[9fans] music video that everone on this list will agree with :-)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XHosLhPEN3k :-) Arnold
Re: [9fans] music video that everone on this list will agree with :-)
Yep!! Another one: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J5LNTTGDKYo ++pac == C++ is to C as lung cancer is to lung . [anonymous on the Web] == winmail.dat
[9fans] grist for the synchronous vs. asynchronous mill
http://www.classhat.com/tymaPaulMultithread.pdf
Re: [9fans] hardware idea
erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: Probably easier to develop on: http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7800 The NAND annoyingly is not via the SoC and there are a few other quirks however as you can boot off the SD card (making it unbrickable and dead easy to play with kernel dev work), it has real serial ports where you do not have to faff with to get them and of course the SATA ports. nice find. thanks. too bad it doesn't expose all 4 sata ports. and way too bad that currently 0 toy budget $1. The Marvell SoC only has the one controller with two ports going out anway so I am pretty sure it's a SATA port multiplier you would be playing around with in there, and that's going to be fustrating. Cheers -- Alexander Clouter .sigmonster says: manic-depressive, adj.: Easy glum, easy glow.
Re: [9fans] hardware idea
The Marvell SoC only has the one controller with two ports going out anway so I am pretty sure it's a SATA port multiplier you would be playing around with in there, and that's going to be fustrating. it has one controller with 2 edma units (ports). see p. 70, chp 8 fig. 14 of http://www.marvell.com/files/products/media/88F5182_User_Manual.pdf for details. this is similar to ahci which can have up to 32 ports per controller without a port multiplier. - erik
Re: [9fans] grist for the synchronous vs. asynchronous mill
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 6:34 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: On Tue Mar 24 08:54:12 EDT 2009, rogpe...@gmail.com wrote: http://www.classhat.com/tymaPaulMultithread.pdf seems more like grist for the task vs. process debate. not that the outcome is in doubt. except that they only went to 1000 threads. Once we hit more than that, linux fell over badly for us on even a big machine. i assume it didn't fall over uniformly. what was the weak point? scheduling? - erik
Re: [9fans] music video that everone on this list will agree with :-)
…and do you believe in yesterday(1)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXDikj1i7w or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpdiXspBALg; no idea which is the more faithful rendition. —Joel Salomon
[9fans] kernel tag bug?
it looks like devcons is suffering from some sort of tag collision. a Rwrite is coming back for a Tread. Sat Jan 24 09:43:47: mnt: proc rc 10946: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf63661a8 tag 1 fid 1170 T116 R119 rp 1 Sat Jan 24 10:06:26: unexpected reply tag 1; type 117 Fri Jan 30 15:21:48: 336082 page: checked 75 page table entries Wed Mar 18 11:27:27: mnt: proc rc 4632855: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf69e84e8 tag 37 fid 5644 T116 R119 rp 37 i don't immediately see the cause of the problem. - erik
[9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
I was poking around for what it would take to get there. I found this[1]. I am basically looking to have a way to do routing using Plan 9. You can already do that on any standard Linux using Quagga[2] based on GNU Zebra. Maybe there is a filesystem that exposes the kernel routing table to user space for certain routing algorithm scripts to hack upon? My objective is to be able to implement a new routing protocol on a router created using a standard computer with multiple NIC cards, maybe on a model P2P type network? I also would love to see what having /net on a router would enable us to do. Has anyone any experience with using Plan 9 on routers? -- Rahul Murmuria [1] http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid39_gci1102834,00.html [2] http://www.quagga.net/docs/quagga.html#SEC3
[9fans] drawterm font
Not a big issue, but is it possible to change the default font in drawterm? I imagine once logged in successfully, it could be changed via arguments to rio, but I'm talking about during the text-only login. I ask because my 'bootes' account's profile doesn't start rio, so I occasionally use it to do command-line-only administration things, like adding users. The default font tends to be a bit large though, given the size of my display... I should mention that this is the Windows version... Many thanks in advance! -Ben winmail.dat
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
2009/3/24 Rahul Murmuria rahul.is.a...@gmail.com: I was poking around for what it would take to get there. I found this[1]. I am basically looking to have a way to do routing using Plan 9. You can already do that on any standard Linux using Quagga[2] based on GNU Zebra. Maybe there is a filesystem that exposes the kernel routing table to user space for certain routing algorithm scripts to hack upon? My objective is to be able to implement a new routing protocol on a router created using a standard computer with multiple NIC cards, maybe on a model P2P type network? I also would love to see what having /net on a router would enable us to do. Has anyone any experience with using Plan 9 on routers? Are you a student? This kind of stuff has interested me quite a bit in Plan 9 (though more from a packet classification standpoint -- read: firewalling), and it seems like a nifty project for GSoC. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing similar to the OSPF/BGP/RIP support directly in Plan 9. I am pretty sure Charles has written a RIP daemon that is in sources somewhere. --Devon -- Rahul Murmuria [1] http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid39_gci1102834,00.html [2] http://www.quagga.net/docs/quagga.html#SEC3
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Devon H. O'Dell devon.od...@gmail.com wrote: 2009/3/24 Rahul Murmuria rahul.is.a...@gmail.com: I was poking around for what it would take to get there. I found this[1]. I am basically looking to have a way to do routing using Plan 9. You can already do that on any standard Linux using Quagga[2] based on GNU Zebra. Maybe there is a filesystem that exposes the kernel routing table to user space for certain routing algorithm scripts to hack upon? My objective is to be able to implement a new routing protocol on a router created using a standard computer with multiple NIC cards, maybe on a model P2P type network? I also would love to see what having /net on a router would enable us to do. Has anyone any experience with using Plan 9 on routers? Are you a student? This kind of stuff has interested me quite a bit in Plan 9 (though more from a packet classification standpoint -- read: firewalling), and it seems like a nifty project for GSoC. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing similar to the OSPF/BGP/RIP support directly in Plan 9. I am pretty sure Charles has written a RIP daemon that is in sources somewhere. RIP is fairly simplistic, I wonder if Plan 9 exposes enough information via /net to actually implement OSPF. You need to know load-balancing, bandwidth and distance metrics that RIP doesn't care about. --Devon -- Rahul Murmuria [1] http://searchenterpriselinux.techtarget.com/tip/1,289483,sid39_gci1102834,00.html [2] http://www.quagga.net/docs/quagga.html#SEC3
Re: [9fans] drawterm font
I ask because my 'bootes' account's profile doesn't start rio, so I occasionally use it to do command-line-only administration things, like adding users. why not drawterm as yourself and cpu -u bootes if you can't access the console via C? - erik
Re: [9fans] kernel tag bug?
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:59 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: it looks like devcons is suffering from some sort of tag collision. a Rwrite is coming back for a Tread. Sat Jan 24 09:43:47: mnt: proc rc 10946: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf63661a8 tag 1 fid 1170 T116 R119 rp 1 Sat Jan 24 10:06:26: unexpected reply tag 1; type 117 Fri Jan 30 15:21:48: 336082 page: checked 75 page table entries Wed Mar 18 11:27:27: mnt: proc rc 4632855: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf69e84e8 tag 37 fid 5644 T116 R119 rp 37 i don't immediately see the cause of the problem. i've seen this for years in various forms but it had never happened regularly enough to track down, and it was never clear that it was the kernel's fault (and not, say, the 9p server). if you want to look for the problem, you might find it easier in 9vx. i see it in 9vx all the time if i interrupt an outstanding 9p message by typing DEL. 9fs sources; ls /n/sources; DEL on a slow connection, for example. russ
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
Maybe there is a filesystem that exposes the kernel routing table to user space for certain routing algorithm scripts to hack upon? #I publishes routes in iproute, typically bound so that this appears as /net/iproute. that's probablly a good start. - erik
Re: [9fans] drawterm font
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:35 PM, Benjamin Huntsman bhunts...@mail2.cu-portland.edu wrote: Not a big issue, but is it possible to change the default font in drawterm? no; the bitmaps for the ascii characters are embedded in the drawterm binary. you could perhaps arrange to build a different binary but it is easier to use rio. you could start a rio with a single large window automatically and then at least you'd have the benefit of snarf/paste, scroll, etc. russ
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
Hi Devon! On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Devon H. O'Dell devon.od...@gmail.com wrote: Are you a student? This kind of stuff has interested me quite a bit in Plan 9 (though more from a packet classification standpoint -- read: firewalling), and it seems like a nifty project for GSoC. Yes, I am a student. I qualify for GSoC but I was planning not to apply, as from where I see it, that brings in restrictions to the independence of thought. I am open to applying though, if this is a good enough (and small enough) idea for SoC. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing similar to the OSPF/BGP/RIP support directly in Plan 9. I am pretty sure Charles has written a RIP daemon that is in sources somewhere. /net on routers is something I have wanted for sometime now too. I am a member of the Glendix project (http://www.glendix.org) and have discussed the same ideas for Glendix recently. I was told that Inferno has ventured into such waters before. Are you sure there in no information on anyone trying Plan 9 on/as a Router? --Devon @ Mauro On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:51 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: RIP is fairly simplistic, I wonder if Plan 9 exposes enough information via /net to actually implement OSPF. You need to know load-balancing, bandwidth and distance metrics that RIP doesn't care about. I am willing to explore this area. Maybe if /net reaches every router, such metrics can be retrieved and exchanged between the routers like other router OSes do (or maybe better than they already do) ? I am planning to understand JUNOS using the documentation on their website, but I am not sure if I want to go though the CCNA books for Cisco IOS like you recommended. I have hardly any prior experience in the area, but initial design info finds me inclining towards JUNOS more. -- Rahul Murmuria
Re: [9fans] drawterm font
the bitmaps for the ascii characters are embedded in the drawterm binary. That's libdraw/defont.c, right? I'll see about swapping that around for latin1.7, my personal favorite, just for the heck of it, though for now, doing the single large window is more-or-less what I was after anyway. Thanks!! -Ben winmail.dat
Re: [9fans] kernel tag bug?
On Tue Mar 24 16:00:54 EDT 2009, r...@swtch.com wrote: On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 10:59 AM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: it looks like devcons is suffering from some sort of tag collision. a Rwrite is coming back for a Tread. Sat Jan 24 09:43:47: mnt: proc rc 10946: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf63661a8 tag 1 fid 1170 T116 R119 rp 1 Sat Jan 24 10:06:26: unexpected reply tag 1; type 117 Fri Jan 30 15:21:48: 336082 page: checked 75 page table entries Wed Mar 18 11:27:27: mnt: proc rc 4632855: mismatch from /mnt/temp/data /dev/cons rep 0xf69e84e8 tag 37 fid 5644 T116 R119 rp 37 i don't immediately see the cause of the problem. i've seen this for years in various forms but it had never happened regularly enough to track down, and it was never clear that it was the kernel's fault (and not, say, the 9p server). doesn't the kernel get credit either way? either it's the source (devmnt) or the server (devcons). am i missing something? if i interrupt an outstanding 9p message by typing DEL. 9fs sources; ls /n/sources; DEL interesting. maybe the read was interrupted. devmnt picked the same tag for a write and immediately got the interrupted read back. - erik
Re: [9fans] kernel tag bug?
doesn't the kernel get credit either way? either it's the source (devmnt) or the server (devcons). am i missing something? if devmnt is involved, devcons is not. it is some 9P server mounted on /dev/cons, not the kernel's devcons. russ
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 4:05 PM, Rahul Murmuria rahul.is.a...@gmail.com wrote: Hi Devon! On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:45 PM, Devon H. O'Dell devon.od...@gmail.com wrote: Are you a student? This kind of stuff has interested me quite a bit in Plan 9 (though more from a packet classification standpoint -- read: firewalling), and it seems like a nifty project for GSoC. Yes, I am a student. I qualify for GSoC but I was planning not to apply, as from where I see it, that brings in restrictions to the independence of thought. I am open to applying though, if this is a good enough (and small enough) idea for SoC. As far as I'm aware, there is nothing similar to the OSPF/BGP/RIP support directly in Plan 9. I am pretty sure Charles has written a RIP daemon that is in sources somewhere. /net on routers is something I have wanted for sometime now too. I am a member of the Glendix project (http://www.glendix.org) and have discussed the same ideas for Glendix recently. I was told that Inferno has ventured into such waters before. Are you sure there in no information on anyone trying Plan 9 on/as a Router? --Devon @ Mauro On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 3:51 PM, J.R. Mauro jrm8...@gmail.com wrote: RIP is fairly simplistic, I wonder if Plan 9 exposes enough information via /net to actually implement OSPF. You need to know load-balancing, bandwidth and distance metrics that RIP doesn't care about. I am willing to explore this area. Maybe if /net reaches every router, such metrics can be retrieved and exchanged between the routers like other router OSes do (or maybe better than they already do) ? I am planning to understand JUNOS using the documentation on their website, but I am not sure if I want to go though the CCNA books for Cisco IOS like you recommended. I have hardly any prior experience in the area, but initial design info finds me inclining towards JUNOS more. As long as you understand what you need to implement the protocols, the rest will fall into place. OSPF's spec is freely available, as is RIP and BGP. There are some Cisco protocols that AFAIK are closed, but I doubt you would need them. -- Rahul Murmuria
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
On Tue, 24 Mar 2009 16:05:08 EDT Rahul Murmuria rahul.is.a...@gmail.com wrote: I am willing to explore this area. Maybe if /net reaches every router, such metrics can be retrieved and exchanged between the routers like other router OSes do (or maybe better than they already do) ? I am planning to understand JUNOS using the documentation on their website, but I am not sure if I want to go though the CCNA books for Cisco IOS like you recommended. I have hardly any prior experience in the area, but initial design info finds me inclining towards JUNOS more. OSPF and BGP are not exactly SoC projects but one place to start may be openospfd and openbgpd from www.openbgp.org. For any serious work you will need more than what JUNOS documentation can give you.
Re: [9fans] music video that everone on this list will agree with :-)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 I remember this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q5THcoVW0oM Youtube is fine to find some old things :-) - -- - -kix- http://www.kix.es/ Joel C. Salomon escribió: …and do you believe in yesterday(1)? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BXDikj1i7w or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rpdiXspBALg; no idea which is the more faithful rendition. —Joel Salomon -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.9 (MingW32) Comment: Using GnuPG with Mozilla - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iEYEARECAAYFAknJVlYACgkQypsm9Ypb0yqlOgCff0ER0ZwrzmG6OixKhaZ5iA+z n70AmwedvrR/Rw7srmRC/zaEfhebbkEX =csOf -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
So, the bottom line is no one has really explored Plan 9 on routers. It seems that /net/iproute is where I can start. It has a complete interface for editing routes. What we need is a user space script that implements routing, like http://www.openbgp.org/ does on OpenBSD. Except that, it will only have to send add, delete and flush control messages to the iproute file. This is not quite as powerful as most routers do. I remember Mauro mentioning that Cisco IOS provides, among other things, a more fine-grained control over passwords and information-hiding to the per-interface level. I wonder how that would be incorporated into Plan 9. Could namespaces come into picture here? @ Devon: About Packet Classification. I read that iptables is not needed on Plan 9 because its mount /net over the network concept achieved anonymity or transparency -- something along those lines. There are no logs about who is sending what, and that is a good thing. I am not sure where exactly the packet classification idea fits in. I read in the /proc documents that /proc/net provides useful information about the network stack. There is this ip_conntrack which is used to list / track network connections. I wonder what we would need to get packet information and perform filtering. Is it desirable to get that filtering to work if it already does not exist? Thank you all for replying so far! -- Rahul Murmuria
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 on Routers?
It seems that /net/iproute is where I can start. It has a complete interface for editing routes. What we need is a user space script that implements routing, like http://www.openbgp.org/ does on OpenBSD. Except that, it will only have to send add, delete and flush control messages to the iproute file. see ipconfig(8). About Packet Classification. I read that iptables is not needed on Plan 9 because its mount /net over the network concept achieved anonymity or transparency -- something along those lines. There are no logs about who is sending what, and that is a good thing. that's not strictly true. as long as you restrict your network to plan 9 machines, it is possible to import /net from a gateway machine and avoid sticky things like packet filtering. there is also ipmux (discussed in ip(3)). i don't think ipmux has enough rewriting (or state) to implement something like nat. - erik
