[9fans] Raspberry PI - SPI screen

[brankush]

What cheap screens do you used with raspberry pi?

Does this PiTFT work?
https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pitft-28-inch-resistive-touchscreen-display-raspberry-pi

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Richard!

I've read the /acme/mail/readme but it just explains how it works not
how to configure it.

Kind Regards,
Mats

On 10/13/14, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp  wrote:
>> okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
>> haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
>> insufficent testing with the mbox format.
>
> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!
>
> Kenji
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] p9p: Virtual terminal fileserver

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

On 12.10.2014 19:47, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:

Hi,

> i'm a little confused by this. could you describe how this will work
> from a user's perspective? do you mean that a user on p9p starts 9term,
> but the /dev/cons is really a /dev/pts/* etc.?

I'd like to run it on a Linux system (eg. via p9p).

It should start an given command (eg. a shell or some other application)
on a virtual terminal and provide access to it via 9P (maybe even use
separate VTs for stdio vs. stderr).

As a counterpart I'd like to have some tool which can attach to these
servers (perhaps even multiple clients to the same session), so I have
a similar feature as a detached screen(1) session.


mit freundlichen Grüßen
--
Enrico Weigelt,
metux IT consulting
+49-151-27565287

[9fans] audio device interface

[Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult]

Hi folks,

could anyone point me to some documentation of the Plan9
audio interface ?

I'm currently thinking about using this as a replacement for
the pulseaudio protocol (i really wanna get rid of the dbus
crap, step by step)


mit freundlichen Grüßen
--
Enrico Weigelt,
metux IT consulting
+49-151-27565287

Re: [9fans] audio device interface

[Sergey Zhilkin]

Hi !

audio(3) - some docs. Look at
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/supported_pc_hardware/index.html for
supported hardware.

And sources of device (in /pc)

2014-10-13 17:40 GMT+04:00 Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult <
enrico.weig...@gr13.net>:

> Hi folks,
>
> could anyone point me to some documentation of the Plan9
> audio interface ?
>
> I'm currently thinking about using this as a replacement for
> the pulseaudio protocol (i really wanna get rid of the dbus
> crap, step by step)
>
>
> mit freundlichen Grüßen
> --
> Enrico Weigelt,
> metux IT consulting
> +49-151-27565287
>
>


-- 
С наилучшими пожеланиями
Жилкин Сергей
With best regards
Zhilkin Sergey

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[p . d . finn]

Hi Mats,

In an Acme window, try running:

Local upas/fs -f /imaps/your.mailserver.dom/username

On a Raspberry Pi, this may take a few seconds to complete with a
large mailbox.  You will know it is finished because the `fs' process
will disappear from the upper left-hand corner of Acme's tag line.
Then (also in an Acme window) run:

Mail

It helps if you already have auth/fgui running to receive your
password (if it isn't already loaded into factotum).

Best regards,
Peter
--- Begin Message ---
Hi Richard!

I've read the /acme/mail/readme but it just explains how it works not
how to configure it.

Kind Regards,
Mats

On 10/13/14, kokam...@hera.eonet.ne.jp  wrote:
>> okay with comparatively little ram. the primary reason that we
>> haven't pushed to replace upas with nupas by default in 9front is
>> insufficent testing with the mbox format.
>
> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!
>
> Kenji
>
>
>
--- End Message ---

Re: [9fans] p9p: Virtual terminal fileserver

Hi,
Mycroftiv wrote hubfs for plan9 
(http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Hubfs/index.html)
It may serve as inspiration :-)

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 03:35:53PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult 
wrote:
> On 12.10.2014 19:47, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> > i'm a little confused by this. could you describe how this will work
> > from a user's perspective? do you mean that a user on p9p starts 9term,
> > but the /dev/cons is really a /dev/pts/* etc.?
> 
> I'd like to run it on a Linux system (eg. via p9p).
> 
> It should start an given command (eg. a shell or some other application)
> on a virtual terminal and provide access to it via 9P (maybe even use
> separate VTs for stdio vs. stderr).
> 
> As a counterpart I'd like to have some tool which can attach to these
> servers (perhaps even multiple clients to the same session), so I have
> a similar feature as a detached screen(1) session.
> 
> 
> mit freundlichen Gren
> --
> Enrico Weigelt,
> metux IT consulting
> +49-151-27565287
> 

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

> I'm using nupas on 9front, which is much superior than upas.
> Thanks eric!

you're welcome, but you should really thank brantley coile for sponsoring
the work.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[erik quanstrom]

On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
> I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the raspberry 
> pi per-se.
> 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.

it's a little worse than this, actually.

since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be read or 
written on
update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be difficult 
 this means
that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need about 
2x the
mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out well for 
large mm
messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.

the solutions to this are straightforward
(1) store one message per file,
(2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
(3) avoid O(n²) startup time due to small hash table sizes and high load factor,
(4) load message data on demand so ram required is MAX(largest mm hunk, 10mb).

i currently have 1000 messages in my inbox, but i have used nupas with 45000 
messages.
some more work is necessary to handle a quarter million messages comfortably, 
as that's
too many for one directory.

nupas is just in /sys/src/cmd/upas on 9atom; the original is no more.

- erik

Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[erik quanstrom]

> Not without substantial development work (I'd bet more than simply putting 
> NAT on Plan 9). Once you get Plan 9's /net on the linux box, nothing's going 
> to know what to do with it. The existing p9p code won't use it directly, nor 
> will iptables know how to send packets there.
> 
> If you want Plan 9 to do NAT, just do that.

i'm not proud of this solution, but i'm using a ubiquity wifi router as my nat. 
 it routes all
external traffic to /net.alt on the main cpu server, and routes outbound 
traffic through a
nat.

i would much prefer a p9 based solution, but i'm also busy and lazy.

- erik

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Eduardo Alvarez]

On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 12:15:31PM -0400, erik quanstrom wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the 
> > raspberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM.
> 
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
> 
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be read or 
> written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be 
> difficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need 
> about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out well 
> for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
> 
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,
> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
> (3) avoid O(n²) startup time due to small hash table sizes and high load 
> factor,
> (4) load message data on demand so ram required is MAX(largest mm hunk, 10mb).

Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for instance? Seems
that it could solve at least some of the problem.

-- 
Eduardo Alvarez

"Stercus, Stercus, Stercus, moriturus sum"
  -- Rincewind The Wizzard


pgpReua3HkHjV.pgp
Description: PGP signature

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Bakul Shah]

On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
> pberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
> .
> 
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
> 
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be rea=
> d or written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be dif=
> ficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need =
> about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out we=
> ll for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
> 
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,

This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.

> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,

This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
*append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
the mbox file and its index.

Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.

Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[cinap_lenrek]

doing plan9 gateway here.

i use a socks and http proxies running on the plan9 gateway machine
to get windows internet connectivity. the plan9 machines just
import the /net.alt ipstack from it.

the advantage is that i can run servers behind my gateway that
listen on the public ip stack (thru socks or 9p import).

the disadvantage is that you need to configure the clients to
use the proxies. but i just have *one* windows box, so not
a problem for me.

--
cinap

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Mats Olsson]

Hi Peter!

That sounds like something I could manage to try out. Thanks a lot!!!

Kind Greetings,
Mats

On 10/13/14, Bakul Shah  wrote:
> On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom 
> wrote:
>> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
>> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the
>> > ras=
>> pberry pi per-se.
>> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in
>> > RAM=
>> .
>>
>> it's a little worse than this, actually.
>>
>> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be
>> rea=
>> d or written on
>> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be
>> dif=
>> ficult  this means
>> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need
>> =
>> about 2x the
>> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out
>> we=
>> ll for large mm
>> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
>>
>> the solutions to this are straightforward
>> (1) store one message per file,
>
> This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.
>
>> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
>
> This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.
>
> One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
> *append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
> but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
> the mbox file and its index.
>
> Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
> given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Raspberry PI - SPI screen

[Skip Tavakkolian]

the composite video works and there are several cheap (in all senses of the
word) LCD displays.

the adafruit device is not supported, but would be interesting for its
form/fit and the touch input.
if you're inclined to do the work, this fork of the 9pi might be a good
start.

https://github.com/elewarr/plan9-bcm


On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 2:07 AM,  wrote:

> What cheap screens do you used with raspberry pi?
>
> Does this PiTFT work?
>
> https://learn.adafruit.com/adafruit-pitft-28-inch-resistive-touchscreen-display-raspberry-pi
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Steffen Nurpmeso]

Bakul Shah  wrote:
 |On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom  \
 |wrote:
 |> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
 |>> I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
 |> pberry pi per-se.
 |>> 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
 |> .
 |> 
 |> it's a little worse than this, actually.

 |> the solutions to this are straightforward
 |> (1) store one message per file,
 |
 |This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.
 |
 |> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,
 |
 |This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

Jamie Zawinski implemented that for Netscape 2.0/3.0 [1] but still
went for MBOX format.  But of course that wasn't designed for
Plan9 and permanent backup storage.  The page says

 Right now I'm looking at a folder in 3.0. It has 15,466 messages
 in it. Selecting this folder takes less than a second (it's hard
 to eyeball it, but I'd say it takes about 1/2 to 3/4 second from
 when I click to when I see the message summary on the screen).
 The BSD mbox file is 57.2MB (1.2 million lines) and the summary
 file is 1.3MB (2% of the size of the folder.)

 This is on a P266 with a local IDE disk (Linux.)

  [1] 

--steffen
--- Begin Message ---
On Mon, 13 Oct 2014 12:15:31 EDT erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Sun Oct 12 14:37:47 EDT 2014, st...@quintile.net wrote:
> > I am fairly sure the problem is to do with RAM size rather than the ras=
> pberry pi per-se.
> > 4000 messages takes up a lot of space - and upas stores messages in RAM=
> .
> 
> it's a little worse than this, actually.
> 
> since upas stores messages in mbox format, the whole file needs to be rea=
> d or written on
> update.  certainly one could optimize the read bit, but that would be dif=
> ficult  this means
> that the the whole mbox gets written to the dump every day, and you need =
> about 2x the
> mailbox size ram for each upas/fs that is run.  this does not work out we=
> ll for large mm
> messages, or small ram boxes like the pi.
> 
> the solutions to this are straightforward
> (1) store one message per file,

This is what MH (an old mail client) does by default.

> (2) cache important data in an index to avoid opening all files,

This is what dovecot (an imap/pop3 server) does.

One other thing such mailservers do is to usually only
*append* to an mbox file. Deleted messages are marked as such
but their space is not reclaimed until you force a rebuild of
the mbox file and its index.

Pure imap clients typically only read last N messages from a
given mailbox.  More may be loaded as you scroll back.

--- End Message ---

Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[brankush]

On 10/13/2014 at 9:25 PM, cinap_len...@felloff.net wrote:
>i use a socks and http proxies running on the plan9 gateway machine
>to get windows internet connectivity. the plan9 machines just
>import the /net.alt ipstack from it.

Uau! So simple!
I'm still thinking if will work for my machines...

>the disadvantage is that you need to configure the clients to
>use the proxies.

Doesn't dhcp server supply proxy information too?
Otherwise, I don't know what to do with the Androids.

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Anthony Sorace]

On Oct 13, 2014, at 12:46 , Eduardo Alvarez  wrote:

> Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for instance? 
> Seems
> that it could solve at least some of the problem.

nupas uses a maildir-like format. It helps tremendously.

Really: if you're doing mail on Plan 9, you want to be running nupas.



signature.asc
Description: Message signed with OpenPGP using GPGMail

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
asleep for the past decade."

On 14 October 2014 12:55, Anthony Sorace  wrote:

> On Oct 13, 2014, at 12:46 , Eduardo Alvarez 
> wrote:
>
> > Have you considered other mailbox formats, such as maildir, for
> instance? Seems
> > that it could solve at least some of the problem.
>
> nupas uses a maildir-like format. It helps tremendously.
>
> Really: if you're doing mail on Plan 9, you want to be running nupas.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Kurt H Maier]

Quoting Winston Kodogo :


Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed with
Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has an
achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
asleep for the past decade."



patches welcome

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/

Sorry, not a patch as such.


On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier  wrote:

> Quoting Winston Kodogo :
>
>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>> with
>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has
>> an
>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>> asleep for the past decade."
>>
>
>
> patches welcome
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] p9p: Virtual terminal fileserver

[Bruce Ellis]

To be honest I've wondered about this for a while.

Here's my quandry...

I use Vmware for Ubuntu 14 LTS.

First I start a dumbarse terminal and do:

factotum&
plumber&
sam&9term&

This gives me something I can work with.

But when I run venti, then fossil - I get no fossilcons in $ns. Fossil
works fine but you can't really keep it together without the console.

Now I digress. But I don't really.

If I try and run another 9term (as you would) you get "out of ptys".
Clearly my fscons is a failed pty.

That is my experience.

brucee
 On 14/10/2014 1:54 AM, "User &"  wrote:

> Hi,
> Mycroftiv wrote hubfs for plan9 (
> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/Hubfs/index.html)
> It may serve as inspiration :-)
>
> On Mon, Oct 13, 2014 at 03:35:53PM +0200, Enrico Weigelt, metux IT consult
> wrote:
> > On 12.10.2014 19:47, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:
> >
> > Hi,
> >
> > > i'm a little confused by this. could you describe how this will work
> > > from a user's perspective? do you mean that a user on p9p starts 9term,
> > > but the /dev/cons is really a /dev/pts/* etc.?
> >
> > I'd like to run it on a Linux system (eg. via p9p).
> >
> > It should start an given command (eg. a shell or some other application)
> > on a virtual terminal and provide access to it via 9P (maybe even use
> > separate VTs for stdio vs. stderr).
> >
> > As a counterpart I'd like to have some tool which can attach to these
> > servers (perhaps even multiple clients to the same session), so I have
> > a similar feature as a detached screen(1) session.
> >
> >
> > mit freundlichen Gren
> > --
> > Enrico Weigelt,
> > metux IT consulting
> > +49-151-27565287
> >
>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Skip Tavakkolian]

iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo"  wrote:

> https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>
> Sorry, not a patch as such.
>
>
> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
>
>> Quoting Winston Kodogo :
>>
>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
>>> with
>>> Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It has
>>> an
>>> achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
>>> asleep for the past decade."
>>>
>>
>>
>> patches welcome
>>
>>
>>
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Setting up Mail in Acme on the Raspberry Pi.

[Winston Kodogo]

i9factotum? It's a go!

On 14 October 2014 16:08, Skip Tavakkolian 
wrote:

> iCloud! Yes! Let's do that! It might even be secure on Plan 9 :)
> On Oct 13, 2014 8:01 PM, "Winston Kodogo"  wrote:
>
>> https://www.apple.com/nz/support/icloud/mail-notes/
>>
>> Sorry, not a patch as such.
>>
>>
>> On 14 October 2014 15:51, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
>>
>>> Quoting Winston Kodogo :
>>>
>>>  Much as I love Plan9, only a masochist would use it for email.I agreed
 with
 Carmack as recently as 1997: "I spent a few months running Plan9. It
 has an
 achingly elegent internal structure, but a user interface that has been
 asleep for the past decade."

>>>
>>>
>>> patches welcome
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>

Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[lucio]

> i use a socks and http proxies running on the plan9 gateway machine
> to get windows internet connectivity. the plan9 machines just
> import the /net.alt ipstack from it.

I'm not aware that such tools are in the standard distribution (I have
plans to install both 9atom and 9front, but not immediately), could
you give us a pointer or two here?

Also, slightly off topic, I have discovered that NetBSD has a
"mount_9p", but it is not obvious how it is meant to be used (I get a
"Rattach not received, got 107) response, but the documentation is
quite economical regarding authentication).  Does anyone have some
more details on the implementation and deployment?

Lucio.


-
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Re: [9fans] DNS/DHCP/AUTH with Raspberry Pi?

[cinap_lenrek]

there you go:

http://plan9front.googlecode.com/hg/sys/src/cmd/ip/hproxy.c
http://plan9front.googlecode.com/hg/sys/src/cmd/ip/socksd.c

--
cinap