Re: [AI] Fwd: FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to disabled

2017-11-13 Thread pardeep lamba 
having two witnesses breach of customer's privacy and banks are
dedicated to privacy of customer as per law?

On 11/13/17, Kotian, H P <hpkot...@rbi.org.in> wrote:
> Hi
>
> Actually, it is the change of technology which is the problem. In the old
> days, there was branch banking and the folks knew us and our signatures. Now
> a days CBS and the persons passing the cheques are disconnected with the
> customers. Earlier it was the instrument where they would verify the
> signature, now it is the image of the cheque. Visually it is very difficult
> to distinguish the tumb impression on the monitor.
>
> , we can also use technology like aATM, UPI etc.
>
> I am not being a spokesman of the Banks, I am only voicing their concerns
> which we also need to appreciate. We should come to some meeting point which
> is somewhat practical and reasonable.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf
> Of Satguru Rathi
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:28 PM
> To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
> Subject: [AI] Fwd: FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to
> disabled
>
> Hi sir,
>
>
> Wanted to post this on list but... Well, now I am writing on the list to
> have a discussion on it.
>
>
> Well, I am not denying the fact that one should learn to sign but can it
> be forced upon someone when there is technology available to
> authenticate thumb impression? Why don't the bank employ that technology
> instead of forcing someone to beg people to become their witness just to
> withdraw money? Think of  a scenario where a person is holding an
> account with a bank for 5-6 years and all these years he has been doing
> the banking with ease and suddenly he is asked to produce witnesses to
> withdraw his own money despite the fact that all the staff has seen him
> all these years while transacting!
>
>
> All those years I have studied Braille, now shall we argue to learn
> print right from the beginning? I don't find it easy to learn sign since
> I have no exposure to print, so just because I can't sign, and the bank
> don't want to deploy the technology which can remove this barrier, I
> shall need to beg people to become my witnesses!
>
>
> I don't know where are we heading.
>
>
>
> With best regards,
>
> Satguru
> ___,__.___
> "Life's battle do not always go, to the stronger or faster man. But sooner
> or later the one who wins, is the one who thinks he can."
>
> Satguru Rathi
> +91-9871489945
> satgurura...@gmail.com
>
>
>
>  Forwarded Message 
> Subject:  FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to
> disabled
> Date: Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:54:48 +
> From: Kotian, H P <hpkot...@rbi.org.in>
> To:   Satguru Rathi <tarannumra...@gmail.com>,
> accessindia@accessindia.org.in <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>
>
>
>
> Hi
>
> I suppose, the issue is using thumb impression and not signature as this
> would not apply in this case.
> Witness, can be anyone and not someone you bring alone. It can also be a
> staff and there is no repercussion to the witness. At any time there are
> plenty of customers who can be requested for it.
>
>
> I don't think this should be a big problem. It makes sense to learn to sign.
> I would really see more an irritant than a problem really. Insistence of 2
> witness is not really unreasonable as 1 can be managed to a fraudulent
> transaction compared to two.
>
> Harish.
>
> -Original Message-
> From: Satguru Rathi [mailto:tarannumra...@gmail.com]
> Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 12:33 PM
> To: Kotian, H P <hpkot...@rbi.org.in>
> Subject: Re: [AI] FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to
> disabled
>
> Dear Harish sir and other learned members,
>
>
> As per the point no. 2 (E), Additional Facilities to visually impaired
> customers Banks are advised that the facilities provided to
> sick/old/incapacitated persons vide Paragraph 9 of our Master Circular
> DBR.No.Leg.BC.21/09.07.006/2015-16 dated July 1, 2015 on Customer Service in
> Banks (regarding operations of accounts through identification of thumb/toe
> impression/mark by two independent witnesses and authorising a person who
> would withdraw the amount on behalf of such
> customers) shall also be extended to the visually impaired customers.
>
> Now, this is leading to denial of withdrawl for many blind people who do not
> have two people as witnesses. PNB, for instance, has come up with their own
> circular where a visually impaired person is required to produce two
> witnesses to withdraw money. A person

Re: [AI] Fwd: FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to disabled

2017-11-13 Thread Kotian, H P 
Hi

Actually, it is the change of technology which is the problem. In the old days, 
there was branch banking and the folks knew us and our signatures. Now a days 
CBS and the persons passing the cheques are disconnected with the customers. 
Earlier it was the instrument where they would verify the signature, now it is 
the image of the cheque. Visually it is very difficult to distinguish the tumb 
impression on the monitor.

, we can also use technology like aATM, UPI etc. 

I am not being a spokesman of the Banks, I am only voicing their concerns which 
we also need to appreciate. We should come to some meeting point which is 
somewhat practical and reasonable.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: AccessIndia [mailto:accessindia-boun...@accessindia.org.in] On Behalf Of 
Satguru Rathi
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 4:28 PM
To: accessindia@accessindia.org.in
Subject: [AI] Fwd: FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to 
disabled

Hi sir,


Wanted to post this on list but... Well, now I am writing on the list to have a 
discussion on it.


Well, I am not denying the fact that one should learn to sign but can it 
be forced upon someone when there is technology available to 
authenticate thumb impression? Why don't the bank employ that technology 
instead of forcing someone to beg people to become their witness just to 
withdraw money? Think of  a scenario where a person is holding an 
account with a bank for 5-6 years and all these years he has been doing 
the banking with ease and suddenly he is asked to produce witnesses to 
withdraw his own money despite the fact that all the staff has seen him 
all these years while transacting!


All those years I have studied Braille, now shall we argue to learn 
print right from the beginning? I don't find it easy to learn sign since 
I have no exposure to print, so just because I can't sign, and the bank 
don't want to deploy the technology which can remove this barrier, I 
shall need to beg people to become my witnesses!


I don't know where are we heading.



With best regards,

Satguru
___,__.___
"Life's battle do not always go, to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or 
later the one who wins, is the one who thinks he can."

Satguru Rathi
+91-9871489945
satgurura...@gmail.com



 Forwarded Message 
Subject:FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to 
disabled
Date:   Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:54:48 +
From:   Kotian, H P <hpkot...@rbi.org.in>
To: Satguru Rathi <tarannumra...@gmail.com>, 
accessindia@accessindia.org.in <accessindia@accessindia.org.in>



Hi

I suppose, the issue is using thumb impression and not signature as this would 
not apply in this case.
Witness, can be anyone and not someone you bring alone. It can also be a staff 
and there is no repercussion to the witness. At any time there are plenty of 
customers who can be requested for it.


I don't think this should be a big problem. It makes sense to learn to sign. I 
would really see more an irritant than a problem really. Insistence of 2 
witness is not really unreasonable as 1 can be managed to a fraudulent 
transaction compared to two.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: Satguru Rathi [mailto:tarannumra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 12:33 PM
To: Kotian, H P <hpkot...@rbi.org.in>
Subject: Re: [AI] FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to 
disabled

Dear Harish sir and other learned members,


As per the point no. 2 (E), Additional Facilities to visually impaired 
customers Banks are advised that the facilities provided to 
sick/old/incapacitated persons vide Paragraph 9 of our Master Circular
DBR.No.Leg.BC.21/09.07.006/2015-16 dated July 1, 2015 on Customer Service in 
Banks (regarding operations of accounts through identification of thumb/toe 
impression/mark by two independent witnesses and authorising a person who would 
withdraw the amount on behalf of such
customers) shall also be extended to the visually impaired customers.

Now, this is leading to denial of withdrawl for many blind people who do not 
have two people as witnesses. PNB, for instance, has come up with their own 
circular where a visually impaired person is required to produce two witnesses 
to withdraw money. A person in Haryana was actually denied from withdrawing the 
money as he didn't have any witness to sign.


What do you suggest?


With best regards,
Satguru
___,__.___
"Life's battle do not always go, to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or 
later the one who wins, is the one who thinks he can."

Satguru Rathi
+91-9871489945
satgurura...@gmail.com

On 11/10/2017 9:31 AM, Kotian, H P wrote:
>
> All
> For information.
> Harish Kotian
>
>
> http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/notification/PDFs/NOTI89F9DD47A9F3FA44
> 0E94C254135F95E728.PDF NOTI89F9DD47A9F3FA440E94C254135F95E728.pdf
> RBI/2017-18/89
> DBR.No.Leg.BC.96/09.07.005/2017-18 Nov

[AI] Fwd: FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to disabled

2017-11-13 Thread Satguru Rathi 

Hi sir,


Wanted to post this on list but... Well, now I am writing on the list to 
have a discussion on it.



Well, I am not denying the fact that one should learn to sign but can it 
be forced upon someone when there is technology available to 
authenticate thumb impression? Why don't the bank employ that technology 
instead of forcing someone to beg people to become their witness just to 
withdraw money? Think of  a scenario where a person is holding an 
account with a bank for 5-6 years and all these years he has been doing 
the banking with ease and suddenly he is asked to produce witnesses to 
withdraw his own money despite the fact that all the staff has seen him 
all these years while transacting!



All those years I have studied Braille, now shall we argue to learn 
print right from the beginning? I don't find it easy to learn sign since 
I have no exposure to print, so just because I can't sign, and the bank 
don't want to deploy the technology which can remove this barrier, I 
shall need to beg people to become my witnesses!



I don't know where are we heading.



With best regards,

Satguru
___,__.___
"Life's battle do not always go, to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or later 
the one who wins, is the one who thinks he can."

Satguru Rathi
+91-9871489945
satgurura...@gmail.com



 Forwarded Message 
Subject: 	FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to 
disabled

Date:   Mon, 13 Nov 2017 07:54:48 +
From:   Kotian, H P 
To: 	Satguru Rathi , 
accessindia@accessindia.org.in 




Hi

I suppose, the issue is using thumb impression and not signature as this would 
not apply in this case.
Witness, can be anyone and not someone you bring alone. It can also be a staff 
and there is no repercussion to the witness. At any time there are plenty of 
customers who can be requested for it.


I don't think this should be a big problem. It makes sense to learn to sign. I 
would really see more an irritant than a problem really. Insistence of 2 
witness is not really unreasonable as 1 can be managed to a fraudulent 
transaction compared to two.

Harish.

-Original Message-
From: Satguru Rathi [mailto:tarannumra...@gmail.com]
Sent: Monday, November 13, 2017 12:33 PM
To: Kotian, H P 
Subject: Re: [AI] FW: Latest notification on additional banking services to 
disabled

Dear Harish sir and other learned members,


As per the point no. 2 (E), Additional Facilities to visually impaired 
customers Banks are advised that the facilities provided to 
sick/old/incapacitated persons vide Paragraph 9 of our Master Circular
DBR.No.Leg.BC.21/09.07.006/2015-16 dated July 1, 2015 on Customer Service in 
Banks (regarding operations of accounts through identification of thumb/toe 
impression/mark by two independent witnesses and authorising a person who would 
withdraw the amount on behalf of such
customers) shall also be extended to the visually impaired customers.

Now, this is leading to denial of withdrawl for many blind people who do not 
have two people as witnesses. PNB, for instance, has come up with their own 
circular where a visually impaired person is required to produce two witnesses 
to withdraw money. A person in Haryana was actually denied from withdrawing the 
money as he didn't have any witness to sign.


What do you suggest?


With best regards,
Satguru
___,__.___
"Life's battle do not always go, to the stronger or faster man. But sooner or later 
the one who wins, is the one who thinks he can."

Satguru Rathi
+91-9871489945
satgurura...@gmail.com

On 11/10/2017 9:31 AM, Kotian, H P wrote:


All
For information.
Harish Kotian


http://rbidocs.rbi.org.in/rdocs/notification/PDFs/NOTI89F9DD47A9F3FA44
0E94C254135F95E728.PDF NOTI89F9DD47A9F3FA440E94C254135F95E728.pdf
RBI/2017-18/89
DBR.No.Leg.BC.96/09.07.005/2017-18 November 9, 2017 All Scheduled Commercial 
Banks (including RRBs) All Small Finance Banks and Payments Banks Dear Sir/ 
Madam Statement on Developmental and Regulatory Policies - October 4, 2017- 
Banking Facility for Senior Citizens and Differently abled Persons Please refer 
to Paragraph 8 of Statement on Developmental and Regulatory Policies, released 
by Reserve Bank of India on October 4, 2017 as part of Fourth Bi-monthly 
Monetary Policy Statement 2017-18, a copy of which is enclosed. It has been 
observed that there are occasions when banks discourage or turn away senior 
citizens and differently abled persons from availing banking facilities in 
branches. Notwithstanding the need to push digital transactions and use of 
ATMs, it is imperative to be sensitive to the requirements of senior citizens 
and differently abled persons.
2. In view of the above, banks are required to put in place appropriate 
mechanism with the following specific provisions for meeting the needs of such 
customers so that they are able to avail of the bank's services