Re: [9fans] List of companies that use Plan 9.

[John the Scott]

finding nothing on google for Nantahala.  any links?

-john

On Mon, May 13, 2024 at 3:42 AM  wrote:
>
> Thank you, Sirjofri, nice idea.
>
> There are two private U.S. companies that are investing, developing, and 
> using a closed source Plan 9 distribution called ᴁOS (aka ᴁ9).  The companies 
> have been in existence since 2020.
>
> Nantahala Holdings, LLC
> Nantahala Operations, LLC (dba Nantahala Systems)
>
> Vic
>
>
> On Mon, May 13, 2024, at 17:10, sirjofri wrote:
> > Hey all,
> >
> > Just about one topic mentioned by ibrahim:
> >
> > You mentioned that 9front can't be plan 9 in your perspective because
> > of this licensing and the "origin" of the licensing.
> >
> >> 9front isn't plan9 from my perspective. Plan 9 is the final release with 
> >> patches for the files from sources I can be sure that those aren't taken 
> >> from open source projects by copy and paste.
> > [1]
> >
> > I would make a big difference between what plan 9 is and what the
> > licenses are. Software doesn't care about licenses. People do (and they
> > should!).
> >
> > So what is plan 9 even? Can we compare it to UNIX™ or unix or posix?
> > Who knows...
> >
> > I guess I could say a lot more about that topic, but I guess that's
> > enough and you can puzzle everything else yourself.
> >
> > [1] (I would be very careful with such bold words. I feel like 9front
> > people have heard this phrase a lot and it's probably very thin ice for
> > a few people.)
> >
> > ---
> >
> > About another topic: you mentioned that plan 9 is in use for commercial
> > products, and you explicitly mention german medical sensors. I've never
> > heard about that and I'd like to learn more, as well as about other
> > companies who actually use plan 9.
> >
> > Everything I always hear in the industry is that plan 9 is outdated and
> > nobody uses it and nobody wants to hear about it. I only know of a
> > single company that uses it (coraid), plus a few little projects by taw
> > that could evolve into commercial products.
> >
> > I sometimes thought about building a list of companies that use plan 9
> > technology, just so people can get involved with them, and now that I'm
> > searching for a new job that's even more interesting for me personally.
> > (Not sure if I want to do plan 9 as $dayjob, but I could see it as an
> > option.) That topic should end up in a new thread however (or even a
> > DM).
> >
> > sirjofri



-- 
Fast is fine, But accuracy is final.
You must learn to be slow in a hurry.
- Wyatt Earp

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Re: [9fans] acme and sam - mouse suggestions?

[John Floren]

My daily mouse is a Logitech 3-button mouse plugged into a PS2-USB adapter. 
Obviously they're not making them anymore but I've managed to acquire a bunch 
over the years. It's sturdy and works fine.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/384628597228

john

 Original Message 
On Jan 27, 2022, 7:48 PM, Ben Hancock wrote:

> Hi all,
> 
> Acme has become my main text editor and I'm in the market for a good
> mouse with a decent middle click (i.e. B2). If product recommendations
> aren't eschewed on the list, would fellow acme and/or sam users be
> willing to share some mice suggestions? There seem to be a real dearth
> of options that have a true middle button these days.
> 
> I'm currently using an Elecom mouse designed for use with CAD programs
> that has a true middle button, and it does a serviceable job. But it
> feels cheap and I fear it will break with much more use. I also recently
> tried a gaming mouse -- a Roccat KAIN 100 Aimo -- after reading reviews
> that its scroll wheel had a decent click. But while it's quite a nice
> mouse, the middle click requires more pressure than I'd prefer.
> 
> Many thanks in advance!
> 
> - Ben
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Re: [9fans] Transfer of Plan 9 to the Plan 9 Foundation

[John Floren]

Richard Miller being in this very thread, you could presumably get him
to say "I declare that the old bcm kernel found in the p9f code is OK
to be redistributed under the MIT license" and be done with it. Or
declare the opposite, and the p9f can remove the kernel from the
source.

As for what to do about a hypothetical patch rewriting a kernel
function that someone mailed to Bell Labs in 2003, well, I don't know.

john

On Wed, Mar 31, 2021 at 10:38 AM  wrote:
>
> Nobody is disgruntled (that we know about). The code under discussion
> in Richard Miller's contributed bcm kernel.
>
> Arnold
>
> Jeremy Jackins  wrote:
>
> > Seems to me that there is always going to be some non-zero risk of lawsuits
> > when making a change like this, but clearly the foundation was comfortable
> > with the risk. So what's the point of this discussion? Who are these
> > disgruntled contributors you are speaking on behalf of?
> >
> > On Wed, 31 Mar 2021 at 09:34,  wrote:
> >
> > > > It’s all the code that everyone is using.
> > > > The issue is that there is some code in Plan 9 not written at
> > > > Bell Labs which doesn't explicitly specify any license.
> > >
> > > What actual code are you reffering to?
> > >

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Re: [9fans] Can compile Plan9 C compiler for windows10?

[John Floren]

On Mon, Mar 29, 2021 at 10:47 AM Russ Cox  wrote:
>
> On March 29, 2021, arn...@skeeve.com wrote:
>
> OK - wasn't kenc ported to Linux for bootstrapping the early
> Go compilers? Is that version general, or not worth my trying to use?
>
>
> The early Go compilers, written in C, were compiled with gcc or clang.
>
> The Plan 9 C compiler was used for the Go runtime's initial
> C implementation, but in that context it was only dealing
> with the self-contained demands of Go itself, not arbitrary C code
> (no standard C library, much of which gawk would need).
>
> Even in that limited context, we spent a frustrating (non-zero)
> amount of time stumbling over bugs.
> Standard C has moved on, and the Plan 9 C compilers have not kept up.
> They're still fine for Plan 9 C code, but given the choice
> I wouldn't throw anything else at them.
>
> Best,
> Russ
> 9fans / 9fans / see discussions + participants + delivery options Permalink

Years back I spent some time getting the 9k kernel compiling with Go's
C compilers. It's been a long time so I don't remember everything I
had to do, but it wasn't a straight-across change and we ended up
deciding that since the Go compilers were being maintained
specifically to compile Go, it wouldn't be a good idea to hitch our
wagon to them lest they make some Go-focused changes which break our
stuff.

john

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Re: [9fans] p9f.org https times out

[John Floren]

It's been quite responsive over http; I think the main issue is that
people automatically write "https" in links these days and I'm not
sure p9f.org ever had HTTPS set up. I remember trying it weeks back
when Ron first announced it, wasn't able to connect with HTTPS back
then either.

john

On Tue, Mar 23, 2021 at 8:29 AM  wrote:
>
> Quoth Ethan Gardener :
> > https://p9f.org/ isn't responding; "The connection has timed out" according 
> > to Firefox. I've tried a few times in the last 15 minutes.
> I have a mirror running here if you need it
> ; 9fs fulton.software
> ; cd /n/fulton.software/mirror/p9f

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[9fans] Plan 9 troff paper size solution

[John A.]

Hi everyone,

I've been trying to figure out how to create A4 documents with
Plan 9 troff.  Looking at the source of dpost and the PostScript
output of GNU troff, I found a very easy solution.

1. Call dpost with -P to set the correct page size:

   dpost -P '<< /PageSize [ 595 842 ] /ImagingBBox null >> setpagedevice' 

2. Use .pl to set the page length:

.pl 29.7c

3. Use .ll (.nr LL with ms) to set the line length:

.nr LL 15.92c \" assuming PO = 1i

This seems to work properly with ms footers, too.  The last two steps
have been mentioned on the mailing list before, but I think the first
step is new.

Best regards
John


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Re: [9fans] Terminal possibliities...

[John Weaver]

It's not the bandwidth, it's the latency. I have been playing around with 
this for a few weeks now. I have it working on T60 that has the kernel, 
9fat and a cfs partition locally with the root on a vps 80ms away. There 
are pros and cons vs drawterm to the same machine. Things that I have not 
explored yet are 1) running a local build and binding $home from the vps 
or using the vps as a cpu server.



--
john weaver -- jwea...@ehzed.com



On Fri, 30 Sep 2016, Chris McGee wrote:


It would be interesting to hear how this works out in practice. The bandwidth 
requirement is probably so low compared to typical traffic from a hotel, 
compared even to smart phones.


On Sep 30, 2016, at 3:49 PM, James A. Robinson  wrote:

Is anyone here using Plan 9 as a terminal to connect to remote CPU / File 
servers over the internet to get work done?

If I set up a small Plan 9 cluster at home, I'm thinking it'd be pretty neat to 
be able to connect to the network at home over the internet.

While I have a laptop and could put 9front on it, I also really like the 
thought of carrying around a little Raspberry Pi and portable keyboard/mouse as 
an alternative.  Sitting here in a cheap motel room, I realized that all the 
hotel rooms I've been in over the past few years have a decent flat screen 
television that takes an HDMI input and has had decent, if not amazing, WiFi to 
the internet.

Jim

Re: [9fans] 9fans Digest, Vol 135, Issue 6

[John Weaver]

I have used the trendnet tu2-et100 with rmiller's image on a model A. I 
seem to remember that device name bounces around on a model b, depending 
on the port it is plugged into. I stopped using the pi for plan9 before 
9front added the stable-name-for-usb code, so I can't speak to how it 
would act today.



--
john weaver -- jwea...@ehzed.com



On Sun, 5 Jul 2015, 9fans-requ...@9fans.net wrote:


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When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific
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Today's Topics:

  1. Re: two ethernet in a raspberry pi. (michaelian ennis)


--

Message: 1
Date: Sat, 4 Jul 2015 09:10:56 -0700
From: michaelian ennis 
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs <9fans@9fans.net>
Subject: Re: [9fans] two ethernet in a raspberry pi.
Message-ID:

Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8"

I wonder, aloud, if an spi connected ethernet interface might be an
acceptable solution:

https://www.sparkfun.com/products/765

ian
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End of 9fans Digest, Vol 135, Issue 6
*

Re: [9fans] Welcome to the "9fans" mailing list

[John Francis Lee]

sorry ... I didn't realize I was replying to the list ... the email I got came 
from an individual

--
"This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies 
including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of 
sender or recipient."

John Francis Lee
246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai
T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000
Thailand


On Wed, 8/13/14, Shane Morris  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the "9fans" mailing list
 To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
 Date: Wednesday, August 13, 2014, 2:37 PM
 
 You should
 amend that "This message has been
 intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies including
 the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge
 of sender or recipient." with something about shadowy
 Goggle like computers feltching information on your spending
 habits...
 
 "The world changed on us
 Marty - and without our help, I might
 add..."
 
 
 On Wed,
 Aug 13, 2014 at 5:29 PM, John Francis Lee 
 wrote:
 
 The
 reason things are so insecure is because the US government
 likes it that way, desinged it that way and does everything
 it can to keep it that way. They are the beyond a doubt the
 biggest gang of organized criminals on earth : liars,
 murderers, spies ... you name it.
 
 
 
 
 Thanks for welcoming me to the list ... but I see you use
 google yourself ... second only to the US government as
 spies ... soon to surpass, I'm sure. I use yahoo trash
 mail for the list because I'd like to keep my
 'real' email address to myself (when I find one).
 You deliver all your correspondents's mail to the
 googleplex along with your own. You have a choice ... but
 you foreclose your correspondents' ... if they want to
 correspond with you. Google has it all.
 
 
 
 
 --
 
 "This message has been intercepted and read by U.S.
 government agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without
 notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or
 recipient."
 
 
 
 John Francis Lee
 
 246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai
 
 T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000
 
 Thailand
 
 
 
 
 
 On Wed, 8/6/14, Nick LaForge 
 wrote:
 
 
 
  Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the "9fans"
 mailing list
 
  To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs"
 <9fans@9fans.net>
 
  Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2014, 10:16 AM
 
 
 
  And, today
 
  especially, that advice applies to everybody:
 
 
 
  
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26281956/record-breaking-data-breach-highlights-widespread-security-flaws
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at
 
  5:14 PM, andrey mirtchovski 
 
  wrote:
 
 
 
  >> You must know your password
 
  to change your options (including changing
 
 
 
  >> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It
 is:
 
 
 
  >>
 
 
 
  >>   3224522
 
 
 
  >>
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  please change your password for this mailing list.
 
  this one is out in public.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
  i hope you aren't reusing passwords.
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

Re: [9fans] Welcome to the "9fans" mailing list

[John Francis Lee]

The reason things are so insecure is because the US government likes it that 
way, desinged it that way and does everything it can to keep it that way. They 
are the beyond a doubt the biggest gang of organized criminals on earth : 
liars, murderers, spies ... you name it.

Thanks for welcoming me to the list ... but I see you use google yourself ... 
second only to the US government as spies ... soon to surpass, I'm sure. I use 
yahoo trash mail for the list because I'd like to keep my 'real' email address 
to myself (when I find one). You deliver all your correspondents's mail to the 
googleplex along with your own. You have a choice ... but you foreclose your 
correspondents' ... if they want to correspond with you. Google has it all.

--
"This message has been intercepted and read by U.S. government agencies 
including the FBI, CIA, and NSA without notice or warrant or knowledge of 
sender or recipient."

John Francis Lee
246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai
T.Ropwiang A.Mueang J.Chiangrai 57000
Thailand


On Wed, 8/6/14, Nick LaForge  wrote:

 Subject: Re: [9fans] Welcome to the "9fans" mailing list
 To: "Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs" <9fans@9fans.net>
 Date: Wednesday, August 6, 2014, 10:16 AM
 
 And, today
 especially, that advice applies to everybody:
 
 
http://www.mercurynews.com/business/ci_26281956/record-breaking-data-breach-highlights-widespread-security-flaws
 
 
 
 On Tue, Aug 5, 2014 at
 5:14 PM, andrey mirtchovski 
 wrote:
 
 >> You must know your password
 to change your options (including changing
 
 >> the password, itself) or to unsubscribe.  It is:
 
 >>
 
 >>   3224522
 
 >>
 
 
 
 please change your password for this mailing list.
 this one is out in public.
 
 
 
 i hope you aren't reusing passwords.
 
 
 
 

Re: [9fans] file server speed

[john francis lee]

Sorry, found it now.

On 07/17/2014 07:31 AM, Steven Stallion wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 7:29 PM, Steven Stallion  wrote:
>> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:15 PM,   wrote:
>> It just so happens I wrote a README at the time since it was
>> non-obvious how to set it up correctly:
> 
> Corrected link: https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102312978/FOSSIL%2BVENTI
> 


-- 
John Francis Lee
Thanon Sanam Gila, Ban Fa Sai
79/151 Moo 22 T. Ropwieng
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Re: [9fans] file server speed

[john francis lee]

Not Found

The resource could not be found.

WSGI Server

On 07/17/2014 07:29 AM, Steven Stallion wrote:
> On Wed, Jul 16, 2014 at 6:15 PM,   wrote:
>>> That was in an office environment. At home I use
>>> fossil+(plan9port)venti running on linux-based NAS.
>>
>> Do you use wireless LAN?
>> If so you also need wireless bridge?
>> The combination of NAS and venti sounds like charm,
>> because the snmallest config is two machines.
>>
>> How about the power-eating of that machine?
>> Recent low-power machine can do that task?
> 
> I've used ReadyNAS appliances at home for almost 10 years. The current
> product line is made up of low-power Atoms. I'm running a RAID5 across
> 4 500G enterprise SATA drives (that should indicate how old this unit
> is pretty well...) I have a wired network primarily in the rack in the
> office at home - I absolutely would not use wireless to connect fossil
> to venti (fossil does *not* cope well with the connection to venti
> dropping).
> 
> I switched over to fossil on the ReadyNAS a little over a year ago and
> have had really good luck; not a single crash. Performance has also
> been very good.
> 
> It just so happens I wrote a README at the time since it was
> non-obvious how to set it up correctly:
> https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/102312978/FOSSIL
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> Steve
> 


-- 
John Francis Lee
Thanon Sanam Gila, Ban Fa Sai
79/151 Moo 22 T. Ropwieng
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Re: [9fans] Go and 21-bit runes (and a bit of Go status)

[john francis lee]

On 12/03/2013 11:47 PM, Charles Forsyth wrote:


On 3 December 2013 16:04, > wrote:


To keep the Go distribution honest?  Eventually, we'd want as much
convergence as possible, forking the library would make it easier to
diverge without consequences.


but it's not a question of forking the library. there's a ton of stuff 
under go/src,
so what makes libbio special? why not just compile the one there for 
its  use, which is the one it expects?

the output goes into a go-specific target directory; what else will care?

google and the nsa will care ?

--
--
Hi there, NSA 'analysts', in-house and/or contracted.

Just reminding you that if you are reading this you are committing a crime, 
that you are felons mocking the 4th Amendment of our US Constitution ...

  "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and 
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no 
warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and 
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be 
seized."

... and that someday, really soon I hope, you're going to have to pay for your 
crimes.

You're breaking international laws as well, so if you're thinking of the 'I was 
only following orders!' defense ... Please see Nuremberg Principle IV ...

  "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior 
does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice 
was in fact possible to him".

... and start exercising your moral choice. Look upon Thomas Andrews Drake and 
Edward Snowden as your exemplars and Patron Saints.

Re: [9fans] 64-bit usb boot environment

[john francis lee]

thanks.

On 10/22/2013 01:50 AM, Gabriel Diaz wrote:

Hello

I think the correct url is:

http://newftp.9atom.org/other/usbtest.bz2

regards,
gabi


From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net [mailto:9fans-boun...@9fans.net] On Behalf Of
john francis lee
Sent: Monday, October 21, 2013 1:07 AM
To: Fans of the OS Plan 9 from Bell Labs
Subject: Re: [9fans] 64-bit usb boot environment

Object not found
The object /other/usbtest.bz2 does not exist on this server.
errstr: '/usr/web/ftp/other/usbtest.bz2' directory entry not found
uri host:
header host: ftp.quanstro.net
actual host: ladd.quanstro.net


On 10/21/2013 11:48 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:
this isn't perfect, or complete, but there is a minimal
64-bit and/or 386/pae usb boot environment here
http://ftp.quanstro.net/other/usbtest.bz2.  it's only 10mb,
so it should be a quick download.  the reason
for building this was to quickly debug a system that wouldn't
install, but it might be interesting to try out.

a few random notes and gotchas:

0.  with dhcp, one can get to get to the full distribution with:
ip/ipconfig && ndb/dns && 9fs atom

1.  you will find the usb boot device @ /dev/sdu0, a loopback
device.

2.  there is a bug in kfs (patched in 9atom; patch submitted to
sources) to be aware of.  so be careful if using tools from
sources on 64-bit kernels.

3.  finally, there's (by plan 9 standards) quite a bit of acpi support
in the 64-bit kernel.  power events have been somewhat rashly
turned on, and may cause trouble.

as always, i'd be interested in any reports of success or failure.

- erik







--
john francis lee
246/3 Moo 22
Thanon Kaew Wai
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Hi there, NSA 'analysts', in-house and/or contracted.

Just reminding you that if you are reading this you are committing a crime, 
that you are felons mocking the 4th Amendment of our US Constitution ...

  "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and 
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no 
warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and 
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be 
seized."

... and that someday, really soon I hope, you're going to have to pay for your 
crimes.

You're breaking international laws as well, so if you're thinking of the 'I was 
only following orders!' 'defense' ... Please see Nuremberg Principle IV ...

  "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior 
does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice 
was in fact possible to him".

... and start exercising your moral choice. Look upon Thomas Andrews Drake and 
Edward Snowden as your exemplars and Patron Saints.

Re: [9fans] 64-bit usb boot environment

[john francis lee]

 Object not found

The object /other/usbtest.bz2 does not exist on this server.

errstr: '/usr/web/ftp/other/usbtest.bz2' directory entry not found
uri host:
header host: ftp.quanstro.net
actual host: ladd.quanstro.net



On 10/21/2013 11:48 AM, erik quanstrom wrote:

this isn't perfect, or complete, but there is a minimal
64-bit and/or 386/pae usb boot environment here
http://ftp.quanstro.net/other/usbtest.bz2.  it's only 10mb,
so it should be a quick download.  the reason
for building this was to quickly debug a system that wouldn't
install, but it might be interesting to try out.

a few random notes and gotchas:

0.  with dhcp, one can get to get to the full distribution with:
ip/ipconfig && ndb/dns && 9fs atom

1.  you will find the usb boot device @ /dev/sdu0, a loopback
device.

2.  there is a bug in kfs (patched in 9atom; patch submitted to
sources) to be aware of.  so be careful if using tools from
sources on 64-bit kernels.

3.  finally, there's (by plan 9 standards) quite a bit of acpi support
in the 64-bit kernel.  power events have been somewhat rashly
turned on, and may cause trouble.

as always, i'd be interested in any reports of success or failure.

- erik




--
john francis lee
246/3 Moo 22
Thanon Kaew Wai
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Hi there, NSA 'analysts', in-house and/or contracted.

Just reminding you that if you are reading this you are committing a crime, 
that you are felons mocking the 4th Amendment of our US Constitution ...

  "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and 
effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no 
warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and 
particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be 
seized."

... and that someday, really soon I hope, you're going to have to pay for your 
crimes.

You're breaking international laws as well, so if you're thinking of the 'I was 
only following orders!' 'defense' ... Please see Nuremberg Principle IV ...

  "The fact that a person acted pursuant to order of his Government or of a superior 
does not relieve him from responsibility under international law, provided a moral choice 
was in fact possible to him".

... and start exercising your moral choice. Look upon Thomas Andrews Drake and 
Edward Snowden as your exemplars and Patron Saints.

Re: [9fans] Moderator's Note: comp.os.plan9 Newsgroup.

[john francis lee]

Isn't google the now well-known devil itself ?

On 07/15/2013 11:04 PM, hiro wrote:

Will your replacement set up a facebook or google-plus relay then?
I thought about this already for quite some time after I've seen the
successful migration of both tech-savy and novice users to web 2.0
services. There is just no way to argue against finally making it
possible to fully exploit our modern touch-interfaces that also make
it so trivial to include scrolling media rich content, images, videos
without the typical mimecode problems.

On 7/15/13, 9f...@mail2news.bath.ac.uk <9f...@mail2news.bath.ac.uk> wrote:

The comp.os.plan9 Usenet Newsgroup is a moderated Newsgroup.
Articles require approval before being posted.  It has been
moderated from here, the University of Bath, since the 1990's.  I,
the current moderator, will be leaving the University at the end of
this month and our Usenet server will be turned off in late August
of this year.  So a new moderator for comp.os.plan9 is required.

Newsgroup articles are also sent to the 9fans mailing list.
Messages sent to the 9fans mailing list are auto-injected into the
comp.os.plan9 Usenet Newsgroup.  This bi-directional gateway will
disappear when our Usenet server is turned off.  So a volunteer to
take over this service is also required.

Further details of the above are given below.

Moderating the Newsgroup isn't labour-intensive.  For example I've
approved and posted some 18 articles in the last three months.  The
vast majority of these articles have arrived via Google Groups.

The moderator will need access to a Usenet system and have the right
to post articles to a moderated Newsgroup.  I.e. articles from the
moderator which include an Approved: header are accepted.  Volunteer
moderators are requested.

I suspect the reason that moderating the Newsgroup isn't arduous is
that the majority of the articles in the comp.os.plan9 Newsgroup are
gatewayed in from the 9fans mailing list at:

http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mailing_lists/

and most serious plan9 adherents are members of this mailing list.

Currently our Usenet server acts as a bi-directional gateway.
The articles from the 9fans mailing list are injected into the
comp.os.plan9 Newsgroup and articles approved for the Newsgroup are
sent on to the mailing list.

Gatewaying the 9fans mailing list into the Newsgroup will obviously
keep running until our Usenet server is switched off, but a
replacement elsewhere is ideally required.

The minimum requirement for gatewaying mailing list articles into
the Newsgroup is to be subscribed to the 9fans mailing list and
have access to a Usenet system with the right to post articles to a
moderated Newsgroup.

Manually injecting 9fans mailing list articles into the Newsgroup
is labour-intensive.  It needs to be automated.  There are probably
several ways of doing this, but we've set this up directly on our
Usenet server.  Our setup is similar to the following.

We use the mail domain mail2news.bath.ac.uk for mailing lists we
wish to inject into Newsgroups.  Mail for this domain is handled by
the Usenet server, which is running exim as its MTA and INN as its
Usenet software.  All incoming email is checked for viruses using
ClamAV.

An address in the mail2news.bath.ac.uk domain is subscribed to the
9fans mailing list.  Email arriving for this address is checked to
see it has the correct envelope sender (9fans-boun...@9fans.net).
If so, the INN program "mailpost" is used to inject the message
into the Newsgroup.  The "mailpost" program keeps a record of the
Message-ID's it has seen.  So there's no problem with looping, ie
the attempted injection of the same message a repeated number of
times.

Newsgroup articles could be injected into the mailing list by using
INN "news2mail" channel script.  However, betraying my original
Cnews roots, this is done by a shell script driven by the fragment:

# Inject articles posted to the comp.os.plan9 Newsgroup back into
# the mailing list, 9fans@9fans.net, using a locally written script.
# The script should include safeguards against looping, ie not
# re-injecting articles that originally came from the mailing list.
plan9mail!\
   :comp.os.plan9\
   :Tp:/opt/news/bin/plan9mail %s

in INN's newsfeeds file.

The above script uses the news2mail program from the antique but
usable newsgate.tar.Z package to send email.  The anti-looping
checks include ensuring the Newsgroup article doesn't include a
header of the form:

X-BeenThere: 9fans@9fans.net

which indicates this was a 9fans mailing list article injected into
Newsgroup.

The above may sound complex, but it's fairly maintenance free once
set up.  We clearly won't be able to continue with this service once
our Usenet server is decommissioned.  A volunteer to set up and run
a similar service is required.
--
Dennis Davis, BUCS, University of Bath, Bath, BA2 7AY, UK
d.h.da...@bath.a

Re: [9fans] Trouble building Inferno on Linux

[john francis lee]

On 04/26/2013 06:52 PM, Mista Tea wrote:

Hello,

I have followed these build instructions:
www.ueber.net/who/mjl/inferno/getting-started.html

It builds mk without error but when "mk -s nuke mkdirs install" is
run I get the following errors:

warning: skipping missing include file: ~/inferno/mkfiles/mkhost-Linux: No such 
file or directory
warning: skipping missing include file: ~/inferno/mkfiles/mkfile-Linux-386: No 
such file or directory
mk: don't know how to make 'nuke-'

I checked those files and they are in fact there, they can be read
and contain data (not zero size). If I run mk without arguments I
get the same missing include file errors.


I think the problem may be here

#OBJTYPE=386# target system object type (eg, 386, arm, mips, 
power, s800, sparc)

OBJTYPE=$objtype

#
#no changes required beyond this point
#
OBJDIR=$SYSTARG/$OBJTYPE

there is no objtype or $objtype so OBJTYPE is null.

At any rate, I just typed in '386' where is says $objtype, and it worked.

--
john francis lee
246/3 Moo 22
Thanon Kaew Wai
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Re: [9fans] [RQ]: plan9 native 1920x1200 VGA recommendation

[John Floren]

On Mon, Mar 18, 2013 at 11:57 PM, Andy Spencer  wrote:
> On 2013-03-18 12:09, Peter A. Cejchan wrote:
>> could anyone recommend (personal experience would be nice) a VGA card
>> that can support 1920x1200 mode on native Plan 9 from Bell Labs (from
>> Bell Labs ;-) ?
>
> I used to use a Dell M70 laptop with a 1920x1200 display. It had an
> "Nvidia Quadro FX Go 1400" card which worked just fine with Plan 9.
>
> It's been years since I used it, but I remember I had to boot the laptop
> in Linux and dump the modeline out of X somehow. I don't remember the
> specifics on how to do that, but then I just pasted it into vgadb and
> set the options in plan9.ini and everything worked great.
>
> I doubt it will help anyone, but here are the settings I used:
>
> plan9.ini:
>   | monitor=dellm70
>   | vgasize=1920x1200x32
>
> vgadb:
>   | dellm70=1920x1200x32
>   | clock=162
>   | shb=2020 ehb=2108 ht=2160
>   | vrs=1201 vre=1204 vt=1250
>   | hsync=+ vsync=+
>

Here's the process I used to moderate success:
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/adding_a_monitor_to_vgadb/

Worked with a Syncmaster 240T, which was 1920x1200.

john

Re: [9fans] ANTS: Better in every single way than standard plan 9. Stop using p9p.

[John Floren]

Look.

I'm sorry nobody commented when you posted your software.

I'm sorry you and Eric et al. were working on sorta similar things at
the same time.

But can you cut it out with the fucking nuclear meltdowns all over
this list? And fix your email client so it replies to threads
properly?



john

On Sat, Mar 16, 2013 at 6:28 AM,   wrote:
> OK I can see I have not made myself clear in any way.
>
> MY SOFTWARE MAKES PLAN NINE BETTER
>
> MY SOFTWARE FIXES HUGE NUMBERS OF PLAN NINE PROBLEMS
>
> MY SOFTWARE IS EXACTLY WHAT ROB PIKE AND CREW SHOULD HAVE MADE PLAN NINE DO 
> ALREADY
>
> IF YOU THINK THIS IS WRONG I CHALLENGE YOU TO USE ANTS IN A SERIOUS WAY
>
> AND IF YOU DO NOT THINK IT IMPROVES PLAN NINE
>
> I WILL PAYPAL YOU FIFTY BUCKS
>
> OFFER GOOD FOR THE FIRST FIVE RESPONDENTS
>
> CONDITIONS: YOU MUST SCREENSHOT COMPLETING ALL FIVE TUTORIALS
>
> THEN TELL ME ANTS SUCKS
>
> THEN I PAYPAL YOU FIFTY BUCKS
>
> THAT EASY
>
> Ben Kidwell
> "mycroftiv"
>

Re: [9fans] Can you pass the Advanced Namespace Test?

[John Stalker]

I'm not going to comment on most of this, but I will say something
about this bit:

> So I try to release ANTS to the Plan 9 community, and I just can't
> tell what anyone thinks.  Some people say it seems cool, but even
> though I made all this documentation and ready to use virtual
> machines, it doesn't seem like anyone is really exploring the thing
> that I invested all my heart and soul and best efforts in creating.  I
> thought people would be interested and excited by what I was trying to
> do, even if my implementation was amateurish.

This is something you will have to get used to. Ideas, whether
good or bad, usually take a very long time to attract much attention.
Other people have their own preoccupations and will not normally
pay much attention to anything you do. If you're looking for
external validation then you will need a lot of patience. For
better or worse, that's the way the world works.

> Anyway, no clue who made it to the end of this wall of text, but
> thanks if you did.

You're welcome.
> 
> Ben Kidwell "mycroftiv"
> 
-- 
John Stalker
School of Mathematics
Trinity College Dublin
tel +353 1 896 1983
fax +353 1 896 2282

[9fans] what are people using for IRC these days

[John Floren]

So, while my IRC bouncer runs on my Plan 9 server, I've been
connecting to it using Linux and Windows clients. Now that I've got my
rpi set up with a nice monitor and everything, I'm looking at IRC on
Plan 9 again.

What clients are people using these days? I remember using something
in Acme that posted a file in /srv, supported multiple channels, etc.,
but also tended to gobble up a lot of cpu time when I'd start a new
instance of the client. Server authentication would be useful for
authenticating to my bouncer too.


john

Re: [9fans] The PATENTED IBM MULTI-PIPE : the evolution of unix pipes

[John Floren]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 10:17 AM,   wrote:
> John Floren wrote:
>> I probably didn't read the iosrv and hubfs stuff well enough, but
>> multi-pipes are not like gnu screen--unless hubfs and/or iosrv can
>> do barriers and reduces and I just missed that part?
>
> The connection to screen is really only in usage.  Iosrv and Hubfs
> were the result of trying to give myself persistent rc shells in Plan
> 9.  Because of the absence of the TTY layer, it seemed like the thing
> to do was to buffer and multiplex each file descriptor of a shell, and
> allow multiple clients to connect to those buffers.
>
> Even though this architecture was created for keeping persistent rc
> shells around, I realized that it was actually a very beautiful
> general purpose extension of the original unix pipes, and could be
> used for a large number of purposes, including cluster processing type
> applications.
>
> So the connection to screen is not "technical" at all - just that the
> main purpose I wrote iosrv/hubfs for (and btw hubfs is vastly superior
> to iosrv for practical use if anyone is interested) was to keep
> persistent rc shells around on remote machines for analogous usage to
> screen.
>
> Anyway, I think multipipes/hubs/pipemuxers are just a good idea for
> Plan 9 (and probably standard unixes too) and that they fit
> beautifully with 9P and the whole system.  I'd like to move forward
> with trying to make good Plan 9 software and not have this particular
> little patent kerfuffle turn into anything majorly disruptive.
>
> Ben Kidwell
> "mycroftiv"
>
> -Who would rather go back to trying to explain ANTS and hoping
> that other Plan 9 users would take an interest and explore it.
>

Well, you made it a kerfuffle, and then somebody decided to post it to
HN, so well done that. If you come in saying "Oh look somebody made a
patent but I think this is prior art", expect a kerfuffle. (That's a
good word. Kerfuffle)

Looking through my mail archives, I found a link from Eric that led me
to http://graverobbers.blogspot.com/search/label/brasil which I think
contains the seeds of multi-pipes. Note that these were all posted
prior to your time-traveling expedition.

john

Re: [9fans] The PATENTED IBM MULTI-PIPE : the evolution of unix pipes

[John Floren]

On Fri, Mar 15, 2013 at 8:04 AM, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> Here's the original iosrv/hub announcement:
> http://9fans.net/archive/2009/07/278
>
> So what's the real difference between iosrv/hubfs and MULTI-PIPES?  Is
> anyone here good enough at translating patentese to code to tell what
> the technical differences are?  The patent even specifically mentions
> 9P.
>
> khm
>

The primary difference is that the multi-pipes patent is probably
shorter than that announcement.

I probably didn't read the iosrv and hubfs stuff well enough, but
multi-pipes are not like gnu screen--unless hubfs and/or iosrv can do
barriers and reduces and I just missed that part?


john

Re: [9fans] Acme/Mail with plan9ports in Mac OS

[John Floren]

This is just a guess, but what does your $PATH look like?

On Sat, Mar 9, 2013 at 11:10 AM, Rubén Berenguel  wrote:
> Hi everyone,
>
> I'm trying (just for the sake of getting it to work!) to read my (imap) mail
> via acme from plan9ports. I got the mail file server started in my namespace
> (I can 9p ls mail and see my folders in INBOX for my work account, but I
> can't get gmail to work... Probably needs TLS support and if I understood
> correctly, plan9port does not have TLS yet.)
>
> Problem is, if I middle-click on Mail in the main tag in Acme, I am greeted
> by:
>
> Mail: exit 1
> No mail for ruben
>
> ruben is my local user name, which is different from my imap login name.
> Looks like Mail is executing the "mail" command instead of using Acme/Mail.
> How can I get Acme/Mail to understand where to fetch mail? I thought it
> would be automatic, getting it via the mail file server but looks like it
> doesn't. Oh, I have the plumber (and factotum) also running, both seem to be
> working correctly (at least I can plumb things and they work.)
>
> Any suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
>
> Ruben Berenguel

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 ARM questions

[John Floren]

xcpu is cool, but it doesn't really have anything to do with either of
his questions besides being generally related to HPC.

I don't see why you couldn't make linuxemu portable, Ron did something
similar to run CNK binaries on Bluegene.

john

On Fri, Mar 8, 2013 at 3:07 AM, Bence Fábián  wrote:
> maybe it would be worthwhile to look into XCPU:
>
> http://xcpu.sourceforge.net/
>
>
>
>
> 2013/3/8 Paolo P. Martino 
>
>> Hello all,
>>
>> I am studying for a MSc in High Performance Computing at the Edinburgh
>> University, UK.
>> As part of my dissertation project, I was thinking to use Plan 9 as
>> compute node for ARM-based clusters.
>> My idea is to "port" the ideas of Plan 9 on Bluegene to ARM.
>> I have a couple of questions:
>> 1) How is the status of linuxemu? Does it work only on x86 or is it
>> portable? This because of MPI/OpenMP/FORTRAN widely used in High Performance
>> Computing.
>> 2) Is someone already working to port Plan 9 on Exynos5/Cortex A15
>> processors?
>>
>> I'm still checking with my university if I can use this project also for
>> the GSoC 2013.
>>
>> Thank you for your time,
>> Paolo P. Martino
>>
>

Re: [9fans] new fork?

[John Floren]

On Wed, Feb 27, 2013 at 1:36 PM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> http://plan10.tumblr.com/
>

"I'll set up the wiki"

Re: [9fans] c compiler bug

[John Floren]

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:46 AM, Comeau At9Fans
 wrote:
> On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 1:39 PM, erik quanstrom 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Thu Feb 21 13:23:26 EST 2013, j...@jfloren.net wrote:
>> > I think his mail client is just too world-class,  breathtaking,
>> > amazing, and fabulous--have you tried it?
>> >
>> > On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> > > can you please stop sending html mails? thanks
>>
>> why does this bother anybody?  i hadn't even noticed, and i
>> use nedmail to read my mail.  which is somewhat of an
>> admission of failure.  i used to just bring up my mail box in
>> acme until google started base64ing heavily.  which is oddly
>> another admission of defeat.  after 40 years of trying, we still don't
>> have 8-bit clean email.
>
>
> It's "just" gmail, perhaps my own admission of failure? :)
>

Gmail has interesting ideas sometimes about when it should send HTML.
I seem to have figured out how to make it always send plain-text, but
unfortunately I can't remember how exactly I did that.


john

Re: [9fans] c compiler bug

[John Floren]

I think his mail client is just too world-class,  breathtaking,
amazing, and fabulous--have you tried it?

On Thu, Feb 21, 2013 at 10:13 AM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
> can you please stop sending html mails? thanks
>
> On 2/21/13, Comeau At9Fans  wrote:
>> On Mon, Feb 18, 2013 at 9:38 AM, Charles Forsyth
>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 18 February 2013 13:02, Comeau At9Fans 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 seems to be doing is setting up allowing the call to compile and once
 that is satisfied then the subsequent definition "has" to match it, as
 perhaps a way to do type punning.
>>>
>>>
>>> No, the compiler is simply applying scope rules. Without that inner
>>> declaration explicitly overriding the outer declaration--whether static
>>> or
>>> extern is used--
>>> it will not compile (eg, if you put "static void fn(Outer*);" or "extern
>>> void fn(Outer*);" and remove static from fn in the file scope).
>>>
>>> The behaviour is undefined in ANSI C if two declarations that refer to
>>> the
>>> same object or function do not have compatible types
>>> (normally, you're protected by another rule that you can't have
>>> incompatible declarations *in the same scope*).
>>>
>>> ANSI C does, however, forbid the inner static declaration (which
>>> surprised
>>> me)
>>> "The declaration of an identifier for a function that has block scope
>>> shall have no explicit storage-class specifier other than extern."
>>> (6.7.1)
>>>
>>
>> We're probably saying the same thing.  As you say ANSI C forbids it hence
>> my comment about normally a diagnostic from a so-called mainstream
>> compiler.   And as you say without a declaration it would not compile
>> either.  The declaration should normally be in global scope (it could have
>> been), which would have also produced a diagnostic since Inner/Outer don't
>> match.  That leaves the declaration where Eric showed it, which the Plan 9
>> compiler obviously allowed.  As you note the net effect is it's undefined
>> (if we're using ANSI C as the metric) hence created a kind of type pun
>> (even if the original code did it as a mistake).
>>
>> --
>> Greg Comeau / 4.3.10.1 with C++0xisms now in beta!
>> Comeau C/C++ ONLINE ==> http://www.comeaucomputing.com/tryitout
>> World Class Compilers:  Breathtaking C++, Amazing C99, Fabulous C90.
>> Comeau C/C++ with Dinkumware's Libraries... Have you tried it?
>>
>

Re: [9fans] going too far?

[John Floren]

"go clean" does the same thing on Linux under strace, reading the
headers from all the .go files of each package's dependencies. I have
included the strace output of "strace -e open -f go clean
github.com/floren/ellipsoid" below.

The help for the command says "Clean removes object files from package
source directories.", so I'm guessing it's also going through and
cleaning the dependencies of the target.

open("/etc/ld.so.cache", O_RDONLY)  = 3
open("/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libpthread.so.0", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu/libc.so.6", O_RDONLY) = 3
open("/proc/stat", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC)  = 3
Process 3345 attached (waiting for parent)
Process 3345 resumed (parent 3344 ready)
[pid  3344] open("/proc/sys/net/core/somaxconn", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid/ellipsoid.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] 
open("/home/john/mygo/src/github.com/floren/ellipsoid/ellipsoid_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/doc.go", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/export_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/fmt_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/format.go", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/print.go", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/scan.go", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/scan_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/fmt/stringer_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/errors.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/errors_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/errors/example_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/alg.c", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/append_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/arch_amd64.h",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/asm_amd64.s",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/atomic_amd64.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cgocall.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cgocall.h",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/chan.c", O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/chan_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/closure_amd64.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/closure_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/compiler.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/complex.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/cpuprof.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/debug.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs1_linux.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs2_linux.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_arm_linux.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_linux.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/defs_linux_amd64.h",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/error.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/export_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/extern.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/float.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/gc_test.go",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open("/usr/local/go/src/pkg/runtime/hashmap.c",
O_RDONLY|O_CLOEXEC) = 3
[pid  3344] open(&quo

Re: [9fans] ppxeload nix

[John Floren]

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 1:35 PM, Benjamin Huntsman
 wrote:
>>i think this is active any longer
>
> So what is the current "official" location to obtain the amd64 Plan 9?
>

Depends who you ask. When the google code repo dropped out of use,
http://lsub.org/ls/nix.html became a good place to get the source.
There are other forks too, such as Erik's 9atom which distributes
basically the same source as you can find on lsub.org (because he
wrote a lot of the patches for the lsub fork)


john

Re: [9fans] ppxeload nix

[John Floren]

On Wed, Feb 6, 2013 at 10:33 PM, Benjamin Huntsman
 wrote:
> Network boot from Intel E1000
> Copyright (C) 2003-2008 VMware, Inc.
> Copyright (C) 1997-2000 Intel Corporation
>
> CLIENT MAC ADDR: 00 0C 29 D2 AC AC  GUID: 564DA193-9D84-E902-D0E8-F20CCBD2ACAC
> CLIENT IP: 10.0.0.133  MASK: 255.255.255.0  DHCP IP: 10.0.0.101
> GATEWAY IP: 10.0.0.1
> Protected-mode bootstrap...
> ELCR: 0E00
> cpuidentify: cpuidax 0x306a9 cpuiddx 0xfabfbff
> apm ax=f000 cx=f000 dx=40 di= ebx=5770 esi=-1
> Boot devices: fd0
> boot from:
>
>
> I'd think that at this point, I should just be able to type 
> "ether0!/amd64/9k8cpu", but alas that just gets me another "boot from:" 
> prompt.  One gotcha that I can think of is that my TFTP server is not the 
> same as my DHCP server.  Is there a way to specify the TFTP server?  Or am I 
> missing something really stupidly simple like ppxeload not supporting the 
> E1000 that VMware Fusion emulates, or that my ppxeload binary may need to be 
> recompiled?
>
> Many thanks in advance!
>
> -Ben
>

If ether0 isn't listed under "Boot devices", then the bootloader
wasn't able to detect it, so you can't load your kernel over ethernet.
Give it a shot with a different network card or try one of the other
methods suggested in this thread.

If you compile an ELF kernel it's also theoretically
multiboot-compatible, so you may be able to boot using something like
pxelinux instead of ppxeload. You can boot an amd64 kernel with GRUB,
but I had to change one line of 6l's ELF header construction code.

john

Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013 dates set

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 9:25 AM, Kurt H Maier  wrote:
> On Mon, Jan 21, 2013 at 11:28:34AM -0500, erik quanstrom wrote:
>> 31 Oct - 2 Nov 2013
>>
>> http://iwp9.org
>>
>> - erik
>>
>
> cfp.pdf is a 404, and it says the registration deadline is in 2011.  Is
> commuting to this location from Atlanta feasible?
>

It's a pretty long drive from Atlanta to Athens. Get a hotel in
Athens, or use Airbnb, or something, or else you'll spend 2+ hours a
day hating yourself as you sit in traffic.

john

Re: [9fans] PBSR...EI

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 10:54 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>> I'm about an hour and a half into downloading 9atom, with about a half
>> hour to go. I'll probably be able to report on my progress tomorrow.
>>
>> Have you ever considered hosting the iso on a faster server? It's kind
>> of harsh to wait 2 hours every time there's an update.
>
> the server is willing, but the network is weak.  ☺
> i'm evaluating some options now.  unfortunately, they're
> not cheap.
>
> at least the (older) new tcp help out a bit.
>
> - erik
>

Ok, 9atom gets into the proper Plan 9 kernel but sticks at:

896M memory: 256M kernel data, 639M user, 0M swap

Re: [9fans] PBSR...EI

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jan 14, 2013 at 8:52 PM, erik quanstrom
 wrote:
>> Has anyone else run into this? Is it something to do with the new
>> bootloaders? I've seen it on several other motherboards lately and
>> don't remember ever seeing it when I last installed from CD (about 2
>> years ago).
>
> fwiw, i never saw that with 9load.  if you don't mind downloading overnight,
> there's a new 9atom.  i added cinap's aml interperter to the pc kernel.
>
> - erik
>

I'm about an hour and a half into downloading 9atom, with about a half
hour to go. I'll probably be able to report on my progress tomorrow.

Have you ever considered hosting the iso on a faster server? It's kind
of harsh to wait 2 hours every time there's an update.


john

[9fans] PBSR...EI

[John Floren]

I've been trying to install Plan 9 on a previously-untried system.
When I put in the install disc and try to boot, I only see "PBSR...EI"
and then nothing else. I've seen this with the Bell Labs CD and both
9legacy images. I have an old 9atom disc that gets farther, booting
into the actual kernel and getting as far as printing out how much
memory is available and where it is allocated. I have not tried a more
recent 9atom disc yet because it takes too long to download.

Has anyone else run into this? Is it something to do with the new
bootloaders? I've seen it on several other motherboards lately and
don't remember ever seeing it when I last installed from CD (about 2
years ago).


John

Re: [9fans] big endian plan 9 machine?

[John Floren]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 11:06 AM, Richard Miller <9f...@hamnavoe.com> wrote:
>>> Blue Gene
>>>
>>
>> hard to fit in the basement.
>
> How about an ipengine (mpc823)?  I've got one gathering dust here.
>
>

I caution against working on any hardware which can no longer be
purchased new (sparc32, alpha), it's just pouring time/money down a
hole. Sparc64 appears to still be available, although only as
expensive server hardware?


john

Re: [9fans] big endian plan 9 machine?

[John Floren]

On Sun, Jan 13, 2013 at 10:48 AM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Sun Jan 13 13:45:52 EST 2013, charles.fors...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Blue Gene
>>
>
> hard to fit in the basement.
>
> - erik
>

I don't know about the /Q's A2 processors, but you could at one point
buy PPC440 development boards, which were very handy.

Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:52 PM,   wrote:
> dossrv always had fat32 support. you'r probably refering to disk/format,
> 9bootfat and pbs which do support fat32 now in 9front.
>
> --
> cinap
>

Thanks, you're entirely right, I was thinking of disk/format.

john

Re: [9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jan 11, 2013 at 3:24 PM,   wrote:
> i think fat is still the best option, even tho it has these limitations.
> virtually every operating system can deal with fat, and the implementations
> are robust and tolerant to errors because they are pretty much expected.
>
> ext2srv doesnt support jurnaling.
>
> --
> cinap
>

Someone mentioned that 9front has a 32-bit FAT implementation, is that
right? If so, it would probably be the best contender.

john

[9fans] a disk filesystem for both Plan 9 and Linux?

[John Floren]

I'd like to be able to use a disk in both Plan 9 and Linux. FAT seems
to have some issues with sufficiently large partitions, so that's out.
Plan9Port doesn't have fossil in the repo, although I've found
patches. ext2srv may be an option, but I have no idea how reliable it
would actually be.

Am I missing any options for filesystems that are supported by both
Linux and Plan 9? Can anyone comment on the reliability/usefulness of
ext2srv?


john

Re: [9fans] these are release of 9front?

[John Floren]

I recommend checking out the 9front list,
https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups#!forum/9front. They
announce the new releases there and list the changes. It would also be
a good place for asking about 9front.

john

On Mon, Jan 7, 2013 at 5:07 PM, Francesco Cardi
 wrote:
> http://ninetimes.cat-v.org/news/
>
> in these releases 9front there are customizations to the system or
> just added firmware and patches?
>
> --
> Cardi Francesco alias Il Parente
> Free Software activist
> CEO/President Movimento Culturale GNU CODICE LIBERO
>
> Diaspora*: https://joindiaspora.com/u/ilparente
> Identi.ca: https://identi.ca/cardifrancesco
> Jabber: ilpare...@jabber.org
>

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Sun, Jan 6, 2013 at 8:49 AM, Rox 64  wrote:
> It seems I don't need aux/realemu and aux/vga at all to boot rio, it can run
> with monitor=vesa and vgasize=640x480x8 in plan9.ini. I still haven't found
> out how to run in 1024x738 with vesa, through, will check if it can run at
> least at 800x600 with the vga command as you said.

aux/vga and aux/mouse are being called by the startup scripts in that
case. Erik just posted the variable declarations and command calls
which end up being made from plan9.ini and the startup scripts--you'll
only need to use them if you've misconfigured plan9.ini.

john

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 3:43 PM, Rox 64  wrote:
> I don't really want to deal with ELF binaries and Grub...
> I will try 9front and if its bootloader works then I will use it against
> vanilla Plan 9.

I merely suggest GRUB because it seems like most of the time, if I can
get through 9load, I can boot the system OK, but sometimes 9load won't
work on such-and-such hardware and I have to resort to PXE booting,
putting the disk in another system to install, whatever. I've found
GRUB on a bootable USB stick to be a pretty reliable way to drop you
into a 32-bit kernel.

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Sat, Jan 5, 2013 at 2:42 PM, Rox 64  wrote:
> Maybe should I try 9front instead? I read they made a new bootloader to fix
> that issue.

The PC kernel is also (supposed to be) multiboot-compliant, so you
should be able to boot it with GRUB if that helps. You just have to
build the kernel as an ELF file.

This means, of course, that you'll have to make do with default
configuration options or hard-code the options, since GRUB doesn't
read plan9.ini.


john

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 9:26 AM, John Floren  wrote:
> On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Rox 64  wrote:
>> Hu guys.
>> Will Plan 9/9atom/9front run on a EEE 1005HA?
>
> I have that same netbook. One of your big challenges will probably be
> getting the CDROM to boot in a machine without a CDROM drive. There
> exist bootable images for USB sticks which contain a full fossil
> filesystem; you can start the installation from there. In fact, I had
> made a 32-bit bootable USB stick for Nix about a year ago and included
> a script to start the installation, I'll see if I can find it.
>
>
> john

Following up on this, it looks like the scripts I used are still in
the NIX distribution.

/usr/glenda/mknixboot (based on /rc/bin/mkusbboot) will help you
create a bootable USB stick from your NIX tree or, presumably, from a
9atom root.

/usr/glenda/bin/rc/startinstall is what you run after booting the USB stick.

Hope this helps.


John

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:39 AM, Rox 64  wrote:
> Hu guys.
> Will Plan 9/9atom/9front run on a EEE 1005HA?

I have that same netbook. One of your big challenges will probably be
getting the CDROM to boot in a machine without a CDROM drive. There
exist bootable images for USB sticks which contain a full fossil
filesystem; you can start the installation from there. In fact, I had
made a 32-bit bootable USB stick for Nix about a year ago and included
a script to start the installation, I'll see if I can find it.


john

Re: [9fans] 9atom

[John Floren]

On Fri, Jan 4, 2013 at 8:19 AM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>> Is that targeting Intel Atom CPUs?  I have an EEEPC sitting so that's
>> a good chance to start using Plan9 in a real environment (non VM).
>> The fact that go is provided is tempting :)
>
> originally, the goal was to get atom machines working.  that goal
> was largely met, so the name is somewhat of an anachronism.
> it's the same set of kernels i run everwhere.
>
> i don't know anything about any model of the eeepc.  ymmv.
>
> there's no go included in 9atom yet, but you should be able
> to install it with no problems.
>
> - erik
>

If you check out the Go source and don't find any build framework for
Plan 9, you may need to check out the current repo tip to get it.
That's what I did when I installed Go, but it was months ago so YMMV.

john

Re: [9fans] build iso's plan9 for amd64, atom, arm, powerpc

[John Floren]

What I think people are trying to say is that this doesn't really make
a lot of sense. The AMD64 system doesn't have any installer work done
for it at all--I think it's not far off, but to the best of my
knowledge nobody has built a CDROM that boots the 64-bit kernel and
gives you the installer from there (Erik, have you done this yet?).
I've never even SEEN an ARM system with a CD-ROM, and it's uncertain
if a given ARM system's bootloader will support booting from a USB
CD-ROM drive; it's just not how OSes are installed on ARM!


john

On Wed, Jan 2, 2013 at 11:58 AM, Francesco Cardi
 wrote:
> I think the most practical thing is to create an iso based on the
> specific architecture you have, you have to give me the link, the
> messages I have written does not give me complete information but they
> are only concepts, I need documntazione I want to build a iso, do not
> want to create a combo iso for various things
>
>
>
> --
> Cardi Francesco alias Il Parente
> Free Software activist
> CEO/President Movimento Culturale GNU CODICE LIBERO
>
> Diaspora*: https://joindiaspora.com/u/ilparente
> Identi.ca: https://identi.ca/cardifrancesco
> Jabber: ilpare...@jabber.org
>

Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013

[John Floren]

It means that the football hooligans will be out of town rather than
filling all the hotels and drinking all the beer. I'm told that Athens
during a college football game is truly a sight to see. (From a
distance. On closed-circuit camera. In a bunker)

john

On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 10:20 PM, Aram Hăvărneanu  wrote:
> What does "away game" mean?
>
> --
> Aram Hăvărneanu
>

Re: [9fans] iwp9 2013

[John Floren]

Evidently decided by the Plan 9 Cabal... sp9sss has competition!

Or it came up at Dublin and the rest of us missed it, whichever one :)


john


On Tue, Nov 20, 2012 at 5:26 PM, Matthew Veety  wrote:

> Yes you did.
>
>

Re: [9fans] Attempts to set timezone don't stick?

[John Floren]

On Mon, Nov 12, 2012 at 5:33 PM, Phineas Pett  wrote:
> Hello List,
>
> I'm attempting to setup a native Plan 9 system for the first time, but
> I'm having a bit of trouble getting the timezone to ``stick.''
>
> Putting the following in my /lib/profile seemed the intuitive and
> correct thing to do:
>
> bind /adm/timezone/US_Central /adm/timezone/local
>
> But it does not work, and I don't understand why.

I wouldn't expect this to work. According to date(1),
/adm/timezone/local is copied into /env/timezone by init, meaning your
bind comes far too late.

You need to physically copy the file over, and then presumably reboot
to get everything set properly.

>
> The following also failed:
>
> cat /adm/timezone/US_Central > /adm/timezone/local
>

Did you reboot after doing this?


John

Re: [9fans] Newbie question: I have a plan9 system running on

[John Floren]

On Mon, Nov 5, 2012 at 5:33 AM, keystroke  wrote:
> I'm not sure whether it's stupid to ask this question here.
>
> Maybe it's too easy a question to answer, maybe you think that I am too lazy 
> to post a question before do a good search on google, or read the document 
> offered.
>
> But English is not my first language, and it is a ton of words to read in 
> order to just compile some pieces of code. And I got no one to ask, and there 
> are no place where I can ask for help except here.
>
> If it's too much to type, just give me some hints to google.
>
> Help me, please.
>

Go ahead and ask the question--it looks like you forgot it in your first email!


john

Re: [9fans] Kernel panic when allocating a huge memory

[John Floren]

On Fri, Nov 2, 2012 at 10:36 AM, Pavel Klinkovsky
 wrote:
>>> It really seems as a problem with swap. :(
>>
>> this is well known, and solutions are available
>> even if you don't care to use them.
>
> Oh, does it mean the official Plan 9 distribution contains non-working swap? 
> :O
> It is clear I missed something...
>
> Sorry for the noise.
>
> Pavel
>

Swap has been broken since at least 2005 (my first experiments with
Plan 9). Once I stopped trying to compile ghostscript on a 32 MB
laptop, I never really had problems with the lack... hell, I did my
master's work and most of my personal computing on a laptop with only
1 GB of RAM and no swap for most of 2010, only ran into problems when
aptitude decided to calculate a multi-gig dependency graph.

Swapping is so painful, please consider buying more RAM. It may be
simple to fix the swap code, if you're inclined to do some kernel
hacking, because the kernel in general is pleasant to work with.


john

Re: [9fans] bell stuff off line ?

[John Floren]

Asking the same question 3 times in as many minutes will not get any
faster answer


john

On Wed, Oct 31, 2012 at 3:10 AM,   wrote:
> hi,
>
> i just tried to get to the plan9 stuff at plan9.bell-labs.com and the google 
> DNS doesnt even resolve the name. i know that it could be hosted somewhere at 
> alcatel-lucent now but cant find anything about plan9 on their site. please 
> tell me they didnt took the complete project with all its great documentation 
> offline :/. maybe  im just to stupid to find anything on their site, so , if 
> you know where the whole  stuff has gone please give me a link or something.
>
> greets
> kali
>

Re: [9fans] rc vs sh

[John Floren]

On Thu, Oct 25, 2012 at 10:18 AM, Matthew Veety  wrote:
>
> On Oct 25, 2012 1:00 PM, "Gorka Guardiola"  wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> On Oct 25, 2012, at 5:08 PM, hiro <23h...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > can someone tell me how to speed up poweroff on ubuntu?
>>
>> Pull the cable and or battery.
>>
>> G.
>>
>>
>
> Don't use Ubuntu.
>
> --
> Veety

I think that was the joke.


john

Re: [9fans] 9grid?

[John Floren]

On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:41 PM, Matthew Veety  wrote:
> On 10/23/2012 8:11 PM, Don A. Bailey wrote:
>>
>> Go embeds parallel/grid functionality now instead of just lightweight
>> thread execution? Which packages would you point me at?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> D
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 5:09 PM, ron minnich > <mailto:rminn...@gmail.com>> wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, Oct 23, 2012 at 1:22 PM, Don A. Bailey
>> > <mailto:d...@capitolhillconsultants.com>> wrote:
>>
>>  > I'm interested in the code for managing grid nodes and delegating
>> tasks.
>>
>> Real code? talk to charles.
>>
>> Or now that Go works, you could look at some of those packages.
>>
>> ron
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Don A. Bailey
>> CEO/Founding Partner
>> Capitol Hill Consultants LLC
>> 1-303-947-6557
>>
>>
>
> I would avoid using Go on Plan 9 right now for anything production because
> it has issues when using many concurrent tcp connections. If you do want to
> use Go, stick with reading and writing files, and let 9P do it's thing.
>
> --
> Veety
>
>

Write a basic http server for Plan 9 (in C) and run Apache Benchmark
against it. Somewhere around 100 concurrent connections, I tend to get
failure. There's code in /sys/src/9/ip that has a hard limit on the #
of concurrent connections IIRC.

I'd post the code for the server I wrote, but it was written as part
of work so I can't. Still, it's not hard to put together a server
which responds only to a GET.

john

Re: [9fans] I need some EDID

[John Floren]

Everybody, PLEASE, restrain yourselves and send the EDID output to Ron
directly, not to 9fans.


John

On Mon, Oct 22, 2012 at 12:22 PM, ron minnich  wrote:
> so, if any of you have X11 running, and could do this:
> xrandr --verbose
>
> and send the output to me, subject
> EDID
>
> I would NOT be forever in your debt, and I will NOT put your name in
> lights, but I would appreciate it :-)
>
> ron
>

Re: [9fans] off-topic: why linux lost the desktop

[John Floren]

> Precisely.  The correlation between what makes something
> good and what makes something popular is small but negative.
> One of the primary reasons I stopped using Linux was that
> it was becoming too mainstream and just like all the
> commercial junk out there.

I too find Linux too mainstream: http://i.imgur.com/Wtm16.png


john

Re: [9fans] fossil option -m

[John Floren]

On Fri, Aug 17, 2012 at 10:30 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Sat Aug 18 01:04:53 EDT 2012, aris...@ar.aichi-u.ac.jp wrote:
>> Helo,
>>
>> Plan 9 manual FOSSIL(4) says about fossil/fossil command option -m:
>>   -m  Allocate free-memory-percent percent of the avail-
>>   able free RAM for buffers.  This overrides all other
>>   memory sizing parameters, notably the -c option to
>>   open.
>> How to give memory, for example 25%, to fossil in starting 9pcf or 9pccpuf 
>> kernel?
>> I think the value should be enabled to be given in plan9.ini, but I couldn't 
>> find in the manual PLAN9.INI(8).
>
> if you're using standard plan 9 boot stuff, you'll need to hack boot/local.c
> right under the /* start fossil */ comment, or fossil itself.  personally, 
> i'd lean
> toward adding an environment variable which could be put into plan9.ini
> and be the equivalent of -m.
>
> - erik
>

You can also use a boot.fs kernel, so you can define the startup in an
rc script. Very convenient, I used it to set up our
cpu/auth/fileserver to use a Coraid AoE device for Venti.

John

[9fans] drawterm to a cpu server without authentication

[John Floren]

I'm playing around with booting a cpu kernel in qemu, and I'd like to
be able to drawterm to it for testing stuff. However, as it is it
seems that I need to specify an auth server. sources.cs.bell-labs.com
works, but that's clunky and depending on my networking situation not
always an option.

Is there a way to boot a cpu server such that it will just accept
connections from anyone, without authentication? Sort of like how you
can connect to sources as "none", except for cpu.


john

Re: [9fans] higher-end compute server recommendations?

[John Floren]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 9:58 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Wed Jul 25 00:45:01 EDT 2012, j...@jfloren.net wrote:
>> We've got some budget left for hardware, so I'm looking for a server
>> suitable for running Plan 9, preferably as good as I can get for about
>> $3000-5000. Buying non-Thinkpad Plan 9 hardware is kind of a
>> crapshoot, and this isn't just some $100 Atom system, so if any of you
>> are running something along these lines, please let me know. I'd most
>> like to see lots of cores and lots of RAM, I don't even want storage
>> (we've got other methods for storage).
>
> hey, john, i've had incredible luck with intel servers from supermicro
> for general beat-about servers.
>
> just as a quick suggestion, i'd look at this server here.
>
> http://www.supermicro.com/products/system/1U/6017/SYS-6017R-WRF.cfm
>
> with 8-core socket-r cpus, you can have 32 cores and 128gb of memory
> without stretching the budget too much.  the intel i350 nics work fine,
> but for something that hot, i'd get a myircom or intel 10gbe adapter.
>
> this was just whatever came up in 5 minutes.  you might want to look
> at this page here for more options
>
> http://www.supermicro.com/products/nfo/Xeon_X9_E5.cfm?pg=SS
>
> acmemicro.com (fitting, no?) should have the full range of stuff.
>
> - erik

Thanks for the tip; I just looked at acmemicro and spec'd out a
decent-looking 16-core system with 64 GB of RAM for about $4800, so
I'll probably end up doing something like that.



john

[9fans] higher-end compute server recommendations?

[John Floren]

We've got some budget left for hardware, so I'm looking for a server
suitable for running Plan 9, preferably as good as I can get for about
$3000-5000. Buying non-Thinkpad Plan 9 hardware is kind of a
crapshoot, and this isn't just some $100 Atom system, so if any of you
are running something along these lines, please let me know. I'd most
like to see lots of cores and lots of RAM, I don't even want storage
(we've got other methods for storage).

Thanks,


John

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 technical docs and man pages - licensed or "public domain"?

[John Floren]

On Tue, Jul 24, 2012 at 8:31 PM, Andy Elvey  wrote:
> Hi Andrey - thanks for your reply!
>
> On 25/07/12 14:47, andrey mirtchovski wrote:
>
> I'm not a lawyer but I play one in comedy clubs. The first
> implementation of 9p came about long before Plan 9 had a free (as in
> rms) license. Nobody got sued, nobody died, although a few bystanders
> were maimed.
>
> Interesting. It's good to find out a bit of the history behind 9p.
>
> My advice as your lawyer [in comedy] would be to go nuts and do
> whatever you want. The documentation[1] is a good place to start if
> you don't want to look at any source (no license required to see
> that!), and if you want to cover all corner cases, a running Plan 9
> kernel is a good client/server to test against.
>
> 
> 1: http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/man/5/INDEX.html
>
> Thanks for that!  I'll check that page out too.
> Btw - I clicked on the "copyright" link at the bottom, but the link is dead
> - nothing but a 404 page error.
>
> In looking at Tim Newsham's P9.py, he has a comment in the code - "9P
> protocol implementation as documented in plan9 intro(5) and ."
> ( I would likely be even more cautious and avoid looking at any header files
> if possible. )
> Thanks again, Andrey - you've been very helpful!
> - Andy

Just write the code, nobody cares. The manual pages define an
interface, and you're going to implement it. The manual pages are
copyrighted, sure, because they're written works and are automatically
protected by copyright.

Besides the recent Google vs. Oracle fiasco, I can't think of a time
an open-source project had legal problems by writing new code to
implement an API. And, based on a brief reading of
http://www.groklaw.net/pdf3/OraGoogle-1202.pdf, it looks as though a
US judge has ruled that an API is not subject to copyright; if you
implement the 9P API, you should be fine. Also, since you're doing a
free reimplementation of code which is currently available free to
everyone by the creators (Lucent), I have a hard time figuring out
exactly what basis they'd have for a lawsuit.


john

Re: [9fans] Can't "mk CONF=9pcdisk" --> gives error

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jul 23, 2012 at 1:32 AM, Kyle Laracey  wrote:
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 1:48:06 PM UTC-4, John Floren wrote:
>> On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, erik quanstrom 
>> <quans...@quanstro.net> wrote:
>> >> But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that's for
>> >> running with a kfs root, which isn't officially supported any 
>> more. If
>> >> you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days,
>> >> for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil).
>> >
>> > for a terminal, ideally one would be booting off a file server,
>> > and have no local storage.
>> >
>> > but local storage can't be avoided,
>> > as i see it, on a standalone terminal, simple, speedy, safe
>> > would trump fs features.  so kfs can't just be excluded.
>> >
>> > your tradeoffs may vary.  :-)
>> >
>> > - erik
>> >
>>
>> There's certainly reasons for using kfs, but for a new user I'd
>> probably recommend fossil simply because the documentation and most
>> 9fans will assume you're using fossil.
>>
>> But yeah, *best* option is to netboot a 9pc kernel, it's lovely to
>> just hit the power button when you're done working.
>>
>>
>> John
>
> Wow so do you guys actually netbook Plan9? Where's the central
> server? where you work / university or something? Or do you just
> have it set up at your homes? Sounds pretty cool...
>

Here at work, we've got a cpu/auth/file server running fossil and
venti off a Coraid storage appliance, sitting in the machine room. We
netboot some terminals and a 32-core test server from it.

At home, I've got a cpu/auth/file server running on an old Thinkpad,
but I generally just drawterm in since 1. it's a hassle to plug
yourself into the wired network and 2. I rarely have a netbootable
terminal at home.

Netbooting is great, though. You can also cheat and install Plan 9 on
the disk, but then specify that root is from a remote server, meaning
your kernel will boot from the hard drive but after bootup it's
basically idle.


John

Re: [9fans] Can't "mk CONF=9pcdisk" --> gives error

[John Floren]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 10:21 AM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>> But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that's for
>> running with a kfs root, which isn't officially supported any more. If
>> you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days,
>> for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil).
>
> for a terminal, ideally one would be booting off a file server,
> and have no local storage.
>
> but local storage can't be avoided,
> as i see it, on a standalone terminal, simple, speedy, safe
> would trump fs features.  so kfs can't just be excluded.
>
> your tradeoffs may vary.  :-)
>
> - erik
>

There's certainly reasons for using kfs, but for a new user I'd
probably recommend fossil simply because the documentation and most
9fans will assume you're using fossil.

But yeah, *best* option is to netboot a 9pc kernel, it's lovely to
just hit the power button when you're done working.


John

Re: [9fans] Can't "mk CONF=9pcdisk" --> gives error

[John Floren]

On Thu, Jul 19, 2012 at 7:25 AM, Kyle Laracey  wrote:
> On Thursday, July 19, 2012 5:17:47 AM UTC-4, Charles Forsyth wrote:
>> 9pcdisk is the output file, not the configuration file. Also you need to 
>> quote the = because it is special to rc (assignment).
>> Try
>> mk 'CONF=pcdisk'
>>
>>
>> On 19 July 2012 10:07,  <> href="mailto:kalara...@gmail.com"; 
>> target="_blank">kalara...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> `mk CONF=9pcdisk`
>> 
>
> Oh 9pcdisk is the OUTPUT file! That's odd... I'm following the instructions 
> for compiling in this (http://lsub.org/who/nemo/9.pdf)  guide to the plan 9 
> 3ed source code, and on pg 24, it says to do exactly that, mk CONF=9pcdisk. I 
> tried mk 'CONF=pcdisk' and it works. Thanks.
>

But as Federico mentioned, you might not want pcdisk--that's for
running with a kfs root, which isn't officially supported any more. If
you were looking at the 3e guide, that might explain it. These days,
for a terminal, you probably want pcf (pc + fossil).


john

Re: [9fans] plan9port rio and keyboard shortcuts

[John Floren]

On Tue, Jul 10, 2012 at 2:26 AM, Rudolf Sykora  wrote:
> Hello,
>
> In p9p's rio there is a possibility to cycle over windows with left_alt-tab.
> Has anyone thought about / managed to add some more shortcuts, e.g.
> such that would run a program like dmenu?
> (Do you start all your programs from a terminal?)
>
> Thanks
> Ruda
>

I put some additional keyboard functionality into w9wm at one point,
it's not that hard. Look at /usr/local/plan9/src/cmd/rio/key.c:44,
figure out what key presses you want to handle, then do a fork+exec or
whatever floats your boat.

You might also find 9menu handy, although personally I don't like
using it in p9p rio because rio doesn't pass focus clicks through to
the client, meaning I have to click twice (annoying). I just use a
terminal to start programs.

I'm using p9p rio right now, but that's because I cycle through about
a half-dozen window managers a year in search of WM nirvana. I love
using rio on Plan 9, but I'm not entirely convinced it is best-suited
for the way I use Unix. Some day I may write my own WM, but today is
not that day.


john

Re: [9fans] Mini PCs

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 9:38 PM, Nick LaForge  wrote:
>> sadly, the 10/100 ethernet is provided through a flakey usb hub
>
> I think the 'cheap arm dev board' bandwagon will always suffer in this
> regard, since the phones these SoCs were designed for don't even come
> close to needing gbe
>

Guruplug?

Re: [9fans] dejavu sans

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 2:16 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
> On Mon Jun 11 17:07:15 EDT 2012, mirtchov...@gmail.com wrote:
>> looking for more pleasing fonts I came across dejavu which are
>> downloadable from http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/Download
>>
> [...]
>>
>> coverage is so-so, but there are latin/greek/cyrillic ttfs available
>> too. i didn't try them out.
>
> dejavu sans is pretty good.
>
> it really is a trick finding decent coverage and a good looking font.
> good coverage seems to be more important as folks assume unicode.
>
> i've been using cyberbit, but it has some holes.  it's killer feature is
> very good hinting at smaller sizes.
>
> i keep meaning to teach ttf2subf to break off the subfont at unicode
> block boundaries to make stiching together fonts easier.
>
> - erik
>

Vera (I think from your contrib) works very well for me, I find that
it looks good and has good enough coverage for all my uses.

The biggest challenge with Plan 9 fonts is getting the heights right;
often converted ttfs will have the bottom of "g" and a lot of the
non-ASCII characters cut off at either top or bottom.


john

Re: [9fans] Mini PCs

[John Floren]

On Mon, Jun 11, 2012 at 1:14 PM, Winston Weinert  wrote:
> On Sun, 2012-06-10 at 18:19 -0400, Comeau At9Fans wrote:
>> * Raspberry Pi
>> * Cotton Candy
>> * Mele A1000
>> * MK802
>
> Some other _pricier_ products to consider (and a larger variety of
> integrated components):
> * Beagleboard
> * Beaglebone
> * Pandaboard
> * Pico-ITX formfactor x86 motherboard
>

Some of these should work already; /sys/src/9/omap/beagle seems to
indicate that you can already boot a beagleboard, for instance. As for
anything not based on the supported SoCs, well, until people stop
sitting on ass saying "boy that would be a nice terminal" and actually
start PORTING the damn thing, it'll never be more than Yet Another
120-message 9fans Thread.

I got the Efika Smarttop through quite a bit of the early boot over
the course of an afternoon, before finally getting pissed off at
having to re-write an SD card every time I iterated the kernel. It
shouldn't be *too* hard to get a minimally functional system, the code
in /sys/src/9 is quite good. Oh, there's another thing, for the love
of god don't buy a system that can't netboot, it's just not worth it.

Or we could ignore all these and, in grand 9fans tradition, start
talking about a port to some hardware platform that's been dead for
over 5 years. SPARC64 et al are sorta played out by now, but I've got
a PDP-11 just sitting around...


john

Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox -> Clone

[John Floren]

Some people would love warp-to-location for Undo/Redo, some I'm sure
would hate it. Some people can't stand that up/down arrow keys scroll
the page rather than move the cursor (I'm not one). Acme might benefit
from a config file in $home/lib/acme.conf or something. Yeah yeah,
Plan 9 doesn't use a lot of config files, but Acme is one of the most
complex bits of software we've got. This could allow the addition of
new functionality (like a switch to make Undo/Redo warp-to-location)
while still maintaining Curmudgeon Mode (triggered by not having an
acme.conf).

I'm too used to Acme (with all its quirks) to try putting that sort of
thing in, though :)


john

On Thu, May 31, 2012 at 11:05 AM, steve  wrote:
> Aww, leave sam alone, he served us well for (so) many
> years,  zerox is part of his baroque charm.
>
> if where to change any text, which i wouldn't, it would
> be snarf, which always draws comments from the uninitiated.
>
> the one real change that i think would be worthwhile
> would be a warp-to-location on undo or redo. i occasionally
> want to undo a little of the changes i have made, but if these
> are not in the current view its not easy to judge how many steps to undo.
>
> -Steve
>
>

Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox -> Clone

[John Floren]

On Wed, May 30, 2012 at 9:15 AM, Calvin Morrison  wrote:
> On 30 May 2012 11:25, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>>> Or Dop (short for Doppelgänger).
>>
>> dop.  dop!  make it stop!
>> i can't not
>> will not
>> have a dop!
>>
>> - erik
>>
>
> copy?
>

That surely won't be confused with the "Snarf" functionality at all

Re: [9fans] Heresy alert, Zerox -> Clone

[John Floren]

Just when you thought every bikeshed had been painted...

On Tue, May 29, 2012 at 11:30 PM, Lucio De Re  wrote:
> (Trolling unintentional)
>
> The misspelling of Xerox in Acme has bugged me for a long time.  I
> want to suggest that we change it to Clone.  Votes?
>
> ++L
>
>

[9fans] public accounts for interested folks at 9srv.net

[John Francis Lee]

From: Anthony Sorace 
Subject: Governance question???
Date: Tue, 15 May 2012 12:08:44 -0400

I wrote a couple of emails to a...@9srv.net but never got a reply ... did I 
misunderstand what seemed to me to be an invitation, or did my email or 
the reply get treated as spam, or have I failed the silent screening?


> 9srv.net (which I run) provides public accounts for interested folks. 
> See the wiki for instructions on making a request. It's not as
> well-developed as tip9ug was, and we've got about a dozen users (same 
> caveat as above), but it's growing. I would like to do something like 
> tip9ug's faces page, but haven't gotten there yet.

> Anthony

--
"This message may have been intercepted and read by U.S. government 
agencies including the FBI, CIA, and NSA and/or the present government 
of Thailand without notice or warrant or knowledge of sender or recipient."


John Francis Lee
246/3 Thanon Kaew Wai
Mueang Chiangrai 57000
Thailand

Re: [9fans] 9front: Support for encrypted partitions (in development, needs documentation)

[John Floren]

9front has a mailing list, that's probably the best place to ask these
kind of things.

On Fri, May 18, 2012 at 8:50 PM, Burton Samograd
 wrote:
> The features list of 9front has the subject line.  How in development
> is it, and could anybody give a documentation/HOWTO on getting it
> working (if it does)?
>
> --
> Burton Samograd
>

Re: [9fans] Reading gmail

[John Floren]

Secstore really helps here.

john

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 11:41 PM, Federico Benavento
 wrote:
> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/mail_configuration/index.html
>
> factotum doesn't have your key, try
> % auth/fgui &
> % /bin/upas/smtp -as net!smtp.gmail.com dest@dom
>
> a window will pop up and ask for your pass...
>
> you'll have to add the smtp value for your network in your /lib/ndb/local or 
> hardcode it in /mail/lib/remotemail
> follow the wiki, btw you should have copied rewrite.gateway over rewrite
>
> ---
> Federico Benavento
> benave...@gmail.com
>
>
>
> On May 15, 2012, at 2:37 AM, 9 9 wrote:
>
>>>
>>> Any help on sending mails using gmail? 
>>> http://www.plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/gmail_on_plan9/index.html 
>>> suggests that it should be a simple matter, but I get
>>>
>>> Mail from 'glenda'
>>> to '9...@...net'
>>> failed with error 'Invalid address'.
>>> if I try to post with that modification in my remotemail. My google-fu does 
>>> not seem to help :(
>>
>>
>> My attempts so far:
>>
>> cpu% cat /sys/lib/tls/smtp
>> x509 sha1=F392AEB428FE64036FE155ED719E5FF688905A57
>>
>> cpu% ls | /bin/upas/smtp -d -p -a -u 9...@vrtra.net -h
>> vayavyam.comcast.net tcp!smtp.gmail.com!smtp 9...@vrtra.net 9...@vrtra.net
>> sending /net/dns 'smtp.gmail.com mx'
>> dns: dns: resource does not exist; negrcode 0
>> mxdial trying /net/tcp!smtp.gmail.com!smtp
>> 220 mx.google.com ESMTP d2sm687657pbw.39
>> EHLO vayavyam
>> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [24.20.128.212]
>> 250-SIZE 35882577
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-STARTTLS
>> 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> STARTTLS
>> 220 2.0.0 Ready to start TLS
>> EHLO vayavyam
>> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [24.20.128.212]
>> 250-SIZE 35882577
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH
>> 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> Tue May 15 05:21:31 PDT 2012 connect to tcp!smtp.gmail.com!smtp:
>> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [24.20.128.212]
>> 250-SIZE 35882577
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH
>> 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>> QUIT
>> 221 2.0.0 closing connection d2sm687657pbw.39
>>
>> cpu% cat /sys/log/smtp.fail
>> vayavyam May 15 05:34:10 ping to tcp!smtp.gmail.com!smtp failed:
>> 250-mx.google.com at your service, [24.20.128.212]
>> 250-SIZE 35882577
>> 250-8BITMIME
>> 250-AUTH LOGIN PLAIN XOAUTH
>> 250 ENHANCEDSTATUSCODES
>>
>> I tried with same results wih ports 465 and 587 instead of smtp. With
>> 465, it timesout instead.
>>
>> any hints?
>>
>> Also, acme does not even seem to invoke the remote mail? (I see no log
>> messages in /sys/log/smtp* when I get the error messages in acme)
>>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Reading gmail

[John Floren]

On Mon, May 14, 2012 at 8:08 PM,   wrote:
>> Is there any way to read gmail from plan9?  Over SSL imap
>> maybe? I searched for imapfs but came up with nothing.
>
> Mount your gmail account via IMAP:
>
>        upas/fs -f /imaps/imap.gmail.com/usern...@gmail.com
>
> The first time you try this, upas/fs will complain:
>
>        upas/fs: opening /imaps/imap.gmail.com/usern...@gmail.com: 
> imap.gmail.com/imaps:server certificate HASH not recognized
>
> Add the provided certificate to /sys/lib/tls/mail, like so:
>
>        x509 sha1=HASH
>
> Run the upas/fs line again, and this time gmail via IMAP will
> be mounted in /mail/fs, accessible to the standard mail tools.
>
> -sl
>

If you have a large number of messages, Erik's "nupas" is useful; IIRC
it will cache messages locally so you don't have to download a ton of
headers each time you start upas.

However I've found that with both old upas and nupas, there are some
messages that make them choke. Sadly I can't remember what triggered
it.

john

Re: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!

[John Floren]

I've got one of those with the 1400x1050 display, it runs Plan 9 well,
looks great, and has a fantastic screen.

john

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 12:18 PM,   wrote:
> http://www.thinkwiki.org/wiki/Category:X61_Tablet
>
> -sl
>

Re: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!

[John Floren]

A Thinkpad X60 or X61 works great and is very light, too.

john

On Wed, May 9, 2012 at 8:04 AM, Burton Samograd
 wrote:
> Along these lines, is there a recommendation for the best laptop for running 
> plan9?  Ie. Native video, working Ethernet/wifi, no hassles with HW 
> compatibility, etc.  One every system I've tried there's always been 
> something that has gone wrong, so I'm hoping that the wisdom of this list 
> will direct me towards and fully working version, even if it's not the most 
> modern technology.
>
> Thank you.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: 9fans-boun...@9fans.net [mailto:9fans-boun...@9fans.net] On Behalf Of 
> Vincent Zhao
> Sent: Wednesday, May 09, 2012 8:44 AM
> To: 9fans@9fans.net
> Subject: [9fans] I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9!!!
>
> I will buy laptop pre-installed with plan9, can my dream come true?
>
>
> This e-mail, including accompanying communications and attachments, is 
> strictly confidential and only for the intended recipient. Any retention, use 
> or disclosure not expressly authorised by Markit is prohibited. This email is 
> subject to all waivers and other terms at the following link: 
> http://www.markit.com/en/about/legal/email-disclaimer.page
>
> Please visit http://www.markit.com/en/about/contact/contact-us.page? for 
> contact information on our offices worldwide.
>

Re: [9fans] Starting a blog on plan 9

[John Floren]

On Tue, May 8, 2012 at 2:34 AM, IainWS  wrote:
> Hi there! I am trying to get involved more with plan 9 but having some
> trouble finding resources on it that are all in one place. I have
> started a blog so that I can add resources to make things more simple
> for new users, and for the community in general. What do people think
> about this?
>
> You can find the link to this here:
>
> http://plan9docs.wordpress.com/
>
> Any feedback would be much appreciated.
>

Could you elaborate on your choice of using "sam -d"? It does make
things easier to translate into a textual blog format, without having
to worry about the windows. On the other hand, without the graphical
interface, sam is really just a super-enhanced ed(1), which is
certainly useful in itself but (in my opinion) not as convenient.

You might also consider making some youtube videos if you feel
confident enough; I made a few some years back and they were generally
well-received by the random youtubers who found them. Just please make
sure the things you're talking about are accurate--spreading bad
information about Plan 9 is worse than doing nothing :)


john

Re: [9fans] new arm port: teg2

[John Floren]

Great! Graphics support at this point, or is it still in the cpu server stage?

john

On Tue, May 1, 2012 at 3:30 PM,   wrote:
> After you pull, you should see a new directory,
> /sys/src/9/teg2.  From the _announce file:
>
> This is a preliminary Plan 9 port to the Compulab Trimslice,
> containing a Tegra 2 SoC: a dual-core, (truly) dual-issue 1GHz
> Cortex-A9 v7a-architecture ARM system, *and* it comes in a case.  VFP
> 3 floating-point hardware is present, but 5l doesn't yet generate
> those instructions.  This is the first multiprocessor ARM port we've
> done, and much of the code should be reusable in future ports.  There
> are still things to be done but it can run both processors and is
> believed to have adequate kernel support for VFP 3 floating-point.
>

Re: [9fans] Source Code.

[John Floren]

Good luck! The kernel is pretty readable and small enough to really
sit down and know what all the files are doing. Be warned that some of
the C is going to be in Plan 9's particular idiom, but in general you
can learn good practices from it. If you want to learn about writing
Plan 9 programs in general, check out the stuff under /sys/src/cmd.

John

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Isaac Cortés  wrote:
> Thanks a lot  to everyone, I'm planing (my english sucks too) to learn about
> O.S. and C with this project, 'cause I'm kind of Hipster Student
> Informatic's
>
>
> 2012/4/27 John Floren 
>>
>> On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg 
>> wrote:
>> > Download the installation image from the website, gunzip, mount the
>> > resulting ISO image, then look in /sys/src.
>>
>> Easier option: grab
>> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/extra/plan9.tar.bz2, untar it, look
>> under plan9/sys/src/9 for the kernel source.
>>
>> john
>>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
>
> “But JavaSchools also fail to train the brains of kids to be adept, agile,
> and flexible enough to do good software design (and I don’t mean OO
> “design”, where you spend countless hours rewriting your code to rejiggle
> your object hierarchy, or you fret about faux “problems” like has-a vs.
> is-a). You need training to think of things at multiple levels of
> abstraction simultaneously, and that kind of thinking is exactly what you
> need to design great software architecture.”
>
>
>
>

Re: [9fans] Source Code.

[John Floren]

On Fri, Apr 27, 2012 at 1:25 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg  wrote:
> Download the installation image from the website, gunzip, mount the resulting 
> ISO image, then look in /sys/src.

Easier option: grab
http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sources/extra/plan9.tar.bz2, untar it, look
under plan9/sys/src/9 for the kernel source.

john

Re: [9fans] AMD64 system

[John Floren]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 6:11 PM, Strake  wrote:
> On 25/04/2012, John Floren  wrote:
>> Through the magic of compression, and other things like realizing that
>> you don't have to redraw the *entire* screen 60 times a second when
>> displaying a mostly-static desktop.
>> You just send the chunks that have
>> changed, *when* they change.
>
> And when watching full-screen video, or playing full-screen 3D games?
> Then it must redraw nearly the whole screen, nearly every frame.

I thought you wanted this to do your uber computations, not watch movies?

And if you have full-screen 3D games for Plan 9, share!

>> I'm not that familiar with how the Plan 9 graphics system works, but
>> we're not talking about hardware vs software OpenGL. There is no
>> OpenGL to be had here.
>
> Not yet. It seems to be in the works:
> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/wiki/plan9/todo/index.html
>
>> This is writing bits into a framebuffer and
>> having them appear on the screen. It's pretty damn fast to write
>> things to main memory.
>
> Yes, which works iff the video output is local. This I wrote in
> response to the idea that I make one machine a 64-bit devoted CPU
> server, which I doubt would be appropriate for my usage case and
> available hardware.
>

You still haven't told us your usage case. Wild speculation about what
is possible, impossible, desirable, necessary, etc. is cheap on 9fans,
I'm sure you've seen that.

john

Re: [9fans] git and (p9p) acme

[John Floren]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:46 PM, Lyndon Nerenberg  wrote:
>
> On 2012-04-25, at 1:36 PM, Russ Cox wrote:
>
>> What is not obvious about what 'sam file' does?
>
> Plugging 'sam file' into a script does not launch the editor with the 
> specified file in a window for the user to edit, and then save out.

Works for me... this is what I do when writing commit messages in hg.
Sure, you have to go into the right-button menu and open the file
window, but it's 2 mouse clicks and I find sam a lot more convenient
than acme for this kind of quick edit.

What behavior are you seeing?

john

Re: [9fans] AMD64 system

[John Floren]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 1:30 PM, Strake  wrote:
> On 25/04/2012, John Floren  wrote:
>> There are 3 options:
>>
>> 1. Suck it up and use the 64-bit system that is available
>> 2. Write drivers for your hardware (this is the comedy option)
>> 3. Complain on 9fans for a while before eventually giving up (this is
>> the popular option)
> 4. Keep to Linux and curse the world in wrath.
>

I forgot about #4. We almost all end up going with #4 at some point,
to a greater or lesser extent.

> I'd shut up if no one _asked_ me about it, but some did.

You still haven't clarified what exactly you want to do with your
64-bit system, besides win dicksize wars. Reasons for using a 64-bit
system include, for example, *needing* more than 4 GB of RAM. If you
want to do stuff like Ron and Nemo have done, where you stick your
entire filesystem in 64 GB of memory or so, then yeah it's important.
On the other hand, I've never had a Plan 9 system with more than 4 GB
of RAM, excepting our NIX test box, and everything has been fine--you
don't need a lot for this OS!

>> I don't even know what you're attempting to imply with that
>> calculation at the end, though. What does the onboard graphics card
>> have to do with network bandwidth?
>
> It doesn't; however graphics are drawn, whether in hardware or
> software, they must be sent to terminal.
>
>> If you run a big drawterm/cpu
>> window, it won't be that high of a data rate

Through the magic of compression, and other things like realizing that
you don't have to redraw the *entire* screen 60 times a second when
displaying a mostly-static desktop. You just send the chunks that have
changed, *when* they change.

>> and it won't use the
>> graphics card anyway.
>
> Then it will be slow. Software graphics are slow.
>

I'm not that familiar with how the Plan 9 graphics system works, but
we're not talking about hardware vs software OpenGL. There is no
OpenGL to be had here. This is writing bits into a framebuffer and
having them appear on the screen. It's pretty damn fast to write
things to main memory.

john

Re: [9fans] AMD64 system

[John Floren]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:57 PM, Strake  wrote:
> On 25/04/2012, John Floren  wrote:
>> If you're doing cryptography and physical simulation, computation
>> bound stuff, why not set up a 64-bit CPU server? I've got one at work,
>> all you should need to do is get the 64-bit binaries on your
>> fileserver.
>
> Then I have a CPU server with very nice on-board sound, and powerful
> graphics card, both idle, the latter since I have no other machine
> that can take it, I have no driver, and even if I had,
> (32 b/pixel)(1920x1080 pixel)(60.0 Hz) = 4 Gb/s > network data rate = 1 Gb/s.
>

There are 3 options:

1. Suck it up and use the 64-bit system that is available
2. Write drivers for your hardware (this is the comedy option)
3. Complain on 9fans for a while before eventually giving up (this is
the popular option)

I don't even know what you're attempting to imply with that
calculation at the end, though. What does the onboard graphics card
have to do with network bandwidth? If you run a big drawterm/cpu
window, it won't be that high of a data rate, and it won't use the
graphics card anyway.

john

Re: [9fans] AMD64 system

[John Floren]

On Wed, Apr 25, 2012 at 12:09 PM, Strake  wrote:
> On 25/04/2012, Matthew Veety  wrote:
>> On Apr 25, 2012 2:27 PM, "Lyndon Nerenberg"  wrote:
>>> On 2012-04-25, at 11:04 AM, Strake wrote:
>>> > Four billion is not enough.
>>>
>>> Not enough what?  This cat's curiosity is raised.
>>>
>>
>> Numbers obviously.
>
> This. A limit on cryptography, physical simulation, ...
> which are computation-bound, so bignum arithmetic would be slow.
>
> Also logical memory addresses, timestamps, ...
>
> Oh, and 8 registers are far too few.
>

If you're doing cryptography and physical simulation, computation
bound stuff, why not set up a 64-bit CPU server? I've got one at work,
all you should need to do is get the 64-bit binaries on your
fileserver.

John

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

[John Floren]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 9:07 PM, John Floren  wrote:
> On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM,   wrote:
>>> I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself,
>>> using a child of Inferno.
>>
>> Yeah, sound like interesting.
>> Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now?
>> because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this.
>>
>> Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all).
>>
>> Kenji
>>
>>
>
> I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and
> some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite
> the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with
> running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I
> can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the
> setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure.
>
> John

I guess the thing I was aiming for but forgot to type was, "Yes, you
can still try out Octopus, I set it up under Linux for fun about a
month ago and it worked just fine"

Re: [9fans] nix at lsub

[John Floren]

On Tue, Apr 17, 2012 at 5:26 PM,   wrote:
>> I was thinking along the lines of http://lsub.org/ls/octopus.html, myself,
>> using a child of Inferno.
>
> Yeah, sound like interesting.
> Can I try this octopus on some of the PC still now?
> because I didn't do it, and have no idea of this.
>
> Whe I tried inferno, I god bad feeling of its gui (sorry all).
>
> Kenji
>
>

I've run Octopus a little bit. It's got an interesting UI (Omero) and
some of the features are pretty cool--I ended up being able to cite
the Octopus paper in my master's thesis :) I had some trouble with
running it at first (O/mero wouldn't start properly, unfortunately I
can't recall the error, I think it's in the 9fans archive), but the
setup scripts make it pretty simple to configure.

John

Re: [9fans] test

[John Floren]

Obvious solution, switch to reading comp.os.plan9 and sending replies to
the list :-)
On Apr 16, 2012 11:48 AM,  wrote:

> can't receive mail from 9fans anymore. but can i
> still send?
>
> --
> cinap
>
>

Re: [9fans] vim and utf-8

[John Floren]

On Sat, Apr 14, 2012 at 4:56 AM, hiro <23h...@googlemail.com> wrote:
> bad troll
>

relax

Re: [9fans] vim and utf-8

[John Floren]

On Fri, Apr 13, 2012 at 2:41 PM, Troy Cauble  wrote:
> When using vim, Greek characters are shown followed by a
> garbage character, usually Esc., sometimes immediately after
> the Greek char, sometimes later in the line.  Editing that line
> after the Greek char, positioning is one-off.
>
> encoding, termencoding, and fileencoding all show as utf-8
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Also, how do I change the font used by vim.  It is not using $font.
>
> Thanks,
> -troy
>

I have a solution, but you're not going to like it :)

john

[9fans] Google command line client

[John Floren]

Turns out Google command line client
(http://code.google.com/p/googlecl/) works on Plan 9 just fine. All
you need is python (from fgb's contrib, or if you want to risk
potentially out-of-date code I've got a tarball at
http://jfloren.net/contrib/packages/lang/python/root.tgz, just untar
it and copy the files under root/ to the appropriate places)

First, download the gdata client library version 2.0.14
(http://gdata-python-client.googlecode.com/files/gdata-2.0.14.tar.gz).
This is an older version, but it's needed for compatibility reasons.
Untar it, then run "python setup.py install".

Next, download the actual command line client
(http://googlecl.googlecode.com/files/googlecl-0.9.13.tar.gz as of
today), untar it, and once again run "python setup.py install".

You can then run /sys/lib/python/bin/google, which will give you a
prompt. For kicks, you can enter something like 'docs edit --title
"testing" --editor sam' to make and edit a quick text document. The
first time, it will prompt you for an account name and then give you a
link to authorize the client. I couldn't get the authorization link to
work in abaco, I had to enter it in Firefox, but there may be a way to
get abaco to work.

You can also do something like '/sys/lib/python/bin/google calendar
list' from an rc prompt, so whipping up a guide file for Acme will be
very easy.



John

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[John Floren]

Kickstarter works because the people on Kickstarter are interested in
whatever the project is producing. A book, a video game, other
products. Plan 9 has a small community and an even smaller number of
people who actually use it. Unfortunately, I don't think there's
enough money there to pay for 1 GSoC-equivalent student, especially
considering that the project may turn out to be something the
contributors have very little interest in.

GSoC works great for Google because they have the money & organization
to do it. It builds good-will for them and helps them scout potential
employees while also (ideally) improving open source projects. The
only thing 9fans has out of that list is the interest in improving an
open source project :)

John

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:39 PM, Joseph Stewart
 wrote:
> I guess I didn't realize there was pay involved. How about a kick-starter
> approach? Think it'd work?
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:20 PM, John Floren  wrote:
>>
>> I think being able to pay the students is what really makes GSoC work.
>> It adds an additional dimension that makes it a lot harder to just
>> say, "Oh, I'm bored with this, I quit".
>>
>> John
>>
>> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Stewart
>>  wrote:
>> > So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack
>> > overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of
>> > decentralized
>> > nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own.
>> >
>> > Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing
>> > is
>> > kinda what open source is all about.
>> >
>> > I guess what I'm saying is "could we do this on our own"? Maybe not
>> > having
>> > Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe
>> > not?
>> >
>> > -j
>> >
>> >
>> > On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
>> >> > coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel
>> >> > bad.
>> >> > I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same
>> >> > players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> thanks, ron.  that's reason enough to try again next year.
>> >>
>> >> - erik
>> >>
>> >
>>
>

Re: [9fans] Plan 9 rejected from GSoC 2012

[John Floren]

I think being able to pay the students is what really makes GSoC work.
It adds an additional dimension that makes it a lot harder to just
say, "Oh, I'm bored with this, I quit".

John

On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 3:06 PM, Joseph Stewart
 wrote:
> So this all makes me wonder why some social aggregation group (aka stack
> overflow or reddit/programming) or even just a big group of decentralized
> nerds couldn't just do a variant of GSoC on our own.
>
> Lining up mentors and mentees particularly w/o big biz or school backing is
> kinda what open source is all about.
>
> I guess what I'm saying is "could we do this on our own"? Maybe not having
> Google behind the effort takes some of the air out of it... but maybe not?
>
> -j
>
>
> On Sun, Mar 18, 2012 at 1:35 PM, erik quanstrom 
> wrote:
>>
>> On Sun Mar 18 16:32:12 EDT 2012, rminn...@gmail.com wrote:
>> > coreboot got rejected too and we had 5 years in a row. Don't feel bad.
>> > I think they're trying to make sure that they don't get the same
>> > players year after year, which is a good idea IMHO.
>> >
>>
>> thanks, ron.  that's reason enough to try again next year.
>>
>> - erik
>>
>

Re: [9fans] GSoC 2012

[John Floren]

On Wed, Mar 14, 2012 at 12:03 PM,   wrote:
> May I suggest to add an "easy" project to the list: review Plan9
> installation.
>
> The "howto install without" (explaining how to create a Plan9 realm
> from another OS if the CD can not be used) that I posted a while
> ago did not attract a lot of attention. But dealing with the install,
> I saw many details that prevent a more versatile installation.
>
> And fdisk(8) has still to be fixed (on the stack but too many things
> going on with KerGIS or kerTeX for me).
>
> From what I have seen, it is a light project.

I agree that the install situation could use some work--it can be a
little bit odd if you aren't installing from a CD like a good boy, or
if you try to build an ISO from somewhere that *isn't* Bell Labs. It's
actually pretty straightforward to modify, though; it didn't take me
very long to get an iso building and figure out how the installer
works.

I've already done some tweaking with this in Nix, moving the inst/
programs to /rc/bin/inst, which makes it possible to easily start an
installation when booted from the CD with option 2, "boot plan 9 from
this cd", eliminating the need for the 9pcflop kernel and its limited
root environment.

I'd worry that doing an overhaul of the installation process is more
of a 1-2 week project, although it would be useful and a very nice
simple task.

John

Re: [9fans] hardware device (...)

[John Floren]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 3:09 PM, erik quanstrom  wrote:
>> folks don't write code until they want it. until now, nobody has cared
>> enough about cameras or scanners or printers (though i thought ethernet
>> connected printers work more or less (but i've never printed anything))
>> to do anything. now you care, maybe you'll write them. the beauty of plan
>> 9 is that it's easy to write drivers if you have decent documentation.
>> which you will for at least some of the devices you listed.
>>
>> or maybe some common user-oriented device support like this would make a
>> good Google Summer of Code project?
>
> you'd do much better in gsoc if you limited your scope.
>
> - erik
>

I'd also like to recommend that projects take place outside the kernel
when possible. It's a lot easier to do things in userland on a single
Plan 9 box (or VM), while I've found that kernel work is best done
with at least a CPU server, a "victim" PC with serial output so we can
catch crash messages, and then another box where you can sit to
actually write code--a much more complex thing for a student with no
hardware budget to set up!

John

Re: [9fans] GSoC application & ideas page

[John Floren]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 12:05 AM, Peter A. Cejchan  wrote:
>> It would be nice to have a widget library including buttons, drop-down 
>> menus, multiple-line text entry, radio buttons, scrollbars, etc.
>
> Oh, no!!!
> ++pac
>

Oddly enough, that idea does not come with the rider, "And then force
Peter to use the library exclusively". I somehow doubt that acme will
suddenly turn into an MS Word-esque monstrosity simply because someone
has created a successor to libpanel.

John

Re: [9fans] For first ONLY a laser printer in this resource meaning

[John Floren]

On Tue, Mar 13, 2012 at 11:14 AM, V-CA ! Christoph Paschke
 wrote:
> @Nemo
>
> Ok, I just want start with a very easy constellation:
>
> 1.) I installed octopus on top of my MacMini (newest version) at my
> televison in living room, he running also Mac-Server
> 2.) I got the terminal started at an older MacBook
> 3.) I have a HP Envy 100 WLAN Inkjet printer / Scanner integrated in WLAN,
> working at all my Macs
> 4.) Now I want to write a limbo program to print a page at that printer
>
> As I understand you, I cannot nativly run it by the P9 idea of device = file
> ... because the HP printer itself has no firmware to support such file based
> streaming, right?
>
> Therefore I need root through to mac a Mac sytem call to can adress the
> printer.
>
> As I understand, this is NOT the idea of a good Plan 9 / Limbo program? In
> my understanding: If I now write a small program that prints out for example
> a list of addresses, I need communicate with my printer in a streaming way
> and not by system calls, right?
>
> If I'm wrong, could you explain me, how I get my printer working.
>
> And, if it is to difficult with this HP printer and the system only can
> support old Epson ESC/P code for needle printer, just exlain me how I get
> that ESC/P printer working in the "Plan 9 ressource way"?
>
> For me it is most important that I can realize what is promised from that
> operting system according "all resources, also devices are a file"
> and that this idea is more than a theory!
>
> You understand what I ask?
>
> - Chris

So, here's what we did when we wanted to make Android
hardware/services accessible to Inferno--and this should work for you
too.

All of your Macs can print to the printer, presumably by using a
command something like "lp -d ". That's nice,
because you now have a reasonably simple abstracted interface to the
printer, which allows you to submit print jobs, check the queue, etc.

Now, write a device in Inferno which presents files like /dev/print or
whatever you want to call them, and executes commands on the Mac side
to actually do the work. Thus, if you write a file into /dev/print,
your driver should do something like run "lp" and feed it the file on
standard input.

You can take a look at
https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/src/75008e7031e1/emu/Android/devwifi.c,
specifically the wifiinit function, to see one crude example. The idea
there was to initialize Android's wifi device when the Inferno devwifi
device is initialized. Another example of translating actions in
Inferno into actions on the host system is
https://bitbucket.org/floren/inferno/src/75008e7031e1/emu/Android/devphone.c,
where we took commands written to the device files and translated them
into appropriate RIL (Android's radio daemon) commands to send out
over a socket on the Android side.

Once you figure out how the devices work in Inferno, it should be
pretty easy to write code that will link your file operations in
Inferno to the printing framework on the Macs.


John