Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship
At 09:41 PM 10/15/2000 EDT, you wrote: http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html. It appears on the abc homepage under abc collections as "Favourite English dance tunes from the Lewes sessions, Sussex". I'd like this to be accessible to other people's software. That being the case, Brian, then the first thing I'd do is put those abcs out on the site in plain text format, rather than, or at least in addition to the zipped files. Every site I've seen listed on the ABC index on Chris Walshaw's site has the notation out in plain text, and there are some good reasons for doing it that way. If you made your tunes available in plain text, they'd be easily searchable by the same means that everyone else's are. Second, it would give visitors the option of downloading the specific tunes they want, rather than an entire file. Just as an aside, there is another perspective on the "democracy" question that you've been steadfastly ignoring, which I feel needs to be pointed out by someone who isn't one of the developers: these folks who work on these programs generously *donate* their time to it. They are volunteers, they put in whatever time they can, when they can, and should be applauded for that, not subjected to ridicule, abuse and per- sonal attacks. If you are running into resistance, perhaps you should consider that in many of your posts, your tone has been, er, somewhat less than respectful. Wendy To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Key signature accidentals
On Sun 15 Oct 2000 at 11:49AM +0100, Phil Taylor wrote: There is some scope for disagreement here. John Chambers wants global accidentals to be octave-specific unlike normal accidentals, so you can have both =C and ^c. That seems useful to me. This may be useful, but it also introduces ambiguity. Does K:^f mean sharpen the f in every octave or sharpen the f in just one octave ? I usually make the assumption that an accidental in the key signature applies to every octave, which rules out notation such as K:^f =F James Allwright To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] K: and k: - proposal for resolution
John Chamber says - You can follow the standard to the letter, yes, but your code will work better with existing ABC if it can parse the common violations that people post to lists. At the risk of enhancing my reputation for negativity, I have to say that I think this policy has drawbacks. Being slack about the standard can store up problems for future development. For instance, B flat should be properly coded as K:Bb according to the standard but some packages allow K:B_ and possibly even K:_B and K:bB. These have obvious implications for your K:[tonic]/[mode]/[accidentals] proposal. Before anybody else gets in, this not an argument against that proposal; it is an argument for paying proper respect to the standard. Bryan Creer To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] O'Neill's
On Mon, 9 Oct 2000 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: David Barnert says - I continue to feel that the K: field should describe the number of sharps or flats without naming a tonic and/or a mode. Thanks David. I held back in the hope that someone else would say this. Selection of mode can be ambiguous or outside the experience of some people. When the tonic/mode system is the ONLY choice of K: command there are bound to be problems. Bryan To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Dr. Guido Gonzato ggonza at tin.it - Linux System Administrator My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc "It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young." -- Konrad Lorenz To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] I finally uploaded jaabc2ps
On Sun, 15 Oct 2000, John Henckel wrote: John Atchley!!! THANK YOU!!! THANK YOU from me, too! It was about time a very complete abc2ps program came about! I have downloaded and tried your version of abcm2ps at once, and found out that: - it needs tweaks in order to compile under Linux and Djgpp - those tweaks are easy to implement - done - the !breath! decoration is badly positioned; the "comma" should have the same position as, say, !hold! There are many compilation warnings to fix, too. Would you like me to rearrange the source/Makefile a bit? It would probably break VC, but it would make the thing compilable with free compilers and probably on the Mac, too. Thank you again! Guido =8-) -- Dr. Guido Gonzato ggonza at tin.it - Linux System Administrator My public PGP key is at http://ibogeo.df.unibo.it/guido/PGP.asc "It is a good morning exercise for a research scientist to discard a pet hypothesis every day before breakfast. It keeps him young." -- Konrad Lorenz To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Modes, zipped files etc.
Wendy Galovich says - That being the case, Brian, then the first thing I'd do is put those abcs out on the site in plain text format, rather than, or at least in addition to the zipped files. Every site I've seen listed on the ABC index on Chris Walshaw's site has the notation out in plain text, and there are some good reasons for doing it that way. If you made your tunes available in plain text, they'd be easily searchable by the same means that everyone else's are. Second, it would give visitors the option of downloading the specific tunes they want, rather than an entire file. You are absolutely right. I am working on this at the moment along with a bit of editorial work to remove a few errors and bring the tunes more into line with what actually gets played around here. I am afraid that, because the abc files are generated by software from Noteworthy files, they contain no mode information and use the major tonic as shorthand for a sharps/flats key signature. I'd rather not have to do that but I am not offered a choice. Excuse the delay, but those in the UK will know that Lewes is having a little local difficulty at the moment. these folks who work on these programs generously *donate* their time to it. I am sorry that you think I have been ignoring that, so I will make my view more explicit. I do not think that the fact that some developers are volunteers entitles them to dictate to users what they can or cannot have in abc. Nobody is forcing them to do the work so presumably they feel it has its own rewards even if they are not monetary. I am sure they get great satisfaction from exercising their creativity, serving the community, having an ego trip or whatever. (At least two of those reasons apply to me.) In fact one of the most vociferous arguers does charge for his software. If you are running into resistance, perhaps you should consider that in many of your posts, your tone has been, er, somewhat less than respectful. I have always done my best to present a consistent, reasoned argument backed up by evidence. Off list people have thanked me for that. Given the response I get, you can understand their reluctance to speak out on list. On one or two occasions I have been goaded into saying things I might regret but when it comes to "ridicule, abuse and personal attacks" I am an amateur compared with some of the members of this list. Phil Taylor once referred to being in "Bryan bashing mode". I think I've been on the receiving end of a lot more than I've given out. If I have gone on at rather tedious length at times it is to try hack through what seems to be a grim determination to misunderstand what I am saying. Even you recently implied that I wanted to get rid of the tonic /mode system, which I have never said, and that I wanted to restrict choice when I want to extend it. It is the "We like it the way it is" school who want to restrict choice and yet you don't criticise them for it. Wearily (and a little damp around the feet) Bryan To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] Modes, democracy and benevolent(?) dictatorship
... http://members.aol.com/LewesArmsFolk/Lewesfav.html. ... Bryan Lewes. I do hope that you have avoided or survived the floods without damage. Laurie To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
RE: [abcusers] I finally uploaded jaabc2ps
On Sunday, October 15, 2000 1:29 PM, Frank Nordberg
[SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote:
I am very interested. Is it possible to get this a bit more standardized
I mean things like:
"_" - Move the text down some
could mean anything. To BarFly it means "place the text below the
staff", while jaabc2ps apparently interprets it as "move the text a
little closer to the staff".
"Move the text down some" applies when this is NOT the first character of
the text. The first text characters are implemented exactly as described
in the draft (1.7.3) standard. I thought I was pretty clear on that but I
guess not. Here's an example:
"^_Text" would place the text above the staff but a little lower than the
default location (how much is up to the software, in jaabc2ps it's
controlled by a *.fmt (or %%) parameter.
"_^Text" would place the text below the staff but a little higher and to
the left of the "normal" location.
"^^Text" would place the text to the left of the notehead and a "couple of
bits" higher than "normal."
And so on. Obviously, if you use this feature in your abc then software
which doesn't recognize the extra formatting characters is going to print
some extra characters with the text ("_Text," "^Text," and "^^Text" in the
above examples). That's preferable to "breaking" software that doesn't
recognize the additional formatting characters. Also, any midi player
software that uses the 1.7.3-described leading characters to distinguish
simple text from chords will ignore all of this just as it should.
John Atchley
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RE: [abcusers] I finally uploaded jaabc2ps
On Monday, October 16, 2000 3:52 AM, Guido Gonzato [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] wrote: THANK YOU from me, too! It was about time a very complete abc2ps program came about! Well, I wouldn't call it complete...;-) I have downloaded and tried your version of abcm2ps at once, and found out that: - it needs tweaks in order to compile under Linux and Djgpp - those tweaks are easy to implement - done Please let me know what those tweaks are -- if they don't "break" the VC++ compile I'll incorporate them. - the !breath! decoration is badly positioned; the "comma" should have the same position as, say, !hold! The position of the breath mark is controlled by the parameter "BreathsClose" in the *.fmt file (or the %%BreathsClose yes|no command in the source). The default value is "yes" which places the breath marks close to the note stem -- I chose that default because it matched the only handy example that I had of breath marks in commercially printed music when I was implementing this. I parametized the placement because I knew I'd seen them printed above the staff in some cases. If you set BreathsClose to "no" the "comma" will be printed above the staff. There is a similar parameter "RollsClose" for rolls. There are many compilation warnings to fix, too. Would you like me to rearrange the source/Makefile a bit? It would probably break VC, but it would make the thing compilable with free compilers and probably on the Mac, too. I kind of expected this. I had to make a lot of changes to the original to get clean compilation under VC++. Altering the makefile won't bugger up VC++ because the VC++ project doesn't use the makefile -- that file is the original that came with abcm2ps. Feel free to alter the source (I made it available so people could do with it as they see fit). Keep in mind though that each time I release a new version of the software the "tweaking" would have to be done again. If you let me know what kind of warnings you're getting I'll see if I can roll those into the source without buggering up VC++. You can just redirect the compiler log to a text file and mail it to me if you would like. I keep telling myself I need to set up this machine to dual-boot Linux but it's hard to justify the time when everything I do for work is on the Windoze platform now. I much prefer unix but it's been five years since I've worked where I could actually use it. It's getting to the point that I'm beginning to (shudder) actually like VB for a few things. I'm going to have to get out of the CBT business and start developing missile and avionics software again before I become a microsuck vegetable! ;-) John Atchley To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[abcusers] Lewes's little local difficulty
For those living outside the UK, Lewes and several other towns in south-east England have had severe flooding over the last few days. I posted this to uk.music.folk to mark the occasion - Marjorie Clarke (nearby but not flooded) said she'd pass it on to someone at the Lewes folk club, dunno if it got there... Printed in 1667; by "L.W.", probably Lawrence White. My source: Roxburghe Ballads v.VII p.689. X:1 T:Aim not too high T:Fortune My Foe S:Simpson, The British Broadside Ballad and its Music M:C| L:1/4 K:G Dorian G2 GA|B2 A2 |GdcB|A4:|\ d2 dd|d2 d2 |dfed|c4 |\ c2 fe|d3 c/B/|AGBA|G4|] TITLE A true Relation of the Great Floods, that happened in many parts of England in December and January last, to the undoing of Many: the drownding of cattell and driving down of bridges and houses, the drownding of people, and washing up corn by the roots, which was the means of Rising the prices of corn in and about the City of London; with a warning for all people to amend their lives lest a worse thing befalls us. /TITLE The Tune is, Aim not to high. Oh England, England! 'tis high time to repent, Thy drunkenness and whordom now lament, The Lord his judgments dayly on us pore, Yet dayly into sin we run the more. Thy swearing and prophaning the Lord's name, At last it will come Home unto thy shame, The Lord is Angry now we plainly see, Which is the cause of all our misery. On Sabbath days it is usual now to see Taverns and Ale-houses filled to be, When as the Churches empty are we know; Man still delights to work his overthrow. Thou that dost waste thy means upon thy pride, On paint and patches with false hair beside, And can't afford a penny for the Poor, The Lord has judgments still for thee in store. Thousands of sheep within the Fenns were lost, Great Waters over banks a-loft were tost; Hay-Cocks the waters likewise did suck in: Both beast and fowl do suffer for man's sin. Thou covetous man, which makes thy gold thy God, 'Tis time for you to dread God's heavey rod; Forbare to gripe the widdow and fatherless! Have mercy to the poor in their distress. For God, his judgments still on us do pore, If we repent his mercy lyes in store; The heavens has wept sufficient for man's sin: Now to repent 'tis high time to begin. Those Floods which here has bin in England round, Great losses many hundreds ha's found; No cattel in the Marches then could stay, But straight the waters made of them a prey. Great mills that work for to keep man alive, Those waters did against them so much strive, They were washt down with corn and all together: It were for man's sin that God did send such weather. Great bridges, that were built with stone and wood, Were broken down by this same raging flood; Houses were overthrown, the more's the pitty, Unto the loss of many town and city. Corn by the Roots were washed out of ground, As by Experience poor people has found: which rais'd the prices of bread corn I tell ye, The poor does suffer many hungry belly. O Lord, look down in mercy on us all, And give us grace upon thy name to call; Fullness of bread to wantonness we turn, And yet for sin we do not seem to mourn. In many places people they were drown'd, Infants in cradles on the shore was found; Those Inundations have thousands annoyed, Both men and beast by it has been destroy'd. But now 'tis forgot as I may say, We take delight to sin both night and day, For all such heavey Judgments God does send Our lives we do not strive for to amend. 'Tis not long so, as we may understand, Since God did lay on us his heavy hand, Of Pestilence, which made us all to weep, To see some people drop down dead in street. The fire also raged very sore; It turned many thousands out of dore; Women of child-bed in the feilds did lye, Me thinks I hear still many dolfull cry. Cruell and bloody wars has been also, Thousands has lost their lives against their foe, And now a gain these waters mounting high, May cause many with hunger for to dye. Jerusalem, we read, did suffer much, Because to serve the Lord many did grutch; A famine came and made all things so dear, That Rats and Mice was held as dainty fare. And more than that, they did for want of meat Both roast and boyl their children to eat; Poor little babies they did lye at stake, And suffer torments for their parents' sake. So to conclude let us our lives amend, Then God his blessing speedily will send, To keep this song in mind do not deny, And all ways think that one day thou must dye. [Remember to cite that title *in full*.] === http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ === To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
