Re: [abcusers] RE: ABC transcrivers ID

2001-09-02 Thread Richard Robinson

On Sun, 2 Sep 2001, [iso-8859-1] Forgeot Eric wrote:

> >I remember fantasising, a couple of years ago, about a usenet-style
> >network of intercommunicating, self-updating abc tune-servers.
> 
> To avoid the necessity of having a "grand guru" or an Abc office
> center authorizing personnal identification number, I propose we
> could think of a logical code deriving from our country, area, and
> /or town etc. For the countries we could use a number, like those
> used in Isbn book code, but it's not really speaking, so we could
> use the internet code or the classification used in genealogy. 
> 
> for the country we have :
> http://www.geneanet.com/countrycode.php3?lang=fr (links to
> regional code for some countries)
> 
> and for regions in France :
> http://www.geneanet.com/genealogie/fr/countrycode/country/FRA
> 
> In canada and Usa :
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3699/gen_form.html
> 
> So I come from France, Champagne (Aube). My code could begin like
> that :
> 
> FRA.CHA.10
> 
> I may also add the first letters of my town, or the postal code :
> Fra.Cha.10.Tro
> The problem is for huge town, with several abcusers. Why not
> adding the first letters of the name ? Fra.Cha.10.Tro.For
> But it's quite a long code.

Yes, it is. I like the anology with Usenet message-ids - a machine-name is
already unique across the internet, so why not use that ? And the only
other thing that's needed is a unique number (or other ID) for each tune
on that machine.

> Personally I don't think it's a good idea to use this code in the
> X: field, because some programs get upset with this (for example a
>  %text is removed after saving tune if it is on the X: line in
> AbcMus).

I agree. Since already exists, inventing new uses for it is likely to
create conflict with existing software ...

>   The Z: field is for the transcriver, so we ought to use
> it. In an other hand, increasing the X:number to a 8 number code
> could be a good idea, for identifing volumes, music style etc. in
> an abc collection. 

... and likewise with Z: - a "magic word" uniquely identifying a tune is
not the same thing as the name of the person who transcribed that tune.
And again likewise, inventing new meanings for an X: number is fine for
whoever invents (and implements) them, but strange things might happen
when it meets other peoples' software.


I dunno. Personally, since I need such a numbering scheme, I'm using a
%%ID: line, on the grounds that it won't conflict with any
accepted usages; and when I get that sorted out and it reaches my
web-collection I'll use another such '%%' line for the 'base' collection,
or maybe (probably) to form a URL. Such a scheme will never be more than
one person's particular addition unless the writers of the software in use
choose to incorporate it. Even then there's always "the John Chambers
Case" - people who read ABC directly and can't even be bothered to include
an X: line :- but we can't do anything about that :)

-- 
Richard Robinson
"The whole plan hinged upon the natural curiosity of potatoes" - S. Lem


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[abcusers] RE: ABC transcrivers ID

2001-09-02 Thread Forgeot Eric

>I remember fantasising, a couple of years ago, about a usenet-style
>network of intercommunicating, self-updating abc tune-servers.

To avoid the necessity of having a "grand guru" or an Abc office
center authorizing personnal identification number, I propose we
could think of a logical code deriving from our country, area, and
/or town etc. For the countries we could use a number, like those
used in Isbn book code, but it's not really speaking, so we could
use the internet code or the classification used in genealogy. 

for the country we have :
http://www.geneanet.com/countrycode.php3?lang=fr (links to
regional code for some countries)

and for regions in France :
http://www.geneanet.com/genealogie/fr/countrycode/country/FRA

In canada and Usa :
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Meadows/3699/gen_form.html

So I come from France, Champagne (Aube). My code could begin like
that :

FRA.CHA.10

I may also add the first letters of my town, or the postal code :
Fra.Cha.10.Tro
The problem is for huge town, with several abcusers. Why not
adding the first letters of the name ? Fra.Cha.10.Tro.For
But it's quite a long code.

Personally I don't think it's a good idea to use this code in the
X: field, because some programs get upset with this (for example a
 %text is removed after saving tune if it is on the X: line in
AbcMus). The Z: field is for the transcriver, so we ought to use
it. In an other hand, increasing the X:number to a 8 number code
could be a good idea, for identifing volumes, music style etc. in
an abc collection. 


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[abcusers] Purpose of standards

2001-09-02 Thread Bryancreer
Under "German H as an alternative to B", John Chambers said -

>Actually, our inability to force musicians to use standard  notations
>is one of the things that makes such notation possible. If there were
>a way to enforce a standard, we'd still be stuck  with  the  Medieval
>4-line staff. There would be no such things as clefs, key signatures,
>bar lines, or chords.

Nonsense!  We're not talking about Commandments carved in stone, never to be 
broken.  A standard is just a statement of what is agreed on.  It can be 
modified, adapted and developed.  It forms a basic for future development, 
not a barrier to it.

Use of words like "force" is ridiculous.  You only need to force people to do 
things they don't want to do.  Think in terms of enabling people to do what 
they do want to do, which, in the case of abc, is to exchange musical 
information in a coherent way.  If the standard gives people what they want, 
you won't need to enforce it.

If John is fundamentally opposed to the concept of a standard, you have to 
ask why he joined the standards committee in the first place.  The same 
question could be asked of some of the other members.

Perhaps it is the word "standard" that is the problem.  Maybe something like 
"protocol" would be better.

Bryan Creer