Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
2009/3/20 ron minnich : > On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, James Tomaschke > wrote: >> I would suggest the compiler as well, students are probably more familiar >> with compiler concepts and it will probably be easier to mentor. In the >> future, the porting work can be distributed over the community anyways. > > Sorry, I was not clear: I only meant a mips-64 compiler port. I think so. Who wants to mentor? I'd be up for getting one of these puppies if anybody wants to do it (though they are rather expensive considering no US distributor... harrumph) and mentoring to some degree, but I'm more likely to want to help out with (and probably a better contact for) 9vx work than that. --dho
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
I would suggest the compiler as well, students are probably more familiar with compiler concepts and it will probably be easier to mentor. In the future, the porting work can be distributed over the community anyways. ron minnich wrote: Is a mips-64 port a reasonable GSOC project? The person doing it could not come in cold, but there is a starting point it seems. In spite of my earlier suggestion, I have to agree with Russ. Gcc and its utils are a daily headache for me, I'd rather just get a mips-64 compiler port first. ron
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 4:52 PM, James Tomaschke wrote: > I would suggest the compiler as well, students are probably more familiar > with compiler concepts and it will probably be easier to mentor. In the > future, the porting work can be distributed over the community anyways. Sorry, I was not clear: I only meant a mips-64 compiler port. rno
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
Is a mips-64 port a reasonable GSOC project? The person doing it could not come in cold, but there is a starting point it seems. In spite of my earlier suggestion, I have to agree with Russ. Gcc and its utils are a daily headache for me, I'd rather just get a mips-64 compiler port first. ron
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 12:15 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: > wouldn't it just be easier to use 32-bit compatability mode > (http://www.mips.com/products/processors/architectures/mips64/) > for bootstrapping using vc? that's how i started playing. iru
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
ron is suggesting is that with minimal effort the plan 9 kernel could be made to compile using gcc instead of the standard plan 9 compilers. he's right. erik's point is that once you have a kernel up, you still need to give it executables to run. this either requires porting the standard compilers to the target machine or somehow making the entire source tree compile under gcc, which would require significantly more effort than the kernel. he's also right. it all depends on what you want from plan 9. for me, the fleet plan 9 compilers save me so much time and make me so much more productive compared to waiting on gcc that on balance i'd rather spend the time to port the compiler than switch to gcc. ron is already using gcc to generate binaries to run on plan 9, though, and his use of plan 9 depends much more heavily on the "plays well with networks" aspect than it does on the fast compilation. and maybe there's no one to write the new compiler. there, using gcc might make sense. russ
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
On Fri, Mar 20, 2009 at 8:15 AM, erik quanstrom wrote: > i'm really missing something. what executables does this > kernel run? how are they generated? one of us is. I'll let it drop here because it might be me. ron
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
> Let me say it differently. The way in which the plan 9 kernel code was > changed to be gcc-compilable as part of the vx32 kernel might provide > some hints as to how to change a whole plan 9 kernel. The point being, > it is not impossible to get a gcc-compilable plan 9 kernel. We used to > talk about this at LANL all the time: we called it the "evil project". > (This idea predates vx32 but it was not my idea; I will let the evil > person behind the evil project identify himself). This change would > remove "have to port&test&validate&fix&validate&... the C compiler > first" as a barrier to entry on new CPUs. > > see src/vx32 in the vx32 tree. i'm really missing something. what executables does this kernel run? how are they generated? wouldn't it just be easier to use 32-bit compatability mode (http://www.mips.com/products/processors/architectures/mips64/) for bootstrapping using vc? - erik
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:43 PM, erik quanstrom wrote: >> so, here's a silghtly controversial (maybe) suggestion. Maybe my >> memory is wrong, but i believe the vx32 kernel is gcc-compiled. There >> is gcc for this CPU. It might be easier to start from the vx32 kernel >> and gcc to target this machine, rather than do a 64-bit MIPS port of >> the plan 9 C compiler. Or not: a few of the folks on this list could >> probably retarget in very short order (I'm not one of the,however). > > vx32 relies on x86 segment registers. Let me say it differently. The way in which the plan 9 kernel code was changed to be gcc-compilable as part of the vx32 kernel might provide some hints as to how to change a whole plan 9 kernel. The point being, it is not impossible to get a gcc-compilable plan 9 kernel. We used to talk about this at LANL all the time: we called it the "evil project". (This idea predates vx32 but it was not my idea; I will let the evil person behind the evil project identify himself). This change would remove "have to port&test&validate&fix&validate&... the C compiler first" as a barrier to entry on new CPUs. see src/vx32 in the vx32 tree. ron
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
tim weiss started work on kencc mips64 port and I started (w/o the compiler) playing with Plan 9 on mips64 based on the old carrera port. the stupid initial code is at http://src.oitobits.net/9sgi On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 8:24 PM, ron minnich wrote: > On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Anthony Sorace wrote: >> i was looking at this a week or two ago, trying to find an ARM or MIPS >> laptop to play with. my first question was whether the "missing" parts >> of the MIPS instruction set are things that our compilers currently >> generate; SoC (oh, and my day job) ramped up before i could find the >> list of missing instructions. any idea? >> >> getting quotes or delivery in the US seemed tricky, too. > > so, here's a silghtly controversial (maybe) suggestion. Maybe my > memory is wrong, but i believe the vx32 kernel is gcc-compiled. There > is gcc for this CPU. It might be easier to start from the vx32 kernel > and gcc to target this machine, rather than do a 64-bit MIPS port of > the plan 9 C compiler. Or not: a few of the folks on this list could > probably retarget in very short order (I'm not one of the,however). > > ron > > -- iru
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
> so, here's a silghtly controversial (maybe) suggestion. Maybe my > memory is wrong, but i believe the vx32 kernel is gcc-compiled. There > is gcc for this CPU. It might be easier to start from the vx32 kernel > and gcc to target this machine, rather than do a 64-bit MIPS port of > the plan 9 C compiler. Or not: a few of the folks on this list could > probably retarget in very short order (I'm not one of the,however). vx32 relies on x86 segment registers. - erik
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
On Thu, Mar 19, 2009 at 4:14 PM, Anthony Sorace wrote: > i was looking at this a week or two ago, trying to find an ARM or MIPS > laptop to play with. my first question was whether the "missing" parts > of the MIPS instruction set are things that our compilers currently > generate; SoC (oh, and my day job) ramped up before i could find the > list of missing instructions. any idea? > > getting quotes or delivery in the US seemed tricky, too. so, here's a silghtly controversial (maybe) suggestion. Maybe my memory is wrong, but i believe the vx32 kernel is gcc-compiled. There is gcc for this CPU. It might be easier to start from the vx32 kernel and gcc to target this machine, rather than do a 64-bit MIPS port of the plan 9 C compiler. Or not: a few of the folks on this list could probably retarget in very short order (I'm not one of the,however). ron
Re: [9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
i was looking at this a week or two ago, trying to find an ARM or MIPS laptop to play with. my first question was whether the "missing" parts of the MIPS instruction set are things that our compilers currently generate; SoC (oh, and my day job) ramped up before i could find the list of missing instructions. any idea? getting quotes or delivery in the US seemed tricky, too.
[9fans] I can not remember if I sent this or not: MIPS-64 (sort of) notebook
http://www.lemote.com/english/yeeloong.html It's an interesting site for a number of reasons ... ron
