Re: [9fans] inferno runs on n770 and n800/n810 (was: Re: How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?)
Hi, On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 9:37 PM, fge...@gmail.com wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Anthony Sorace ano...@gmail.com wrote: i like nokia's line, and would love to see a port of Plan 9 (or Inferno) to the 770 or N800 (there's an even newer one, but i forget the model off hand and don't own one of those). Inferno works perfectly on the n770 and probably on the n800, n810 as well. It's not packaged and doesn't have full-screen mode, but it's quite simple to get it running, though i could not find any use for it. The binary is in caerwyn's inferno emulator collection at http://code.google.com/p/inferno-bin/ and you can probably easily build it yoursef from the current distribution. I use my N810 as a portable (fun) development machine, I installed all the guff like gcc etc. And with that in place it took me an afternoon to download inferno and compile it up. This is on the N810 itself, not some hosted dev environment. The emu commandline works very well. I've not yet tried running wm, that's coming over the holidays. But just to have mk on the machine is a boon. My brain is too small for gmake. Having a native Plan 9 on it may be interesting, but probably a lot of work to get it to not empty the battery in 30 minutes. One thing to be said about the Maemo platform is that it is pretty good in terms of power consumption. Robby
Re: [9fans] inferno runs on n770 and n800/n810 (was: Re: How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?)
Hello ! And how about JIT ?? 2008/12/19 fge...@gmail.com On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Anthony Sorace ano...@gmail.com wrote: i like nokia's line, and would love to see a port of Plan 9 (or Inferno) to the 770 or N800 (there's an even newer one, but i forget the model off hand and don't own one of those). Inferno works perfectly on the n770 and probably on the n800, n810 as well. It's not packaged and doesn't have full-screen mode, but it's quite simple to get it running, though i could not find any use for it. The binary is in caerwyn's inferno emulator collection at http://code.google.com/p/inferno-bin/ and you can probably easily build it yoursef from the current distribution. -- С наилучшими пожеланиями Жилкин Сергей With best regards Zhilkin Sergey
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
The places that DMAPPEND is used most commonly are log files and mail boxes. mailboxes are append only, however deleting a message requires rewriting the mailbox, which isn't possible. so a temporary mbox is written, has its mode tweaked and then replaces the mbox. L.mbox is exclusive open and locks the whole directory to prevent accidents. since each message is in its own file, mdir uses atomic create(2) (OEXCL) for delivery. deleting is trivial. no L.mbox required. back to the subject. i agree with the point mixing append-only and regular fids would be a disaster. this is because (in general) it takes multiple writes to accomplish one's goal. in the case of a mailbox, it would not be safe to be adding a new message while rewriting to delete messages. an exclusive-open file would make much more sense. log files are the big exception, of course, nobody cares if the entries are reordered, as long as they remain intact. and since each entry is smaller than the iounit (syslog uses a 1k buffer), the can fit into a single write and can be ordered. - erik
Re: [9fans] Help with device and clone?
Meh, I keep forgetting to hit reply-all or something. 2008/12/19 erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net: That's where I was looking initially -- it looks like that's all only done when you're connecting to a venti, and it seems like it definitely happens after the links run anyway. Links happen after initseg(); that stuff happens in bootinit() in Plan 9 proper -- so that's where I did it in 9vx. I'm tempted to just use '#l' in ip/chandial.c right now until I have a more concrete idea about where binds *should* happen. There are still issues with etherve that I need to hammer out, I think. --dho sorry. i haven't really been following along. i am confused by the fact you're having troubles. if you're doing things in the same order as the native kernel, i don't see how you could be getting different results. unless there is some hack in 9vx that causes things to happen differently. There seem to be some differences in how things happen at start-up time, but they don't seem so severe. That's why I'm asking here :) (you're virtual ether0 is working now, right?) It works if I force chandial to look for it in '#l', and by works, I mean I haven't been able to test it on a live network yet :( --dho - erik
Re: [9fans] Help with device and clone?
i did get the original. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
client by definition knows more than the server. i assume you mean knows less? the server knows where EOF is and which files to enforce append-only on. your #1 seems to only exist because the client doesn't have that info.
Re: [9fans] how to install python?
2008/12/18 Rudolf Sykora rudolf.syk...@gmail.com:
Hello,
please, what's the easiest way to install python on plan9?
I found python.tgz under fgb. Is that the right way to go?
Thanks
Ruda
Hi Rudolf,
Perl and python are in the /n/sources/extra directories of sources.
This are my notes of how I installed perl for plan9, for python is the
same, but you get the idea.
In your plan9:
9fs sources; ls -l /n/sources/extra
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 rsc sys 14261804 Nov 25 2002 perl.iso.bz2
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 rsc sys 9404968 Sep 15 2003 pgw.tar.bz2
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 sys sys 2813 Oct 23 03:04 plan9.tar.bz2
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 rsc sys47744 Sep 14 2005 postmark.c
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 rsc sys40841 May 1 2002 pq.tgz
--rwxrwxr-x M 23 rsc sys 640 Nov 3 2004 ps2txt
--rw-rw-r-- M 23 rsc sys 4964315 Nov 16 2002 python.iso.bz2
To install it, I did the following:
1. Mount the iso.
mount /srv/9660 /n/dist /path/to/perl.iso
2. Copy the files to another directory, because they were read only
and I had to modify some files
dircp /n/dist /usr/glenda/perl/dist
3. Since I couldn't execute perl.setup, because they make references
to non existing files and directories. Do
/n/dist/replica/client/perl.db
/n/dist/replica/client/perl.log
4. Also modify /usr/glenda/perl/dist/perl
To look like this:
--
#!/bin/rc
s=/usr/glenda/perl/dist
serverroot=$s
serverlog=$s/perl.log
serverproto=$s/perl.proto
fn servermount { status='' }
fn serverupdate { status='' }
#fn clientmount { 9fs kfs }
c=/dist/replica
clientroot=/
clientproto=/sys/src/cmd/perl/perl.proto
clientdb=$c/client/perl.db
clientexclude=(dist/replica/client)
clientlog=$c/client/perl.log
--
5. Now you can do a pull.
replica/pull /usr/glenda/perl/dist/perl
--
http://vejeta.com/portal
Fidonet: 2:345/432.2
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Fri Dec 19 14:24:52 EST 2008, ano...@gmail.com wrote: client by definition knows more than the server. i assume you mean knows less? the server knows where EOF is and which files to enforce append-only on. your #1 seems to only exist because the client doesn't have that info. i think it's deeper than that. if the server has instructions to stick the write at the end of the file, the server has the ability to prevent any other writes while executing the append. doing this at the client side is hard because regardless of the client's knowledge, there can be other clients which also believe they know things equally well and without some sort of locking or other shenagins on the side, there's a race. the server is almost by definition in a better position to append than the client. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:21 AM, Anthony Sorace ano...@gmail.com wrote: client by definition knows more than the server. i assume you mean knows less? the server knows where EOF is and which files to enforce append-only on. your #1 seems to only exist because the client doesn't have that info. in stateless, client knows more, believe it or not. ron
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Dec 19, 2008, at 12:23 AM, Russ Cox wrote: Append-only and exclusive-use are properties of files and need to be enforced uniformly across all clients to be meaningful. They must be per-file, not per-fd. Two questions: 1. But before I ask this one: I don't deny that per-file append-only is *extremely* useful. My question is a different one: what is the danger of N clients accesing the file X in append-only mode and M clients accesing it in random access mode? Could you, please, give a concrete scenario? 2. Could you, please, answer the question in the original email of whether the kind of trivial patch (for the real thing you also need to handle O_APPEND in the fusecreate) I provided would be acceptable for the inclusion into Hg? I have no problem maintaining the extra code on the side, but if the change is deemed *not* to be acceptable that translates into it being dangerous or not good enough. And if that's the case I'd really appreciate an explanation to be given. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
Two questions: 1. But before I ask this one: I don't deny that per-file append-only is *extremely* useful. My question is a different one: what is the danger of N clients accesing the file X in append-only mode and M clients accesing it in random access mode? Could you, please, give a concrete scenario? credit geoff for bringing this up: upas mailboxes. suppose you have upas/deliver trying to deliver a message and at the same time you have upas/fs trying to rewrite the mailbox. (play along for a bit. ignore L.mbox and the temporary mbox tricks.) - erik
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Dec 19, 2008, at 8:44 AM, ron minnich wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:59 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: On Dec 18, 2008, at 7:26 PM, ron minnich wrote: On Thu, Dec 18, 2008 at 7:06 PM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: Its fun, yes. But I believe this is more of a testament to the statelessness of the NFS plus the fact that the end of file is not a well defined offset (unlike beginning of the file). no, it's even worse with stateful systems. you want to write at EOF. Where is EOF? On Plan 9 on an append file, server by definition always knows: it's where the last write was. So writes go at EOF. And how is it different from what I was suggesting: A Fid that makes *all* writes be at EOF? You want to write at EOF? Easy -- just use that pre-negotiated Fid that was opened with (now non existent) DMAPPEND flag added to the mode. You want a random-access write AT THE SAME TIME? Easy -- just open that very same Qid one more time and have a Fid that does honor offsets in your writes. Once again -- I don't deny that ALSO having ALWAYS append files is extremely useful. All I'm saying is that from where I sit the idea of ALSO having a way to make append-only Fids seems to be extremely useful in its own right. And nobody yet cared to give a concrete explanation of why it might be a bad idea. The 'client write at EOF' is bad for precisely the same reason that you don't want to use shared memory for locks in a CC-NUMA machine; you want to send the operation to the data, not move the data to the operation. Lots of great papers on this over the years ... That is exactly what I'm suggesting -- have yet another mechanism to let the server decide where the EOF is. Thanks, Roman. P.S. Am I that incomprehensible? :-(
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 11:49 AM, Roman Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: Two questions: 1. But before I ask this one: I don't deny that per-file append-only is *extremely* useful. My question is a different one: what is the danger of N clients accesing the file X in append-only mode and M clients accesing it in random access mode? Could you, please, give a concrete scenario? there are no problems if you don't care about the integrity of the data. ron
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Dec 19, 2008, at 11:56 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: Two questions: 1. But before I ask this one: I don't deny that per-file append- only is *extremely* useful. My question is a different one: what is the danger of N clients accesing the file X in append-only mode and M clients accesing it in random access mode? Could you, please, give a concrete scenario? credit geoff for bringing this up: upas mailboxes. suppose you have upas/deliver trying to deliver a message and at the same time you have upas/fs trying to rewrite the mailbox. (play along for a bit. ignore L.mbox and the temporary mbox tricks.) It is difficult to answer your question without knowing what rewrite actually does and how mailboxes are structured. But in an imaginary world where a mailbox is a list of constant sized blocks (sizeiounit) a bunch of simultaneous appends and rewrites of existing blocks would work perfectly well. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
It is difficult to answer your question without knowing what rewrite actually does and how mailboxes are structured. But in an imaginary world where a mailbox is a list of constant sized blocks (sizeiounit) a bunch of simultaneous appends and rewrites of existing blocks would work perfectly well. (your imaginary mailbox sounds like a wormhole that builds a filesystem inside a file.) a mailbox, if you recall from unix, is a bunch of messages concatinated into a file. each message is framed by a From line and a blank line. obviously, this is not efficient for big mailboxes. since i support users with GB+ mailboxes, i implemented a one-file-per message scheme which doesn't require append semantics, though it does use atomic open. - erik
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
if that -1 would be seen on the wire no. it's just a flag to select the code path that provides the offset, and entirely internal (just as well).
Re: [9fans] 9pfuse and O_APPEND
On Fri, Dec 19, 2008 at 1:32 PM, Charles Forsyth fors...@terzarima.net wrote: if that -1 would be seen on the wire no. it's just a flag to select the code path that provides the offset, and entirely internal (just as well). I figured as much. Oh well. Sorry, Roman. ron
[9fans] [possibly off-topic] something random I found a few months ago
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 A portion of the Mac OS X cat manual page. This was back in July. I don't remember if this was while I had OS X 10.4 or 10.5. Either way, it's the same now (10.5.6). CAT(1)BSD General Commands Manual CAT(1) NAME cat -- concatenate and print files SYNOPSIS cat [-benstuv] [-] [file ...] ... SEE ALSO head(1), more(1), pr(1), tail(1), vis(1) Rob Pike, UNIX Style, or cat -v Considered Harmful, USENIX Summer Conference Proceedings, 1983. HISTORY A cat utility appeared in Version 6 ATT UNIX. 3rd Berkeley Distribution May 2, 19953rd Berkeley Distribution -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.8 (Darwin) iEYEARECAAYFAklMMGYACgkQuv7AVNQDs+zkxQCbBbKrv9BemYfemXjkYUmtmAlA /+0An0Ho72xd9xqveL/Bbv7H97tAZWzh =annc -END PGP SIGNATURE-
[9fans] Embedded MIPS board
Have people seen http://wiki.ubnt.com/wiki/index.php/RouterStation ? Any idea on what porting the kernel to this guy would be like? Thanks. --nwf; pgpkIwKBWkcjF.pgp Description: PGP signature
