Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
i was overly emotional, sorry. i also overlooked that the debate is about drawterm, a non-plan9 program. doubly sorry. still, to my taste, to much effort is devoted to things outside the system... however, i am not an MBA, maybe, it is all right. wishing a fantastic day, ++pac
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
i am not an MBA, maybe, it is all right it's always all right not to be an MBA
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
it's always all right not to be an MBA not here ;-)
[9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
Hello, I have a problem with the plan9 installation. I think that I don't get a network connection because it says ns83815: auto neg timed out, the floppy I use is from May 17 2011 but I have made my own PLAN9.INI: # config for initial floppy booting [menu] menuitem=boot, Boot Plan 9 # menuitem=debug, Boot Plan 9 and debug 9load menudefault=boot, 10 [common] # very cautious settings to get started. # will defeat booting from usb devices. *nomp=1 *nobiosload=1 # *noahciload=1 # *debugload=1 *nodumpstack=1 # this would disable ether and usb probing. # *nousbprobe=1 # *noetherprobe=1 distname=plan9 partition=new mouseport=ps2 monitor=xga vgasize=1024x768x16 dmamode=yes nobootprompt=local!/boot/bzroot installurl=http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/download/plan9.iso.bz2 # serial console on COM1 #console=0 ether0=type=83815 ea=00e006010101 [boot] bootargs=local!#S/sdD0/data bootfile=fd0!9pcflop.gz # [debug] # bootargs=local!#S/sdD0/data # bootfile=sdD0!cdboot!9pccd.gz # *debugload=1
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
On 05/18/2011 05:12 AM, Jacob Todd wrote: Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard. The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business for decades, but its message has never been more important and, or useful for many. -- Rob Tannen When simplifying, is's critical to target the right features for excision, based on the customers' actual needs -- Rob Tannen Solve simple problems and leave the hairy, difficult ones for everyone else. Instead of one-upping, try one-downing -- Rob Tannen But, IMHO, we still need a good web-browser for Plan 9 as well. BTW, I hate porting bloatware to clean, compact and efficient Plan 9. -- Balwinder S bdheeman Dheeman (http://werc.homelinux.net/contact/)
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
So any more thoughts on whether or not this would be useful? I have to revise: that I did point to a java sdk and really should have constrained my contents to something like jquery api instead. So- why? (why build a website of drawterm) (I think) I like plan9 as a potential network controller. Not sure if I have the right idea or not. It is 'experimental,' after all. Having a full blown web interface to acme.dump and the things it can do to read and respond to routers of all varieties seems like it could be kind of useful. But I could be misguided, uninformed and tired. And StyxBrowser seems to lack auth code of any kind, and doesn't connect, or make any useful complaints that I can find right now. Oh it connects to the ip/port that it ships with, and is a file browser not a drawterm port, but that was in the docs. Yeah I would much rather run from (from within, or away from) an ajax app anyway. much happyness all, hroyerboat misguided, uninformed and tired. On Wed, May 18, 2011 at 3:15 AM, dorin bumbu bumbudo...@gmail.com wrote: it seems somebody already done a js virtual machine :) http://linux.slashdot.org/story/11/05/17/0242244/Boot-Linux-In-Your-Browser Dorin on the other hand, i think a js virtual machine (mips would be nicer than x86) might be interesting. drawterm has always been a clever hack. it would be nice to have emulated environment that's more portable than 9vx and not tied to 32-bit x86. one would then be able to write applications for non-plan 9 users in plan 9. clearly they will have a browser. not that i'm signing up or anything. :-) - erik -- ⎼⎺⎺├@┼␊├├≤-␍⎼␊▒␍:/⎺└␊/⎼⎺#
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business for decades, but its message has never been more important and, or useful for many. -- Rob Tannen yes!! BTW, I hate porting bloatware to clean, compact and efficient Plan 9. so do i, however, sometimes time (and, in my case, skills) is not sufficient to clean-up the mess that accumulated in the code over years, and different maintainers), sigh... So, instead of trying to port (the language part) of GNU R, I am learning S+/R and rewriting to plain C, just now... BTW, S(+) language originated in Bell Labs, didn't it? However, its clone, R, has grown into monstrous all-capable all-inclusive application, or platform per se. i hate applications. true computing is black. c++ is to c, as lung cancer is to lung ;-) ++pac
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
On 05/18/2011 05:12 AM, Jacob Todd wrote: Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard. The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business for decades, but its message has never been more important and, or useful for many. -- Rob Tannen When simplifying, is's critical to target the right features for excision, based on the customers' actual needs -- Rob Tannen I'm confused. Why are we using business ideas to constrain what we are doing with a research system? It seems to me that what we work on (outside what puts food on the table) should be driven primarily by what we find intellectually stimulating. I personally get no stimulation over the idea of porting an existing web browser. However, the idea of an emulator in a highly portable environment was interesting enough that I looked around some and found a PDP-11 emulator running 6th Edition (also in js). I couldn't help but think about extending Bellard's work to include a drawable device and a network interface and then building a Plan 9 terminal for it, or running native Inferno on it, or using the same ideas to build a Dis VM in js, or... It's true that utility can be a meaningful motivator for what questions we look at, but if all you care about is utility, it's hard to beat an android tablet. Like most of us, I worry about what customers want in my day job. But what customers want is boring to the point of suicide. To borrow from the bard; There is more in the computing universe than is dreamt of in the PC/Web philosophy. Plan 9 and Inferno are the best places I've found to glimpse that hidden beauty. BLS
[9fans] Oh shell
I saw this at hacker news. It's a shell written in go. Seems nice. https://github.com/michaelmacinnis/oh https://github.com/michaelmacinnis/ohCheers! Rodrigo Miranda ``The zen master hit me in the head. I told him: If you keep hitting me in the head, I won't be able to learn a thing! He hit me again. In the head.´´ (Rodrigo Miranda)
Re: [9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
On Wed May 18 04:06:40 EDT 2011, g...@ghstwlf.com wrote: Hello, I have a problem with the plan9 installation. I think that I don't get a network connection because it says ns83815: auto neg timed out, the floppy I use is from May 17 2011 but I have made my own PLAN9.INI: i don't have the datasheet in front of me, but the two most obvious causes are a difficult link partner or perhaps your chip doesn't like being poked immediately after starting an sequence. you might try moving the delay(1) before the register probe. - erik
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
Sent from my iPhone On May 18, 2011, at 5:24 AM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote: On 05/18/2011 05:12 AM, Jacob Todd wrote: Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard. The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business for decades, but its message has never been more important and, or useful for many. -- Rob Tannen When simplifying, is's critical to target the right features for excision, based on the customers' actual needs -- Rob Tannen I'm confused. Why are we using business ideas to constrain what we are doing with a research system? It seems to me that what we work on (outside what puts food on the table) should be driven primarily by what we find intellectually stimulating. I personally get no stimulation over the idea of porting an existing web browser. However, the idea of an emulator in a highly portable environment was interesting enough that I looked around some and found a PDP-11 emulator running 6th Edition (also in js). I couldn't help but think about extending Bellard's work to include a drawable device and a network interface and then building a Plan 9 terminal for it, or running native Inferno on it, or using the same ideas to build a Dis VM in js, or... It's true that utility can be a meaningful motivator for what questions we look at, but if all you care about is utility, it's hard to beat an android tablet. Like most of us, I worry about what customers want in my day job. But what customers want is boring to the point of suicide. To borrow from the bard; There is more in the computing universe than is dreamt of in the PC/Web philosophy. Plan 9 and Inferno are the best places I've found to glimpse that hidden beauty. BLS I don't think there's any real constraints. Bottom line is the code is there and it's pretty nice. You can do what you want. If you seek outside approval to chase an idea, you've already failed the most important person in the equation - yourself. Who cares what anyone else thinks? Or as Homer Simpson said, I'm sure Einstein turned himself all kinds of colors before he invented the light bulb.
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
On 05/18/2011 05:56 PM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote: On 05/18/2011 05:12 AM, Jacob Todd wrote: Writing/porting web stuff to plan 9 will be hard. Writing something that accesses plan 9 from the web will be less hard. The KISS (Keep It Simple, Stupid) acronym has been popular in business for decades, but its message has never been more important and, or useful for many. -- Rob Tannen When simplifying, is's critical to target the right features for excision, based on the customers' actual needs -- Rob Tannen I'm confused. Why are we using business ideas to constrain what we are doing with a research system? It seems to me that what we work on (outside what puts food on the table) should be driven primarily by what we find intellectually stimulating. I personally get no stimulation over the idea of porting an existing web browser. However, the idea of an emulator in a highly portable environment was interesting enough that I looked around some and found a PDP-11 emulator running 6th Edition (also in js). I couldn't help but think about extending Bellard's work to include a drawable device and a network interface and then building a Plan 9 terminal for it, or running native Inferno on it, or using the same ideas to build a Dis VM in js, or... It's true that utility can be a meaningful motivator for what questions we look at, but if all you care about is utility, it's hard to beat an android tablet. Like most of us, I worry about what customers want in my day job. But what customers want is boring to the point of suicide. To borrow from the bard; There is more in the computing universe than is dreamt of in the PC/Web philosophy. Plan 9 and Inferno are the best places I've found to glimpse that hidden beauty. How useful a research could be which is not backed by a business idea? Who will fund such projects, why and for how long? OTOH, nobody is going to stop anyone going his/her own way; everyone has a right to beat his/her drum and that too either at any rhythm or no rhythm at all ;) However, the *real* programmers are different and they should/must know well what they are doing and why? -- Balwinder S bdheeman Dheeman (http://werc.homelinux.net/contact/)
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
How useful a research could be which is not backed by a business idea? Who will fund such projects, why and for how long? you mean a research project like unix or plan 9? - erik
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
On May 18, 2011, at 8:24 AM, blstu...@bellsouth.net wrote: ...I'm confused. Why are we using business ideas to constrain what we are doing with a research system? Probably good point. But that said did not Lucent try to market Plan 9 beyond that at some point, or do I have that wrong?
Re: [9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
2011-05-18 14:51, erik quanstrom skrev: On Wed May 18 04:06:40 EDT 2011, g...@ghstwlf.com wrote: Hello, I have a problem with the plan9 installation. I think that I don't get a network connection because it says ns83815: auto neg timed out, the floppy I use is from May 17 2011 but I have made my own PLAN9.INI: i don't have the datasheet in front of me, but the two most obvious causes are a difficult link partner or perhaps your chip doesn't like being poked immediately after starting an sequence. you might try moving the delay(1) before the register probe. - erik Okej, does that mean that I have to recompile the driver? //Pär
Re: [9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
i don't have the datasheet in front of me, but the two most obvious causes are a difficult link partner or perhaps your chip doesn't like being poked immediately after starting an sequence. you might try moving the delay(1) before the register probe. - erik Okej, does that mean that I have to recompile the driver? yes. - erik
Re: [9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
2011-05-18 18:55, erik quanstrom skrev: i don't have the datasheet in front of me, but the two most obvious causes are a difficult link partner or perhaps your chip doesn't like being poked immediately after starting an sequence. you might try moving the delay(1) before the register probe. - erik Okej, does that mean that I have to recompile the driver? yes. - erik *profanity* What documentation do I need to read to learn how to do that? /Pär
Re: [9fans] ns83815: auto neg timed out?
g...@ghstwlf.com wrote: *profanity* What documentation do I need to read to learn how to do that? /Pär The wiki will suffice.
[9fans] 9vx w/ tun/tap on OS X?
has anyone gotten this working? i've got the 3rd-party tun/tap kexts installed (i believe; the devices show up in /dev), but 9vx is unhappy. my config file contains: ether0=type=tap dev=/dev/tap0 9vx complains with: 9vx panic: fd 5 read -1 (when running as superuser, which i believe is needed with the tun/tap on OS X; as a regular user i get: tap: open failed with: 13 ve: tap failed to initialize ) anyone gotten this going on OS X? tips? a PGP.sig Description: This is a digitally signed message part
Re: [9fans] 9vx w/ tun/tap on OS X?
On Wed, 18 May 2011 17:49:56 EDT Anthony Sorace a...@9srv.net wrote: This is an OpenPGP/MIME signed message (RFC 2440 and 3156) --Apple-Mail-4-1030682487 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii has anyone gotten this working? i've got the 3rd-party tun/tap kexts installed (i believe; the devices show up in /dev), but 9vx is unhappy. my config file contains: ether0=type=tap dev=/dev/tap0 9vx complains with: 9vx panic: fd 5 read -1 What is the errno? AFAIK, 1) you must do `ifconfig tap0 up' 2) you must read an entire packet (big enough buffer).
Re: [9fans] crazy idea - drawterm in javascript?
How useful a research could be which is not backed by a business idea? That's kind of the point I was getting at. Asking how research is useful isn't asking the most telling question. Research isn't always about utility; it's about intellectual contribution. Of course, it's great when research results find their way into application, but not having direct application (yet) doesn't devalue the research. Who will fund such projects, why and for how long? Although this seems to have been systematically ignored for the last 30 years or so, I would argue that an enlightened organization will recognize that to be innovative in the future, they must ask the questions no one knows the answers to now. Some fraction of those questions will lead to practical applications and some won't. Whether you are measuring success in competitive advantage or in papers published, that's why an organization will invest in research. One way I've described it before is that if you gather together smart people, give them resources and freedom, you won't know ahead of time what they'll come up with, but you can count on them coming up with something. In some cases, what they come up with is driven by application, like with the transistor. In some cases, the main applications will be discovered later as people study the results. To some extent the LASER falls into that category. And in some cases, the result has little or no practical application, but it becomes part of what defines us and our understanding of ourselves. I'd count the discovery of the cosmic background radiation in that. IMHO we would all be diminished had any of those avenues of research been cut off because they were a cost that didn't have a short-term ROI. OTOH, nobody is going to stop anyone going his/her own way; everyone has a right to beat his/her drum and that too either at any rhythm or no rhythm at all ;) Absolutely, and from where I sit, that's a key part of the 9fans ethos. If someone has a good idea, then they are encouraged to implement it and report on what they learn. The results might get ignored, or they might spark somone else's creativity to take it further. If it's a practical application that sparks the idea, great. If it's pure curiosity, that's great too. BLS
