge that the Application folder has some 
special magic to it.

The App will not initially run from the Downloads folder. As best I can tell, 
it will not run from ANY folder other than the Application folder for that 
initial launch. And it cannot be in a subfolder of the Applications folder. It 
has to first be run from the Applications folder itself. 

After that, the App can be put anywhere as best I can tell. . 

I have other apps that I distribute via the Internet using another programming 
environment. (Xojo). Those apps do not have this same problem. The recipient 
can run them from anywhere. So 4D has some other ingredient that allows it to 
be locked up.



This all applies currently to 4D apps downloaded from the Internet. I could 
send someone the zipped 4D file in an email message and currently the recipient 
would not run into any trouble running it from where ever they want.






> On Nov 14, 2016, at 10:04 AM, Timothy Penner  wrote:
> 
> Solution is to move it to the /Applications/ directory after unzipping it.

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Peter Mew]

Have I read this correctly?
If I write a small standalone app, for a friend, zip it and send it to him,
At some time in the future, there will be an Mac OS version which will say
the equivalent of "I'm sorry Dave, I cant let you do that".
Has the world of Apple gone mad?
-pm

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 8:10 PM, Timothy Penner  wrote:

> > actually - what I was pointing out is that Apple is doing all of this
> security on applications which are (supposedly) 'safe', as in they have
> been signed, presumably by Apple itself.
> > What are they doing to apps that are not signed?
>
> ^ My thoughts exactly... If the signed code (safer of the two) is being
> quarantined to a read only environment, then just imagine the restrictions
> Apple will put on unsigned code.
>
> > ANd is this the next step in forcing all applications t use the "app
> store" and the forced end of most "free form" programming?  (4D databases
> would fall into this category)
>
> ^ We will just have to wait and see what Apple changes next
>
> Kind Regards,
>
> Tim PENNER
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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

> actually - what I was pointing out is that Apple is doing all of this 
> security on applications which are (supposedly) 'safe', as in they have been 
> signed, presumably by Apple itself.
> What are they doing to apps that are not signed?

^ My thoughts exactly... If the signed code (safer of the two) is being 
quarantined to a read only environment, then just imagine the restrictions 
Apple will put on unsigned code.

> ANd is this the next step in forcing all applications t use the "app store" 
> and the forced end of most "free form" programming?  (4D databases would fall 
> into this category)

^ We will just have to wait and see what Apple changes next

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

Hi Chip,

> also notice this si specifically referencing "Signed Applications"

Yes this is information came from Apple's changes to Gatekeeper, and is 
referenced in the documentation for code signing under the "Shipping your 
signed code" section.

Although, if you think it doesn't/shouldn't apply to non-signed app, well, I 
don't think that Apple's gatekeeper would provide a less-secure environment for 
non-signed apps, so whether or not your app is signed, it probably should not 
be running from the Downloads directory.

-Tim

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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Chip Scheide]

also notice this si specifically referencing "Signed Applications"

On Mon, 14 Nov 2016 19:36:28 +0100, Timothy Penner wrote:
> Sorry Chip, I don’t know, I was paraphrasing the docs:
> 
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/technotes/tn2206/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40007919-CH1-TNTAG17
> 
> "This also applies to apps installed via ZIP or other archive formats 
> or apps downloaded to the Downloads directory: ask the user to drag 
> the app to /Applications and launch it from there."
> 
> Full quote:
> --
> Shipping your Signed Code
> The preferred way to ship a signed app is via the Mac App Store. The 
> Mac App Store provides a secure channel for app delivery and 
> installation that requires minimal action on the part of the user.
> 
> For distribution outside of the Mac App Store, the preferred options 
> are to use a signed disk image (DMG) or signed installer package. 
> Signing these allows validation of the contents and their source. ZIP 
> archives may also be used, but this is discouraged.
> 
> If using a disk image to ship an app, users should drag the app from 
> the image to its desired installation location (usually 
> /Applications) before launching it. This also applies to apps 
> installed via ZIP or other archive formats or apps downloaded to the 
> Downloads directory: ask the user to drag the app to /Applications 
> and launch it from there.
> 
> This practice avoids an attack where a validly signed app launched 
> from a disk image, ZIP archive, or ISO (CD/DVD) image can load 
> malicious code or content from untrusted locations on the same image 
> or archive. Starting with macOS Sierra, running a newly-downloaded 
> app from a disk image, archive, or the Downloads directory will cause 
> Gatekeeper to isolate that app at a unspecified read-only location in 
> the filesystem. This will prevent the app from accessing code or 
> content using relative paths.
> 
> Do not ship apps using ISO images. There is no provision for signing these.
> 
> Important: Starting with macOS Sierra, only XIP archives signed by 
> Apple will be expanded. Developers who have been using XIP archives 
> will need to move to using signed installer packages or disk images.
> --
> 
> ^Notice above it specifically mentions moving the application to the 
> /Applications directory
> 
> -Tim
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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

I should have also highlighted this quote from:

"Starting with macOS Sierra, running a newly-downloaded app from a disk image, 
archive, or the Downloads directory will cause Gatekeeper to isolate that app 
at a unspecified read-only location in the filesystem. This will prevent the 
app from accessing code or content using relative paths."

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/technotes/tn2206/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40007919-CH1-TNTAG17

-Tim
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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

Sorry Chip, I don’t know, I was paraphrasing the docs:
https://developer.apple.com/library/content/technotes/tn2206/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40007919-CH1-TNTAG17

"This also applies to apps installed via ZIP or other archive formats or apps 
downloaded to the Downloads directory: ask the user to drag the app to 
/Applications and launch it from there."

Full quote:
--
Shipping your Signed Code
The preferred way to ship a signed app is via the Mac App Store. The Mac App 
Store provides a secure channel for app delivery and installation that requires 
minimal action on the part of the user.

For distribution outside of the Mac App Store, the preferred options are to use 
a signed disk image (DMG) or signed installer package. Signing these allows 
validation of the contents and their source. ZIP archives may also be used, but 
this is discouraged.

If using a disk image to ship an app, users should drag the app from the image 
to its desired installation location (usually /Applications) before launching 
it. This also applies to apps installed via ZIP or other archive formats or 
apps downloaded to the Downloads directory: ask the user to drag the app to 
/Applications and launch it from there.

This practice avoids an attack where a validly signed app launched from a disk 
image, ZIP archive, or ISO (CD/DVD) image can load malicious code or content 
from untrusted locations on the same image or archive. Starting with macOS 
Sierra, running a newly-downloaded app from a disk image, archive, or the 
Downloads directory will cause Gatekeeper to isolate that app at a unspecified 
read-only location in the filesystem. This will prevent the app from accessing 
code or content using relative paths.

Do not ship apps using ISO images. There is no provision for signing these.

Important: Starting with macOS Sierra, only XIP archives signed by Apple will 
be expanded. Developers who have been using XIP archives will need to move to 
using signed installer packages or disk images.
--

^Notice above it specifically mentions moving the application to the 
/Applications directory

-Tim
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RE: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Timothy Penner]

Starting with 10.12.x Sierra, if you download an app.zip and unzip it then run 
it from the Downloads directory, Apple will quarantine the app into a Read-Only 
environment. Solution is to move it to the /Applications/ directory after 
unzipping it.

Kind Regards,

Tim PENNER
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Robert Livingston]

I did look at this because I thought that the problem might be here but not. In 
this regard (Sharing & Permissions) the "quarantined" and the "non-quarantined" 
versions of the zip file are the same. 

There is another section in the Get Info panel -- "More Info" where there is a 
bit of "metadata" called Where from: which tells you from where the 
"quarantined" version was downloaded.

Non-quarantined version does not have this (Obviously because it was not 
downloaded from anywhere)



> On Nov 14, 2016, at 8:26 AM, Peter Bozek  wrote:
> 
> Can you check the access rights you have? Click on application and select
> menu File -> Get Info (or command - I.) At the bottom you will find a
> Permissions tab with table showing who has the rights to read and write
> rights. From your description, it seems you have only read but not write
> rights.

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Peter Bozek]

On Mon, Nov 14, 2016 at 4:26 PM, Robert Livingston 
wrote:

> So somehow even after you have said that you want to open the file, you
> cannot. In some fashion 4D sees it locked and no matter how you answer the
> dialogs you cannot get the application to run.
>

Can you check the access rights you have? Click on application and select
menu File -> Get Info (or command - I.) At the bottom you will find a
Permissions tab with table showing who has the rights to read and write
rights. From your description, it seems you have only read but not write
rights.

It would be strange, though, as unarchiving ZIP should reset file
permissions to original state (which was read-write.) Maybe macOS assigns
ownership  of applications from downloaded zip archives to guest, and not
to you. Have not seen that, but I am still running 10.10.

-- 

Peter Bozek
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Keith Culotta]

If you don't mind an installer package rather than a Zip, this got around that 
problem for me.  It requires your Apple developer number (ABC...).  I run the 
app at least once from the Applications folder, and make no resource folder, 
etc... changes after that.  Then run this from the terminal.  

productbuild --component /Applications/MyApp.app /Applications MyApp.pkg --sign 
"Developer ID Installer: A Name (ABCDEFGHIJ)"

Some translation:
productbuild --component /WhereTheAppIsNow /InstallingPutsItHere 
installer.pkg.is .created.here --sign "Developer ID 
Installer: KeychainName (ABCDEFGHIJ)"

See man productbuild in the Terminal.

Keith - CDI

> On Nov 14, 2016, at 9:45 AM, Robert Livingston  wrote:
> 
> Thanks for your input.
> 
> But I have tried using a DMG of the application and the same problem occurs.
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Nov 14, 2016, at 7:38 AM, spiffyguy  wrote:
>> 
>> Apple may change the permission from zip files as you experienced.  Perhaps
>> for mac it would be better to make a DMG of your app that people can
>> download from Amazon AWS.
>> 
>> They would get the "Are you sure you want to open..." alert when they opened
>> the DMG but your permissions would be fine inside the DMG.  Just have
>> instructions for them to copy it to the Applications folder or wherever you
>> would like them to run it.
> 
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Robert Livingston]

Thanks for your input.

But I have tried using a DMG of the application and the same problem occurs.




> On Nov 14, 2016, at 7:38 AM, spiffyguy  wrote:
> 
> Apple may change the permission from zip files as you experienced.  Perhaps
> for mac it would be better to make a DMG of your app that people can
> download from Amazon AWS.
> 
> They would get the "Are you sure you want to open..." alert when they opened
> the DMG but your permissions would be fine inside the DMG.  Just have
> instructions for them to copy it to the Applications folder or wherever you
> would like them to run it.

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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Chuck Miller]

There is no resource fork any longer. Long gone the way of Dodo bird

Regards

Chuck

 Chuck Miller Voice: (617) 739-0306
 Informed Solutions, Inc. Fax: (617) 232-1064   
mailto:cjmillerinformed-solutions.com 
 Brookline, MA 02446 USA Registered 4D Developer
   Providers of 4D and Sybase connectivity
  http://www.informed-solutions.com  



> On Nov 14, 2016, at 2:29 AM, Robert Livingston  wrote:
> 
> I have a compiled 4D app
> 
> 1. I zip compress it.
> 
> 2. I uncompress it. It works fine.
> 
> 3. I send the compressed file to an on-line storage (AWS - Amazon Web 
> services)
> 
> 4. I bring back the compressed file.
> 
> 5. I uncompress it. It will not work.
> 
>a. I get a message: Are you sure you want to open the structure file in 
> read only mode?
> 
>b. If you say OK a second message will appear: "toy cannot open this 
> database because the data file (or one of its segments) is locked. 
> 
>c. Then you get an error message.
> 
> 
> 
> It "knows" that the file was downloaded. You get the usual thing about "are 
> you sure you want to open his file downloaded from the Internet". If you say 
> yes that you are sure, you will move forward and run into this problem.
> 
> 
> What is this all about? How do you get around it? If I back-up an app to AWS 
> how can I get it back in a working form?
> 
> 
> 
> The compressed file that you kept on your computer and the compressed file 
> that you send to AWS seem to be the same. But the one you bring back must 
> have some kind of metadata attached to it that cause this problem.
> 
> I did not have this problem a few months ago. I do not know if it is related 
> to Sierra or 4D or what.
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Re: Downloaded 4D app: structure file in read only mode

[Keisuke Miyako]

time for some reading:

https://developer.apple.com/library/content/technotes/tn2206/_index.html#//apple_ref/doc/uid/DTS40007919-CH1-TNTAG17

having said that, the concept of marking downloaded zip files is not a new 
thing.

Google "com.apple.quarantine"

> 2016/11/14 16:29、Robert Livingston  のメール：
> I did not have this problem a few months ago. I do not know if it is related 
> to Sierra or 4D or what.



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