Re: [9fans] Plan 9 from User Space still mantained?

[David Arnold]

You might try the developers mailing list plan9port-...@googlegroups.com as well



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> On 20 Jun 2024, at 22:53, Roderick  wrote:
> 
> Dear Sirs!
> 
> I hope, I can also ask here about Plan9 port ...
> 
> I just compiled master from on FreeBSD14.0:
> https://9fans.github.io/plan9port/
> 
> Is this actual? I got some warnings, bellow the messages.
> 
> I have another question, and ask first to forgive me for it ...
> 
> You know, one trusts nvi and emacs because they are so old,
> because there are so much people using it. I am sure one
> can trust acme and sam on plan9. But what about sam on
> FreeBSD from the port? Is it reliable or should I consider it
> experimental? Could it spoil a big file?
> 
> Thanks
> Rodrigo
> 
> 
> 
> -
> 
> #uname -a
> FreeBSD fbsd.local 14.0-RELEASE-p6 FreeBSD 14.0-RELEASE-p6 #0:
> Tue Mar 26 20:26:20 UTC 2024
> r...@amd64-builder.daemonology.net:
> /usr/obj/usr/src/amd64.amd64/sys/GENERIC amd64
> 
> # ./INSTALL
> + Mailing list: https://groups.google.com/group/plan9port-dev
> + Issue tracker: https://github.com/9fans/plan9port/issues/
> + Submitting changes: https://github.com/9fans/plan9port/pulls
> 
> * Resetting /usr/opt/plan9/config
> * Running on FreeBSD, adjusting linker flags
> * Compiler version:
>FreeBSD clang version 16.0.6
> (https://github.com/llvm/llvm-project.git
> llvmorg-16.0.6-0-g7cbf1a259152)
> * Building mk...
 pwd
 pwd
 pwd
 pwd
> * Building everything (be patient)...
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/lib9p; mk all
> 9c -pthread req.c
> req.c:63:2: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> req.c:61:1: note: previous statement is here
> req.c:75:2: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> req.c:72:1: note: previous statement is here
> req.c:109:2: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> req.c:107:1: note: previous statement is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/lib9p; mk all
> 9c -pthread srv.c
> srv.c:104:2: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> srv.c:98:1: note: previous statement is here
> srv.c:804:2: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> srv.c:801:1: note: previous statement is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/libmemlayer; mk all
> 9c -pthread draw.c
> draw.c:68:3: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> draw.c:67:1: note: previous statement is here
> draw.c:79:3: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part of
> the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> draw.c:78:1: note: previous statement is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/libsunrpc; mk all
> 9c -pthread server.c
> server.c:95:3: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part
> of the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> server.c:94:1: note: previous statement is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/cmd/fossil; mk all
> 9c -pthread check.c
> check.c:298:4: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part
> of the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> check.c:296:1: note: previous statement is here
> check.c:604:3: warning: misleading indentation; statement is not part
> of the previous 'if' [-Wmisleading-indentation]
> check.c:602:1: note: previous statement is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/cmd/rio; mk all
> 9c -pthread -I/usr/local/include -DDEBUG -DSHAPE -DDEBUG_EV -DDEBUG client.c
> client.c:16:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> client.c:39:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> client.c:61:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> client.c:121:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> client.c:139:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> client.c:181:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/cmd/rio; mk all
> 9c -pthread -I/usr/local/include -DDEBUG -DSHAPE -DDEBUG_EV -DDEBUG error.c
> error.c:14:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> error.c:23:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> error.c:51:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> error.c:86:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
 cd /usr/opt/plan9/src/cmd/rio; mk all
> 9c -pthread -I/usr/local/include -DDEBUG -DSHAPE -DDEBUG_EV -DDEBUG event.c
> event.c:15:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:115:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:186:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:233:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:259:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:265:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:287:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:311:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:354:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:381:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:436:1: note: conflicting prototype is here
> event.c:473:1: note: conflicting

Re: [9fans] troll paper

[David Arnold]

> The vetting process needs some work, lads.

More heresy than trolling, perhaps?

It was thought-provoking for me.  I wished I was there for the bar session 
afterwards. 




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[9fans] P9F meetings (was: Re: Charting the Future: Envisioning Plan 9 Release 5 for the 9fans Community)

[David Arnold]

> On 26 Jan 2024, at 07:38, o...@eigenstate.org wrote:

<…>

> If you have specific ways we can support people like you
> taking up the torch and carrying plan 9 development forward,
> please speak up and let us know; I'll ensure that it gets
> discussed at the next P9F meeting.

Is there any record of P9F meetings? Agendas or minutes?  Even recordings or 
transcripts?

>From my (admittedly very peripheral) position, the activities of the 
>Foundation are almost completely opaque. It’d be great to see some more of its 
>activity. 




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Re: [9fans] ARM hardware and SATA

[David Arnold]

> On 12 Dec 2019, at 17:32, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> 
> I'd like suggestions for some hardware on which to run Plan 9, almost
> certainly expandable SSD capacity will be a must (Venti service).
> Price and quality will be the biggest factors, as always.
> 
> Ideally, storage is where the value will reside, the actual processor
> could be expendable.
> 
> ARM would allow me to start with Richard Miller's release, which I
> believe to be a very sound foundation.
> 
> Thanks for any and all comments.

A friend pointed me at this today.

If the SSD speed doesn’t need PCIe, this might make for a cheap option?

https://wiki.radxa.com/Dual_Quad_SATA_HAT




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Re: [9fans] ARM hardware and SATA

[David Arnold]

> On 12 Dec 2019, at 17:31, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> 
> I'd like suggestions for some hardware on which to run Plan 9, almost
> certainly expandable SSD capacity will be a must (Venti service).
> Price and quality will be the biggest factors, as always.
> 
> Ideally, storage is where the value will reside, the actual processor
> could be expendable.
> 
> ARM would allow me to start with Richard Miller's release, which I
> believe to be a very sound foundation.
> 
> Thanks for any and all comments.

This is very likely overkill, but

   https://www.96boards.org/product/developerbox/ 

   
https://www.chip1stop.com/USA/en/product/detail?partId=SOCI-003&mpn=SC0FQAA-B-000
 


It’s a µATX PC-style motherboard, with what looks like standard PC power 
connector.
It has a 24-core ARM8 CPU, up to 64GB RAM (4 DIMM slots), onboard 1 Gbps 
Ethernet, looks like two on-board SATA ports, and (most usefully) 1 PCIe x16 
and 2 PCIe x1 slots.

You could populate the x16 PCIe slot with an M.2 carrier board, like

   https://amfeltec.com/pci-express-gen-3-carrier-board-for-m-2-ssd 


to give you a decent amount of high-speed SSD storage?

The motherboard appears to have been sponsored by Linaro, which is some sort of 
Linux-on-ARM booster organisation, so it’s likely got decent documentation 
and/or sample drivers available.



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Re: [9fans] Someone made a Wayland compositor based on Rio, Wio

[David Arnold]

It seems like it runs another Wayland compositor (Cage) in its windows, so the 
ability to nest compositors is there but I saw no mention of nesting itself. 

No fs yet either although it’s mentioned as a todo. 



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> On 2 May 2019, at 14:36, Skip Tavakkolian  wrote:
> 
> Can Wio run inside Wio? Broadly speaking, that's the essence of Rio.
> 
>> On Wed, May 1, 2019, 9:13 PM Ryan Gonzalez  wrote:
>> https://wio-project.org/
>> 
>> 2/10 name, 9/10 demo, can't win it all I guess ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Re: [9fans] PDP11

[David Arnold]

> On 9 Oct 2018, at 14:08, Digby R.S. Tarvin  wrote:

<…>

> So I don't think it i would be worth a substantial rewrite to get it going. 
> It is a shame that there don't seem to have been any more powerful machines 
> with a comparably elegant architecture and attractive front panel :)
> 
> An attractive front panel for nearly any machine is just a soldering iron, 
> LEDs and some logic chips away. As far as elegant architectures, some are 
> very nice: MIPS is kind of retro but elegant, RISC-V is nice, 680x0 machines 
> can be had a reasonable prices, and POWER is kind of cool. I know I 
> shouldn't, but I have a soft spot for ARM.
> 
> I have thought about it, but there are a couple of problems (in addition to 
> my lack artistic talent when it comes to building physically attractive 
> enclosures)..  One is the sheer number of LEDs required to display all of the 
> address and data lines in a modern architecture.  Mainly an issue if I want 
> to use the old PDP11/70 front panel that I had saved for the purpose, I 
> suppose. The other problem is getting access to the all of the machine state 
> that was displayable on a mini computer console. Virtual addresses, 
> User/Kernel mode, register contents etc are all hard to get at. I have toyed 
> with using JTAG etc, but there always seems to be something that I can't get 
> to. So it is hard to do more than resort to a software controlled front 
> panel. I used to have a little box of LEDs and switches that I plugged into 
> the parallel port on PCs, and had my BSDi kernel modified to update it as 
> part of the clock interrupt. But now the parallel ports are becoming rare and 
> you can't update LEDs connected via USB in a single instruction... :-/

Probably not quite what you’re after, but the PiDP8 and PiDP11 kits will get 
you an (arguably) attractive front panel without requiring artistic talent.

   http://obsolescence.wixsite.com/obsolescence/pidp-11

I’ve not looked into how the front-panel is driven (from SIMH, I guess?), but 
perhaps it could be suitably massaged?



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Re: [9fans] Plan 9 5th Edition

[David Arnold]

On 17 Nov 2016, at 12:18, Kurt H Maier wrote:
> On Wed, Nov 16, 2016 at 07:55:38PM -0500, Charlie Lin wrote:

>> Also does anyone want to host the source tree in a repository?
>
> This sounds like a lot of work.  Who would undertake this??

GitHub, GitLab, or BitBucket all provide gratis repository hosting for Git 
and/or Mercurial.  If one of those were adopted, the work involved for ongoing 
maintenance is minimal.




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Re: [9fans] Ideas from Plan-9

[David Arnold]

http://newftp.9atom.org/other/+usbinstamd64.bz2 resolves (www vs. newftp).



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On 24/12/2013, at 9:44 AM, Blake McBride wrote:

> I am having trouble with that link.  Is it correct?
> 
> Thanks.
> 
> Blake
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, Dec 23, 2013 at 5:11 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Thu Dec 19 20:54:04 EST 2013, conor.willi...@gmail.com wrote:
> 
> > ack, thanks...
> >
> >
> > On Fri, Dec 20, 2013 at 1:44 AM, erik quanstrom 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > > here you go... effectless...
> > > >
> > > > apologies from "Windows Movie Maker"
> > > >
> > > > ... also on google+
> > >
> > > problem diagnosed.  "mwait required".  perhaps i got a bit exuberant
> > > requiring mwait support.  i'll take a look at this but this evening i'm
> > > taking a look at a few bits with the 40gbe driver.
> 
> please try the test image @ http://www.9atom.org/other/+usbinstamd64.bz2
> this should fix this issue, and update everything to current.  sorry for the 
> long
> delay.
> 
> - erik
> 
> 



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Re: [9fans] Ideas from Plan-9

[David Arnold]

On 24/10/2013, at 5:57 PM, Keith wrote:

> Who here remembers/knows of the vision for the apple newton? The iPad 
> realized it when the technology was able and the time was right. Who is to 
> say the same couldn't be said for 9?

I suspect that Plan9ers will be as disappointed as Newtonians at the debased 
concepts embodied in their "successful" offspring.



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Re: [9fans] big endian plan 9 machine?

[David Arnold]

On 13/01/2013, at 2:21 PM, John Floren wrote:

> On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
 Blue Gene
>>> 
>>> hard to fit in the basement.
>> 
>> How about an ipengine (mpc823)?  I've got one gathering dust here.
> 
> I caution against working on any hardware which can no longer be
> purchased new (sparc32, alpha), it's just pouring time/money down a
> hole. Sparc64 appears to still be available, although only as
> expensive server hardware?

Cavium Octeon?  MIPS64, actively available, but probably not that cheap.
Likely get a PPC64 board cheaper.



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Re: [9fans] sleep(2) historical question

[David Arnold]

On 28/11/2012, at 1:58 PM, Bakul Shah wrote:

> Why not add nsleep() with sleeptime in nanosecond units?  And
> of course, any necessary kernel changes for better accuracy.

Is POSIX' nanosleep() or old-POSIX/BSD/XOpen's usleep() out of the question?




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Re: [9fans] C beautifier

[David Arnold]

On Sun Sep 18 14:10:06 EDT 2011, n...@lsub.org wrote:

> anyone is using a C beautifier in Plan 9?
> I mean, other than gnu indent, which I tried and does not
> work quite right for me.

uncrustify is fairly flexible, but takes some work up front to describe your 
desired output style.

http://uncrustify.sourceforge.net/



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Re: [9fans] more little hardware

[David Arnold]

On 16/03/2010, at 5:02 PM, Patrick Kelly wrote:

> Any thought as to using the OpenMoko as a phone platform?

Unfortunately, I don't think either the Neo1973 or the FreeRunner are useful as 
a daily-use phone due to various hardware bugs or limitations.




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Re: [9fans] linux stats in last year from linuxcon

[David Arnold]

On 22/09/2009, at 4:47 PM, Jack Norton wrote:

In the end I don't care what the linux devs do, but they need to  
come up with a game plan and either fork (server, desktop linux) or  
include it all and try and make everyone happy (the latter will end  
in chaos me thinks).


There are several Linux distributions aimed at digital audio  
workstation usage.  They come with an appropriate kernel configuration/ 
patchset (and audio daemons).


The notion that Linux should fork ignores the reality that most  
distributions have different kernel configurations and source  
already.  The OpenMoko or Android kernel is quite different to that  
running on an SGI Altix (and that's ignoring stuff like uClinux, RT- 
Linux, etc).




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Re: [9fans] Android / G1

[David Arnold]

On 16/02/2009, at 2:26 PM, Skip Tavakkolian wrote:


do mobile carriers allow (in a legal sense) unblessed device/OS on
their networks?


In the Linux-based phones that I'm familiar with, the GSM protocol is  
implemented as a separate module.  It uses a serial interface (and an  
extended AT command set) to communicate with the application  
processor.  This 'baseband' module has its own firmware, and the  
source code for that is typically not available except under NDA and  
license.  Bluetooth and WiFi modules are similar.


This neatly avoids the issue of unblessed devices: the module  
manufacturer does the certification against the standard, and the  
serial command set doesn't allow applications to override anything  
that could cause bad interactions with the network.





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Re: [9fans] A new language for Plan 9

[David Arnold]

On 02/05/2008, at 8:34 AM, Chad Dougherty wrote:


Robert William Fuller wrote:
I don't use Python for this very reason.  This is probably why  
Ruby exists.  I will not use your language for the same reason.   
By adopting such draconian white space rules you automatically  
alienate a large number of programmers.


A blind programmer once told me that Python's whitespace block  
structure was simply too high of a barrier for him to use it.


straying off-topic, but ...

the Python distribution includes a tool called 'pindent'.  it happily  
annotates Python source with block-closing comments and converts  
haphazardly indented source with block-closing comments into  
correctly indented Python source.


   http://svn.python.org/projects/python/trunk/Tools/scripts/pindent.py




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