Re: [9fans] plan 9 and lisp
Not Plan 9, but lately I've been working in Chicken, which is a lovely
pragmatic Scheme for *nix: https://www.call-cc.org/ . Perhaps I should give
s9fes a shot as well!
Nick
On Fri, Jan 20, 2023 at 11:47 AM Bakul Shah wrote:
> Thanks!
>
> Nick Nickolov's k comes with solutions to ~150 AoC-{2015..2022} puzzles.
> All run when you make k! As an example, here is aoc/21/25.k (Game of Sea
> Cucumbers, which Russ vlogged about):
>
> #!../../k
> n:#'1*:\x:".>v"?0:"i/25"
> (l;d;r;u):n/'n!'/:(!n)+/:3(|1 -1*)\!2 /left down right up
> i:0;{i+:1;x:a[r]+x*~a:(1=x)>x l;(2*a d)+x*~a:(2=x)>x u}/,/x;i
>
> [Of course, the real fun is in solving these puzzles but it helps to know
> what others do!]
> Unfortunately no plan9 port as it relies on mmap.
>
> https://codeberg.org/ngn/k
> https://xpqz.github.io/kbook/Introduction.html
> https://github.com/razetime/ngn-k-tutorial
>
> It is also one of the fastest (~0.5 sec to generate and add a billion
> numbers on a Ryzen 2700).
>
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 9:07 AM, Skip Tavakkolian
> wrote:
>
> Regarding Ivy, rsc has some fantastic example code in the form of
> solutions to the Advent of Code 2021 puzzles:
> https://www.youtube.com/@rscgolang/videos
>
> On Thu, Jan 19, 2023 at 7:48 AM Bakul Shah wrote:
>
>
> On Jan 19, 2023, at 7:57 AM, mkf9 wrote:
>
>
> Lassi Kortela wrote:
>
> Chibi-Scheme has run on Plan 9.
>
> and also S9, which Bakul Shah ported to Plan 9,
> https://github.com/bakul/s9fes.
>
>
> Nils M Holm, the author of s9fes, did the original
> port with some help from me. He didn't want to
> maintain plan9 related changes which is why I am
> maintaining it. Nils also has a book on it but
> AFAIK it doesn't cover anything specific to plan9.
>
> Speaking of little languages
> Nils also ported his klong array programming language
> to plan9 & has a book on it! Slightly more verbose
> than k (roughly k3 from kx.com)
>
> Then there is https://github.com/ktye/i which supports
> a dialect of k. Not sure which, probably k6 or k7. And
> there is minimal help in the form of readme.txt but it
> compiles & runs on 9front:
>
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/i
> % git/clone https://github.com/ktye/wg
> % cd i
> % go build '-buildvcs=false'
> % ./k
> ktye/k
> !10
> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
> +\!10
> 0 1 3 6 10 15 21 28 36 45
> d:`a`b`c!(1 2;3 4;5 6)
> d
> `a|1 2
> `b|3 4
> `c|5 6
> +d
> a b c
> -
> 1 3 5
> 2 4 6
> \\
>
> There is of course Rob Pike's ivy.
>
> *9fans * / 9fans / see discussions
> + participants
> + delivery options
> Permalink
>
--
9fans: 9fans
Permalink:
https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/T7b0afbefb53189b6-Mef1c930d3d165e97d956eb29
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[9fans] TabFS
Saw this on hacker news today: https://omar.website/tabfs/ It's for *nix and not Plan 9, but just glancing through the project description it looks like it'll get you to something like webfs from abaco. Didn't I see someone put "mozilla.tar" in their contrib directory a while back? Well, I think that was a joke, but hey, maybe with 9p and VNC one could control a Linux instance of Firefox by directly mounting its TabFS filesystem! -- 9fans: 9fans Permalink: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/Td86a3606588c352f-M4999efe753e53e3d1c8bb146 Delivery options: https://9fans.topicbox.com/groups/9fans/subscription
Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list
The last two comments on this page might be of interest: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7640937 (I found that simply by searching using the 'site' operator on Google: site:news.ycombinator.com maidsafe news.ycombinator.com is a good place to read about a given startup.) On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:44 AM, John Francis Lee jf...@yahoo.com wrote: sorry ... I didn't realize I was replying to the list ... the email I got came from an individual -- This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. John Francis Lee 246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000 Thailand On Wed, 8/13/14, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs 9fans@9fans.net Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2014, 2:37 PM You should amend that This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. with something about shadowy Goggle like computers feltching information on your spending habits... The world changed on us Marty - and without our help, I might add... On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 5:29 PM, John Francis Lee jf...@yahoo.com wrote: The reason things are so insecure is because the US government likes it that way, desinged it that way and does everything it can to keep it that way. They are the beyond a doubt the biggest gang of organized criminals on earth : liars, murderers, spies ... you name it. Thanks for welcoming me to the list ... but I see you use google yourself ... second only to the US government as spies ... soon to surpass, I'm sure. I use yahoo trash mail for the list because I'd like to keep my 'real' email address to myself (when I find one). You deliver all your correspondents's mail to the googleplex along with your own. You have a choice ... but you foreclose your correspondents' ... if they want to correspond with you. Google has it all. -- This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. John Francis Lee 246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000 Thailand On Wed, 8/6/14, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs 9fans@9fans.net Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2014, 10:16 AM And, today especially, that advice applies to everybody: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26281956/record-breaking-data-breach-highlights-widespread-security-flaws On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 5:14 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: 3224522 please change your password for this mailing list. this one is out in public. i hope you aren't reusing passwords.
Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list
Please ignore my last message. It was intended for an entirely different email thread. How embarrassing. (At least the SnR was pretty low to begin with.) On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 1:20 AM, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: The last two comments on this page might be of interest: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=7640937 (I found that simply by searching using the 'site' operator on Google: site:news.ycombinator.com maidsafe news.ycombinator.com is a good place to read about a given startup.) On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 12:44 AM, John Francis Lee jf...@yahoo.com wrote: sorry ... I didn't realize I was replying to the list ... the email I got came from an individual -- This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. John Francis Lee 246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000 Thailand On Wed, 8/13/14, Shane Morris edgecombe...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs 9fans@9fans.net Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2014, 2:37 PM You should amend that This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. with something about shadowy Goggle like computers feltching information on your spending habits... The world changed on us Marty - and without our help, I might add... On Wed, Aug 13, 2014 at 5:29 PM, John Francis Lee jf...@yahoo.com wrote: The reason things are so insecure is because the US government likes it that way, desinged it that way and does everything it can to keep it that way. They are the beyond a doubt the biggest gang of organized criminals on earth : liars, murderers, spies ... you name it. Thanks for welcoming me to the list ... but I see you use google yourself ... second only to the US government as spies ... soon to surpass, I'm sure. I use yahoo trash mail for the list because I'd like to keep my 'real' email address to myself (when I find one). You deliver all your correspondents's mail to the googleplex along with your own. You have a choice ... but you foreclose your correspondents' ... if they want to correspond with you. Google has it all. -- This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient. John Francis Lee 246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000 Thailand On Wed, 8/6/14, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs 9fans@9fans.net Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2014, 10:16 AM And, today especially, that advice applies to everybody: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26281956/record-breaking-data-breach-highlights-widespread-security-flaws On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 5:14 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: 3224522 please change your password for this mailing list. this one is out in public. i hope you aren't reusing passwords.
Re: [9fans] Welcome to the 9fans mailing list
And, today especially, that advice applies to everybody: http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26281956/record-breaking-data-breach-highlights-widespread-security-flaws On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at 5:14 PM, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: You must know your password to change your options (including changing the password, itself) or to unsubscribe. It is: 3224522 please change your password for this mailing list. this one is out in public. i hope you aren't reusing passwords.
Re: [9fans] John Floren, Im trying to make the world better
Plan 9 was (and perhaps always will be?) ahead of it's time. In addition, though, it's really the minimalist aesthetic that has made it far outlast most other academic software. All that intelligent thought really did work to drastically raise the signal to noise ratio of every aspect of the system (e.g., its literate style of code, the high ratio of good ideas to lines of code, and that everything hangs so well together). You'd certainly get a more resonant response if you too were to increase the SnR -- of your messages (perhaps by taking some of Plan 9's minimalism to heart). As of now, you could probably make the analogy that your emails have been to GNU cat as everyone else's are to /sys/src/cmd/cat.c. On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 1:14 PM, mycrof...@sphericalharmony.com wrote: John Floren wrote: But can you cut it out with the fucking nuclear meltdowns all over this list? And fix your email client so it replies to threads properly? No, I am not giving up, and I am going to take this a lot further. In fact, it is very clear to me what the absolute purpose of my life is. I believe my father died too early, that he left unfinished business in his life as a Law Professor. He didn't like what had become of Patent and IP law. He didn't like seeing how it was being abused. And I guarantee that he would NOT like the situation that his son is in vis-a-vis IBM. So I am dedicating my life to this in a public way, and I am going to dedicate every penny of money from my father's inheritance to fighting the patent bs that I see in Plan 9. I am going to use my father's money to try to carry on the work that i believe he wished he would have done had he still lived - trying to make a difference in changing the patent system. If my father was alive and not sick, I think he'd be writing academic papers attacking the kinds of patent BS engaged in by IBM and others. He's not, so I will do what I can - and so I intend to start researching all Plan 9/9P related patents, and then attempting an individual effort to fight them and have them invalidated in court. Maybe nobody wants to use ANTS, but I am sure it has plenty of ideas in it that are about the same as those which get patented by large corporations. I don't any of this stuff patented. Since I've just released ANTS it forms a body of prior art (and is based on projects on sources going back to 2009) so I am going to investigate every patent I can find in this area, and then see if a crazy guy in a basementy can actually mount an effective attack on the Patent-Industrial complex. I really admire you Mr. Floren, your work on 9p streams is one of the best papers done on Plan 9 with practical value. Why don't you see that I am an honest programmer working in an honest way to try to make the world a better place? Everything I do is trying to help the human race survive and for human beings to be happy and care for one another. I love you, and I wish you to be my friend, John Floren. Peace and Love, Ben Kidwell mycroftiv
Re: [9fans] John Floren, Im trying to make the world better
Content aside, the brevity of your message also supports the actual, intended meaning of what I wrote. On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 2:47 PM, Kurt H Maier kh...@intma.in wrote: On Sun, Mar 17, 2013 at 02:25:27PM -0700, Nick LaForge wrote: As of now, you could probably make the analogy that your emails have been to GNU cat as everyone else's are to /sys/src/cmd/cat.c. I choose to interpret this to mean you think millions of people use mycroft's messages every day, and only a select few individuals use everyone else's messages, mostly on OS X. khm
Re: [9fans] Acme: the way the future actually was
Speak of the devil Good artists copy, great artists steal. -Pablo Picasso^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSteven Jobs^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HSamsung Ltd.(?) This message: -some blogger^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^H^HNick LaForge Typos by me. Sent from my meEgo (alphabet button invention included). (Don't) forgive me, Elop. On 9/14/12, Anssi Porttikivi porttik...@gmail.com wrote: Typos by iPhone. Forgive me, Rob. t. Anssi Anssi Porttikivi porttik...@gmail.com kirjoitti 14.9.2012 kello 23.00: Note that Oberon the OS was a stated influence of Ron Pike et. al. Even in Go, type embedding and resistance to class hierarchies relates back to Oberon, the language. Jack Johnson knapj...@gmail.com wrote 14.9.2012 kello 19.48: Even with it's faults (age?), I still miss Oberon. It was *fun* and elegant. -Jack
Re: [9fans] It seems Plan 9 is on Hacker News
Oh yeah, already a comment about the GUI 'sucking'! A bit more fortitude is in order, right? Even if the status quo is to be a WIMP? Regardless, it takes a lazy dilettante to complain in this manner about a research system (an incredibly malleable one, to boot). It also seems that rio's simplicity wasn't sufficient a hint that replacing it might be simple too. On 8/17/12, andrey mirtchovski mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4397390 I like presotto's comment.
Re: [9fans] apparently nice summary of small linux pcs
huh. I guess there was a recent machine with sata and GbE and a decent cpu/ram (tegra 2/1GB). $200. I'm still a little hesitant about Nvidia, but to avoid further damaging relations with processor designers I'll defer to Torvalds' statement on the matter from Thursday in Finland. -Nick Sent from my N900 (RIP linux Nokia phones) On 6/17/12, arn...@skeeve.com arn...@skeeve.com wrote: http://raymii.org/cms/p_Small_Linux_PCs_overview Arnold
Re: [9fans] Mini PCs
sadly, the 10/100 ethernet is provided through a flakey usb hub I think the 'cheap arm dev board' bandwagon will always suffer in this regard, since the phones these SoCs were designed for don't even come close to needing gbe On 6/11/12, Tharaneedharan Vilwanathan vdhar...@gmail.com wrote: what about teg2 for which geoff announced support recently? btw, i have two raspberry pi at home now. i would like to run plan9 and inferno (at least emu) on it as soon as possible. dharani On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:07 PM, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Winston Weinert winst...@lavabit.com wrote: On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 18:19 -0400, Comeau At9Fans wrote: * Raspberry Pi * Cotton Candy * Mele A1000 * MK802 Some other _pricier_ products to consider (and a larger variety of integrated components): * Beagleboard * Beaglebone * Pandaboard * Pico-ITX formfactor x86 motherboard Some of these should work already; /sys/src/9/omap/beagle seems to indicate that you can already boot a beagleboard, for instance. As for anything not based on the supported SoCs, well, until people stop sitting on ass saying boy that would be a nice terminal and actually start PORTING the damn thing, it'll never be more than Yet Another 120-message 9fans Thread. I got the Efika Smarttop through quite a bit of the early boot over the course of an afternoon, before finally getting pissed off at having to re-write an SD card every time I iterated the kernel. It shouldn't be *too* hard to get a minimally functional system, the code in /sys/src/9 is quite good. Oh, there's another thing, for the love of god don't buy a system that can't netboot, it's just not worth it. Or we could ignore all these and, in grand 9fans tradition, start talking about a port to some hardware platform that's been dead for over 5 years. SPARC64 et al are sorta played out by now, but I've got a PDP-11 just sitting around... john
Re: [9fans] Mini PCs
Sure. But the Sheevaplug (same SoC) is now 3 years old, and it looks like the whole 'plug-computer' thing never took off. Since phones seem to be the only consistent market for fast Arm SoCs, we're likely to see one with usb3 before gbe. But I'll shut up now in deference to somebody with actual experience. On 6/11/12, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: sadly, the 10/100 ethernet is provided through a flakey usb hub I think the 'cheap arm dev board' bandwagon will always suffer in this regard, since the phones these SoCs were designed for don't even come close to needing gbe Guruplug?
[9fans] bind on windows?
On Windows, I often want to plop a single file into some admin-owned directory. E.g., I have +rx perms but not write, and some admin-installed program insists on writing to or reading/executing a plugin of mine in its own u-w directory. Has anybody used something like bind on Windows? I found this, but it looks like overkill: http://dokan.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/dokan/readme.txt
Re: [9fans] bind on windows?
(should have said o-w and not u-w) On 4/1/12, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: On Windows, I often want to plop a single file into some admin-owned directory. E.g., I have +rx perms but not write, and some admin-installed program insists on writing to or reading/executing a plugin of mine in its own u-w directory. Has anybody used something like bind on Windows? I found this, but it looks like overkill: http://dokan.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/dokan/readme.txt
Re: [9fans] bind on windows?
Thanks; it's for my own convenience and not for others, so certificates aren't an issue. On 4/1/12, Aram Hăvărneanu ara...@mgk.ro wrote: When I was writing Windows file systems for living, I played with the Dokan library. Played is a very good word, it's a toy, at best. And maybe even that's an overstatement. Implementing bind in a file system filter is easy, as far as writing Windows filesystems goes, but unfortunately to be able to hand it to people you need to pay around $400 to some certificate authority to sign your kernel mode driver, else Windows won't load it. If you're the only user you can add yourself as a certificate authority, and you can use your own work for free.
Re: [9fans] Config File parsing
Are you certain you want to use Lex? If no, you may like this fascinating and instructive lecture by Rob Pike, which solves a lexing problem using Golang: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HxaD_trXwRE If you have The Unix Programming Environment handy, you will also find a lucid tutorial of Lex and Yacc both (in the later chapters). Nick On 2/27/12, arn...@skeeve.com arn...@skeeve.com wrote: O'Reilly's lex yacc is somewhat more user-friendly a reference than the dragon book, although the latter certainly has its value. :-) Arnold
Re: [9fans] Sad News
It is so sad that the people most responsible for the key software technologies are almost unheard of by the general public, and most credit seems to be given to people that jump on the bandwagon much later.. If there was a Nobel prize for software, dmr would have been one of the top on my list. The public's traditional fascination with physics makes an interesting comparison, considering the relative obscurity computer science enjoys. Physics' gifts include nuclear fission, medical imaging, aerospace, semiconducting... the list is enumerable. Yet the greatest celebrity among physicists undoubtedly is Albert Einstein, who's contributions are most significant theoretically (aerospace aside). So it seems fitting that a similarly theoretical and precise discipline like computer science should enjoy comparable status (in opposition to the actual situation where Gates and Jobs get the glory). Ironically, the real reason for mathematics omission by Nobel likely was that Alfred Nobel thought it TOO theoretical a discipline (see http://mathforum.org/social/articles/ross.html). Regardless, it took people like dmr (and Turing, Church, Shannon, Neumann, Dijkstra, Backus, Forsythe, Floyd, Hoare, Knuth, ...) to map abstract mathematical science onto workable machines. Maybe such a collaborative science doesn't permit hero worship? Dmr's own publicly visible accomplishments alone make him worthy of it, yet his humility was so apparent (I'm not a person who particularly had heros when growing up). Perhaps his behind-the-scenes impact among his colleagues at Bell Labs eclipse even what everyone else can see. But it's still sad that among those acquainted with Einstein and his contributions, less than 1% seem to even know who Turing was. Nick
Re: [9fans] tcl, 9p
wut http://movie.subtitlr.com/subtitle/show/94536#line121
Re: [9fans] inferno on android on slashdot
Hey Erik, I thought you'd said you didn't read Slashdot! On 9/17/11, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote: hot grits! - erik
Re: [9fans] Plan 9 is dead
O rinnovarsi o perire http://books.google.com/books?id=n_p0TmPHIJwCpg=PA166q=O%20rinnovarsi%20o%20perire Anyway, I guess you're pissed that you have to use Hg and install Python? Sorry, but Plan 9 can't reinvent the wheel in 2011. Just consider how MIT dropped Scheme for Python in intro courses. Toy language construction no longer precedes practical programming; likewise, who outside 9fans would use a replica replacement? So why write one? Better to focus on what counts as Sussman did with Scheme/SICP which is instead offered to advanced students who better appreciate it (6.945). Plus, it's never been a committee. (Would Plan 9 seem less dead to you if others stopped working on it?) On 9/15/11, Bruce Ellis bruce.el...@gmail.com wrote: just when the bunny was out of the bag ... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YEZbtpdckJA On 16 September 2011 06:17, Bakul Shah ba...@bitblocks.com wrote: On Thu, 15 Sep 2011 12:56:54 PDT David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote: Christoph Lohmann wrote: Hello, now that an academic non-polished Plan 9 remake with idiotic dependencies and the fun OS, which has its only goal to add political jokes, are taking all the pace, I hereby declare, that Plan 9 is MORE ALIVE THAN EVER. Rest In Peace. Sincerely, Christoph Lohmann FTFY Giving a new direction to plan 9 is, in a sense, a death. Death is the gateway to a new beginning. Plan 9 is dead, long live Plan 9. Don't nix Plan9! Nix Plan9! -- Don't meddle in the mouth -- MVS (0416935147, +1-513-3BRUCEE)
Re: [9fans] NIX 64-bit kernel is available
Kudos to the involved researchers for valuing such public involvement. :-) Performance numbers immediately come to mind considering the nature of the work. I know Ron's past talks considered bottleneck analysis, but for those of us not running such large machines it is probably necessary to read the numerical results that indicate what code is/isn't ill-adapted to performance computing. Surely though I'm jumping the gun and need to wait for Ron's talk to tell all. Nick On 9/14/11, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: On Wed, Sep 14, 2011 at 2:32 PM, Bakul Shah ba...@bitblocks.com wrote: On Wed, 14 Sep 2011 13:42:53 PDT John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: We have discussed this. Nixie was a proposed new name, but for now we'd rather get the actual code and distribution right than worry about the name. I like the name Nixie ( Nixie tubes ( Nixie tube watches!)) but isn't Nixie a trademark? Make it really small and it can be Pixie. With readymade mascots. A memorable name is a requirement these days -- you don't want first 10^6 google hits for something else. I don't want to drag out the discussion, but: 1. Nixie is pretty much generic these days. Wikipedia even calls it a genericised trademark. 2. Nixies are also Germanic water spirits. I think we're good :) John
Re: [9fans] Nemo book
Since you're on Ubuntu, why don't you start learning the ropes of the Plan 9 programming environment by compiling/running 9vx on Ubuntu and then hitting the papers? That way you can easily continue to use Mozilla and invest minimal time before being able to actually get something out of Plan 9 (you'll need to write some file servers as well as thoroughly appreciate the concurrency model). You'll find 9vx is also a great utility for more effectively using Linux. Inside 9vx, you should also see 'man 1 abaco' and decide if you really need Mozilla. Nick On 9/14/11, L N leonardne...@gmail.com wrote: I think you have seriously misapprehended many things about Plan 9. What am I misapprehending? We don't have X. We are not Linux compatible, although there's a rather decent Linux emulator. There is no GTK, no Qt, no Firefox, no modern C++ compiler. I don't need X, Linux compatibility, GTK, Qt, Firefox, or C++. I need an OS that runs a browser. I was using startx in the figurative sense. I think it's time for people to stop telling the Plan 9 community what its goals should be, Are my-two-cents worth a negative amount? when these people haven't even booted Plan 9. Why should I boot Plan 9, when I know I can't run a browser, and I already have p9p? John - Leonard
Re: [9fans] files vs. directories
me wonders what ever happened to Hans... Is that really necessary? I'm guessing it was intended as a joke. Back in the 10th grade I spent a few months running a Reiser4 linux root. It was kind of a piece of junk, frequently locking up and giving inconsistent performance. C.f. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second-system_effect Nick
Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely
BCPL makes C look like a very high-level language and provides absolutely no type checking or run-time support. B. Stroustrup, The Design and Evolution of C++, 1994 C++ was designed to be used in a rather traditional compilation and run-time environment, the C programming environment on the UNIX system. Facilities such as exception handling or concurrent programming that require nontrivial loader and run-time support are not included in C++. Consequently, a C++ implementation can be very easily ported. B. Stroustrup, The C++ Programming Language, 1986 Except for the new, delete, typeid, dynamic_cast, and throw operators and the try-block, individual C++ expressions and statements need no run-time support. B. Stroustrup, The C++ Programming Language, 3rd ed., 2000 Nick
Re: [9fans] ARM based terminal?
Dyslexia and confirmation bias. Wikipedia says I have source amnesia. I do remember reading about the thing, but only that. However nice it may be, I can't justify buying yet another N900-parity SBC. Nick On 2/1/11, Ethan Grammatikidis eeke...@fastmail.fm wrote: On 27 Jan 2011, at 8:50 pm, Nick LaForge wrote: I mean 'Pandaboard'. On 1/27/11, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: A9 based SoCs do 1080p, and you can try one out by getting a Pandoraboard. heh, speaking of the pandora[1] has anyone looked at it with an eye to getting plan 9 on it? It's pocket sized with a fair-sized display, 600MHz omap 3530, 256MB ram, wifi, bluetooth, etc. [1]: http://openpandora.org/
Re: [9fans] Modern development language for Plan 9, WAS: Re: RESOLVED: recoving important header file rudely
I hope it won't seem rude to suggest it, but the go-nuts list is the optimum place for your specific concerns. The Go authors read it and are very conscientious in responding to serious questions. The Go authors did express confidence that GC performance could eventually be made competitive, although I couldn't tell you whether that has yet happened. I would nevertheless keep in mind that they are experienced professionals (c.f. Inferno) and that you'd be wrong to malign GC categorically based on your experiences with the proliferation of various toy languages on the net. (I won't mention names.) If you want a modern C++ or some other heavyweight language on Plan 9, I'll point out that there was some talk in August about a LLVM port, though you'll be hard pressed to find many here that desire it above Go. Nick On 2/2/11, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: And russ cox, and everyone else in the CONTRIBUTORS file. On Feb 2, 2011 12:39 AM, Scott Sullivan sc...@ss.org wrote:
Re: [9fans] ARM based terminal?
You might take a look at the Beagle Boards. They're OMAP-based and completely open source hardware. So, if you feel up to it, you can tack on pretty much anything you like. Except high throughput peripherals like video. Cortex A8 based SoCs found in the Gumstix Overo and the Beagleboard only sport a 720p video core. A9 based SoCs do 1080p, and you can try one out by getting a Pandoraboard. I don't really need 1080p though, and we already bought Overos. Nick
Re: [9fans] ARM based terminal?
The Armada 168 does do WUXGA (1920x1200), so don't bother with that TI Pandaboard, especially since TI still thinks it's okay to implement ethernet using the usb bus. It is kind of a bummer that omap based boards like Gumstix don't include GBe, though the feature is admittedly superflous on a SoC targeted for mobile phones. I do like the fact that the omap is pretty much unbrickable. I wonder if Erik has been able to reflash his plug Nick
Re: [9fans] how to make hardware work?
drivers for a few USB audio devices, but that's basically it. If you have neither, you'll have to write the driver yourself. John, You asked about this here: http://9fans.net/archive/2010/10/464 Did you ever settle on a usb audio device yourself? I'll try to get mine to work. Should there even be different usb audio drivers? I thought audio was part of the usb standard. Nick
Re: [9fans] how to make hardware work?
afaik, there is a single usb audio device driver. usb/audio works well, I just plugged in this ($5 plus shipping) http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS and it sounds great. Nick
Re: [9fans] how to make hardware work?
I think recording could work. However, right now reading '#u'/usb/$inputendpoint/data gives wave audio that is encoded at the wrong speed (and frequency) and is truncated. Nick On 1/17/11, Francisco J Ballesteros n...@lsub.org wrote: recording may not work. I dont know if anyone tried. volume should work fine. On Tuesday, January 18, 2011, John Floren j...@jfloren.net wrote: At Mon, 17 Jan 2011 14:35:43 -0500, Nick LaForge wrote: afaik, there is a single usb audio device driver. usb/audio works well, I just plugged in this ($5 plus shipping) http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS and it sounds great. Nick Playback, recording, and volume changing all work? If so, I may just order one tonight. John
Re: [9fans] plan9 compatible notebook
I find my 600e to be very fast with Plan 9. *ducks* On 1/15/11, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: Check the wiki page 'supported hardware.' There's at least one thinkpad on the list.
Re: [9fans] Plan9 from scratch
I'm curious: do you plan on executing the output of 8c and 8l in an environment as strange as one the you are building in? You could try building only programs and then try executing those, i.e., by using one of http://www.chunder.com/plan9/9ee.html http://swtch.com/9vx/ If you just want an x86 kernel, I think it begs the question. The distribution comes with x86 binaries, and rebuilding the whole system is as simple as mk. Anyway, you may be shocked by this if you come from a linux background where complilation is viewed as some sort of sacrificial ritual. Nick On 1/10/11, Artem Novikov noviko...@gmail.com wrote: I want to build Plan9 from scratch under Windows/*NIX. I built working (seems :) toolchain (yacc, 8a, 8c, 8l) under Windows XP using Open Watcom Compiller. Has anyone done something similar?
Re: [9fans] Plan9 development
A honest question: what is the rationale for merging functionality of make and shell into one? Use your imagination Nick
Re: [9fans] Google code-in?
'Summer of code' for high school students? Frankly, looking at its phrasing, it just looks like open-outsourcing on a whole new level. Nick On 11/5/10, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: Code-in? Could you elaborate? On Nov 5, 2010 1:22 PM, EBo e...@sandien.com wrote: Google just announced a code-in. Is Plan9 participating? EBo --
Re: [9fans] Google code-in?
i don't think that's accurate. the tasks need to be small enough and easy enough for a 12-17 year old student to resonably get one done in a week. it would be much easier to just do these tasks oneself than to even write up the task, let alone walk a student through the problem-solving process. Thanks for setting me straight. Nick
Re: [9fans] JTAG
What a great page! (I see that it mentions 'urjtag' near the end, which I'd encountered in trying flash my Altera with an ordinary parallel port. It has lots code for many disparate devices in cvs, including mine, the EP2C8.) Nick On 11/2/10, Bakul Shah bakul+pl...@bitblocks.com wrote: Probably an overkill but this webpage has a lot of useful information on JTAG (it might be worth talking to Mark Whitis and/or checking out some links on the page for the plan9 JTAG effort). http://www.freelabs.com/~whitis/electronics/jtag/
Re: [9fans] Preferred ARM platform?
Beagleboard's ethernet hogs the usb bus! Gumstix has a proper ethernet. Nick On 11/2/10, Jacob Todd jaketodd...@gmail.com wrote: Iirc, at iwp9 geoff said in so many words that the beagleboard was having problems with undocumented..stuff. The video is on livestream.com/iwp9 if you want to watch it.
Re: [9fans] What USB audio device are you using?
I got this: http://www.amazon.com/Syba-SD-CM-UAUD-Adapter-C-Media-Chipset/dp/B001MSS6CS Haven't tried too hard to get 9 to use it, but it's usb and linux has the code too. Audio quality is high, that is until you plug in a mic and line-in and line-out signals get mixed. Btw John, I just got that 'real' 3-button optical logitech-made mouse from IBM you'd mentioned. It beats cleaning the gunk out of your old logitechs (if their buttons even still work). I've also used the Evoluent, but I can't tolerate its vertical column of buttons which don't give you the table's normal force, so you get a cramp. Nick On 10/29/10, John Floren slawmas...@gmail.com wrote: Here's an open question to anyone using USB audio on Plan 9: What device are you using? How well does it work? I'm looking for something I can get on Amazon; my T22 has been silent long enough! John
Re: [9fans] Preferred ARM platform?
As far as I know, there isn't yet a good, inexpensive, well-documented ARM system. pick any two! ;-) Between two evils, choose neither, between two goods, choose both. -- Tryon Edwards A nice quote from a nice book on distributed systems [*] Need I quote another distributed systems expert, Jim Choate? The choice only comes up if you feel the need to build a PC out of a bunch of Plan9s instead of a Plan9 out of a bunch of PCs. Do we really need the thing to do video? Although it would be nice. I punted on this anyway by buying a Startech usb2 vga device. Now all I need is dma with a decent usb pipe, and a port of the linux driver. [*] Garg, V. Elements of Distributed Computing Nick
Re: [9fans] Why not work for a company based on Plan 9?
Sorry. I really need to throw away this mobile phone and NOT accidentally hit send in gmail basic. On 10/25/10, Nick LaForge nicklafo...@gmail.com wrote: On 10/25/10, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: Dave, The way I see this is two reasonable people working a misunderstanding out. There are many contemporary examples of endless mud-slinging with no real concern for solving problems or coming to a reasonable conclusion. Regards, -joe On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 1:38 PM, David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote: Brantley, I apologize for my confrontational attitude. It's totally unnecessary, and I wish that I could take it all back. You certainly didn't deserve it, and the 9fans aren't deserving the noise I've caused by my stupid approach to this thread. Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.comwrote: dave, no problem. i didn't cut and paste the answer, but i'm very sorry that i gave that impression. i'm a pretty easygoing guy, a fact that isn't obvious over an email list. i wasn't irritated by the question at all. the question was a very good one. the reason we can't do remote employees is that one of our objectives is that plan9ers have a positive cultural influence on the entire development group. i feel such an influence requires daily interaction. but we will keep you in mind as we grow. in all my interactions i try to emulate the gentlemanly ways of dennis ritchie. brantley On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:55 AM, David Leimbach wrote: Thank you for answering the question. Let me explain my point of view on the exchange. I worked for a company in Birmingham AL for about 6 years from Seattle. I had Birmingham insurance, Birmingham HR people etc, but I was remote. I thought perhaps it was not clear if one could be a satellite employee for one of those offices or not. I felt that when you basically cut and pasted your response to me, that you were irritated by my question and answering me in a rude way. I was not trying to troll the thread, but now it may appear to be the opposite. I have a lot of respect for what you guys have done with Plan 9 and AOE, and think it's an interesting business, but suddenly I felt that perhaps I wouldn't have a compatible personality with the boss. Anyway, I'd like to reboot the discussion, but it's in the archives now :-). I do wish you, very sincerely, to have continued success with your business. Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: i'm sorry. those who are not in silicon valley or northeast georgia will have to relocate. On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:30 AM, David Leimbach wrote: That's actually not an answer but whatever... I guess I don't actually care. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: the positions are in redwood city, ca and athens, ga. On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:17 AM, David Leimbach wrote: Brantley, I'm asking publicly because I'm betting it's a FAQ. Do you consider remote employees as a possibility, or do you require relocation? Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: hi guys, as most on this list know, coraid makes storage devices that use plan 9 as the software platform. we also use it as our primary development environment. we still run a ken file server here. plan 9 is fundamental to our vision. coraid has become a hot silicon valley property and we are about to start another round of hiring developers. i knew it would be a disservice to this mailing list if i didn't make an announcement here. developers, qa, and support folks can work either in redwood city, ca or athens, ga. there are the usual up and coming silicon valley startup stock options. and in athens, you don't have to pay those silicon valley prices for housing and beer. athens is very affordable on both these counts, especially the beer as anyone who attended the 2009 iwp9 will attest. i hope we're creating a place that i would have wanted to work. it's not every place that you can work with plan 9, get paid for it and participate in a high potential start-up. please send resume's to me. brantley
Re: [9fans] Why not work for a company based on Plan 9?
On 10/25/10, Joseph Stewart joseph.stew...@gmail.com wrote: Dave, The way I see this is two reasonable people working a misunderstanding out. There are many contemporary examples of endless mud-slinging with no real concern for solving problems or coming to a reasonable conclusion. Regards, -joe On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 1:38 PM, David Leimbach leim...@gmail.com wrote: Brantley, I apologize for my confrontational attitude. It's totally unnecessary, and I wish that I could take it all back. You certainly didn't deserve it, and the 9fans aren't deserving the noise I've caused by my stupid approach to this thread. Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 10:25 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.comwrote: dave, no problem. i didn't cut and paste the answer, but i'm very sorry that i gave that impression. i'm a pretty easygoing guy, a fact that isn't obvious over an email list. i wasn't irritated by the question at all. the question was a very good one. the reason we can't do remote employees is that one of our objectives is that plan9ers have a positive cultural influence on the entire development group. i feel such an influence requires daily interaction. but we will keep you in mind as we grow. in all my interactions i try to emulate the gentlemanly ways of dennis ritchie. brantley On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:55 AM, David Leimbach wrote: Thank you for answering the question. Let me explain my point of view on the exchange. I worked for a company in Birmingham AL for about 6 years from Seattle. I had Birmingham insurance, Birmingham HR people etc, but I was remote. I thought perhaps it was not clear if one could be a satellite employee for one of those offices or not. I felt that when you basically cut and pasted your response to me, that you were irritated by my question and answering me in a rude way. I was not trying to troll the thread, but now it may appear to be the opposite. I have a lot of respect for what you guys have done with Plan 9 and AOE, and think it's an interesting business, but suddenly I felt that perhaps I wouldn't have a compatible personality with the boss. Anyway, I'd like to reboot the discussion, but it's in the archives now :-). I do wish you, very sincerely, to have continued success with your business. Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:41 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: i'm sorry. those who are not in silicon valley or northeast georgia will have to relocate. On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:30 AM, David Leimbach wrote: That's actually not an answer but whatever... I guess I don't actually care. On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 8:24 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: the positions are in redwood city, ca and athens, ga. On Oct 25, 2010, at 11:17 AM, David Leimbach wrote: Brantley, I'm asking publicly because I'm betting it's a FAQ. Do you consider remote employees as a possibility, or do you require relocation? Dave On Mon, Oct 25, 2010 at 7:15 AM, Brantley Coile brant...@coraid.com wrote: hi guys, as most on this list know, coraid makes storage devices that use plan 9 as the software platform. we also use it as our primary development environment. we still run a ken file server here. plan 9 is fundamental to our vision. coraid has become a hot silicon valley property and we are about to start another round of hiring developers. i knew it would be a disservice to this mailing list if i didn't make an announcement here. developers, qa, and support folks can work either in redwood city, ca or athens, ga. there are the usual up and coming silicon valley startup stock options. and in athens, you don't have to pay those silicon valley prices for housing and beer. athens is very affordable on both these counts, especially the beer as anyone who attended the 2009 iwp9 will attest. i hope we're creating a place that i would have wanted to work. it's not every place that you can work with plan 9, get paid for it and participate in a high potential start-up. please send resume's to me. brantley
Re: [9fans] So, why Plan 9?
why anyone should care about Plan 9 anyway Because: getting things right the first time around is much more of a practical matter than you may at first realize. Nick
Re: [9fans] LLVM for plan 9?
Is this a trick to get C++ back on Plan9??
Re: [9fans] LLVM for plan 9?
There's tutorials for doing so from O'Caml [http://llvm.org/docs/tutorial/] That looks really neat. I had watched this*: [http://vimeo.com/14313378] weeks back, subsequently flipping through Appel's Modern Compiler Implementation in ML, but ultimately deciding the book to be too boring. This, on the other hand, is pretty inciting. However, I still couldn't bring myself to deal with an additional compiler as long as gcc+valgrind+qemu+vx32 continue to work. I also wouldn't touch LLVM before all the opportunities for synergy between lunix and Plan9 created by Golang are exhausted, and I think there are lots of them. (Is 9Go still unfinished even?) *Not really recommended because it is too long, though it did turn me on to the O'Caml language. Is this a trick to get C++ back on Plan9?? was it ever? (Completely irrelevant to people living in 2010; cfront not guaranteed against causing brain hemorrhages) You can see B. Stroustrup's monitor prominently displaying either 8½ or Rio on the back of The Design and Evolution of C++ (©1994 ATT Bell Labs)... And: /n/sources/extra/c++.2e.tgz
Re: [9fans] LLVM for plan 9?
oops, s/inciting/enticing/ (not quite the same thing... :-p)
Re: [9fans] naming conventions
Would a phonetic morphology à la the ceePlusPlus of wiki would suffice for our lexically challenged friends?
Re: [9fans] license situation and OSI
Really there are just two kinds of licenses: ones that allow relicensing and ones that don't. BSD-licensed software can't be re-licensed but it doesn't matter, since the terms are as liberal as could possibly be, and you can just license your own copyrighted contributions separately. And, attempting to apply your new terms to the original work would be pointless since the original, liberal license is available to all already. The Plan 9 license, like the MIT license, and Apache license, simply is more convenient by allowing re-licensing. Kinda puts MS and EFF in the same camp. You mean FSF?
Re: [9fans] Tvx update
I tried it and it is very fast to boot and run. However, the wrapper did not copy Tvx-root to my home dir. Option 2 links to the package install in /usr/local, but option 1 also links, but to the package loopback mount in /tmp. The only files in my home are in the top directory (the license, etc.). Writing to the symlinks fails. And so does reading utf8 filenames. Choosing 1 gives this error: cp: can't preserve ownership of '/home/tc/Tvx-root/sys/lib/ghostscript' :Operation not permitted and so on for many more files in /sys, /tmp, and /usr. Nick
Re: [9fans] Tvx update
sed '43 s/H/L/' Tvx Why are there TWO ways for cp to follow symlinks? Why are there symlinks it all? (That should do it.) And, still: cd /sys/doc ls | grep 8 8 cd 8 Can't cd 8: '8' file does not exist cd 8½ Can't cd 8½: '8½' file does not exist cd 8? ls 8?.ms 8�.ms touch 9½ ls 9½ 9½ Nick
Re: [9fans] Tvx update
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:58 PM, ron minnich rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
Be careful .. did you set up a persistent /home? I'm not sure what you
have done. There's no substitute at some point for seeing how things
work at tinycore.org.
Not necessary -- once the install script is fixed to actually follow
the symlink it works on tmpfs home too.
cd /sys/doc
ls | grep 8
8
cd 8
Can't cd 8: '8' file does not exist
cd 8½
Can't cd 8½: '8½' file does not exist
cd 8?
ls 8?.ms
8�.ms
touch 9½
ls 9½
9½
That's an interesting problem. I wonder if it is some artifact of the
use of squashfs. The sam and venti directories are fine.
The sam and venti directories don't have any non-ascii utf-8. Also,
from the host:
ls sys/doc/?½.ms
8½.ms
ls sys/doc/??½.ms
9ý.ms (The file I touched from 9vx)
So 9vx is misreading utf-8 from the host, and unsurprisingly, it tacks
extra bits on when writing. This happens on a tmpfs home and on a
persistent ext2 home (I actually didn't test how the HOST interprets
it on ext2 because I got rid of my persistent home.)
sed '43 s/H/L/' Tvx
Sorry, you lost me.
change /usr/local/bin/Tvx:43 to
cp -LRp /usr/local/Tvx-root/* ${P9}
On Wed, May 26, 2010 at 3:53 PM, erik quanstrom quans...@quanstro.net wrote:
perhaps you could track down the source of the cp flags and change them.
The 'p' flag preserves the dates, although the directories that were
separated (/sys/src and /sys/doc) were touched anyway by the
installer.
They're not going away I bet, but what are you talking about here?
No, I want symlinks to go away from the universe. (Bind them in a bag
and drown them in the ocean)
Re: [9fans] Tvx update
you'll get no argument from me on that score. Ok. I'll remove it in the next version. I think he was responding to my hyperbolic statement there. There's no reason not to use symlinks if we can't bind things anyway. Your option 2 just links to the root dir in /usr/local which is just fine provided the permissions are in place and the /usr/local dir is not just a bunch of symlinks to individual files in /tmp/tcloop (actually the case in my tinycore install, not that I care). The only problem with symlinks here wasith your option 1 where cp was making copies of symlinks instead of original files beacuse you used 'cp -HRp' instead of 'cp -LRp'. Nick
Re: [9fans] Tvx update
Amazing. I have no excuse for not using Linux now.
Re: [9fans] Plan ? (was: native install)
I am utterly depressed that this pedestrian crap can so easily get a rise out of several 9fans after all these times.
Re: [9fans] Binary format
Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de wrote: And another important feature of shared libraries is, that when some lib is updated, importing programs dont have to be recompiled. Enrico Weigelt weig...@metux.de wrote: Actually, that's just a matter of clean dependency handling. Include an API/ABI version in the filename, etc. Why create single points of failure? The complexity to justify creating a bureaucracy delegating responsibility of libraries to different people is not there in Plan9. The libraries are for convenience and orthogonality; they are not the definitive API. That is defined by the kernel and by 9P. They really are the black boxes. And shouldn't you be inspecting any new code paths when using new code? Why assume the library writer has tested against YOUR code in all paths, and bump to the new version, risking regression? This to me seems insane for production environments, and is all too common in the open source world where people seem to be writing new code for it's own sake and to everyone's detriment. A nice benefit of taking the simple route early on is that it becomes easier down the road to implement the functionality in one fell swoop, top-down. Maybe in the future the kernel could remove redundant code. 9vx and it's ilk already do something somewhat orthogonal to this by executing code that is shorter after it's been dynamically re-written.
Re: [9fans] Coraid funded
Congratulations on this exciting news! -- A 9fan grateful for the public benefit already generated from Coraid's technology and code.
Re: [9fans] [Announce] CorTeX: the core of TeX
On Sat, Dec 19, 2009 at 7:32 AM, tlaro...@polynum.com wrote: OK. The good news---since I have continued to work a little on this while I have more urgent things to do---is that it is absolutely _simple_ to restart from this (the original web2c)... I don't know if the road of hell is paved with good intentions; but it's clear that the software highways of hells are organised by GPL communities... Good morning, I had read this as 'gpl communists', but since my eyes have now fully opened I needn't any longer employ my perverse imagination to read ahead. Nick
Re: [9fans] Practical issue on using rc shell
On Fri, Nov 13, 2009 at 12:46 PM, pmarin pacog...@gmail.com wrote: Fortu fortunately, the unix world is less radical, you can use rlfe http://per.bothner.com/software/ pmarin fortunately, plan9 includes a c compiler Nick
Re: [9fans] Go
To some extent -- that's the reason I'm asking my VM question. I think any non-trivial runtime is VM envy. I take this as a desire to make use of simpler high level constructs at the level of bytecodes. Please do pardon me for the gratuitous presumptions of the author's intentions in what follows. It seems plain to me that they are confident that a traditional machine, orthogonal to processors on the market, is and will be the definitive interface to the hardware in the greatest number of cases, and that MANY simplifications reaped from a consistent use of high level constructs can be had ex-post, i.e., from the compiler. (Interestingly enough, the future could hold for us a situation where the definitive interface to the hardware is reconfigurable logic, which, with present tools, pose complex enough a problem that it could make sense to simply implement some arbitrary machine. When that day comes or draws near, I guess that brucee would like to hear from you.) Besides with JIT like capabilities you can actually run faster in a VM setting. To effect, the same phenomenon has been observed, in, for example, [http://pdos.csail.mit.edu/papers/vx32:usenix08-abs.html]. Nick P.S.: Perhaps some 9fans of the SF Bay Area would like to hash out in person some of the details this fuzzy message sorely lacks, regarding perhaps the implications for Plan9 at large in light of recent developments? I understand that many of us are still reeling, and it is best to shut up and calculate, but in the somewhat near future it could be good to coordinate to avoid duplicated efforts. For now it suffices to point out as an example, that the first one to write an acme in Go could see their code eventually reach more people than one potentially realizes. I dare not attempt such a task myself, lest I propagate my crap code.☺
[9fans] Go
On Wed, Sep 2, 2009 at 7:20 AM, Roman V Shaposhnik r...@sun.com wrote: Personally I think you'd be better off exploring a connection that a language called Lua has to C. In the immortal words of Casablanca it just could be the begging of a beautiful friendship. Well, it was nice while it lasted. Nick
Re: [9fans] Barrelfish
maybe the Ken quote is false too - hard to believe he's that out of touch The whole table was ganging up on Roman and his crazy idea, I believe ;). The objection mostly was to Intel dumping the complexity of another core on the programmer after it ran out of steam in containing parallelism within the pipeline. Even though Inferno / CSP / Erlang / etc. type people were clearly anxious to make use of parallelism at the level of multiple processor cores, I don't think the average Java programmer was. (That's not to say that Java programmers hadn't been asking for a rude awakening. Perhaps someday, they will also learn what 'Object-Oriented' programming is. ☺) Nick
Re: [9fans] Simplified Chinese plan 9
PLEASE ERIS!! Your cerebral core-dumps are making me claustrophobic!
Re: [9fans] Intel atom motherboard - success at last
This one still has a fan. Is there anything decent *and* fanless out there? Thanks, Roman. Intel's 'netbook' platform (no amd64) -- fanless, uses a 12V DC brick -- for mini-itx: http://www.intel.com/products/desktop/motherboards/D945GSEJT/D945GSEJT-overview.htm Nick
Re: [9fans] my ts7200 port
unfortunately x86 cannot be beat, if the object of the game is price/performance the object of the game is price and power. Performance doesn't factor, notwithstanding that the terminal must drive 1024x768 vga. Nick
Re: [9fans] my ts7200 port
found what is likely the latest version lying on my laptop from over two years ago and dumped it in sources in ts7200.tar I got excited by the beagleboard again ... ron Thank you for remembering to find this, it will be of great help to me! Nick
Re: [9fans] my ts7200 port
Thank you for remembering to find this, it will be of great help to me! which board/cpu are you targeting? I really like that beagleboard. ron The TS-7200 Technologic board, the exact board in your port, I believe. The intent is to use it to netboot other machines. Also of interest is the Technologic TS-7500, http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7500 for a wifi point that can serve a HDD, and also wake up an attached larger machine and then attach itself as a usb device. (The machine has slave usb in addition to the host usb.) Thank you for the Beagleboard information. I have a need for driving a small vga lcd with a low-power arm board. The intent is to replace my ailing terminal, a thinkpad 600e. I had previously assumed the latest Gumstix board would serve this purpose, I believe which is more expensive. Nick
Re: [9fans] Cheap Native Plan9 ARM board?
http://www.glomationinc.com/ i have adopted the 'technologic ts-7200': http://www.embeddedarm.com/products/board-detail.php?product=TS-7200 it runs netbsd, i have not started any plan9 work nkl
Re: [9fans] How can I boot plan9 on my Compaq AlphaServer DS10L?
I wouldn't usually do this, as I know this isn't e-bay, :) but since access to non-x86 hardware is being discussed... seeing that gumstix has been mentioned... sitting on my desk is an assembled gumstix (no chassis) that had been intended to be my wearable plan9 terminal. my idea was to run several full framebuffers that could be panned on the touchscreen and displayed on the touchscreen itself or some other screen on the network. Maybe switching framebuffers by tapping, and wearing the keyboard on the body. i haven't touched it. Perhaps somebody here can make use of it before I get around to doing this: 1 x gumstix verdex XL6P (GS270-XL6P) 1 x consoleLCD16-vx (PKG10016) 1 x netCF-vx (PKG10035) 1 x Samsung™ 4.3 LCD panel (LTE430WQF0) (plus various cables and ac power unit for testing) nkl
Re: [9fans] acer aspire one
just looks like a good thing to run the bunny on. i don't have time to look into it now. brucee is the keyboard horrendous? nkl
Re: [9fans] xml2 and APE
hello, interfacing external languages should not often be hard, especially by defining a relevent language subset. i don't understand, though, why your external language 'xml' need now be part of your application? thanks, nkl
Re: [9fans] read/write offset hack
Poking around Plan 9 and 9P, I was wondering whether it would be a neat hack or some sort of abuse to read and write dynamically served files at different offsets to get different semantics, instead of reading and writing different files (ctl, clone, etc.) to do that. Given that the system encourages to perceive files as having arbitrary semantics (as opposed to having regular sequential file semantics) it would make sense (to me) to have reads and writes at arbitrary offsets to have arbitrary semantics as well -- that's, after all, what offset (kind of) does on a regular file, too, although in a rather trivial way. ...but my spider-sense is telling me this would probably be either rather pointless, or troublesome, or prohibited. Please set me straight. this is excellent! The only thing you need now is a new name to mark the address of the new block, a mechanism to seek to this address, and an interface to standard I/O such that writes append to the block's end. nkl
Re: [9fans] read/write offset hack
we haven't got a task force to rip keyboards from careless hands this is excellent! but Nick LaForge reminds us we can use more effective methods Vercotti: Doug (takes a drink) Well, I was terrified. Everyone was terrified of Doug. I've seen grown men pull their own heads off rather than see Doug. Even Dinsdale was frightened of Doug. 2nd Interviewer: What did he do? Vercotti: He used... sarcasm. He knew all the tricks, dramatic irony, metaphor, bathos, puns, parody, litotes and... satire. He was vicious. my apologies. :) Nyang: I must say one thing: you are simply going to LOVE an abomination of an acme feature i am working on!
