Re: [9fans] FileServer grid
So far it seems that there are no ready-made 9P-based solutions available for what you have in mind. At least I don't know of any. In any solution available there are costs to pay (economical or temporary ones). So I could write the code missinig, if the time required to write the filesystem sincronization and the session state handler would be a month. For more than a month the economical cost would be (more or less) equal to the prebuild solutions in the market. For writing the session state handler over 9P I estimate a week... If a sincronization system for the grid nodes (or a sintetic filesystem providing access to the grid and replicating writes among node) would require more than 3 weeks of man work probably I've no chance to get this solution approved. Thanks, Roman. Thanks you! Giacomo
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
I found a mirror at http://www.kix.in/plan9/mirror/sources/contrib/ It is working, cheers, ++pac -Original Message- From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net on behalf of Pietro Gagliardi Sent: Tue 2/10/2009 5:13 AM To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Subject: Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone?? I'm trying to transfer files from my Plan 9 virtual PC to Mac OS X for printing; QEMU has no USB yet and SAMBA fails on Mac OS X Leopard. I print on systems without plan9ports, and where I have no development tools (so I can't build it). Right now I've been using my FTP server, but it disconnects me after I access the PDF file, so I need to log on and delete it. On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Bruce Ellis wrote: 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/ . That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik winmail.dat
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Since the 9P service seems to be more stable, anyone willing to run an httpd process on Plan 9 can provide web-based access to others -- just mount /srv/sources within HTTP's namespace and provide webls access to the DIR. you know... if you really wanted to help in doing non-Plan 9-ish things ak ---BeginMessage--- I found a mirror at http://www.kix.in/plan9/mirror/sources/contrib/ It is working, cheers, ++pac -Original Message- From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net on behalf of Pietro Gagliardi Sent: Tue 2/10/2009 5:13 AM To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs Subject: Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone?? I'm trying to transfer files from my Plan 9 virtual PC to Mac OS X for printing; QEMU has no USB yet and SAMBA fails on Mac OS X Leopard. I print on systems without plan9ports, and where I have no development tools (so I can't build it). Right now I've been using my FTP server, but it disconnects me after I access the PDF file, so I need to log on and delete it. On Feb 9, 2009, at 11:04 PM, Bruce Ellis wrote: 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/ . That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik winmail.dat---End Message---
Re: [9fans] UPAS, IMAP, and SMTP
Ah. Just grabbing the 9fans label via GMail IMAP, with 540 or so messages, was horrible enough -- I can't imagine how horrible dealing with the All Mail label might be, just to move a few messages around. ak nupas is generally faster after the first connection. http://www.quanstro.net/plan9/nupas.pdf /n/sources/contrib/quanstro/src/nupas - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Personally, I use Mac OSX because I'm thick, but regardless of that, Pietro et al are quite right. Erik correctly said that if you try to access http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ it works fine. However, if you try to follow the link browse the source, you, or at least I, get the following: Object not found The object /plan9/sys/src/ does not exist on this server. errstr: '/bin/ip/httpd/sources' does not exist uri host: header host: actual host: plan9.bell-labs.com It's been this way for a couple of weeks. As it stands, at least for some people, web access to sources using a browser is not working. No need to shoot the messengers. 2009/2/10 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/. That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik
Re: [9fans] UPAS, IMAP, and SMTP
However, echo open '/imaps/imap.gmail.com/u...@example.com/All Mail' /mail/fs/ctl seems to create /mail/fs/Mail, but says it does not exist when I try to to access it. Quite weird. Is it just a naming problem with the space, or something different? i think i mentioned this before. this is a quirk of upas/nedmail — there are a few cases where ned assumes that you don't mean the already-open mailbox in /mail/fs and tries to reopen the same in /mail/box/$user. this can result in doubly-opened mailboxes. this is no big deal for small, local mailboxes. but with upas, it's a big pain if your mailbox is big and doesn't work if your mailbox doesn't live in /mail/box/$user i didn't think this behavior was helpful, so i changed ned to prefer already-open mailboxes: ; useupas ; echo open /mail/box/quanstro/t Mail /mail/fs/ctl ; upas/nedmail -f Mail !can't 'open Mail Mail': '/mail/box/quanstro/Mail' does not exist upas/nedmail: can't read ; usenupas ; echo open /mail/box/quanstro/x Mail /mail/fs/ctl minooka; upas/nedmail -f Mail 4 messages acme Mail already does the right thing as far as i can tell. - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Sorry 9fans. I'm having terrible trouble using my Nintendo and Lego to rebuild the kernel. It's been like this for at least a month. Should I upgrade to an Apple PC? I have an old 386 that runs Plan9 just fine but I really like my Nintendo. Sorry for the lack of any more details - I have to fix my bike so I don't have to take the school bus. Tiger On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Andrew Simmons kod...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I use Mac OSX because I'm thick, but regardless of that, Pietro et al are quite right. Erik correctly said that if you try to access http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ it works fine. However, if you try to follow the link browse the source, you, or at least I, get the following: Object not found The object /plan9/sys/src/ does not exist on this server. errstr: '/bin/ip/httpd/sources' does not exist uri host: header host: actual host: plan9.bell-labs.com It's been this way for a couple of weeks. As it stands, at least for some people, web access to sources using a browser is not working. No need to shoot the messengers. 2009/2/10 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/. That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Thank you for your advice, Skip and others, but I still can't access my 386 machine from school. My home IP is 10.0.0.4 - I have asked about this before but can't find the response. It has been like this for over a year. I tried using the Apple PC in the library - maybe I'm just thick. I have posted a good tutorial on my facebook page. Is there a good nroff package for use with facebook? You can chat with me in Second Life at lunch time if I'm clogging up this list too much. Please don't shoot the Avatar! Tiger On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry 9fans. I'm having terrible trouble using my Nintendo and Lego to rebuild the kernel. It's been like this for at least a month. Should I upgrade to an Apple PC? I have an old 386 that runs Plan9 just fine but I really like my Nintendo. Sorry for the lack of any more details - I have to fix my bike so I don't have to take the school bus. Tiger On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Andrew Simmons kod...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I use Mac OSX because I'm thick, but regardless of that, Pietro et al are quite right. Erik correctly said that if you try to access http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ it works fine. However, if you try to follow the link browse the source, you, or at least I, get the following: Object not found The object /plan9/sys/src/ does not exist on this server. errstr: '/bin/ip/httpd/sources' does not exist uri host: header host: actual host: plan9.bell-labs.com It's been this way for a couple of weeks. As it stands, at least for some people, web access to sources using a browser is not working. No need to shoot the messengers. 2009/2/10 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/. That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Thank you for your off-list advice, Mr jmk. I will visit the toy store after band practice. What model do you recommend? I have been saving my pocket money for just such a purpose. You seem to be very good at Plan9. How do I learn such things? I'm a newbie. Do you play Unreal Tournament? I heard a rumour that it is used at Bell Labs. I am still a bit confused about the cost of Plan9. I don't want to be using a pirated copy, as I might get grounded. Also is qemu part of Inferno? Tiger On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 12:49 AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Thank you for your advice, Skip and others, but I still can't access my 386 machine from school. My home IP is 10.0.0.4 - I have asked about this before but can't find the response. It has been like this for over a year. I tried using the Apple PC in the library - maybe I'm just thick. I have posted a good tutorial on my facebook page. Is there a good nroff package for use with facebook? You can chat with me in Second Life at lunch time if I'm clogging up this list too much. Please don't shoot the Avatar! Tiger On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 11:45 PM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: Sorry 9fans. I'm having terrible trouble using my Nintendo and Lego to rebuild the kernel. It's been like this for at least a month. Should I upgrade to an Apple PC? I have an old 386 that runs Plan9 just fine but I really like my Nintendo. Sorry for the lack of any more details - I have to fix my bike so I don't have to take the school bus. Tiger On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 8:53 PM, Andrew Simmons kod...@gmail.com wrote: Personally, I use Mac OSX because I'm thick, but regardless of that, Pietro et al are quite right. Erik correctly said that if you try to access http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ it works fine. However, if you try to follow the link browse the source, you, or at least I, get the following: Object not found The object /plan9/sys/src/ does not exist on this server. errstr: '/bin/ip/httpd/sources' does not exist uri host: header host: actual host: plan9.bell-labs.com It's been this way for a couple of weeks. As it stands, at least for some people, web access to sources using a browser is not working. No need to shoot the messengers. 2009/2/10 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com 9fs not good enough for you? what operating system are you using? brucee On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:26 AM, Nicola Gagliardi pietr...@mac.com wrote: I'm talking about the web interface to /n/sources/contrib, which is http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/contrib/. That has been down for two weeks. On Monday, February 09, 2009, at 08:08AM, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: I will not comment - I've been asked to leave 95% boy alone. Certainly works from Brazil. I downloaded a CD image just last night. brucee On Mon, Feb 9, 2009 at 11:52 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: This is my only concern over the whole sources is gone thing; this time the web interface has been down for longer than usual (two weeks, maybe more?). not true. i just tried it an http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/ comes up instantly. perhaps your machine is on the fritz? - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
All parody aside, Bruce, the service did exist at one point, and it existed because it was useful to enough people for the labs to make it and set it up. It's been available for several years. Hiccups aside, it's a bummer that it's down for so long. At this point, I'd think it would be obvious that there are people other than the 5 of us who actually have a Plan 9 machine to drawterm into or an easily-accessible 9vx instance. Even despite the fact that I *do* have access to Plan 9 machines and that I *do* have access to 9vx instances, I find myself looking at the web-exported source during times it would be infeasible for me to access them (while I'm at work, for instance). This is the same thread that comes through 9fans monthly -- - ``What happened to X?'' = ``Screw X'' - ``But I actually use X'' = ``Who cares'' = ``X sucks and so do you'' = ``Go blow goats, etc.'' I can appreciate the humor, but not at the expense of dismissing the problem. If the labs don't want to keep the thing running, great, someone else can sync with sources and provide that interface. So, let's change the question: ``Labs guys, is that thing dead, and should we set another one up -- or are we back in another hiccup period?'' ``Mockery is easy. Helping people is hard.'' It amuses me that, having come up with such a degrading rant about wanting to access sources via HTTP, you're sending email on your proverbial Nintendo Lego blocks. --dho
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
iirc sources is down because there was some heavy scraping going on that was maxing out the CPU at the labs, see 9fans passim I've found it frustrating, but mostly when trying to show off mad Glenda skillz on reddit / slashdot. The wiki points to a contrib mirror on 9grid.de that goes to a spam page and another to a 404 - http://sirviente.9grid.es/sources/ and another to a dead domain - http://plan9.kix.in/mirror/sources/ I wonder if http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Setting_up_a_sources_mirror/ still works :
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
i may be wrong here but http://9fans.net/archive/2008/10/99 may be suggesting why these problems are occuring. if i'm correct, i feel compeled to say: what's the problem with using old threads that discuss the same issue? iru
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
i may be wrong here but http://9fans.net/archive/2008/10/99 may be suggesting why these problems are occuring. if i'm correct, i feel compeled to say: what's the problem with using old threads that discuss the same issue? iru while culling my last set of links I did notice that I got a few object not found, remote side hung up in httpd error message format, though it seems sporadic rather than ongoing (I can't reproduce it now!) Thus a new saying If you want Plan9 you know where it's hidden!
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 04:31:32PM +, matt wrote: i may be wrong here but http://9fans.net/archive/2008/10/99 may be suggesting why these problems are occuring. if i'm correct, i feel compeled to say: what's the problem with using old threads that discuss the same issue? iru while culling my last set of links I did notice that I got a few object not found, remote side hung up in httpd error message format, though it seems sporadic rather than ongoing (I can't reproduce it now!) Thus a new saying If you want Plan9 you know where it's hidden! Would sharing /sys/src be enough for people? -- vs
Re: [9fans] FileServer grid
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Giacomo Tesio giac...@tesio.it wrote: If a sincronization system for the grid nodes (or a sintetic filesystem providing access to the grid and replicating writes among node) would require more than 3 weeks of man work probably I've no chance to get this solution approved. 3 weeks? I think you have a problem here. Stop now. This is a non trivial problem. At least from what I know. ron
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
i've updated the mirrors page; right now, it's only got 9grid.es right now. i've also removed the explicit mention of specific mirrors from the sources repository page, where i think you were seeing what you were seeing. i've changed it to reference the mirrors page. i only saw 9grid.de on the contrib index page; i've removed that. that page is automatically generated, although that hasn't run in a while. i'm reworking that script a bit; the new version will refer to the wiki page on mirrors. i expect to be running that more regularly by the end of the week.
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
I just found a PC on the street, in Brazil, and it runs Plan9 fine - ten minutes to install. So don't cry to me. I've changed my password so that Tiger can't use my account. He is very happy with the crap machine. I just hate all the non-technical whining on here. Can someone look into the web interface? would have worked. brucee On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 3:45 AM, Anthony Sorace ano...@gmail.com wrote: i've updated the mirrors page; right now, it's only got 9grid.es right now. i've also removed the explicit mention of specific mirrors from the sources repository page, where i think you were seeing what you were seeing. i've changed it to reference the mirrors page. i only saw 9grid.de on the contrib index page; i've removed that. that page is automatically generated, although that hasn't run in a while. i'm reworking that script a bit; the new version will refer to the wiki page on mirrors. i expect to be running that more regularly by the end of the week.
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
I just hate all the non-technical whining on here. technical whining, now i'm all for that. - erik
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
2009/2/10 Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com: I just hate all the non-technical whining on here. Agreed Can someone look into the web interface? would have worked. Agreed brucee -dho
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Devon H. O'Dell wrote: Can someone look into the web interface? would have worked. Agreed +1 Agreed. But let's not devolve into the OpenBSD-every-word-must-be-right-or-you-get-flamed culture.
[9fans] source browsing via http is back
I've turned it back on and will watch to see if our web server gets swamped by it. This interface should not be used to mirror the contents of sources.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
Thank you geoff. You are one of the good guys. And I've never heard you whine. Now, back to work for brucee and Tiger. brucee On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:49 AM, ge...@plan9.bell-labs.com wrote: I've turned it back on and will watch to see if our web server gets swamped by it. This interface should not be used to mirror the contents of sources.
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
+2 agreed. As you can see I screwed up the last mail. I find it difficult to speak portuguese and write in english at the same time, but I'm learning - not whining. Shoot me. brucee On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 5:46 AM, Wes Kussmaul w...@authentrus.com wrote: Devon H. O'Dell wrote: Can someone look into the web interface? would have worked. Agreed +1 Agreed. But let's not devolve into the OpenBSD-every-word-must-be-right-or-you-get-flamed culture.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
I've turned it back on and will watch to see if our web server gets swamped by it. This interface should not be used to mirror the contents of sources. What interface should be used to used to mirror sources? 9fs? replica? More specifically, if I wanted to set up my own HTTP mirror of sources, what is the labs approved way to stay in sync?
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:10 PM, John Barham jbar...@gmail.com wrote: I've turned it back on and will watch to see if our web server gets swamped by it. This interface should not be used to mirror the contents of sources. What interface should be used to used to mirror sources? 9fs? replica? More specifically, if I wanted to set up my own HTTP mirror of sources, what is the labs approved way to stay in sync? since 9fs never stopped working, why could you not just export (with httpd) from your machine a -C mount of sources? then the robots hammer you but since you're cached, you don't hammer sources? ron
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 01:15:11PM -0800, ron minnich wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 1:10 PM, John Barham jbar...@gmail.com wrote: I've turned it back on and will watch to see if our web server gets swamped by it. This interface should not be used to mirror the contents of sources. What interface should be used to used to mirror sources? 9fs? replica? More specifically, if I wanted to set up my own HTTP mirror of sources, what is the labs approved way to stay in sync? since 9fs never stopped working, why could you not just export (with httpd) from your machine a -C mount of sources? then the robots hammer you but since you're cached, you don't hammer sources? Sorry to rain on your parade as it were, but occasionally 9fs to sources does, in fact, stop working. See my and others' posts to 9fans about sources and especially sources' venti being down. I again propose that sources should be mirrorable via venti (and venti/copy -f); the nightly snapshots would be walked with auth/none vac into a publically readable venti (venti/ro proxy) and the scores published (and signed). In order to make this more palatable, it may be worth developing a venti proxy that attempts to pull blocks from closer ventis rather than further ones and to make sources' public venti artificially further away (induce a delay of half a second or something per Tread). I've some tentative writeup on https://wiki.ietfng.org/pub/Plan9/VentiMirror and even some code flying locally but nothing about which to be proud. --nwf; pgp52t11yuMXD.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] Web interface to '/n/sources/contrib' gone??
Hello I should update wiki: http://9grid.es/sources It is not updated, as i stopped the mirroring process when all this started in november 2008 more or less. slds. gabi El 10/02/2009, a las 17:02, matt escribió: iirc sources is down because there was some heavy scraping going on that was maxing out the CPU at the labs, see 9fans passim I've found it frustrating, but mostly when trying to show off mad Glenda skillz on reddit / slashdot. The wiki points to a contrib mirror on 9grid.de that goes to a spam page and another to a 404 - http://sirviente.9grid.es/sources/ and another to a dead domain - http://plan9.kix.in/mirror/sources/ I wonder if http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Setting_up_a_sources_mirror/ still works :
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
I again propose that sources should be mirrorable via venti (and venti/copy -f); the nightly snapshots would be walked with auth/none vac into a publically readable venti (venti/ro proxy) and the scores published (and signed). In order to make this more palatable, it may be worth developing a venti proxy that attempts to pull blocks from closer ventis rather than further ones and to make sources' public venti artificially further away (induce a delay of half a second or something per Tread). I've some tentative writeup on https://wiki.ietfng.org/pub/Plan9/VentiMirror and even some code flying locally but nothing about which to be proud. i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? - erik
Re: [9fans] FileServer grid
is it too much for a syntetic filesystem 9P based? or too few? On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:37 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Giacomo Tesio giac...@tesio.it wrote: If a sincronization system for the grid nodes (or a sintetic filesystem providing access to the grid and replicating writes among node) would require more than 3 weeks of man work probably I've no chance to get this solution approved. 3 weeks? I think you have a problem here. Stop now. This is a non trivial problem. At least from what I know. ron
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 16:32 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: I again propose that sources should be mirrorable via venti (and venti/copy -f); the nightly snapshots would be walked with auth/none vac into a publically readable venti (venti/ro proxy) and the scores published (and signed). In order to make this more palatable, it may be worth developing a venti proxy that attempts to pull blocks from closer ventis rather than further ones and to make sources' public venti artificially further away (induce a delay of half a second or something per Tread). I've some tentative writeup on https://wiki.ietfng.org/pub/Plan9/VentiMirror and even some code flying locally but nothing about which to be proud. i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? since replica requires some (albeit automatic) periodic work on the server end it means that there's one more thing for bell lab folks to care about and maintain. that said, a brand new Venti proxy or what not will probably be even worse for them :-( Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? since replica requires some (albeit automatic) periodic work on the server end it means that there's one more thing for bell lab folks to care about and maintain. that said, a brand new Venti proxy or what not will probably be even worse for them :-( the replica logs are already generated and already required for existing functionality — pull — to work. - erik
Re: [9fans] FileServer grid
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 09:06 +0100, Giacomo Tesio wrote: So far it seems that there are no ready-made 9P-based solutions available for what you have in mind. At least I don't know of any. In any solution available there are costs to pay (economical or temporary ones). On the side of existing tools/solutions you may find this one interesting: http://www.ultramonkey.org/ Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 16:55 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? since replica requires some (albeit automatic) periodic work on the server end it means that there's one more thing for bell lab folks to care about and maintain. that said, a brand new Venti proxy or what not will probably be even worse for them :-( the replica logs are already generated and already required for existing functionality — pull — to work. What do you mean they are already generated? The script(s) try to generate them. When they fail they need a manual intervention. That was my entire point. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 04:32:18PM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? I wish to enable mirrors of sourcesdump as well. Replica would do lots of extra work and transfer, vs. venti/copy -f, yes? --nwf; pgp7b1NmX7OQx.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 17:13 -0500, Nathaniel W Filardo wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 01:51:47PM -0800, Roman V. Shaposhnik wrote: since replica requires some (albeit automatic) periodic work on the server end it means that there's one more thing for bell lab folks to care about and maintain. that said, a brand new Venti proxy or what not will probably be even worse for them :-( Under the proposed scheme, clients and maybe mirrors, not sources, run the new proxy. Sources runs only a venti and venti/ro, unmodified, to allow clients and mirrors to fetch blocks, and auth/none vac. Is this unreasonable? It would be completely reasonable (and I wager *less* work for bell labs folks than keeping an eye on replica) if that venti was only hosting blocks coming from sources. As far as I know that's not the case. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 04:22:42PM -0500, Nathaniel W Filardo wrote: since 9fs never stopped working, why could you not just export (with httpd) from your machine a -C mount of sources? then the robots hammer you but since you're cached, you don't hammer sources? Sorry to rain on your parade as it were, but occasionally 9fs to sources does, in fact, stop working. See my and others' posts to 9fans about sources and especially sources' venti being down. Rereading my own mail, that sounded remarkably ungrateful and I apologize. I was intending only to suggest that true mirrors may be better than depending on sources' continuous uptime (and introducing additional services that break if sources goes down, even for scheduled maintainence). Thanks again to the labs for all their work for supporting the community. --nwf; pgpqaS4oZdXr8.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 17:10 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 04:32:18PM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: i'm still not following why replica won't work? getting in underneath the fs seems to require some extra justification and it seems to require some very low-level modifications. and yet the file interface provides what i think one would need for such a project. what is wrong with replica that can't be reasonably fixed? I wish to enable mirrors of sourcesdump as well. Replica would do lots of extra work and transfer, vs. venti/copy -f, yes? what extra work would that be, and if there is extra work, could you explain why this would be a problem? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of how pull works is that it pulls files in their entirety (IOW: cp /n/sources/... /) which means that shared blocks get copied as many times as there are files sharing them. Thanks, Roman.
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
what extra work would that be, and if there is extra work, could you explain why this would be a problem? Correct me if I'm wrong, but my understanding of how pull works is that it pulls files in their entirety (IOW: cp /n/sources/... /) which means that shared blocks get copied as many times as there are files sharing them. i would be very suprised if a single copy of sources had many shared blocks. furthermore, as is made quite plain by upas, a change early in a file almost always changes every subsequent block in the file. there are some corner cases for block-sized or same sized adds/deletes. but nontheless, the vast majority of changes will change a good deal of of the blocks comprising the file. what leads you to beleve that that amount of sharing will be significant? - erik
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
it works fine on my found machine. and my $300 eeePC. 9vx (built on another computer, and off of an external HDD) works just fine in eeePC. But what are you using for a Plan 9 environment on that thing? in case your milkshake's better than mine ak
[9fans] 9fans Archives
In the Plan 9 spirit, how about serving them over 9P? That and an Acme interface completes the picture. Then I can properly conduct searches too. no more wasting time with unresourceful web browsers ak
[9fans] Plan 9 source history (was: Re: source browsing via http is back)
On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 02:45:43PM -0800, Roman V. Shaposhnik wrote: On Tue, 2009-02-10 at 17:28 -0500, erik quanstrom wrote: what leads you to beleve that that amount of sharing will be significant? Just a hunch so far. I don't have hard data to prove anything. On the other hand, I'd be surprised if massive updates (not pulling in a couple of months) didn't benefit from the sharing. Thanks, Roman. I have mirrored, with vac -f, every sources dump from 2002 to yesterday with -e acme/acid/386 -e acme/acid/alpha -e acme/acid/arm \ -e acme/acid/mips -e acme/acid/power -e acme/bin/386 \ -e acme/bin/alpha -e acme/bin/arm -e acme/bin/mips \ -e acme/bin/power -e acme/mail/386 -e acme/mail/alpha \ -e acme/mail/arm -e acme/mail/mips -e acme/mail/power \ -e sys/man/vol1.ps -e sys/man/vol1.ps.gz -e sys/man/vol1.pdf \ LICENSE* NOTICE acme lib rc sys ; intending to get all the source and not the binaries. I patched my vac to ignore atimes (replacing the vac metadata field with the mtime) to increase metadata block sharing. As of 2009/0205 (a convenient snapshot to du), this represents about 140.7 MB of data per dump. The entire copy takes 550 MB (240 MB actual storage in Venti). (With no sharing whatsoever, this would be approx. 310 GB.) I would like to re-archive this with the Rabin fingerprinting vac for comparison. (In case anybody wants to rush out and recreate the results, it took roughly 10 to 15 minutes per dump to dispatch all the Tstat requests to sources.) Incidentally, a git repository of the crawls, from 2002/1212 to 2009/0205, is available at http://mirrors.acm.jhu.edu/trees/plan9native/ . Git gets the data down to 165M after a gc run, so perhaps it's a better idea than a venti-based mirror. I haven't managed to make my version of Uriel's port (thanks for the start! :) ) of git do the right thing in enough cases yet, so the git repo may not be updated for a while, but I figured somebody might want to play with it in the interim. --nwf; pgp70dn2xgB8F.pgp Description: PGP signature
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 source history (was: Re: source browsing via http is back)
(240 MB actual storage in Venti). (With no sharing whatsoever, this would be approx. 310 GB.) I would like to re-archive this with the Rabin fingerprinting vac for comparison. by no sharing do you mean if each file tree were stored in a seperate fs, or do you mean that the original fs + one copy of each file each time it has changed is 310GB? i'm guessing the former? - erik
Re: [9fans] source browsing via http is back
i have no problem with pragmatism. brucee On Wed, Feb 11, 2009 at 11:28 AM, Roman V. Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: On Wed, 2009-02-11 at 11:22 +1100, Bruce Ellis wrote: get over it. it works fine on my found machine. and my $300 eeePC. what exactly doesn't work? no argument there. my automechanic still uses MS DOS 5.0. works great for him. i tried to tell him about plan9, but strangely enough he also told me to get over it. Thanks, Roman. p.s. oh, and he's charges the least for the most reasonable service in the area. think coincidence? i think not!
Re: [9fans] FileServer grid
starting with something like /sys/src/cmd/nfs.c or ramfs.c and a setup like this: mount /stuff /n/node0 import node1 /stuff /n/node1 import node2 /stuff /n/node2 fscreate and fsopen would create or open /n/node[012]/file and fswrite would write to /n/node[012]/file. a good developer (not necessarily a superstar) could write it in a week. but this assumption -- that this would work better than if all the nodes accessed a reliable file server -- is wrong. is it too much for a syntetic filesystem 9P based? or too few? On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 5:37 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote: On Tue, Feb 10, 2009 at 12:06 AM, Giacomo Tesio giac...@tesio.it wrote: If a sincronization system for the grid nodes (or a sintetic filesystem providing access to the grid and replicating writes among node) would require more than 3 weeks of man work probably I've no chance to get this solution approved. 3 weeks? I think you have a problem here. Stop now. This is a non trivial problem. At least from what I know. ron
