[abcusers] re re : slurs and ties
> It is just simply
>incorrect to not make the normal distinction between ties and
slurs in any
>form of musical notation (which does include ABC), and, worst of
all,
>ultimately confusing to users if improper usage is allowed. Ties
and slurs
>are not the same thing, nor are they intended to be, nor were
they ever
>intended to be so far as I know. To not make the correct
distinction is
>just simply unnecessary, in my opinion, and will continue to
promote
>sloppy, or lazy, or ignorant, or individualistic, or
non-standard, or what
>ever you want to call it, practices in writing ABC.
we can draw a parallel with the > : in fact we don't need this
symbol, instead of A > A there is the A3/2 A/ notation but it's
simplier to use.
I don't think people, like me or John Chamber, who want in this
case a more tolerant standard wish to confuse pple with the
notions of slurs and ties. For example B and G *can't*
(physically, in acoustic) be tied, can they ? So we could say this
is just a convention to notate slur *both* with - and (). That
doesn't mean slurs becomes ties.
And a last remark : in french we only use one word for the two :
it is called "liaison", we would not confuse the two. But I've
just read in a musical theory that there was a difference of
interpretation for slurs according as the slur concerns only two
notes, or several notes : it is said for two slured notes which
are at a different length, the 1st one should be emphasized, i.e.
: (c2B) z/ d/ (d2c) z/e/ | (e2d) /.../
so it's not so illogical to use - to write a slur/tie ("liaison")
between 2 notes (whatever they are and whatever that particular
slur/tie means) and brackets for slur between several notes (more
than 2 at least). For ties between more than 2 notes like
A3-A2-|A2 I don't find it really logical to allow (A3 A2 |A2), but
why not ?
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Re: [abcusers] re re : slurs and ties
Forgeot=20Eric?= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: | > It is just simply | >incorrect to not make the normal distinction between ties and | slurs in any | >form of musical notation (which does include ABC), and, worst of | all, | >ultimately confusing to users if improper usage is allowed. ... | I don't think people, like me or John Chamber, who want in this | case a more tolerant standard wish to confuse pple with the | notions of slurs and ties. In fact, we can't confuse people; they are already confused. The simple fact is that conventional printed music notation doesn't make a real distinction. True, some publishers claim to draw those arcs slightly differently. But different publishers use different rules. And simple examination of a stack of published music will quickly convince you that most of them have such poor quality control that any claimed differences are wiped out in the printing process. All you can really say with accuracy is that printed music uses arcs that connect groups of two or more notes, and these arcs mean different things in different circumstances. Any differences in how they are drawn are mostly accidental artifacts of the printing process, and are best ignored unless you *know* that a particular edition is using those differences consistently. | And a last remark : in french we only use one word for the two : | it is called "liaison", we would not confuse the two. It's even worse than that, of course. Those arcs are used for at least three things in conventional music. In English, we call them ties, slurs and phrases. I haven't yet read any complaints about people using () in abc to indicate such things as bowing/breathing, but I suppose I will eventually. Printed music notates this exactly the same way as it does phrasing. The only difference is the length of the group of notes, so it always requires musical judgement to distinguish slurs from phrases. | ... For ties between more than 2 notes like | A3-A2-|A2 I don't find it really logical to allow (A3 A2 |A2), but | why not ? I've seen this, but it's rare. I think most printers and publishers have at least managed to get this one right. ;-) In any case, if we want musicians to get such things right in abc, we really should have distinct ways of representing ALL of the uses of arcs in printed music. Conflating slurs with phrases, while distinguishing ties, is guaranteed to just add to user confusion. Is there a fourth use of these arcs that I haven't listed? (Hey. Laura; does LilyPond distinguish all these? Just curious.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] re re : slurs and ties
> "John" == John Chambers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> writes: John> (Hey. Laura; does LilyPond distinguish all these? Just curious.) Yes: Tie: a ~ a slur: a () a phrasing slur: a \(\) a The documentation says: Typographically, the phrasing slur behaves almost exactly like a normal slur. The grob associated with it is PhrasingSlur , in Voice context. So the main difference between a slur and a phrasing slur is that there is a different "grob", so that you can make all phrasing slurs dotted or invisible while leaving regular slurs alone, or vice versa. And: A tie connects two adjacent note heads of the same pitch. When used with chords, it connects all the note heads whose pitches match. Ties are indicated using the tilde symbol `~'. If you try to tie together chords which have no common pitches then no ties will be created. -- Laura (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] , http://www.laymusic.org/ ) (617) 661-8097 fax: (801) 365-6574 233 Broadway, Cambridge, MA 02139 (If I haven't invited you to my party on June 2, I'm sure it's an oversight.) To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [abcusers] re re : slurs and ties
At 12:36 PM 5/30/02, John Chambers wrote: Snip... >In fact, we can't confuse people; they are already confused. With all respect, it serves no one to contribute to this confusion by treating things the same that are in all respects different, that is, different in the 'language of music'. More snipping... >All you can really say with accuracy is that printed music uses arcs >that connect groups of two or more notes, and these arcs mean >different things in different circumstances. This is indeed the real world, and the central issue of my original comments. Still more sniping... >In any case, if we want musicians to get such things right in abc, we >really should have distinct ways of representing ALL of the uses of >arcs in printed music. Now this sounds like a plan... (I hope). :-) You guys take care and keep up the very good work, Don Huntsville, AL To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
